How many were fooled by last Thursday's Terror from the Skies?

[Philosoraptor]

First of all, "I" was fooled, to a degree. Of course, no one wants to admit to it, even though there is no shame in it, people are fooled every day, by the millions over one thing or another. More and more evidence has come forward that suggests the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth have been tampered with, to say the least.

I've been fooled by bushcho a few times, I didn't care for it, and it has made me a severe skeptic of every utterance from the white house and it's press corps.

This is not flame bait, but a straight out question about world news and events and lies from our lying white house and media.

Were you fooled, or are you still waiting for all the details to come in and then make your decision? Or, do you buy the story as more or less true?

Just curious.

[Breeze54]

1. Are you ok? n/t

[Philosoraptor]

3. Sure, and you?

[Breeze54]

7. Yes, I'm doing fine, dealing in reality.

Like poster #2 stated, just because that idiot is a liar and a cheat
doesn't make anybody any safer. In fact, it makes us more vulnerable.
I hope you're able to move out of NYC soon. :hug:

[Philosoraptor]

12. I'm on your side

I've been fooled, we all have.

[Breeze54]

15. Keep deluding yourself...

If you think you're safer now, and this was just a 'fuck your mind' drill,
which it may or may not have been. To delude yourself that we will never
be attacked again, is childish and denial. jmo.

9/11/01 wasn't the first time.


http://www.bethcarey.com/wtc/09-11-01tues/01.html
tuesday, 09-11-01 01
these are from our roof on st. marks pl. i saw the little orange spots and thought'
"no those can't possibly be flames." we debated wether the tops of the building
would topple over, i thought they would, kris either didn't or thought the whole
building would fall. i thought this conversation was hypothetical, i didn't think
it would really happen. we also were like "there are people in those offices" but
i could not fathom the reality.

--------------

Her words remind me of you.... :hug:

[Philosoraptor]

19. You may have taken my meaning wrong.

I never suggested we are safer, quite the contrary.

[Hubert Flottz]

23. Wanna really be scared?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=964034652002408586&q=steven+jones&hl=en

Every coward in America needs to watch this!

People too cowardly to care about their freedom being stolen, by the lying PNAC/neocons, are the ones who REALLY HATE AMERICA!

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hubert Flottz]

30. And I think I can guess what you are!

:hi:

Go watch that video.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hubert Flottz]

33. At least I don't need someone to hold my hand when I go shit!

Get a grip on your FEAR my friend...

[lonestarnot]

58. teeheeeeee!

[ProfessorGAC]

24. Methinks You've Misinterpreted P'Raptor

I don't think he believes in any way, that there is NO threat. Like me, i would guess he believes that this particular "threat" was trumped up and the reaction to it was hysterical and wholly unmeasured.

Certainly there are those willing to kill citizens of western democracies, for whatever reasons they may have. They might be fanatics. They might be deulsional about being able to hold back the advancement of societies. They might have some legitimate beef with the american gov't and are willing to take it out on the citizenry. (Which, btw, de-legitimizes, their beef.)

But, after the spending of billions of dollars, and the expansion of gov't power of intrusion into the lives of the citizens, if 20 guys from the suburbs of Britain can pose this great a threat, there are only two options: 1) We have no hope of stopping terrorists this bent on destruction with our current measures, or; 2) These guys weren't really much of a threat and the gov't spent way too much energy blowing its own horn. If the anti-terror approach is working, #2 must be the answer. If it isn't, #1 must be.
The Professor

[Breeze54]

29. I'm well aware of 'the raptor' and his philosophy.... n/t

[ProfessorGAC]

41. A Reply Stunning In Its Avoidance Of Content

The Professor

[krkaufman]

65. Many more options/scenarios beyond the two you've posed

To start, the liquid bomb group was stopped using "current measures", but this does not preclude some of the current measures being overkill or a stimulant of terrorism. And, regardless, this government will blown its own horn loudly and, most often, unjustifiably.

[Imagevision]

68. I'm waiting until this story mysteriously fades into obivion...

[mrcheerful]

17. Your joking right? Bush fooled you?

From the second shrub opened his mouth to say he was running for preznut I figured everything he said was a lie and deception. I knew he was a monster from day one, anyone that can execute a human without a thought of remorse is not someone I'd trust with my freedom. Even when 9/11 happened I never believed one word Shrub said about keeping america safe, Shrub is an unfeeling grub that only seeks one thing, how to get what he wants without having to put effort into it. He couldn't fool anyone except the ones who wanted to be fooled.

[Philosoraptor]

20. The Brits fooled me on this one, but I wised up.

[lonestarnot]

60. It's the wooolif! It's the wooolif! It's the wooolif!

[Lerkfish]

2. was skeptical and waiting for more details

however, just because Bushco is corrupt, doesnt' mean there aren't terrorists out there. In fact, I think, BECAUSE of Bushco, there are more of them than before.

[Philosoraptor]

4. bush has multiplied terrorism and made us all unsafe.

I don't deny that there are now thousands of men waiting to attack us.

[Ohio Joe]

5. Personaly, I'm still waiting

I've not really been able to follow the news much the last few days, so there may be information released that would allow me to make up my mind. I'll still be real busy with work for a few days though and will catch up then. I almost never take first reports on anything as complete, there is always more to the story.

[Philosoraptor]

8. Too bad I even have to ask.

I agree, day one is not the time to decide on a story's merits, it usually takes a week, sometimes months for the truth to emerge.

I understand you completeley.

[RC]

6. I'm waiting to find out that these guys were the

victims of a sting. And had no way to carry out their plan except with the help of their informant(s).

[Philosoraptor]

9. You can't say Americans don't give the benefit of the doubt.

We WANT the truth, but we have to seek it out OURSELVES.

[acmavm]

11. Which is not unheard of in this day and age. But that there are

what I guess for lack of a better term 'terrorist conspirators' out there is without a doubt true.

[dipsydoodle]

22. Be interesting to see

how many of them are further detained later today by the Magistrate's Court. Keep an eye on one of our news channels - http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-13537855,00.html
or http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4796995.stm

The one who was released last week had simply been a passerby near one of the arrest locations. Apparently he looked "suspicious" - whatever that's supposed to mean. I'm guessing he wasn't white with #1 haircut.

May have been this guy. :)

[DoYouEverWonder]

38. OMG

Is that Rowan Atkinson morphed into Osama?

Ew...

[dipsydoodle]

44. Yes indeed

There are a few pics about like that. First one I got from an ex-school friend in Toronto was immediately after 9/11. They are all titled : Osama Bean Laden - Be afraid, be very afraid.

Hope you are keeping well. Think I might change my cat avatar to a 5 string. :)

[leveymg]

32. That's exactly what happened - only they weren't so much victims as dupes

of an operation that appears to have started as a genuine plot in Pakistan but was taken over by ISS and then handed off to MI6, which then controlled the thing for a year, before the Americans started calling the shots a couple weeks ago. It was the White House who determined the timing of the big bust, and which tried to make political hay out of it against the Democrats - disgusting.

See, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/8/15/131718/996 including the discussion string

[Warpy]

10. Bojinka

was my first thought. That was a successful plot carried out by two North Korean agents in the late 80s who had liquid explosives in carry on bags, assembled the bomb aboard the plane, and then skedaddled during a stopover. The plane exploded in the air, killing everyone on board.

I also thought about the new mom who had to drink her own breast milk.

This is an old, old threat. That they're trotting it out again shows how desperate they are to have stupid peole scared out of their wits so they'll vote for the big daddies in DC to save them from the bogeymen.

[leveymg]

34. What makes you think that KSM and his nephew were NK agents?

Or that Bojinka was successful?

[Warpy]

36. Woops, I confused two separate things

The successful plot featuring the two NK agents was unnamed in 1987.

The unsuccessful (because it was exposed) Bojinka plot was a copycat plot cooked up in the Philippines in 1995.

The point remains that this is a very old threat and nothing new. It's a tempest in a teapot by a bunch of men facing tough elections. Blair knows his days are numbered and the GOP is in serious trouble.

[Greyhound]

13. Not for one second. If you live by the rule that everything you see

on TV and what passes for the "news" these days is utter bullshit, you will be right nearly all of the time.

The details, as they begin to penetrate the wall of propaganda, are beginning to show this "event" to be wholly manufactured bullshit, just like the last "terrorist plot" in Miami was. These "terrorists" had no money, no explosives, and some of them didn't even have passports, so how were they going to pull off this grand "attack"?

[Philosoraptor]

14. I believed it for about 10 minutes.

Because deep down inside, I wanted to believe the British, thinking that they had more credibility than our constantly lying government, but then, I changed my mind.

[CJCRANE]

27. All it takes is

for Blair's stooges in SIS to give "intelligence" to the police that they are compelled to act on. In this case it seems the "intelligence" behind the urgency of the raids came from the US.

[leveymg]

35. Bits and pieces of the official narrative, some large, are true.

But, overall, this was a sting and there never was a real danger to the public unless the authorities screwed up. The worst part of it is the sickening effort of the WH to exploit it against the Dems.

[Greyhound]

70. I don't think there is any doubt that these guys are/were saying/writing

things about how they would do such and such, and a binary explosive device could be smuggled through airport security, and how they would like to destroy the US, etc.

The problem seems to be that there is no credible evidence that they had the means to carry out any of it. There is a large and growing number of professional engineers and physicists that are calling bullshit on the criminal cabal.

[Hubert Flottz]

16. I've been so scared I haven't dared to get on a plane...

and I never will fly again! I won't even go to town!

If you change the way you live the terrorists have won...look at the way America's freedom has been stolen By Bush since 9/11! Terrorism is a tool used by those(anyone)who are out to destroy your freedom and liberty.

[FloridaPat]

18. Nothing these jerks have done since they've been in office is what

it looks like. I was waiting for more details. And am actually suprised that the details were such a joke. Just like the Miami raids. Much ado about nothing - again. They have not been able to put one real terrorist in jail since 2000. They have supposidly a lot of dead ones. #2 al Qaeda guy has died at least a dozen times. But no one has been captured and jailed that is a real terrorist. Of course it's hard to tell since * won't let lawyers or courts investigate anything. And they've done everything they can to get foreign courts to no prosecute terrorists in other countries by no allowing "secret" information into the courts.

[Solly Mack]

21. Small truths exploited by big lies creates an environment

where it's hard to separate fact from fiction.

If your goal is to keep people discombobulated, it's the ideal tactic.

I remain skeptical. Peel an onion you get more layers...the more you peel, the more layers you find

[katmondoo]

28. I wait two weeks

It seems to take two weeks for some of the truth to dribble out

[yasmina27]

25. My thought? Bojinka redux

and why are people buying into the propaganda? I don't doubt that the boogeyman is out there plotting to get us, but the timing of this and other "terra" threats and arrests is just too damn coincidental.

I'm sorry. I don't think the terrorists are that stoopid. If they were smart enough to execute 9/11, they are smart enough to come up with other ways of sabotaging planes, not use a plan that was blown (pardon the pun) over 10 years ago.

The sheeple are the ones who are stupid. Most amuricans don't pay enough attention to these things to know that this was not a new plot

[marions ghost]

37. philosoraptor

How many more times will it happen before you will not be fooled again? Has this experience made you less likely to buy the hype in future?

Not mocking you at all and appreciate your acknowledgment. You are certainly not alone. Of course we all can be fooled, by different things. I'm just considering your question from the perspective of --how many times do you think they have to cry wolf before people refuse to believe anything they are told by the media or govt ever again? I know I'm just about at that point. Can we as a society become immune to scare tactics?

Or, on the other hand do you think people are now more sensitive and reactive than ever (much as a victim of PTSD would be)? I'm just wondering if the tide is turning here, toward less reactivity, or if I'm just imagining that?

Interesting question you pose....where are we collectively on the scale of terra alert receptivity?

[Philosoraptor]

39. We're all being played and hoaxed big time.

I think last Thursday many here reached the point of no return. I see the pattern of believing everything on t.v. finally wearing too thin.

The timing, the loose ends, the inconsistancies, the smell. I think many people are becoming what I've been all my life, cynical and jaded.

[Hubert Flottz]

40. "cynical and jaded"

And who's fault is that? The boys crying wolf to try and stampede the voters, are making it easier for a real attack to be pulled off.

The lies are causing us to drop our guard a little more, every time the vote rustlers start a stampede. The liars are the ones who are helping the terrorists sow fear in America. Fear is the objective of the terrorists...



Terrorism, n, The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.(as in vote for Joe Lieberman, or the terrorists will get you)

Dick and Bush and Karl are laughing all the way to the bank.

[zanne]

42. If you're not a skeptic these days, you're abnormal.

(And I mean that in a good way). Honestly, haven't we earned the right to be skeptical of this administration? When they keep doing the same bogus thing over and over again, they create skeptics. It used to be just liberals who didn't believe Bush and his minions. Now, it's most of the country. They can keep fooling the 30% who want to be fooled, but he can't stoke fear in us anymore.

[Philosoraptor]

43. Many people cannot admit that the U.S. is a terrorist state now.

Literally, they are terrorists, this is very difficult to accept, and it will take time.

[Hubert Flottz]

45. They'd damned sure better wake up real soon...

Because Bush is using this to win another election and to grab even more power by making his spying on us totally legal. The neocons ALWAYS have several reasons for every step they take.

Edit...Bush is also trying to get congress to forget all about the WAR CRIMES, which the neocons are probably guilty of.

[zanne]

49. Yup.

Look at Iraq. We didn't go in for just one reason. Sure, there was oil, but they also used it to win the 04' election, "strengthen" the Executive branch and give Bush more power, and reward their buddies with no-bid contracts. Yeah, they "hit the Trifecta" alright.

[marions ghost]

46. yes

I agree there are some serious psychological blocks --causing a disconnect even in those who are not normally gullible. The implications are just so horrendous. You don't want to think that your govt is capable of classic totalitarian scare tactics. People WANT to trust their govt, be assured of their basic freedoms, and be proud of their country. It's becoming clear that we are denied all that now and we can take absolutely nothing for granted.

[muriel_volestrangler]

47. The ban on hand luggage made me think they must have had good evidence

because in the past, the British police have just arrested people, and given lots of "be afraid" stories to the press. Even when they parked tanks outside Heathrow, it ddn't actually disrupt people's routines too much. But this screwed the airlines and the travelling public in the middle of the vacation season - and I didn't think they'd do that without good reason, because they risk huge unpopularity.

But now I think they're going to pass the buck around so much we can't hold anyone to blame, and it'll turn out their evidence is thin, as before - they just made more of a noise this time because we had got blase about their earlier stories. I would like to know why they have decreased the terror alert and allowed some carry on baggage again - does that imply their earlier actions were too much? What has changed in the last couple of days that made things safer?

[Philosoraptor]

48. Sadly, this is what it's come to.

The fact that we've been hoaxed so many times has us all wondering what's behind the news.

[marions ghost]

51. good point

you wouldn't think they'd go so far as to disrupt the airlines and all that without good reason...yes I could see how that would increase the tendency to believe this was a critical situation.

I wonder if there is more skepticism about the story now in Britain vs. the US, or is it about the same?

[Divernan]

50. In Chicago's MIdway Airport yesterday afternoon, I had this insane urge.

Midway (I fly in and out of there every month) has doubled it's screening capacity. As I slowly progressed through the cattle chutes/lines with hundreds of fellow travellers, I wanted to shout (and I have the capacity to project my voice pretty damn far), "We still have freedom of speech in this country. Everyone here who thinks this security alert is a load of bullshit because Bush freaked over the Leiberman loss, just peacefully raise one hand."

Of course that would have landed me in custody immediately. But my god, the atmosphere in those lines was so grim! A lot of people traveling for vacations - many families w/ kids; lots of older, retired types - hardly saw a smile anywhere. Whether people bought into Bush's scare tactics or saw through them - there was "no joy in Muddville". I talked to a lot of people in the course of my trip - nursing home staff, Hospice staff, motel staff, as well as fellow air travellers - and not one of them had a good word to say in support of Bush or his foreign policy or the billions he's spent on his war policies, or his lack of support for the VA hospitals & vets. A conversation would start about the dangers of depleted uranium, and Iraq vets of this war, and someone would talk about the health problems of vets of the first Iraq war, and someone else would talk about a relative who'd been exposed to Agent Orange in Nam and how the VA hospitals denied the role of Agent Orange in causing serious illness for years. There is a growing awareness that money thrown down the toilet in Iraq could have and should have been spent to protect and secure the US at and within its own borders. People agree that Bush has created more terrorists in the midEast.

[AusTexDem]

52. not me

[Philosoraptor]

55. Oooh, good one.

[Canuckistanian]

53. I first heard about it on our Canadian CBC radio

And to listen to them, this was a global catastrophe averted in the nick of time. They even pre-empted all scheduled programs just to cover it.

As soon as the details came out - all fairly young kids, all from the suburbs of London and no mention of any evidence at all. And of course, the timing, right after the Lieberman loss.

The first thing I thought was that this was just a variation of the Jose Padilla story. An angry kid with a big mouth but no terrorism connections whatsoever.

Lots of smoke, but no real fire.

And of course since then the story has fallen apart quite as I had suspected.

[warrens]

54. The story seems credible to me

Just because a few people think it's a hoax doesn't make it one. If it is, it will fall apart pretty quickly once the lawyers get involved.

[Philosoraptor]

56. I'm not trying to project a hoax where there isn't one.

You may be right, I may be wrong, stranger things have happened.

[flyarm]

57. not fooled..n/t

[tomp]

59. not fooled in the slightest.

i don't believe anything i hear from the govt/media, period.

[izzybeans]

61. I ran out and bought duct tape and plastic sheeting before I boarded

my flight. I wrapped it around myself. Had my wife tape it up real tight. And then twenty minutes later I passed out on the tarmac before boarding. I may have spent the night in the psych. ward at the local hospital but I'll tell you what; I'd do it all over again. No bombs will be entering the skin of Izzybeans. Not as long as I've got my tuct tape.

Well not duct tape really. I could only afford the blue painters masking tape because of price inflation. Oh well, maybe if I get that Christmas bonus I can put in that bomb shelter. My son is sitting under a school desk as we speak. We take the desk with us whenever we fly. And yes I took his artbox out so that the glue was not confused for liquid explosives. I'm just not sure what to do with all these cans of silly puddy and candles.

[redacted]

62. Good analysis by someone definitely not fooled:

http://mp3.rbnlive.com/Tarpley/0608/20060812_Sat_Tarpley1.mp3

http://mp3.rbnlive.com/Tarpley/0608/20060812_Sat_Tarpley.ram

[FearofFutility]

63. I guess I'm still waiting, but believe that it is

more or less true. I really haven't heard anything that leads me to think that I've been completely fooled. I do believe that Bush has and will to continue to milk it for all it's worth.

[Az_lefty]

64. I don't believe a word these bastards say any more...

so count me as not being fooled a bit.

[LSK]

66. this post sums up my initial reaction

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1872695

[MrCoffee]

67. I admit to buying into the Miami guys for a while, but this...

As soon as I finished reading the banner headline I figured it was horseshit.

[eridani]

69. It seemed obvious to me that the threat was potential--

--not in any way imminent.