I have had a change of heart

[William769]

I have always considered myself a moderate to conservative Democrat (social Liberal/fiscal conservative).

But after having lived through the past 6 years I want the most left wing Congress/President we can get.

America has suffered enough & I believe if we get our footing back socially the rest will fall in place. The poor & under privilaged have suffered the most and it's high time something is done about it.

So from here on out I will not bad mouth any Democratic candidate as long as he/she follows the parties line. I am even going to ease up on Howard Dean (See miracles do happen).

I want to see it get to the point that Conservatives start talking about moving to another Country.

ON EDIT: Spelling.

[Demeter]

1. Suddenly, You Are Looking Much More Attractive

Your hair is thicker and more stylish, your skin more youthful....are you married?

[NMDemDist2]

2. ...

:rofl:

[Debau2005]

3. haha

Now I have to clean the coffee off my screen. haha

[acmejack]

4. The Heavenly Chorus sings!

[William769]

5. Sorry to say widowed.

[Lerkfish]

16. having been widowed, myself, I understand.

rough thing to go through.

[liberaldemocrat7]

15. Social liberal fiscal conservative ---> Libertarian in my view.

In my view fiscal conservatism counters helping the poor and less fortunate in our country. There exists a party for social liberals fiscal conservatives. They call it the Libertarian party.

I consider myself a social liberal fiscal liberal and support some wars but not all.

[William769]

17. I would disagree.

How I am on fiscal conservative I don't mind at all, all the social Programs that the Feds Pay out to as long as there is a way to pay for them even raising taxes. What I didn't like was social programs & no way to pay for them. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think how I feel would be part of the Libertarian party platform.

[femrap]

22. Please realize that most of our tax monies go to

the Pentagon to create more ways to kill and destroy and interest on our debt....it certainly is NOT going to the mythical 'welfare mom.'

And, IMHO, the way our tax funds are being used by the Pentagon is NOT helping to fight terrorism and guerilla warfare. Last I checked, we had enough nukes to blow the Earth off its axis.

Glad you are seeing the light! Now can we get you to take a look at what Patriarchy is doing to the world?

[Lars39]

23. We spend more on *corporate* welfare than on social programs.

And bushco is busy re-directing every penny they can to the military budget. And our military budget is greater than all the rest of the countries' budgets.

[gademocrat7]

6. good post

[aikoaiko]

7. Not me -- I still have hope for a democrat leading most americans

to a better future. I'm so sick of leaders only leading half the country and ignoring the other half. Left wing extremists scare me only just a little less than right wing extremists.

[William769]

9. I can respect that.

But at least it better to lead half the Country in the right direction than half the Country in the wrong direction.

[LWolf]

26. When has the U.S. EVER had a left-wing leader?

Someone who led "only half the country?" I can't remember any. The "left-wing extremists" as applied to American politics is a right-wing smear tactic. The American liberal/progressive is just not that extreme, relatively speaking.

The "left-wing extremist" label bandied always makes me think about efforts to revive McCarthyism along with all of the other "back to basics" the Republican Party has been engaged in.

[marions ghost]

27. Agreed--can we even identify any left-wing extremists at this point?

Show me one. I can't think of any that have any real following today.

I don't actually remember much about the 60's. I guess there were a few left extremists around then (like the Weathermen maybe, were there any others?)--Yeah, McCarthy identified a few of those dangerous socialists before that. Seems that the Socialists had no effect on American politics. It was all about the Russians.

I say there are no left-wing extremists equivalent to the NeoCons.

Anyone care to refute this? Those with a sense of history, have we ever had any left-wing extremists that really got anywhere? (I don't consider those who worked for unions/workers rights extremists, nor for civil rights, nor womens rights. I think we'd all agree that those are mainstream concerns).

So WHY do we have this perennial myth that there are any extreme leftists left? Is it simply that the scary image of that rabid fire-breathing leftist has sold very well in these uncertain times?

[aikoaiko]

36. I agree there haven't been any left-wing extremist presidents.

But you and I are on the left. Leaders like Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton were only slightly left of center to people like me (and perhaps you -- I really shouldnt presume).

To the other side, Bush I and Bush II are only slightly right of center and Reagan was a moderate.

Either way, half the country felt abandoned and the other side was elected.

I still hope for a democrat leader who leads a vast majority of Americans.

[ClintonTyree]

8. Today's Liberal Democrat..........

is what an Eisenhower Republican used to be. It's frightening that our country has taken such a hard right turn in it's political ideology. I believe the political pendulum is slowly, but surely, swinging back to the left. Bush and his neo-con pals took things a little too far and people have had an epiphany, seeing that things have gotten WAAAAAY out of hand.
I hope so anyway, but no one has ever gone broke betting on the gullibility of the American public.

[Warren Stupidity]

10. We need a progressive agenda.

It starts with Universal Health Care and moves on from there.

[madokie]

14. all things should start with universal health care

that one act would do more for this country than anything else, imo

[hogwyld]

33. After getting healthcare for everyone

The second thing I would do is nationalize the oil industry, and the energy companies. Repeal the the dissterous tax cuts, bring ALL of our troops home, and cut the defense budget by 75% Reinvest in quality education, and rebuild our infrastructure.

[Warren Stupidity]

34. Labor law reform.

Full employment by reducing the work week and mandating vacation policies on par with European standards. Raise and COLA adjust the minimum wage. Re-energize OSHA and repeal Taft-Hartly.

[lostnfound]

11. Thank you for that.

I usually identify as a progressive but I can definitely also relate to those who think small government is best, or a weak federal government which makes me lean toward (individualist-oriented, not corporate-oriented) libertarianism or toward being an anarchist.

But whatever qualms I've had about "too-left" politicans getting into power have gone out the window in the last 5 years.

Truth be told, "the most left wing Congress/President we can get" won't actually be THAT far left, no matter what..
and I LOVE your last statement.

[Olney Blue]

12. Good points, W769.

:kick: and recommended!

[DemonFighterLives]

13. Change of heart and coming to your senses

Dean rocks btw. :yourock:

I don't quite understand the fear of "too far Left". What is the fear- that America will become totalitarian like China and the old Ruskies?

A final note: Be careful of some of the crappy candidates that the DLC is pushing. I think some of them may be infiltrators from the vast right wing.
:dem:

[jerry611]

18. I dont think the voters would approve

I've been to left-wing countries and I can tell you right now, the United States is not a left-wing country. You may get a left-wing government in order to get rid of the right-wing we have right now. But the public is going to want balance. And a left-wing leadership certainly will not create any unity in a country that has become more and more politically divided.

And there is a difference between conservatives and neo-cons. I've known conservatives already saying they want to move to another country.

[Lerkfish]

19. Before Reagan, *I* was considered centrist

then the whole country shifted right, and continues to, until now I look leftist by comparison.

just an observation.

[William769]

20. My father was a life long Democrat (may he rest in peace).

But he voted for Reagan in 1980. at the age of 83 he said that was the worst mistake of his life (and he had many). Whats happening in todays America I am proud to say my father would be out there screaming REVOLUTION.

[Lerkfish]

24. I've always voted democrat, and good to hear about your dad

and how you speak of him with pride.

I always voted democrat, though was tempted to vote for Anderson, but didn't .

My point about being centrist was that I was for social responsibility and fiscal responsibility working together, and against unnecessary military actions.

Now, for some reason, that's considered lunatic whackjob leftist here at DU.

[paparush]

21. You and Tom Petty

There's been a chaa-aa--anngge! There's been a change of heart!

[crispini]

25. It's funny you mention Dean...

"social liberal, fiscal conservative" is the very definition of the types of candidates that DFA supports.

Anyhoo, welcome and YAY! :hug:

[petgoat]

28. For twenty years I'd spent more time hanging with Republicans than

Democrats, and I'd also spent a lot of time in rural regions.

Republicans were starting to make sense to me. Their philosophy
was strange to me, but it was consistent and rational. The social
imperative of the Democrats seemed rooted in judeo-christian
morality and, as such, irrational. All this was in the context of
the Clinton prosperity, of course.

While I wasn't goint to start voting Republican, I didn't vote at
all. The Right wants to tell the Left they can't have abortions
or smoke pot; the Left wants to tell the Right they must pay taxes
for abortions and social programs they despise. Each 49% wants to
impose its program on the other 49%--if we'd just back off and
stop trying to use the federal gov't as a club to beat the other
guys up with, maybe we could all get along.

I like Ike:

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children.

Here in America we are descended in blood and in spirit from revolutionists and rebels - men and women who dare to dissent from accepted doctrine. As their heirs, may we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion.

How far you can go without destroying from within what you are trying to defend from without?

W is making Nixon, Goldwater, and even Reagan look like liberals!

For the duration of this national emergency I'll work with Greens,
Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, Communists, Anarchists and
what-have-you if they want honest elections, 9/11 truth, and
impeachment. The temptation to once again dream large nostalgic
dreams is there, but I'm too old to want to change the world,
really. And I doubt that we're going to overthrow the Federal
Reserve or the $500 billion-a-year drugs/terrorist/international
banking/intelligence cartel real soon.

I'd settle for paper ballots, a new 9/11 investigation, an end to
corporate welfare (including agricultural subsidies), a $100
billion cap on military spending, good schools in the inner
cities. Then I can go back to my poetry and what's left of my
life.

[Cleita]

30. Actually, the backbone of the Democratic Party is labor and

of the Republican Party is management. The Republicans operate from the premise that if you are helpful to corporations, they will provide the jobs for the working class. Therefore, regulations and labor laws must be kept to the minimum so that the corporations can operate in a free market.

The Democrats work from the premise that corporations exist to provide a framework for workers and they need to be regulated for the greater good. They believe that the more disposable income the worker has in his pocket to spend, the better the corporations will do in attracting revenue. This way we eliminate poverty and still have a wealthy economy. Liberals also believe that those who can't work like children, the disabled and the elderly should be taken care of by those who can work.

So Reagan operated from the trickle down theory and Clinton from the trickle up theory. I think you would have to have been living in a cave for the last twenty years if you don't see that the Democratic version of economics works better than the Republican version. What we are operating now isn't either, but war as an economic stimulus and the prosperity that results from war only trickles to a very few. Everything else is destroyed.

[petgoat]

31. Sure. Your dichotomy can also be viewed in the framework of a farm

metaphor.

The Repubicans own the land, borrow the money, make the payroll,
make the deals. Some years they lose money, and they figure that
gives them the right to house's odds on everything and the right
to keep the money in years they make out like bandits.

The Democrats work the fields, and the basic question is--to what
extent is the farmer obligated to give away the profits--or the
farm--to the workers?

Under Socialism the entire farm is given to the workers, and
from a greatest good to greatest number stanspoint, that makes
a lot of sense.

Under conservative capitalism for the farmer to pay anything more
than market rates for labor is irresponsible and potentially
disruptive to the economy. Christian capitalism says you pay your
(carefully selected) local farmhands pretty well, and support
institutional charitable aid for the transient workers.

Liberals want to legislate the institutional aid, but they're not
willing to make the leap to actually taking the farm away. They
serve the function in society that the charitable farmers' wives
serve in small farm towns--by making more just and perfect the
Republican-owned world, they legitimize their ownership of it.

Of course the farmer model is obsolete, because few people work
on farms any more.

And the industrial workplace, too, is gone in this country.

And outsourcing and modern gadgets like voicemail and email and
computers make numbered the days of rank and file office labor.

And it's difficult to get college graduates to think of themselves
as "labor" and get organized to fight for their rights.

The shift was made back in 1980 when blue-collar Reagan Democrats
put the neocons in power and allowed kindly Uncle Ronnie to cut
their throats and kill their kids' schools. Clinton helped the
process along with NAFTA and CAFTA. And now Bush is busy looting
the public treasury to ensure that no serious social programs
can be undertaken for twenty years.

I'd sure like to be wrong, but I'm reluctant to invest much hope
or energy in anything too ambitious. I just want to get rid of
the turd that's been dropped on my plate, then get back to some
kind of normal life.

[Cleita]

35. I gotta agree with your last statement, but

I think that we are going to have to do better when it happens so that turd stays flushed and any future turds stay in the sewer where they belong.

[annabanana]

32. I hear ya!

"I'd settle for paper ballots, a new 9/11 investigation, an end to
corporate welfare (including agricultural subsidies), a $100
billion cap on military spending, good schools in the inner
cities. Then I can go back to my poetry and what's left of my
life. "

I would add some real FCC action, and the fairness doctrine THEN,if we got the paper ballots, the rest would follow. I believe that the American people will always do the right thing. All they need is an honest vote, and accurate information.

[tblue37]

29. Howard Dean is a true moderate.

What's your problem with him?