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entanglement Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 05:19 AM
Original message
38 million Americans hungry or at risk of hunger!
Edited on Tue Aug-15-06 05:20 AM by entanglement
*13.9 million children live in food insecure households
*Millions are forced to choose between food and other necessities
*The use of emergency food assistance is growing steadily

More shocking, shameful hunger statistics at

http://www.secondharvest.org/learn_about_hunger/poverty_stats.html

http://www.hungerinamerica.org/key_findings/
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ERF Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 05:22 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hmm 12.6% are hungry, but 60% are overweight. Sounds
about right.
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ikojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. The food that many poor people have access to
is high in carbs and calories. There are neighborhoods in parts of this country where the only "grocery" store is a convenience type store and the selection sucks.
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ERF Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Why is that though? If there is a demand, it seems
to me someone would supply it. So obviously there is not enough demand for healthier foods for it to justify selling them in those places.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Not in George Bush's America.
A poor mom can purchase an orange for 89 cents or 3 packs of house brand mac & cheese. The economical things to buy - with a few exceptions such as oatmeal - are processed, fatty and high carb. Obesity, bad skin, lethargy, frequent illness - in a poor family that's likely from lousy food. But lousy food is better than no food.
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ERF Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 06:29 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Sorry, but you can't blame W. for the price differentials
here. That is the market and it also makes sense.

What goes into an organge and the cost of growing and transporting it, especially since it is perishable, compared with the mac&cheese certainly makes sense. Pasta and powdered cheese are quite cheap. The profit margins on the Mac & Cheese are probably a lot higher.

Of course if you are saying that people in W.'s America can't afford to eat healthy - thus there is no demand. That makes sense, because he is eviscerating the middle class - especially the lower middle.

But the prices make sense - unless you want to tax unhealthy food?
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. Does it make sense for an 89 cent orange to rot on the shelf
because people can't afford to buy it? Our local grocery store put out fresh cherries at $5.99/lb. Everyone walked by and looked at them (salivating all the while). A couple of days later they were marked down to $3.99 a lb. and a few sold. Finally, at the end of the week, they were $1.99 a lb. and about a minute away from rot and they sold out in an afternoon. Nutritious foods should be subsidized to be more affordable, but that, of course, is the opinion of an old lefty. Our country subsidizes bombs, not oranges.
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ERF Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. Sounds like the owner of the store was an idiot.
One has to price things so that they sell. Naturally it makes no sense to let an orange rot, then you lose 100%. Better to sell at cost. Not every decision made in every store is rational, it really should be a matter of average.

The thought of subsidzing health food is not a bad one. In fat, food in America is heavily subsidized. Through programs like food stamps as well as meals for children. Also, don't forget the billions of dollars that go to farmers.

So you suggestion isn't at all far off. The question, however, is what is a "healthy" food and who defines it (remember Reagan once classified ketchup as a vegetable)?

Won't big business interest groups make a killing lobbying to get their food subsidzed and then supplying it at low quality? What if people really do prefer mac&cheese?

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Laughing Mirror Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #6
18. Food banks and farmer's markets are stepping up to your plate
One such project in the nation's capital is the Anacostia Farmers Market where local farmers share their farm-fresh produce with residents who live miles from any normal grocery store.
At the Anacostia Farmers Market patrons can not only enjoy the simple pleasure of being surrounded by the tree lined atmosphere of Peace Park, but also the wide range of newly-picked produce, much of which is grown chemical-free. The selection of vibrant fruits and vegetables, fragrant herbs, beautiful fresh flowers, and homemade jams, jellies and sauces invites visitors to take home a bag of nutritious fare. Now in its seventh season, the Anacostia Farmers Market is unique in that it was designed to be a valuable resource to all residents. The AFM is the only open-air market in the area to accept WIC, EBT, and Senior “Get Fresh” vouchers. The market comes alive every second Wednesday, June through November, with special events which include musical entertainment, children’s crafts, cooking demonstrations, and volunteer chefs offering their favorite recipes. In addition to providing healthy food and nutrition education, the Anacostia Farmers Market donates unsold produce to neighborhood soup kitchens and non-profit organizations with feeding programs.

The Capital Area Food Bank is the largest public, nonprofit food and nutrition education resource in the Washington, D.C. Metropolitan Area. In 2004 the CAFB distributed 20 million pounds of food through more than 700 nonprofit partner agencies, including food pantries, day care and recreation centers, senior centers, faith-based organizations, homeless shelters and soup kitchens. The CAFB is celebrating 25 years of nourishing the National Capital region in 2005.

http://www.capitalareafoodbank.org/documents/documents/afmchilibowlMediaAdvisory.pdf

HARVEST FOR HEALTH / EAST OF THE RIVER

Helping You Reap the Benefits of Local Farms

An Initiative of the Capital Area Food Bank

The Harvest for Health/East of the River initiative encompasses several projects of the Capital Area Food Bank that strive to connect Washington, DC metropolitan area residents with local sources of fresh and healthy foods. During a time when many of our meals consist of foods grown in far away places, supporting small farms and sources of sustainable agriculture located right here, close to home, not only ensures that we all have regular access to good food but also helps to secure those sources exist in the future. Our Harvest for Health Initiative focuses primarily on bringing healthy food choices to urban communities located east of the Anacostia River, where convenient stores and take-out restaurants - very few of which offer fresh fruits and vegetables - tend to be the most accessible sources for something to eat.

http://www.capitalareafoodbank.org/programsresources/fmp.cfm

Anacostia Farmers Market Opening Day Celebrates Bay Protection, Affordable Food
Tuesday, June 13, 2006
By: CBF Staff

CBF's Clagett Farm, Capital Area Food Bank Provide Healthy Choices for People, Environment

WHEN
Every Wednesday
(3 - 7 pm) through November.

WHERE
“Peace Park”
14 Street SE, between U and V streets.

SPECIAL EVENTS featured the 2nd Wednesday of each month:

July 12: Family Fun Day
Aug. 9: Mid-Summer Celebration
Sept. 13: Chili Bowl Bonanza
Oct. 11: Fall Festival
Nov. 8: Giving Thanks


VISIT A FARMERS MARKET
NEAR YOU!
Anacostia Farmers Market

The Anacostia Farmers Market opened in Washington, DC this month, celebrating a 14-year partnership between CBF’s Clagett Farm and the Capital Area Food Bank. The joint effort, From the Ground Up, provides affordable, local produce to underserved communities while benefiting the environment through sustainable farming practices....

CBF raises produce on its 283-acre, sustainable Clagett Farm in Upper Marlboro, MD, half of which is distributed to underserved communities in Washington, DC through the partnership. The rest is sold through Community Supported Agriculture (CSA). The farm also raises grass-fed cattle and is home to a native tree and shrub nursery, which produces thousands of plants for CBF’s volunteer restoration plantings across Maryland to help improve water quality.

Last year, Clagett Farm provided 25,000 pounds of produce to low-income families, including through the farmers market.

The Anacostia Farmers Market, sponsored by the Capital Area Food Bank, provides fresh, local food for the community and features special events each month. The market also contributes unsold produce to neighborhood soup kitchens and non-profit organizations with feeding programs.

This year, the market will feature special programs each month, including health fairs and a chili cook off in September.

http://www.cbf.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=16886

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Gormy Cuss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #18
39. Massachusetts used to issue farmer's market vouchers for the F/S eligible
They were wildly popular with the farmers and customers. One of the farmers told me that she sold about 25% more on the first week of the month because of the voucher customers. Fruit was the #1 choice.

In Oakland CA there is a mobile grocery store bring fresh fruits and veggies to the neighborhoods and it's very popular.

There is plenty of evidence that low income people want to eat better quality food, especially fresh fruits and vegetables -- the issue is access to an affordable supply.
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ikojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #39
54. One day as I was scooting down St Charles Rock Road
in St Louis, I saw a farmer's market stand that had a sign saying they accepted EBT cards. Many people buy their fresh fruits and veggies at Soulard Market in St Louis and other such farmer's markets, the trouble is very few of them accept food stamps or EBT cards. Nice to see that one on the Rock Road accepting the cards.
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #6
24. High carb foods are cheap
Edited on Tue Aug-15-06 07:24 AM by theHandpuppet
Spaghetti and pasta, potatoes, bread etc. A package of bologna is a helluva lot cheaper than fresh, lean meat. Further, visit any food pantry and you'll see that high carb foods are, unfortunately, what most folks donate as well, when what is really needed are fruits, vegetables and lean meats.

The selling of prepackaged foods is much more cost-effective for convenience stores or corner markets. Fresh foods require additional display space and refrigeration which smaller stores do not have. In addition, fresh foods are only profitable (or affordable) if you can but them in sufficient bulk, which is why large grocery stores/chains have the advantage in that area.

Any more questions?
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ikojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #24
55. When I was a kid we ate a lot of high carb
foods such as mac and cheese and spaghetti because it stretches and feeds many. I've learned recently that my mom has never enjoyed cooking or preparing meals and pasta dishes are quick to prepare.
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Lone_Star_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #6
45. In some cases it's simply not cost effective to supply
Corner stores don't have as much cold storage room and aren't really able to provide storage for fresh fruits and veggies in large amounts. However, Frito Lay and Toms will come out on a regular basis and rotate their stock removing anything that may have went out of date without charging the store owner extra. It's the responsibility of the person who runs the route to know how much of what will sell per week.

Packaged goods such as mac & cheese and Raman have long shelf life and don't pose a high risk of loss due to spoilage to the store owner.

That's also why you find hot dogs and lunch meats in these stores rather than fresh chicken.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #6
50. Or lack of exercise; but eating garbage with carbs and processed sugars is
the biggest culprit for obesity.

And the cost of healthier foods is ridiculous too. Like Andy Rooney once said, we have to pay more to get less... :think:

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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #6
57. That is because they don't care...
they are in it for the money and they sell outdated food with dust on the jars and green meat.They do not sell a wide variety of products or fruits and vegetables. Most have to go to other areas to buy their food, that is if they have the transportation to get there.
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. Well they fill up on cheap food if they can find it.
I my self stopped eating meat 10 years ago as a general thing. Cost to much Some type used to be ate 3 times a day and I eat it once a week maybe. I have added more cheese into my diet but the type I like it also going up in cost. It gets to be a problem if you live on a fixed income in retirement. At my age you also have to think about all those tests doctors do and you may end up on pills. The diet is cheaper than the pills. The doctor and I had a big fight about pills as I could not find out what they cost. The doctor said he did not know and the drug store would not tell me. So I just stay with the diet and hope it keeps the numbers down to the level it is so the doctor will not make me feel any more guilty about the number being on the line for pills. I am not sure what I would do if I had children growing up in the home. When I had children at home I was a nut about how they ate just as my own parents were. We had those food charts up in the class room as I grew up.
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ERF Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Do you exercise? You really need to exercise.
Human bodies are meant to walk 10 miles a day, not sit around.
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melnjones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. Someone has health problems and financial problems...
so you assume they are lazy or aren't exercising? Amazing.
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ERF Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. I didn't accuse this person of not exercising. In fact
I encouraged them. You seem to be jumping a bit fast to conclusions. Better get that chip on your shoulder looked at.
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melnjones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 07:10 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. .
Edited on Tue Aug-15-06 07:12 AM by melnjones
nevermind.
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 07:18 AM
Response to Reply #11
25. Not 10 miles a day but I do what I need.
The point is if you go by the charts for good eating, I am not sure poor people can do it and it is really hard on a fixed income. I am pretty sure most younger people have hardly heard of these charts and I guess the state of Maine figured we were so stupid that they had to put them up in every class room as I grew up. I can recall we put on stars if we ate the right stuff. My mother was ill so I guess we grew up on a bad heart diet which seems to be a pretty good one and fell right in with what the state was pushing. Sounds funny to day but my father went to Boston once a week and always stopped at the big market so we always had fresh fruit which was hard to get.
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ERF Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #25
31. Good for you. Take care of yourself.
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #31
38. I was sure some one would ask me why the lack of fresh fruit.
Which is sort of what one usually gets. People for get if you were born in the 30's it was pre-super markets and plane dropping off fresh tomatoes in mid-winter.
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 05:55 AM
Response to Original message
3. - the planet provides enough for everyone . . .
Edited on Tue Aug-15-06 06:16 AM by OneBlueSky
it's the distribution -- fueled by greed, prejudice, and wrong priorities -- that causes such wide-spread hunger . . .

in a sane world, one of the first things that ALL so-called leaders of ALL nations would agree to would be making eradicating hunger their highest collective priority . . .

when a brother or sister goes hungry, it's a direct reflection on our inability and/or unwillingness to care for each other . . .

and since they ARE out brothers and sisters, the failure to ensure that no human goes to bed hungry is unconscionable evidence of human callousness, inhumanity, and greed . . .

if we are to survive (doubtful at this point), we must do much, much better . . .

because if we don't, the karma will most definitely get us . . . big time . . .
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entanglement Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. I agree
It's a shame that hunger is totally unnecessary, totally preventable, and EASILY fixable - something the earth's rich and powerful could erase in a moment IF THEY WANTED TO.

Have you noticed that the billions upon billions of dollars needed to kill, maim and hurt using the latest technology are ALWAYS available, yet when it comes to feeding the hungry, one hears about deficits, budgets, 'personal responsibility' and so on ad nauseam?
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OneBlueSky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 06:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. it's all becaue we, the people, no longer have any say whatsoever . . .
Edited on Tue Aug-15-06 06:29 AM by OneBlueSky
(if we ever did) in anything our government does . . . from rigged elections to no-bid contracts to lobbyists actually writing the regulations that govern their industries, it's all a huge class struggle in which the "haves" are completely ignoring the "have-nots" . . .

but since there are a hell of a lot more have-nots than there are haves, this won't go on much longer . . . "the people, united, will never be defeated" . . .

the difficulty, of course, is accomplishing the "united" part . . . we still seem to think that those different from us are somehow lesser humans . . . or not even human at all . . . until we understand what a lie this is, not much will improve . . .

we just have to pray that the haves don't destroy the planet and the life it supports before they can be stopped . . .
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ERF Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 06:32 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. What do you think would be the best mechanisms for
attaining an adequate distribution of resources?
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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 06:02 AM
Response to Original message
4. Oh, the Compassion!
Can we endure much more?
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ERF Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 06:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. What are you trying to say?
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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. I'm trying to say it is inexcusable that even one goes hungry
in the richest Nation on Earth. Compassionate Conservatism just enrages me! What did you think I meant (out of curiosity)?
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ERF Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 07:07 AM
Response to Reply #20
22. I had no idea. Which is why I asked.
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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 07:20 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. Would have thought it was fairly obvious.
Apparently not. Must need more coffee, perhaps something stronger.
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #26
32. It was obvious to me, acmejack
Here, have some coffee on me: :donut:

:hi:
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FlavaKreemSnak Donating Member (288 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 06:36 AM
Response to Original message
14. Everything you read says the poor percentage in the USA is going up

And it is going to have to go up more because the war on terror is so expensive. It is going to mean some big changes in the way a lot of us live, we will have more of a low income type lifestyle. And so far it hasn't caused a problem but that won't last, and just like we do with the people in the Middle Eastern countries where we have pro-American leaders, but the people are not very pro-American and so have to be kept under a crackdown, soon there will have to be a crackdown here, too, because of the class war. This came up in another thread earlier tonight, I don't have the link, but anyway, if you start reading about it, and the people who are losing their homes because of the mortgage rates, etc you will see what I mean.
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ERF Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 07:06 AM
Response to Reply #14
21. How is the WOT related to poverty? That claim is
absurd. The WOT is, by historical standards, very inexpensive.

I haven't honestly seen statistics that show me poverty is increasing. Maybe you can point me to it, or I am misunderstanding your definition of poverty.

There are lots of reasons the middle class is being eviscerated, but the WOT is not one of them. The WOT is a means to take away libertiies, not to increase poverty.
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FlavaKreemSnak Donating Member (288 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #21
27. Look at how much Iraq is costing. There is a website that tells you that.

It is http://costofwar.com

That is just Iraq. Now add on to that Afghanistan, and some of the other ones that you don't think about much like the ones with the pro-American leaders. If you will start reading about it you find out that those leaders are not very popular with the people, that they are not so pro-American. So to keep them under crackdown is getting more expensive. Also we are using a lot of soldiers that are not like army and marines, etc but private security contractors like Blackwater and Dyncorp have. They are very expensive and we keep needing more of them. Now there is Lebanon, and Israel needs a lot of extra foreign aid for that. And it all adds up. Other people that know a lot more than me will be able to tell you other things that make it expensive, but it is kind of like your home budget, if you spend all your money on one thing then you are not going to have as much money for other things. And when you look at the USA budget, you see that a lot of programs that would help poor people had to be cut, so that more could go for programs for defense, which means the war on terror.
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ERF Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. What are those costs as a percentage of GDP?
That is what is relevant and they are small.

The US govt. spent 43% of GDP to fight WWII. Healthcare costs 15%. The US military even with the WOT spends less than 4.5%.

Your claim makes no sense.
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 08:24 AM
Response to Reply #29
34. Please provide links to back up your claims
After all, you should at least be able to provide what you demand from others.

Here, I'll let you borrow this one: http://www.warresisters.org/piechart.htm
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #21
28. You want statistics on rising hunger and poverty in the U.S.?
Here, have some. There are plenty more where these came from.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/10/0510290939...

Source: Brandeis University
Posted: October 29, 2005
Hunger In America Rises By 43 Percent Over Last Five Years

Hunger in American households has risen by 43 percent over the last five years, according to an analysis of US Department of Agriculture (USDA) data released today. The analysis, completed by the Center on Hunger and Poverty at Brandeis University, shows that more than 7 million people have joined the ranks of the hungry since 1999.

The USDA report, Household Food Security in the United States, 2004, says that 38.2 million Americans live in households that suffer directly from hunger and food insecurity, including nearly 14 million children. That figure is up from 31 million Americans in 1999.

"This is an unexpected and even stunning outcome," noted center director Dr. J. Larry Brown, a leading scholarly authority on domestic hunger. "This chronic level of hunger so long after the recession ended means that it is a man-made problem. Congress and the White House urgently need to address growing income inequality and the weakening of the safety net in order to get this epidemic under control." According to the Center on Hunger and Poverty, food insecurity increased by nearly a million households from 2003 to 2004. Rates of hunger increased in almost every single category of household during the same time, with single mothers and those living in or near poverty continuing to suffer from severely high rates of both food insecurity and hunger..." MORE

From: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/1005-02.htm
Published on Wednesday, October 5, 2005 by Reuters
US Poverty: Chronic Ill, Little Hope for Cure
by Bernd Debusmann

Four decades after a U.S. president declared war on poverty, more than 37 million people in the world's richest country are officially classified as poor and their number has been on the rise for years.
Last year, according to government statistics, 1.1 million Americans fell below the poverty line. That equals the entire population of a major city like Dallas or Prague.

Since 2000, the ranks of the poor have increased year by year by almost 5.5 million in total. Even optimists see little prospect that the number will shrink soon despite a renewed debate on poverty prompted by searing television images which laid bare a fact of American life rarely exposed to global view.... MORE


From: http://mediamatters.org/items/200509190007
Wash. Post editorial's "broad look" at U.S. poverty falsely claimed Bush poverty increases started under Clinton

A September 19 Washington Post editorial falsely asserted that the overall poverty rate in the United States has steadily increased "since 1999." In fact, the poverty rate decreased during every year of President Clinton's tenure -- indeed, the rate was even lower in 2000 than it was in 1999 -- and has increased every year since President Bush took office. Further, while the editorial purported to present a "broad look at poverty in America," which it claimed "shows significant, and in some case impressive, progress," the Post never mentioned to readers the reversal of this progress that has occurred under the Bush administration, in some cases providing misleading statistics that hide this fact.

The Post editorial noted that the total poverty rate has "disturbingly" increased in recent years:

The overall poverty rate fell from 19 percent in 1964 to 12.7 percent last year, though most of that decline occurred during the first decade. Since 1999, the rate has been edging steadily, and disturbingly, upward.

But the claim that the poverty rate has continuously increased "since 1999" is patently false. In fact, the rate dropped from 11.9 percent in 1999 to 11.3 percent in 2000, Clinton's final year in the White House. It has since risen every year that Bush has been in office, from 11.7 percent in 2001 to 12.7 percent in 2004... MORE

From: http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0104520.html
Poverty in the United States
Source: U.S. Bureau of the Census, Aug. 2005 supplement to the Current Population Survey (CPS). Web: www.census.gov.

The poverty rate in 2004 rose to 12.7%, up from 12.5% in 2003. About 37.0 million people were poor in 2003, 1.1 million more than in 2002. Both the number and rate have risen for four consecutive years, from 31.6 million and 11.3% in 2000.

For children under 18 years old, the poverty rate and the number in poverty were both unchanged between 2003 and 2004, remaining at 17.8% and 13.0 million, respectively. The poverty rate of people 18 to 64 years old increased from 10.8% to 11.3% in 2004, while and that of seniors aged 65 and over decreased from 10.2% to 9.8%. Children represented 35.2% of the people in poverty, while representing only 25.4% of the total population... MORE

From: http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-08-30-census-poverty_x.htm
1.1 million Americans joined ranks of the poor in 2004
By Richard Wolf, USA TODAY
WASHINGTON — The number of Americans living in poverty rose by 1.1 million to 37 million last year, despite a robust economy that created 2.2 million new jobs. It was the fourth consecutive year poverty has risen.

Other studies and reports:
http://www.hungerinamerica.org /
http://www.centeronhunger.org /
http://www.ers.usda.gov/publications/err11 /
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=50...
http://www.frac.org/html/hunger_in_the_us/hunger_index....
http://www.anotherperspective.org/advoc209.html
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=50...
http://www.mathematica-mpr.com/nutrition/secondharvest....
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1210-22.htm
http://www.soundvision.com/Info/poor/statistics.asp
http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2513/
http://www.irp.wisc.edu/faqs/faq3.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States
http://dukenews.duke.edu/2005/08/poverty_print.htm

From http://us.oneworld.net/article/view/128407/1 /?
Incomes Fall, Hunger Worsens as Bush Says 'We're Doing Fine'
Abid Aslam
OneWorld US
Tue., Feb. 28, 2006

WASHINGTON, D.C., Feb 27 (OneWorld) - The average American family has taken a financial tumble and millions in the country go hungry despite President George W. Bush's sunny assessment of the U.S. economy, say federal data and economists.

Bush talked up the nation's wealth last week during a speech in Milwaukee. ''We're doing fine,'' he said and described the economy as ''strong and gaining steam.''

Economic growth had clocked a respectable 3.5 percent, unemployment had been held down to 4.7 percent with more than four million new jobs created in the past 30 months, and after-tax income had risen eight percent since 2001, he said.

Within days, however, the Federal Reserve reported that average incomes after adjusting for inflation actually had fallen between 2001 and 2004.

At the same time, the number of Americans who need emergency food aid to survive had swollen to more than 25 million even before hurricanes Katrina and Rita struck, the nation's largest network of food banks said in a separate report....

From http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/view/2231/1/132
Labor Researchers: Bush Policies Perpetuate Black Poverty
By AFL-CIO

Nov. 17—Bush administration policies that cut education and basic anti-poverty programs in favor of tax cuts for the wealthy have exacerbated sharp differences in job opportunities for white and black workers, according to a new report by the Labor Research Association (LRA), a New York-based research and advocacy group....

(snipping))
Republican leaders in the U.S. House on Nov. 10 postponed action on a budget bill that would cut more than $50 billion from vital working family programs because they failed to find the votes to win. But House leaders and the Bush administration are expected to continue pressuring lawmakers to pass the budget cuts before the Thanksgiving recess.

The House bill includes $10 billion in cuts for Medicaid health services for poor children and long-term care patients and would raise the costs of prescription drugs for beneficiaries. It also would take some $5 billion from child support enforcement, $1.3 billion from foster care and Social Security disability payments and $844 million from food stamps.

Earlier that day, the Senate Finance Committee refused to move a $70 billion package of tax cuts for the wealthy promoted by congressional leaders and the Bush administration. Republican leaders, unable to secure enough votes on the 11-Republican, nine-Democrat panel to move the bill to the full Senate, postponed the vote on the tax cuts.... MORE

From: http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/7983.html
July 20, 2006
Bush's half-hearted interest in poverty faded fast

The list of examples is exceedingly long, but for every Bush commitment to a reasonably progressive goal, there's overwhelming evidence that the president's rhetoric is hollow and meaningless. Kevin Drum had a terrific post about this last month, highlighting the president's alleged concerns about a series of issues (counterproliferation, deficits, democracy promotion) that completely contradict the administration's actions. As Kevin concluded, "It's this simple: these guys say a lot of stuff they don't believe. Their words are largely meaningless."

Let's be sure to add poverty to the list.

Poverty forced its way to the top of President Bush's agenda in the confusing days after Hurricane Katrina battered the Gulf Coast and flooded New Orleans. Confronted with one of the most pressing political crises of his presidency, Bush, who in the past had faced withering criticism for speaking little about the poor, said the nation has a solemn duty to help them.

(snipping)

Of course, that was nearly a year ago. "Bold action" turned into "timid indifference." The president not only didn't follow through on his rhetorical commitments; he doesn't even offer any more rhetoric. As the WaPo noted, Bush doesn't even mention poverty anymore. There's been plenty of talk about tax cuts for people who don't need them, but discussions of poverty were used just long enough to stop the political bleeding after he and his administration dramatically bungled the Katrina crisis... MORE

From: http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0209-26.htm
Published on Wednesday, February 9, 2005 by the Los Angeles Times
Bush's Budget Transforms the War on Poverty Into a War on the Poor
by Eric Garcetti

President Bush refers to himself as a wartime president, and he has shown resolve not to back down on the battlefield. But the budget he released this week waves a flag of surrender in another war, the 40-year "war on poverty."

The budget announces cuts of 28% — or $1.4 billion — from our arsenal of critical social programs. The largest and most vital to Los Angeles is the Community Development Block Grant. As more cities draw on poverty-fighting grants each year, Los Angeles' allocation has steadily decreased, from $88.6 million in 2003 to $82.7 million this year. Under the proposed cuts, our allocation would plummet by at least $15 million.

Alongside previously proposed cuts to Section 8 housing assistance, these reductions send a stark message to the country's poor, its elderly and its urban youth: You're no longer our problem.

In Los Angeles, these grants pay for after-school programs, home repairs for the elderly in blighted neighborhoods and intervention programs for youth on the brink of joining or already in gangs. They spur economic development projects and fund outreach to the homeless.

Now the president wants to cut these groups off from the prospects of economic recovery. That represents a radical departure from a nation's commitment to its most vulnerable citizens.... MORE

From: http://www.thenation.com/doc/20030818/lieberman
article | posted July 31, 2003 (August 18, 2003 issue)
Hungry in America
Trudy Lieberman

I have no heart for somebody who starves his folks. --George W. Bush discussing North Korean leader Kim Jong Il and US food donations on CNN (January 2, 2003)

Ellen Spearman lives in a trailer at the edge of Morrill, Nebraska, a tiny dusty town near the Wyoming state line. A few years ago she was a member of the working poor, earning $9.10 an hour at a local energy company. Then she got sick and had four surgeries for what turned out to be a benign facial tumor. New owners took over the company and told her she was a medical liability and could not work full time with benefits. For a while she worked part time without benefits until the company eliminated her position. So the 49-year-old single mother of five, with two teenage boys still at home, now lives on $21,300 a year from Social Security disability, child support and payments from the company's long-term disability policy she got as a benefit when she was first hired. That's about $6,000 above the federal poverty level, and too high to qualify for food stamps. But it is not enough to feed her family.

Food is the expendable item in a poor person's budget. With the need to pay for gasoline, car insurance, trailer rent, clothes, medicine and utilities, and to make payments on a car loan and $10,000 in medical bills, Spearman says three meals a day "take a back seat." She says she and her family eat a lot of rice with biscuits and gravy. Their diet is more interesting only when a local supermarket sells eight pieces of chicken for $3.99 or chuck roast for $1.49 a pound. "This country doesn't want to admit there's poverty," she says. "We can feed the world but not our own." MORE

From http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/ArmsTrade/Spend...
U.S. Military Spending
The United States, being the most formidable military power, it is worth looking at their spending.


The U.S. military budget request by the Bush Administration for Fiscal Year 2007 is $462.7 billion. (This includes the Defense Department budget, funding for the Department of Energy (which includes nuclear weapons) and “other” which the source does not define. It does not include other items such as money for the Afghan and Iraq wars—$50 billion for Fiscal Year 2007 and an extra $70 billion for FY 2006, on top of the $50 billion approved by Congress.)

For Fiscal Year 2006 it was $441.6 billion
For Fiscal Year 2005 it was $420.7 billion
For Fiscal Year 2004 it was $399.1 billion .
For Fiscal Year 2003 it was $396.1 billion.
For Fiscal Year 2002 it was $343.2 billion.
For Fiscal Year 2001 it was $305 billion. And Congress had increased that budget request to $310 billion.
This was up from approximately $288.8 billion, in 2000.

From http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2...
Deep cuts sought for social programs
$2.77 trillion plan boosts military
By Rick Klein, Globe Staff | February 7, 2006

WASHINGTON -- President Bush yesterday unveiled a $2.77 trillion spending plan for the next fiscal year that would slash healthcare and education spending, and that would enact deep cuts to scores of other federal programs, while boosting the military budget and making permanent a series of tax cuts that Congress has passed in recent years.

The budget would shave $35.9 billion over five years from Medicare, the politically sensitive healthcare program for the elderly. The Medicare cuts, along with a $4.5 billion reduction in the Medicaid budget, are part of $65.2 billion in savings culled from entitlement programs, the fastest-growing part of the federal budget. By law, the government is required to spend money on those programs, like Medicare, to cover those who are eligible.

Bush also has proposed saving $14.7 billion by eliminating or significantly scaling back 141 government programs, including antidrug efforts in schools, food stamps, vocational education, and housing benefits for the elderly and the disabled.

(snipping)

The Department of Education's spending on basic programs would fall by $2.1 billion, or 3.8 percent, and the president would save about $3.5 billion by cutting a range of programs designed to promote the arts, technology, and after-school programs. Meanwhile, federally based programs to help pay for higher education would take significant hits: The Perkins Loan program would be eliminated, and Pell grant funding for college students would drop by $4.6 billion.

(snipping)

The Department of Defense would get the biggest funding increase; Bush has asked for a record $439.3 billion budget -- 7 percent more than this year, and 48 percent above the level of spending in 2001. In addition, Bush is seeking $50 billion to pay for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan in 2007, along with nearly $2 billion more in assistance programs for the two nations.

On taxes, the president wants Congress to make permanent a series of reductions to taxes on income, capital gains, dividends, and estates of the deceased that were passed in 2001 and 2003. Those cuts are scheduled to expire between now and 2010.... MORE

Thursday, November 03, 2005
Republicans plan to cut 40,000 kids from school lunch program to pay for ANOTHER tax cut in the next month
by Chris in Paris - 11/03/2005 01:27:00 PM

They're asking the poor to suck it up and do without because of those critical tax cuts for the wealthy, corporate welfare and a failing war of convenience are more important than food for the poor. How long before they change the child labor laws so the kids can go out and work for their food? Nice compassion and isn't it great to see that we're all in this together?

Don't believe me, read the article. The Republicans are planning on ANOTHER TAX cut in the next few weeks that will cost even MORE than the cuts to the poor and elderly that they're making today: But some Republicans worry that social service cuts, though relatively small, might have outsized political ramifications, especially when Republicans move in the coming weeks to cut taxes for the fifth time in as many years. Those tax cuts, totaling $70 billion over five years, would more than offset the deficit reduction that would result from the budget cuts.

More details on the planned Republican attack on the poor, the elderly and children... (long article) http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/11/republicans-pla...

From: http://www.seniorjournal.com/NEWS/Nutrition-Vitamins/6-...
Staggering Reality of Senior Hunger Cited by Meals On Wheels
One-Fourth of U.S. adults don't think hunger is a very big problem for seniors

March 1, 2006 - Today, more than three quarters of a million American senior citizens over 65 and living alone have difficulty providing themselves with a steady supply of food and experience some degree of hunger, according to the Meals On Wheels Association. Hunger can strike at any age, but many people are not aware of the devastating effects it has on our senior citizens, says MOWAA in kicking off March For Meals, the fifth annual nationwide public awareness and fundraising campaign...

(snipping)
"The United States is the only developed country with such a serious hunger problem," states Dr. J. Larry Brown, director of the Center on Hunger and Poverty at Brandeis University. "Ensuring adequate food and nutrition is essential to the prevention of chronic disease and disease-related disabilities among seniors. As the number of elderly Americans grows, this problem will continue to plague our country unless we take corrective action now."

Common Misconceptions about Senior Hunger in the U.S.

Meals On Wheels programs across the U.S. deliver more than 1 million meals each day to senior citizens and other homebound individuals. However, MOWAA estimates that 2 million additional meals are required to meet the growing demand for nutrition services.

A recent national survey shows that 58 percent of U.S. adults wrongly assume that most senior citizens who request food from senior nutrition programs receive it. The fact is: four out of 10 nutrition programs that feed the elderly, such as Meals On Wheels, have waiting lists for nutrition services due to lack of awareness, funding, and/or volunteers. As grim as that statistic is, it clearly shows the current unmet need amongst the senior population, the association says.

The survey also demonstrates that 24 percent of U.S. adults do not think hunger is a very big problem for seniors and four in five U.S. adults (80 percent) believe that hunger among senior citizens is most often caused by poverty.

(snipping)
Senior Hunger: A Life-Threatening Disease

Seniors who experience hunger are at risk for serious health problems. Hunger can be life-threatening by increasing the risk for stroke, prolonging recovery from illness, extending hospital stays, limiting the effects of prescription drugs, decreasing resistance to infection, and even increasing the occurrence of depression and isolation.

The majority of U.S. adults (71 percent) do not believe that they or their loved ones will ever experience some degree of hunger that will affect their health. However, with the first wave of baby boomers turning 65 in the next decade, there is certainly a chance that many older Americans could be affected by hunger in the future unless steps are taken to end this significant societal problem...

MORE

Other links:
Urban Institute: Hunger and Food Insecurity Among the Elderly
http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/11/republicans-pla...

America's Second Harvest: Senior Hunger
http://www.secondharvest.org/learn_about_hunger/senior_...

A helpful link: http://www.seniorjournal.com/NEWS/Nutrition-Vitamins/5-...

And some more links
http://www.alternet.org/envirohealth/20726 /
http://mmondlin.home.mindspring.com/No-Child-Hungry-MM....
http://larryjamesurbandaily.blogspot.com/2005/06/workin...
http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0603-03.htm

Additional links:
http://www.warresisters.org/piechart.htm (how the federal budget is allocated)
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. GREAT reply.
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ERF Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. Thanks, I appreciate you taking the time to do that.
I don't and never did doubt that poverty is increasing. I have read the statistics myself. However, it is good practice to back up what one is saying when make generalities like "poverty is increasing".

Also, I still stand firmly by that the WOT has nothing directly to do with it. I only write that because it is the post to which you replied.
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. If you stand by this claim...
"Also, I still stand firmly by that the WOT has nothing directly to do with it. I only write that because it is the post to which you replied," then you have not studied the links I provided. Of course, since I provided so many I'm sure you haven't had the time to peruse them all, which is understandable. The basic principle is this: when you have to accomodate huge increases in military spending, those monies have to have to come from somewhere. Under the Bush administration, huge chunks of that money has come in the form of deep cuts in social programs.
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ERF Donating Member (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #35
37. No, the deep cuts in the social programs are being used
to pay for the tax cuts.

The tax cuts are what has caused the deficit.


To date the WOT has cost somewhere around $400 billion.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/War-on-Terror/Cost-of-war-set-to-top-390bn/2005/01/26/1106415662315.html

I will overestimate figures for your benefit, however.

That figure above is for the 5 years since Sept. 11. So let's assume about $80 billion per annum.

Now let's add that to the military budget which has risen from about 310 to a projected 450 billion in 2007: http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/ArmsTrade/Spending.asp

But for the sake of argument, let's assume a constant average of 420 billion.

Add that to the additional $80 billion and we get $500 billion /annum (a signficant overestimate, but why not).

The extra WOT of $80 billion is 0.6% of a $12.41 trillion economy
http://www.answers.com/topic/economy-of-the-united-states

And $500 billion is 4% of GDP.


If you take the numbers forward through 2010 and then compare them with the Bush tax cuts, you will see that the tax cuts far, far outweigh the cost of the military.
http://www.ctj.org/html/gwb0602.htm

Enjoy.
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. To review your figures...
Edited on Tue Aug-15-06 09:49 AM by theHandpuppet
1) First of all is this one, which is an excerpt from the source you provided:

"If approved by Congress, the cost of the wars in Iraq - in which the bulk of the money has been spent - and Afghanistan, will exceed $US300 billion ($A390 billion) so far and more than $US100 billion for 2005. Congress agreed to another $US25 billion in new funding late last year. "

Those are the figures through 2005. It is not, as you contend, "for the 5 years since Sept. 11." They do not include other costs, such as monies for the "Dept of Homeland Security", plus other hidden costs which are discussed here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1681119,00.html and here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11880954/ and here: http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0110/dailyUpdate.html and here: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/26/AR2006042601601.html and here: http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:qR5dPsx2xfEJ:www2.gsb.columbia.edu/faculty/jstiglitz/cost_of_war_in_iraq.pdf+cost+of+the+war+in+Iraq&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=9&client=safari and here: http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-bilmes17jan17,0,7038018.story?coll=la-news-comment-opinions among many others.

Here is a running total of the cost of the Iraq war, with accompanying link to the monies spent on social programs: http://nationalpriorities.org/index.php?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=182

2) It is a tricky game to use the GDP as an accurate measure of defense spending. I refer you to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States

According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, in 2003 the United States spent approximately 47% of the world's total military spending of US$956 billion.

While the overall U.S. military budget has risen over time, as a percentage of its GDP, the United states spends 4% on military. This compares higher than France's 2.6%, and lower than Saudi Arabia's 10%.<2> This is historically fairly low for the United States. While the spending budget has been slowly rising, the spending rate has been in a slow decline since peaking in 1944 at 37.8% of GDP. Even during the peak of the Vietnam War the percentage reached a high of 9.4% in 1968.<3>

Yet some point out that to compare government spending on the military to the total sum of all goods and services produced by the national economy in a year (the GDP) is purposely misleading, since the U.S. GDP has dramatically risen over time, and therefore the military budget can still go up, while simultaneously demanding a smaller percentage of the GDP. For example, according to the Center for Defense Information, the US outlays for defense as a percentage of federal discretionary spending, has from Fiscal Year 2003 consumed more than half (50.5%) of all such funding and is steadily rising.<4>

Finally, it must be stressed that the recent invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan are funded outside the Federal Budget (i.e. are paid for through supplementary spending bills) and are therefore external to the military budget figures listed above. In addition, the United States has long had a history of black budget military spending which is not listed as Federal spending and is not included in published military spending figures. Thus, the true amount spent by the United States on military spending is much higher than the figures maintained in the Federal Budget.... MORE

3) You wrote: "No, the deep cuts in the social programs are being used to pay for the tax cuts." Regarding federal budget monies redirected to the WOT I said (and I quote), "huge chunks of that money have come in the form of deep cuts in social programs." I did NOT say that cuts in social programs alone are funding this WOT and indeed, tax cuts for the rich are also cutting into the budgets for social programs. This is not an either/or situation. I neither support the war in Iraq nor tax cuts for wealthiest Americans.

4) Hopefully this brings us back to the original discussion on the rise of poverty and hunger in the United States and what has led us to this sorry state under the Bushreich.
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #33
36. BTW, watch those contradictions
Edited on Tue Aug-15-06 08:45 AM by theHandpuppet
I must say that I found this statement of yours contradictory: "I don't and never did doubt that poverty is increasing. I have read the statistics myself," when a few posts earlier you said, "I haven't honestly seen statistics that show me poverty is increasing. Maybe you can point me to it, or I am misunderstanding your definition of poverty."

If you want to get into a debate on poverty, hunger and homelessness in America, just a word or two of advice... this is one hard-headed hillbilly who doesn't mess around.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 10:46 AM
Response to Reply #36
41. now now now, not nice to point out hypocracies
search has been my friend before and is now also.
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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #28
42. thanks for this reply, very good
:thumbsup:
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FlavaKreemSnak Donating Member (288 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 11:42 AM
Response to Reply #28
46. Thanks theHanduppet. I knew it was a touchy subject

I guess I didn't realize how touchy, though. But I win, because you posted this huge load of stuff I can read to be more informed. :) And I also learned that the things that I might think are just obvious are really controversial to other people.
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. You're very welcome
I'd also like to take this opportunity to invite all DUers to visit the Poverty Forum where we have many informative discussions on hunger, poverty and homelessness in America.

Be well!
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entanglement Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #28
53. Thanks a lot, handpuppet
That should convince the skeptics
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davekriss Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #21
43. I feel like Donald Sutherland at the end of...
...Invasion of the Body Snatchers, pointing at you, ERF.

"The WOT is, by historical standards, very inexpensive." And you sir are apparently ill informed. If you include just Iraq (and the criminal regime in the White House reminds us every day that the illegal invasion of Iraq is central to the War on Terror), then the WOT is projected to cost several multiples more than Vietnam and is closing in on the total cost of WWII.

Here's evidence from the NYTimes:



Here's more, this from commondreams: http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0128-33.htm

From the commondreams article,

    Americans were made to believe we could defuse the most dangerous nation on earth in a bargain-basement rout. When former White House economic adviser Lawrence Lindsay dared to suggest that an invasion would cost between $100 billion and $200 billion, White House budget director Mitch Daniels popped up to say the estimate was "very, very high."

    Daniels gave a cost of between $50 billion and $60 billion. Lindsay's estimate was also attacked by former treasury secretary Paul O'Neill who said, "I don't know what Larry was thinking."

    <snip>

    With the predictions of a protracted occupation becoming more solid by the day, comparisons of Iraq with the costliest war in American history are no longer out of the question.

    In today's dollars, World War II cost $2.9 trillion. Yale economist William Nordhaus predicted a long conflict in Iraq might cost up to $1.9 trillion. Economist Warwick McKibbin, a board member of the Australian central bank, said a conflict lasting to 2010 could cost more than $3.5 trillion.
So what was sold as a cake walk is estimated to cost nearly 4 times more than Vietnam and 66% the cost of WWII. ERF, I'd like you to define what you mean, then, by "inexpensive" -- the only other group using what you must mean are the propagandists in the White House. So what does that make you?


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catmandu57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #43
44. At the risk of being deleted
After all the well thought out, documented response to our low post friend, I have come to the conclusion that he/she is someone you could pound over the head with the facts and do no more than waste your time and effort, once again my ignore list has grown.
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KansDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
48. So where are the "faith-based" charities?
You know, the ones that were suppose to provide food, shelter, and basic needs for those who are homeless or living in poverty? The ones that were suppose to do such a better job than government? Where are they now...?

They sure lined up at the trough when Bush rang the bell. Where are they now?
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
49. It's only going to get worse. Just with healthcare coverage.
How long before Americans start begging to be killed by a terrorist? :cry:

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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. Here's a sad fact....
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
52. This thread deserves more recommendations!
Just sayin'.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
56. Dropped off three bags at the Food Bank yesterday
I had my kids help me, and now they want to go back (the very nice receptionist gave up a tour of the warehouse and showed them the forklift).

I'm going to start buying extra groceries every time just for that. Our economy's in the toilet here in Battle Creek, and I am worried for the winter--it feels like it'll be colder than last year deep in my bones.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #56
58. Taking a load of clothes this weekend. Guess they can't eat them but
maybe someone can use them.
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knitter4democracy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. Cold weather's coming--they'll need the clothes.
That, and work clothes are always at a premium.
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