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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 08:50 AM
Original message
Where are the visionaries?
Edited on Wed Aug-16-06 09:07 AM by Dover
I am so sick and tired of the agendas and platforms both parties are trying to sell. I don't know about you but 'security' is NOT my main issue or concern. In fact, very little on the political front inspires and invigorates every cell of my body and resonates with a resounding YES! Instead every note that is played falls with a muffled thud to the ground. Both parties continue to rearrange the furniture in a room that never changes.

If you were a party or individual attempting to lead this country, what kind of vision would you offer to inspire this nation? What kind of future would you have us build? What do you think would really ignite and inspire a reunification and hope in this country?

I haven't seen ANY visionaries emerge from any political or other camp that resonates with our populace in a way that could truly move us forward together.

Perhaps that is because politicians only see a long war for empire. I honestly don't know WHAT they see, but I feel pretty confident I don't share it with them.
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
1. Visionaries don't make enough money
to be politicians. :(
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 08:51 AM
Response to Original message
2. John Edwards is the closest thing
I've seen in a while - as well as Al Gore......Gore/Edwards 2008!
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Blackhatjack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. Agreed! People need to realize future could be diff w/them at helm...
The future outlined by Edwards is markedly different from that put forth by the PNAC crowd. What it will take is for someone to clearly explain the costs of doing more of the same that the PNAC backed crowd has brought, and show the results of choosing the Edwards/Gore alternative.

The major impediments to getting the message out are entrenched corrupt leadership, secrecy in government(especially in the Executive Branch), and total abdication by the MSM of their role as the Fourth Branch. Of course each of these are maintained by unchecked corporate largess and campaign contributions.
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 08:52 AM
Response to Original message
3. They see numbers
Numbers that tell them they have to capture the so-called "moderates," who as far as I can tell are a bunch of spineless thumb-suckers who care first about their own skins, second about their bank accounts, and last about their fellow citizens.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
4. They've been blinded by the light. n/t
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flordehinojos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. do you mean the load of crap the bushes have thrown at all of us?
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. That and the extra UV rays caused by global warming. n/t
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Beelzebud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
6. What do JFK, Martin Luther King, Ghandi, and RFK have in common?
All were visionaries. All were murdered.
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noonwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #6
17. You can put Lennon in there, too
He was a visionary who was murdered by some lunatic, too.
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
8. I am wondering what kind of future you envision? What's important?
Edited on Wed Aug-16-06 09:14 AM by Dover
What should we build toward? Anyone?
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meganmonkey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. First step, IMHO
Edited on Wed Aug-16-06 09:58 AM by meganmonkey
Is to get our deMOCKracy fixed up enough so that our elections - and thus our representatives and 'leaders' - actually reflect the will of the people. I could go on and on about what my personal vision would be, but that is irrelevent. It is the vision of the people as a whole that should matter, not an individual choice. It isn't like shopping for a good deal at Target, it is about what is best for our whole society.

A huge obstacle is that our politics are deeply based in marketing, manipulation, hyper-individualism, and propaganda. If we can't stop that, we will never have real sincere representation, because the people's choices will either be flawed in themselves, or the people's interpretations of their choices will be flawed.

And the biggest obstacle is that those in power (on all sides) will work against getting the will of the people accurately represented - they will always work to preserve the status quo because it serves their personal interests and the interests of those who keep them in power. So, IMO, by definition, elections will NEVER fix what is wrong with our system.
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. I don't think your personal vision is irrelevent.
I think BlooinBloo is absolutely right. If we are sitting around waiting for leadership from the top, trying to nourish ourselves and make important decisions for our lives based on the limited food the establishment puts on the table, we will not be able to see that the table and the food are not our own and do not nourish us. We are not limited to the room they design, the table or the food they provide. But we forget that, and instead fight over the newest room arrangement.
They work hard to convince us that this is all our own choosing but I certainly don't identify with any of it. It doesn't nourish me.

I think personal vision and individual choices are not separate, but an important part of the whole like an individual cell in the body. We have to trust that we are all connected and that each of us informs and effects the health of the whole. What is best for our whole society will come from each of us separately and together.

As our vision and values shift, they will pressure and shape our future.

My personal vision involves sustainable living. While that's my personal goal and I work toward it in various ways...I also know that it IS important and that I'm not alone. My efforts move mountains because I'm not alone, though it's not always readily perceptible.

Honestly I don't see much inspiration from politicians. Like I said, they just keep rearranging the furniture, but never change the room.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. when people are downtrodden
Edited on Wed Aug-16-06 10:05 AM by marions ghost
it gets a little hard to imagine the future. You start to believe it can only be bad, so you don't project at all. As a society we are in that kind of funk. These are cynical times. Visionaries of any kind are likely to be scoffed at.

Kerry and Edwards may have been the last to try to run as political visionaries for awhile. Liberals got so burned in that...in the end, nobody had anybody's 'back.' Swiftboated, disenfranchised and Diebolded, we were all trampled. Visionaries tend to appeal to liberals ...because liberals see the big picture more easily. But there has to be true solidarity behind the rhetoric. Because we have such a mess on our hands, the political candidates who will be heard now will have to be very practical and demonstrate exactly how their visions will be carried out. People will want to see Results as never before.

However in the realms of the heart and inspiration, we can use spiritual or cultural visionaries anytime. There is a real void there. Cindy Sheehan comes the closest. There are others but it's a hard life with few tangible benefits. Much sacrifice. I think these visionaries need to come from outside the Beltway but they can have real impact on what happens inside.

Interesting question.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
9. Where are the self-motivated individuals?
Who don't require a shephard or a pied piper to lead them to do what's right because they're too stupid/lazy/fearful to do it themselves?

It's from such a stockpile of self-motivated individuals that "visionaries" come - not from a crowd bleating "where are the visionaries???"
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Dover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. So true. Real change will not come from the top.
Politicians work for the establishment and ALWAYS have. The sum total of our individual efforts and vision will create the ground swell of change.

Visionaries and leaders will emerge from different quarters, but that can't happen without individuals cultivating the soil first.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
13. They've been "triangulated" into oblivion.
Honesty is now dependent on "framing".
Campaign contributions trump ethics.
Seen "Being tough" has replaced seeking peace.
Pandering to the "middle" is more important than standing for anything.
Playing it "safe" is now considered "smart" politics.
Being "not as bad" is the new standard for a "successful" politician.
Having "charisma" is more important than having brains.
Being a "leader" is more desirable than being a representative.
"Serving the people" is a platitude for fundraising.
Being a visionary is considered dangerous.



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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. whew
excellent list of why visionaries NEED NOT apply...

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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
15. 1st they'd be labelled as kooks
then all of their past indescretions would be reported and amplified, etc.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 10:28 AM
Response to Original message
19. Paul Wellstone/Bernie Sanders style Progressive Libralism
If the Democrats embraced the tough but ultimately positive politics embodied by people like Wellstone, Sanders, Kucinich and others, it would reinvigotate the poilitical scene -- and make a lot of difference for America and the World.
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
20. They are not honored in their own country.
We need to find better ways to support them. Of course, we need enough people to actually support true visionaries rather than the corporate vision.
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
21. Visionaries get shot here.
There just aren't that many people who are willing to take a bullet for a bunch of other people who aren't standing up either.
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BluePatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
22. I can tell everyone where the visionaries are
Bright young idealists that get stuck in dead end jobs with glassy eyed morons, jobs that slowly drive them insane enough to be medicated, and then the medication makes them quit caring about helping the world at all, and turns them into glassy eyed morons...

*cynical much? Why, yes, I am*
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
23. the wealthy families and corporations that own our political system
do not want change

visionaries don't get elected
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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
24. Musings on the Visionary thing AND a question foro DU:
IMO one is only a true Visionary WHEN the public decides so.

Every person I've EVER met who described him/herself as a Visionary was, in reality,
a compulsive-talking
no follow-through
detail--hell! REALITY-ignorant
egotistical
fantasist
with POOR listening skills.

NEVER TRUST ANYONE WHO LABELS HIMESLF A VISIONARY! Ever.


Whew. aveat/rant over.

Now, who would YOU call a visionary, DU, & why?
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Jacobin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-17-06 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #24
29. LOL...my sentiments exactly
I'll take hard work, brains and competence ANY DAY over someone claiming to be a 'visionary'.....

Which is why someone like Bill Clinton kept us out of a lot more trouble than we are in now....not perfect by any stretch, but, who is perfect anyway?
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elliswyatt Donating Member (66 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-16-06 11:42 AM
Response to Original message
25. the "security" agenda
is just capitalizing on the public's stupidity. we need to realize that while there is a terror threat, we got enough problems going around right now here at home that we created ourselves. I've never had an altercation on a plane in all my travels but i've seen people be raped and assaulted on the streets of houston. crime's a bitch.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-17-06 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
26. We have a visionary: Al Gore
Al Gore is now the most visionary political leader we have had since the 1960s. He is the only major, viable national leader who has articulated a comprehensive critique of the Bush administration's usurpation of the Constitution. He is also visionary on the inevitable transformation of global society as a result of our becoming a post-petroleum society.

Please take a look at his important speech earlier this year and see An Inconvenient Truth.

Dr. Dean is a close second.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-17-06 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
27. US & UK politics has been infected by the "Ideology is dead" meme...
...created by the Neo-Liberals in the 80's, this lead to the rise of triangulation politics and the death of visionary politics.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-17-06 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
28. there's a strategy paper over at American Prospect...
...that you might like to read. It's in four parts. The first part explains why Democrats haven't won landslides despite the fact that the American people side with Democratic issues. Then a strategy is laid out, based on the research showing that the American people will rally around a campaign promising the "common good" ---- here's an excerpt from Part IV.

The five postulates for the politics of definition -- the guideposts, questions, and “lines in the sand,” so to speak, that need to be drawn out in order to craft better politics -- are as follows:

(1) The starting point for all political organizing and campaigns should be: “What are my core beliefs and principles and how do I best explain them to supporters and skeptics alike?”
(2) Every political battle, both proactive and defensive, should represent a basic statement of progressive character and present a clear, concise contrast with conservatives. Do not blur lines.

(3) All issue campaigns and agenda items are not equal. Progressives should focus their efforts on issues that can simultaneously strengthen the base and appeal to centrist voters. Progressives must be willing to make sacrifices and tradeoffs -- in terms of coalition building and budgetary concerns -- to achieve their most important agenda items.

(4) Escalate battles that expose the extremism of the right or splinter their coalition.

(5) Every political action should highlight three essential progressive attributes: a clear stand on the side of those who lack power, wealth or influence; a deep commitment to the common good; and a strong belief in fairness and opportunity for all.


These recommendations are based on harnessing the best aspects of mobilization (primarily the need to speak with conviction, clarity of vision and, deeply held principles, and to fight hard against conservative tactics) with the best aspects of inoculation (recognizing the importance of more independent, centrist voters and the cultural, social, and security issues that drive them) in order to produce a political framework that is decisively progressive in orientation but with broad appeal.

What are progressives’ core beliefs?

Common good progressivism

From our perspective, the basic philosophical argument that should guide our strategic process and inform our politics is clear: progressives seek to secure the common good. Securing the common good means putting the public interest above narrow self-interest and group demands; working to achieve social and economic conditions that benefit everyone; promoting a personal, governmental and corporate ethic of responsibility and service to others; creating a more open and honest governmental structure that relies upon an engaged and participatory citizenry; and doing more to meet our common responsibilities to aid the disadvantaged, protect our natural resources, and provide opportunities rather than burdens for future generations.

After years of conservative dominance defined by rampant individualism, corruption and greed in American life, the public is ready for a higher national purpose and a greater sense of service and duty to something beyond self-interest alone. The common good represents a clear break with the conservative vision of America as an aggregation of individuals pursuing their own needs with little concern for what unites us a people or for the impacts of our actions on the whole of society. It marks the end of a politics that leaves people to rise and fall on their own without considering the consequences of such actions on peoples’ everyday lives. The common good approach recognizes that government is an essential tool for helping people to pursue their dreams while providing a solid safety net for those left behind. A focus on the common good requires citizens and their leaders to pursue policies and programs that benefit everyone, not just a select few with disproportionate access to the levers of power and influence over decision making.

Common-good progressivism has both personal and governmental requirements. People must assume responsibility for their actions, treat others with respect and decency, and serve their families and communities. Businesses need to assume responsibilities beyond securing the bottom line. They need to take into consideration their communities, workers, and surrounding environments as well as their shareholders when making decisions. Government needs to pursue policies that benefit all and require sacrifices from all. Government should not serve as the defender of narrow group or corporate agendas and should instead seek to protect public goods that promote the national interest.

A primary goal of government in this approach is to ensure basic fairness and opportunity: the civil, legal, and economic arrangements necessary to ensure every American has a real shot at his or her dreams. Common-good progressivism does not guarantee that everybody will be the same, think the same, or get the same material benefits in life; it simply means that people should start from a level playing field and have a reasonable chance at achieving success.

Internationally, common-good progressivism focuses on new and revitalized global leadership grounded in the integrated use of military, economic, and diplomatic power; the just use of force; global engagement; new institutions and networks to deal with intractable problems; and global equity. As in past battles against fascism and totalitarianism, common-good progressives today seek to fight global extremism by using a comprehensive national-security strategy that employs all our strengths for strategic and moral advantage. This requires true leadership and global cooperation rather than the dominant “my-way-or-the-highway” mentality of the conservative majority today.

Progressives should not forget that the common good is a powerful theme in the social teachings of many major faith traditions -- Catholicism and mainline Protestantism, in particular, but in moderate evangelical denominations as well. The principle of the common good is drawn upon in these faiths to guide people towards more thoughtful consideration of their own actions in light of others; to compel political leaders and policy-makers to consider the needs of the entire society; and to check unrestrained individualism that frequently erodes community sensibilities and values.

The goal of the common good in both the secular and faith traditions is a more balanced and considerate populace that seeks to provide the social and economic conditions necessary for all people to lead meaningful and dignified lives.

Building on these common-good values, progressives in the 20th century sought to improve conditions for Americans by harnessing the power of the national government to assist the disadvantaged; to regulate and balance a rapidly developing capitalist economy; and to challenge totalitarian forces across the globe who threatened to undermine democracy and freedom. Progressives relied on strong intermediary forces like labor unions and civil-rights groups to press for reforms. The American business community was pressed by progressive reformers to accept economic regulation and intervention as part of the grand bargain that would ensure profits and provide for a solid middle class with a steadily rising standard of living.

A common-good vision today must be properly updated to meet emerging challenges and institutional arrangements. Common-good progressives understand that the private sector in today’s economy is far better positioned than government to ensure strong growth and job creation. The primary role of government should therefore be to provide the legal, regulatory, and financial incentives to stimulate growth and protect workers and citizens from corruption and abuse. At the same time, many of the issues that led early progressives toward stronger government action in the past remain areas of concern for government today in securing the common good: increasing access to quality health care, improving public education, providing a safe and sound retirement for the elderly, dealing with the effects of stagnant middle-class wages, and protecting the environment.

Common-good progressives also recognize that government alone will not solve the nation’s problems. Strong moral values, personal responsibility, and entrepreneurship are critical assets that help individuals and local communities address many of the societal problems government should not or cannot get involved with. Securing the common good is as much about altering peoples’ internal moral compasses as it is about shifting the overall political discourse in society. Above all, common-good progressivism seeks to restore a common American purpose as a means to ensure shared prosperity and a more peaceful, stable global order.

The common good is not only a concise and clear organizing principle for progressives but also a potentially potent political theme for appealing to voters across the partisan and ideological spectrum. March 2006 research by the Center for American Progress reveals that 68 percent of Americans strongly agree that the “government should be committed to the common good and put the public’s interest above the privileges of the few” (85 percent total agree). Seventy-three percent of Democrats, 62 percent of Independents, and 67 percent of Republicans strongly agree with a common-good focus. A common good progressive theme scored well above typical conservative values themes: for example only 54 percent of Americans strongly agree that “Americans have gotten too far away from God and family,” and just 41 percent strongly agree that “religion is on the decline in America.” Importantly, the study reveals that liberals/progressives hold a 22-point advantage over conservatives on which ideological approach most represents “the common good.” 1

Economic common good

In less abstract terms, a common-good progressive approach would primarily focus on broadly shared economic opportunity and universal programs as the core means for appealing to two blocs of voters that are culturally and socially divergent. Part of the problem with the politics of mobilization and the politics of inoculation is that both approaches tend to elevate the cultural and social conditions of their respective targets without giving proper consideration to what divides each group and what could potentially unite them.

The progressive base is more secular, younger, more urban, less traditional, either highly educated and affluent or less-educated and poor, and much more diverse. In contrast, the centrist targets are more religious and traditional, older, more rural and exurban, more middle and working class and white. There is relatively little in common with these audiences from a social and cultural perspective, a condition that is not likely to change any time soon.

From our point of view, the strongest things that bring these groups together are class-based issues involving economic opportunity, fairness, and the American Dream. We believe that focusing proactively on class-based issues and the state of the global economy -- wrapped in the language and themes of the common good -- is the best way to bring these two blocs together into a functional majority coalition.

Common-good progressivism must therefore speak directly to the typical American’s view of today’s economic challenges and opportunities. As argued in a forthcoming paper by Jacob Hacker and Ruy Teixeira 2, that will require at least two things: first, a combination of backward-looking alarm and forward-looking optimism, and, second, a set of simple, easily conveyed policy ideas for addressing economic insecurity that add up, piece by piece, to a relatively coherent whole with universal appeal. And this in turn requires -- and this may be the biggest challenge -- that Americans come to see politics and government as ultimately on their side.

Perhaps the most important reason growing economic insecurity hasn’t shaken American politics to its foundation is that Americans think that they are on their own in the new world of work and family. And when you think you’re on your own, you are much less likely to trust politicians offering to help -- and much more likely to support those who tell you that fighting economic insecurity is just a matter of increasing personal responsibility and lavishing more tax breaks on IRA-style accounts that people can use to try to deal with economic risks on their own.

“Backward-looking alarm” may sound like a reactionary credo, but it means simply this: People across the board feel that security is slipping away, and nothing motivates voters like the prospect of losing something they already have (behavioral economists call this “loss aversion”). At the same time, Americans do not want to be told that they or their nation is struggling. They want a forward-looking vision that accommodates the changes in the economy and society that they value, one that combines the goal of security and the ideal of opportunity.

While voters generally agree the American Dream is becoming harder to attain for most, and that the economy is not working well for middle-class Americans, they still overwhelmingly believe that they themselves will succeed despite these difficulties. For example, in a 2005 New York Times poll on class in America, 70 percent said they had already attained the American Dream or would attain it in their lifetimes. And, when asked to rate themselves on a 10-point scale from extremely poor (1) to extremely rich (10), both for today and in 10 years, 62 percent rated themselves between 1 and 5 now, but 60 percent said they would be between 6 and 10 in ten years. 3

http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewWeb&articleId=11455

I urge all Democrats to take time to find and real all four parts of this strategy paper, written by John Halpin and Ruy Teixeira. I have posted only a tiny portion of it.
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