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A question about the 2000 vote recount fiasco

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RoseMead Donating Member (953 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 01:27 PM
Original message
A question about the 2000 vote recount fiasco
I was at a cookout this weekend and got into a vigorous discussion with some people present. One of the things brought up was the question of whether Dubya was actually elected in 2000 or whether the election was stolen. I said there was evidence that it was stolen, but that the recount had been stopped, so we may never know what the votes said for sure. My opponent stated that there had been several independent recounts, and that the only one that showed a win for Gore was the one funded by Democrats (or something to that effect).

Can anyone enlighten me on this?
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. Settled history
Gore won.
Now get over it.:sarcasm:
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 01:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. technically, true
You would have had to count the over and undervotes to put Gore over the top. The judge hearing the case might have ruled that way, but the state supreme court ordered a state-wide recount, which not all counties did the same way (some just retotaled the optical reader counts).
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Yeah, that's why I keep this website alive - where were you?
A year later, a consortium of U.S. media organizations published the results of an exhaustive study of all of Florida’s unread ballots. The consortium concluded that had all these ballots been counted and the discernable votes been tallied, Al Gore would be the 43rd President of the United States.

http://www.unprecedented.org/UnprecedentedAboutTheFilm.htm

Let's see ... one of us was involved in the process and changed the future. The other is full of hot air. Which one blows?
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I was watching you sabotage several Democratic research projects (eom)
Edited on Tue Aug-15-06 03:20 PM by grasswire
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Fredda Weinberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. You mean I warned everyone about Bev Harris? Yeah, I did that
And I've also noted multiple times that the focus on Diebold obscured the fact that all DREs are unreliable. I get to say I told you so ....
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. in ALL BUT ONE of 9 scenarios GORE WON those "recounts"
but no one canoverrule the Supreme Court (which had NEVER interfered in a predidential election before) so that was that, apparently.

details here, with links:

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2001/111201a.html
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RoseMead Donating Member (953 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Thanks!
I try to make sure I know what I know, but sometimes, I dunno...:)
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. It's not your fault--the GOP and media have BURIED this story
as deep as it can go under all the confusion of 9/11. But the truth will come out, if we help--

:)

welcome to DU!

:hi:
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. was the supreme court members bought off?
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. several had conflicts of interest--Scalia's kid worked for Bush, for examp
but no one will ever be held accountable for the crime of 2000--not in this world
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savemefromdumbya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. the Sc vote should have been therefore void
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
7. Complicated issue, involving more than the hand counts
There were two hand counts. One was done by a consortium of the media, I think headed by Knight-Ridder. It only counted the undervotes, IIRC, and it concluded Bush would have won.

The more comprehensive count was done by a group connected to the University of Chicago, who made no conclusions, but tallied all votes into various categories. Those already counted were categorized as counted. The rest of the votes were categorized in every possible way, such as "undervote, hanging chad, three corners detached," etc.

After this count, the media was able to use the database to determine what the outcome would be of various election scenarios. Using the counting method the Florida Supreme Court ordered, Bush would have won. In all other scenarios, Gore would have won, but it would have been close. In one scenario, no questionably ballots were allowed, and only ballots that had been marked clearly but not counted were included. Most of these were from people who had punched either Bush or Gore, then also wrote in their name. This is counted as an overvote by the machines, but according to Florida law it would have been counted as a vote for the candidate chosen. Using these ballots, Gore won.

But there is a bigger issue of vote suppression, as many votes in traditionally Democratic regions were supressed, especially amongst black voters. One poll had a police roadblock on one of the main routes to the poll. Other polls were understaffed, so that lines were prohibitively long. And of course, there was the felon purge list, which was clearly an attempt to knock more black voters of the voting roles by excluding everyone with the same name as felons from as far away as Texas.

Once the votes were cast, somehow or another tens of thousands of votes in traditionally black neighborhoods were uncountable. This is blamed, usually, on flawed machines which had supposedly confusing instructions. There are also allegations of ballot tampering, but aside from statistics, there is little evidence to prove this conclusively.

One point that is not in question, even by Republicans. More people went to the polls to vote for Gore than Bush in Florida, and more people left believing they had voted for Gore than for Bush. Somehow along the way, tens of thousands of those votes were negated, by overvoting or undervoting, and also by the voter being told they couldn't vote. According to Florida election law, it is the intention of the voter, not the obeyance of the technical rules of voting, that counts. So, Gore won Florida, and it was stolen from him. A full handcount of disputed votes would have shown this, and did show this, but the specific counting method the Florida Supreme Court had ordered may have gone for Bush.

It's a typical Democratic/Republican difference of opinion. Democrats look at every situation and decide what they should do to resolve it. Republicans look at every situation and wonder what they can get away with to make it benefit them.
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Yupster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Then there was the Butterfly ballot
which cost Gore hundreds or even thousands of votes. More a screw-up than a recount in that case though, but I'm convinced that more Floridians thought they voted for Gore than for Bush.
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