Do you feel the ban on gays in the U.S. military SHOULD be changed?

[cboy4]

There's a push right now to try to eliminate Don't Ask Don't Tell.

I don't understand the reason(s) for keeping qualified gay and lesbian people out.

They're booting linguists who speak Arabic and Farsi - even though there's a tremendous need .

Please try to help me understand. Cuz to me, there's no justification.

Write a little something with your vote if you would.

[SKKY]

1. As a veteran currently on active duty, I don't have a problem with it...

...and I've served with many "gay" service memebers. However, I know many, many people
who have a problem with it. A big problem with it. They're the ones that will keep
this from happening.2

[cboy4]

2. That's cool to hear about your viewpoint. But why is it that "many, many"

of your colleagues have a problem with it?

[SKKY]

11. Well, my philosophy on this is not a popular one, nor one that...

...is easily digested for most, but here goes. I personally think we're just a bit too early in this
"gay rights" issue- it's going to take more time. Those of us who support it, obviously we get it, hence
why we're called "progressives". But, a lot simply don't see it that way. I've often equated this issue
to the civil right movement and I think they parallel each other in many ways.

As far as the military goes. It's still very much a bastion for conservative values, so naturally, any
entity that votes 80% republican isn't going to be supportive of gay rights. It's just the nature of
the beast. Although, I've yet to meet someone who didn't openly admit that they've served with gay
people before.

[cboy4]

17. We all have our own values, but that doesn't mean we should be able to

pick and choose who we want/get to work with at the office.

In fact, probably 99% of society doesn't.

Should atheist Sally not be allowed to work at the local Kinko's because 90% of the employees there are Christians?

Should John Smith not be allowed to race NASCAR because a majority of the drivers and fans are republicans?

I wonder how these "80% republican" soldiers you describe would feel if gay people had the ability to funnel our tax dollars toward other causes, as opposed to buying them body armor or other supplies they need to survive!!?

I mean, why the hell should I really give a crap about them?

Incidentally, I do. But don't you think fair is fair?

Anyway, thanks for your disturbing inside information.....and stay safe.

[Skittles]

8. isn't it tiresome, always having to cater to the bigots?

f***ing cowards, that's what they are. The people responding GAYS SHOULD NOT SERVE in this thread, how much you want to bet not only did they not serve their country, they won't explain themselves in this thread? Fucking COWARDS.

[Skittles]

3. what kind of asswipes think gays should not serve ?

out yourselves you g.d. morons

[cboy4]

4. !

:loveya:

[Skittles]

6. I'm a veteran, I served with plenty of gay folk

this sort of ignorance offends me greatly

[im10ashus]

117. I am gay and served proudly.

What a bunch of BS that "liberals" are still threatened by this. 15 DUers, eh? Pansies with a bit of rusty wheel, I suspect.

[Nicole]

7. The kind that won't out themselves n/t

[Skittles]

9. see response #8

I agree, absolutely - they are COWARDS

[Nicole]

10. Very well said

Here & at #8.

[Skittles]

13. I'm sick of it Nicole, just sick of it

it just boggles my mind that these freaks actually exist

[Nicole]

15. I'm sick of it too

I live in Oklahoma so I do see it. However I'm surprised they exist here on DU.

[orleans]

103. apparently du also has a big tent

(and imo of course they should be allowed to serve in the military, or have any other job they want to have. i'm a believer in equal rights)

[cboy4]

104. No tent should be big enough to allow room for bigotry and the opposition

human/civil/equal rights - - - especially at a progressive, intelligent community like DU.

In any case, I'm glad to hear your position.

[theHandpuppet]

20. Yeah, I want to hear from those folks

To those who voted that gays should not be allowed to serve, let's hear from you. I want to hear why you support bigotry and discrmination.

[Skittles]

21. I'm still waiting

fucking COWARDS

[foreigncorrespondent]

28. Skittles...

...something tells me you will be waiting for a loong time. They love hiding themselves don't they?

[LostinVA]

36. I agree -- freaking cowardly homophobes

Just like those asses who wear sheets to cover their identity. If you're so damn proud of your beliefs, then unmask yourselves.

[Kerrytravelers]

42. They're easy to out.

Try this site; www.freerepublic.com They come over here and vote. Them and their little bigoted friends. Who the hell would care someone's sexuality? :shrug:

[Skittles]

57. the freak republic is FILLED with cowards

jeez, they are oh so fast to quote Jesus and wrap themselves in the flag but simply explaining their bigotry seems to be beyond them - yo trolls YOU ARE FUCKING COWARDS

[Jed Dilligan]

46. Quite a poll... almost 10% trolls! nt

[Nicole]

5. Gays SHOULD be allowed to serve but.....

If I was gay I wouldn't want to serve a country that didn't grant me basic civil rights.

[cboy4]

12. I totally understand you point. However, it's not just signing up to go to

war to serve America.

If I wanted to join the California National Guard to help out with all of the many needs that arise during the many disasters in my state, I'd be turned away.

I'm not allowed to help rescue flood victims from their roof-tops, or help sift through the rubble of an earthquake for trapped civilians.

I'm not allowed to help out with security to protect businesses from looters, etc.

So unfair.

But thanks for your thoughts Nicole :)

[Nicole]

14. You're a much better person than I am

I'm not sure I could do any of that for the country that discriminated against me.
I would definitely still help people, I would just do it through civilian channels.

However I get where you're coming from too. I know that as a member of the service you would be able to do much more than serve in war. Bless you for wanting to. Again, you're a much better person than I am. :)

[cboy4]

18. Nope....I'm not better than you :)

But thanks.

Your points are well taken!

[Jamastiene]

16. I agree with your point, but...

lately Chimpy has been sending the National Guard over to fight in his bloody wars. I wouldn't want you sent into combat if you didn't want to go.

[cboy4]

19. I know......even though you and I can't understand why anyone in their

right mind would want to serve under this war criminal in the White House......go figure, there are gay people who do want to be top gun National Guard fighter pilots and army doctors and rescue swimmers.

It's sad they can only dream about it. :(

[weeksbr1]

23. If you really want them to respond...

which incidentally, I don't think you do, you should wait until after they do so before calling them biggots. After they respond... that's when you nail them. ;)

[cboy4]

24. Why don't you think I want them to respond? And I've not called any

person a bigot, even though the day is way early.

[Jamastiene]

25. Huh?

:wtf:

The first time the word was uttered on this page was when you said it. I searched for it, misspelling it like you did, and it came up to you first. I did a second search, spelling it correctly, and it came up to the reply saying the truth, which is that is hasn't been said until you said it. So...I'm just saying. What gives? :shrug:

[LostinVA]

38. I do want them to respond -=- and they are bigots if they voted this way

It's immoral, unethical, and illegal under Constitutional law.

I, personally, am tired of being demonized and vilified just so some jerk-off BIGOTS and bullies can have someone as a punching bag.

[Skittles]

59. we already knew there was never a chance the little bastards would emerge

they hide under rocks like the fucking cowards they are

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

74. So why don't you want gays in the military?

By the way, spell check is fast, free, easy and your friend. It's 'bigots,' not 'biggots.' It's a simple word to spell.

[guinivere]

91. Exactly.

Anyone that wants to serve, should be able to. To me, this goes hand in hand with the marriage issue.

I will never understand homophobes.

[xchrom]

22. 3 voted against.

ah well.

what can you say that skittles didn't say better?

[Warren Stupidity]

26. 5 unclear on the concept of human rights and equality.

Will any of them defend their position?

[foreigncorrespondent]

27. Of course not!

Easy to hide behind the veil of a poll while pretending to be our "friends" to our face!

Gutless idiots the lot of them!

[The Backlash Cometh]

29. Personally, I don't see why they can't serve, but I do have a question

for gays and lesbians. From your point of view, what do you feel about two soldiers of the same sex having a relationship while serving in the military from the same platoon? For example, does it affect your performance as a soldier if you have someone in the same platoon which you may have stronger feelings for than the other soldiers? If it involves a higher ranking officer, does it cause special problems? What is the rule for heterosexuals?

We always hear the side of the military, but I've never heard the other side. How do these kinds of relationships interfere or improve the platoon's mission?

[mitchtv]

63. There are fraternizing rules for superior officers

Misbehavior should continue to be banned
it's real simple. Do your job, follow the rules

[Breeze54]

75. Two in my son's company got married as

they were both deployng to Iraq...at the same time! They all served together there
and they all came home together. I didn't hear anything from my son that it caused
any problems at all. The wedding is at the end of this video. I couldn't find a stillshot.
Music included. WMV High Speed Connection Needed.
Deploying to Iraq

ps. All were stop lossed. :-(

[The Backlash Cometh]

84. Sure doesn't make sense why they'd allow heterosexuals to

"co-mingle", but not homosexuals.

The only other proviso I'd put is that I would expect that the same laws that apply to heterosexuals should also apply to homosexuals. For example, if it's inappropriate for a heterosexual to push themselves on a member of the other sex, and indeed, if it would be deemed harrassment, then the same should apply to homosexuals who may do the same to members of their own sex.

The part I'm not sure about involves showering. If you're going to apply the same rules to every soldier, then I have to ask if men and women shower together in the barracks? If not, then my "same rule" litmus test fails.

[Breeze54]

102. I think it should be equal.

For all! But as far as showers, I'm pretty sure those are separate.
I think it should be separate; a women's room and a men's room.
I don't know if those two got to 'stay' together, as in sleeping arrangements.
But I'm sure, if their work schedules allowed, they spent time together!
I don't think anybody should be pushing themselves on anybody, anyway.
That is harrasment and there have been rapes of soldiers in Iraq.
That's a big no-no in the military code, as I'm sure you know.

[donheld]

113. No different than I feel about 2 soldiers of opposite sex

having a relationship while serving in the military...:grr:

[AndyA]

30. The hypocritical line of reason.

The right wingers don't want to work with gays because they are afraid of what? That they might expose their private parts to - *GASP* - a gay man or woman? Are they willing to die because someone isn't available to cover them just so they don't have to serve with a gay person?

And they've got to keep them from getting married, and having the same benefits everyone else has. That's discrimination.

Yet they'll serve with a divorced parent, who has ripped apart their family and forces the kids to bounce back and forth between parents because they just couldn't keep their vows. But of course, that doesn't hurt the "sanctity" of marriage one bit, whereas allowing gays to marry would. BULLSHIT!

These people are dangerous. They are willing to take away rights from others, but will not tolerate giving up anything themselves. And they do it under the label of Christian. How nice. Boy, have they got some surprises coming when they meet their maker. They should know better if they truly are Christians.

[bigwillq]

31. If they want to serve,

let them.

I feel it would be discrimination if they weren't allowed to serve.

[opihimoimoi]

32. If there is a Draft reinstituted, America will be swamped in gays

The Draft Boards will have to question all men who dress up Gay to see which ones are and which ones are fake.

Unless we allow them in the Forces...this is gona happen.

[Kingshakabobo]

83. It will, for the most part, be easy to tell who the fakes are.......

Check their voter registrations for an "R"

Most of the gay people I know would do their duty and serve. The pudgy mama's boys basement dweller chicken-shit freepers will be the first ones to don the pink dress as an excuse to weasel. Yellow elephants.

BTW, none of the gay men I know wear drag but I just KNOW the freepers would dress up due to their stereotyping and ignorance(not to mention their secret desire to wear their mama's panties).

[opihimoimoi]

107. LOL,,,,,Yellow Elephants indeed....

[cboy4]

111. LOL!!! Good point

[BOSSHOG]

33. IF GAYS CAN'T MARRY OR JOIN THE MILITARY

WHY THE HELL SHOULD THEY PAY TAXES? Please would somebody who doesn't want gays to join the military as indicated by some votes please share with this veteran your view of equal protection under the law.

[libnnc]

37. Yet another example of why I LOVE THE BOSS

:toast:

[BOSSHOG]

45. And I love you Dear

I served with many great Sailors and many of them were gay. They did their jobs proudly and professionally and yet had to work extra hard to keep their lives below radar. That makes absolutely no sense to me. And I have to chuckle at the notion that "straight" guys would rather shower with other straight guys.

[guinivere]

95. I agree. My dear friend Em thinks it's funny that some

straight folks think that they are soooo freaking appealing that a gay person would be all up on 'em. It's not true at all.

[cboy4]

51. Exactly! I'm supposed to pay taxes to pay for a new Humvee that

I'm not allowed to ride in because I'm gay?

Outrageous.

Thanks for a post well said, BOSSHOG!!

[Arkansas Granny]

34. The ban on gays in the military is just ridiculous. My bet is that

gays have always served in the military and just didn't get outed during their service. As long as a person can accept military discipline and perform his/her duties as required, their sexual orientation shouldn't enter into the discussion of their fitness for military service. No matter how you look at it, excluding gays from the military is discrimination.

[BlooInBloo]

35. lol! Like THAT'S ever stopped America before!

[LincolnMcGrath]

39. We all know who the 9 voters are.

Intolerant, belligerent, Scared to Death of what the GOP might think, Dead Enders telling the majority of DUers that they are not Mainstream, think about the usual suspects who consistently display that type of behavior.

You don't really expect these go-along get-along spineless boobs to go to battle over this issue do you?


pfft :spray: That would require intestinal fortitude, something these folks lack.

[cboy4]

48. Thanks Lincoln for writing! Always wonderful to hear from a

fellow truthseeker! :hi:

[zcflint09]

40. Republican arguments are bullshit

And I think it's hilarious that even 9 people on DU believe the kool-aid that the GOP sends over to them about "DADT". All the blubber about "social cohesion" and "possible violence" is code-word for bigotry. Government sponsored bigotry. And because the US government continues this discriminatory policy, it gives the bigots in the US military continued reason to run around spouting thier backwards BS.

It's amazing that a semi-theocratic state like Israel will allow homosexuals to serve in the military but the US can't let them do that. What a pitiful failure of a country.

[TahitiNut]

41. EVERYONE should serve.

Hell, there've been gays in the military forever. As a vet, I can say without a doubt that sexual orientation has NOTHING to do with fitness to serve or unit morale or anything else.

[madokie]

43. I personally think that gay people should be given the same rights

as every one. They are men and women just like the rest of us with the same cares, wants and needs. Not to mention love, compassion or commitment. fuck a bunch of gay hating

[ismnotwasm]

44. There is no reason Gays shouldn't be allowed to serve

None.

The whole situation is beyond ridiculous. Gays have always been in the military. Why we continue to cater to homophobic assholes is beyond me. Why it's even an issue is beyond me. Evidently it needs to be explained that being gay is not an just as act of sex. Goddam.


My daughter served for nearly 9 years and never had a problem with the gays in the military. In fact she had more of a problem with HETEROSEXUAL males and-- sometimes females--being inappropriate, or just plain shitheads.

She tells stories of very racist white young men being thrown together with the black young men in the military. There is no time or room for fucked up attitudes like that. She watched the generational, ingrained racism fade into the background as camaraderie and understanding between human beings developed in her unit.

The same thing would happen with Gays. Does anyone care who someone is with, or what color they are if they are going to be the one to save thier ass? Fuck no. Not when it gets down to life and death, not when they're going through an experience together that no one else is going to understand.
It's a bullshit destructive attitude that the world needed to outgrow yesterday. God some people are dumbassess.

[cboy4]

47. Huh come those who want gays BANNED can't even type a sentence about

why you think they should be?

Are you embarrassed that you feel this way?

Come on, participate! . . . this is what DU is all about, right?

[sandnsea]

56. Because maybe there AREN'T ANY

And somebody just likes to create antagonistic situations so that they can post slanderous attacks at people behind their backs.

[cboy4]

58. I think it's just the Ku Klux Klan syndrome.

Hate them niggers and Jews and fags . . . but yet are too cowardly to show their faces from behind those fashionable white hoods.

[sandnsea]

62. Nah,

people on DU tend to say exactly what's on their mind. If anybody thought gays shouldn't serve, at least one would say why. I suspect it's pot stirrers, I recognize a few in this thread.

[cboy4]

64. Oh I don't know.....It wouldn't surprise me that in a community as large

ours here at DU, there are bigots who don't like gays, who wouldn't really want black people living next door to them, who can't stand Latinos speaking Spanish while walking around Disneyland...THIS IS MERIKA DAMMIT, SPEAK ENGLISH!!

Who would want to publicly admit this at DU?

They would be shunned by us, and they might even be banned depending on what exactly they said.

But I agree with you that there are a lot of "pot stirrers" out there.

[Warren DeMontague]

49. Of course they should be allowed to serve. But why in God's name would

they want to right now???

[cboy4]

53. I would hope nobody would want sign up to participate in Bush's

war crimes, but yah know.........there are gays who want to fly F-16 fighter planes and be army doctors, and they should be allowed that chance. :)

[Warren DeMontague]

54. Absolutely.

It's ridiculous discrimination.

[MrSlayer]

50. They should be allowed to serve but they shouldn't do it.

Why should someone fight and die for a country that holds them to be second class citizens without equal rights? I certainly wouldn't.

[cboy4]

55. Your point is very well taken. One of the things I said earlier is that

even if I wanted to sign up for the Calif. National Guard to help with a natural disaster in my state, I'd be turned away.

That is so unfair.

I can help rescue people from rooftops and dig people from the rubble of earthquakes just as well, if not better than a straight guardsman/woman

But I agree with you in principle....I'd end up in Iraq anyway if I signed up!

[SaveElmer]

52. Yep...of course they should be...

Doesn't require a whole lot of thought!

[cboy4]

60. Apparently it does require too much thought to explain why gays should

be banned, because so far.....NOT ONE PERSON out of the hand-full who've voted 'no" will explain why.

But thanks for your support SaveElmer! :thumbsup: :)

[One_Life_To_Give]

70. Seriously, I can think of two reasons

1) We don't put boys and girls into the showers together. By extension is that what happens when you put gay people into the showers together.
Forget that experience elsewhere has shown nothing happens in all the current locations outside the military. As well as Norway IIRC, where boys and girls do share the shower and nothing happens.
(I didn't say it was a good reason. Just what conservatives will claim.)

2) Historically imagery associated with training. The "Don't be Effeminate (fag) soldier" Such imagery/words were widely used to evoke a response of making soldiers aggressive, "masculine" and to dehumanize, degrade potential adversaries as weak, effeminate.

The second issue will be a problem in that this was ingrained into recruits who have not retired. Even if they don't directly endorse the continuation of the practice. The culture will still have some legacy elements for some time.

I think it's the right thing to do, to put gays into the military openly. But it will likely be as ugly as forced integration of African Americans into combat units was. And the strain of the Iraq cluster**** and this might prove to be too much if done at the same time. Then again the quote "Nobody calls you a (N-Word) when your carrying a M-79 Grenade launcher" comes to mind. And it might be best to force it all through at once and let the soldiers come to respect each other under combat conditions inspite of this.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

73. Just to add to what you said...

The only NATO country that currently has a ban on gays is Turkey. England, Canada, etc integrated gays into their military without major issues. Our soldiers are already serving with openly gay servicemembers from our allied countries.

[One_Life_To_Give]

61. Gays should be banned!

They are the most likely to;

Spot the corns on my feet

Notice my smoothly shaved leggs

recognize that this guy is wearing pantyhose under his uniform

:sarcasm:

[cboy4]

66. Oh, nice stereotyping, you jerk

;) Just kidding hehehe

[Rex]

65. Yes, Uncle Sam is ignoring a tremendous amount of talent.

IMO.

[cboy4]

67. Oh, who cares what you think? :-)

You have one of the best "IMO's" here at Democratic Underground, :woohoo:

[Rex]

78. LOL!

Thanks for the ME train! :hi: That's awesome! :bounce: :headbang:

[cboy4]

87. The train is a little gay, but what do you expect?? ;)

You're welcome :hi:

[Nutmegger]

68. I voted yes

Yes, this is, to end discrimination.

[cboy4]

71. You voted "yes" to what?? I don't get it. Sorry if I'm a little slow

this afternoon! :blush:

[devilgrrl]

69. Here's a little something special for the homophobes that say "NO"...

oh... and this too

[Warren Stupidity]

79. Har!

Thanks for that.

[cboy4]

86. That's disgusting!!!

;)

[Breeze54]

72. Imho, there isn't any good reason for them being left out

except that we have a repig controlled congress and the legislation is just sitting there.
I don't think anything will happen to move this ahead until after the Nov. elections.
Provided the Dems take over control!

Military Readiness Enhancement Act of 2005

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:HR01059:@@@P

H.R.1059
Title: To amend title 10, United States Code, to enhance the readiness
of the Armed Forces by replacing the current policy concerning homosexuality
in the Armed Forces, referred to as "Don't Ask, Don't Tell",
with a policy of nondiscrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.
Sponsor: Rep Meehan, Martin T. (introduced 3/2/2005) Cosponsors (118)
Latest Major Action: 3/17/2005 Referred to House subcommittee.
Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on Military Personnel.

[Nickster]

76. Former Army here, never understood throwing out qualified people

simply because they were gay. It's so hard to get good people to serve in the military so throwing them out simply because they're gay is nuts to me. I never ever ever understood hating someone because they are gay. I figured what the heck would it hurt me to have gay people in my unit? I wasn't going to sleep with any of them and I wasn't going to see them sleeping with anyone. Dunno, I always figured that people that hate gays so much are in fact themselves gay. I never heard people discuss graphic sexual things that homosexuals supposedly do as I did from homophobes, almost seemed like they were jealous.

[Skittles]

80. you know it Nickster

we veterans are well aware that military life in not suited for everyone - so those who can adapt, WANT to serve, thrive in the military - they should be allowed to serve

[cboy4]

85. You the man Nickster!!!

Thanks bud

[CrushTheDLC]

77. Alexander the Great was one of the most famous military leaders in history

By most reliable accounts, he was also a flaming queen.

I think Barry Goldwater, former scary edge of right wing conservatism himself, said it best in his later years, when this battle was going on in the Clinton administration.

"The question isn't whether they're gay or straight, but whether they can SHOOT straight!"

[im10ashus]

118. Big fag here.

Served proudly. Expert marksman. They can kiss my nelly ass now, though. So can the 15 DUers who can't identify themselves. Pansies.

[pinto]

81. Of course. The full and equal participation in all aspects

of American citizenship for all American citizens would seem to be a "no brainer".

:shrug:

[greguganus]

82. Where are the DU 13? n/t

[cboy4]

88. Make that 14 as of 5:01 PDT. I think they're trying to organize to stop a

filibuster. :eyes:

[Jamastiene]

106. It's 15 now.

I'm not surprised. I have met up with a few homophobes in the past. I think I have them on ignore now though. }(

[raysr]

89. For their own

safety I think they should stay out. I can't figure why they'd want to go anyway. I got drafted in 1968, I would have NEVER joined. FTA, even today!

[cboy4]

90. Could you explain what you mean that "for their own safety they

should stay out." ??

You mean if I were in the military, my colleagues would attack me?

And BTW.......... I can figure out why "they'd want to go."

I'm one of them.

My dream was to fly choppers. Was.

[raysr]

129. That's right. I feel that

they would. I think the situation is worse now than 40 years ago. The people that call themselves "soldiers' apparently don't have any problem doing anything to anybody. Rape, murder, bank robbery you name it. And with the GOP pushing hatred toward gays as they are now I would think they would be in danger.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

94. Yes, it's safer not to join the military, but somebody has to do it.

Do you just feel no one should join? Or that gays especially shouldn't join?

[raysr]

130. I don't feel anyone should

join for finacial reasons. I despised the Army and I had it very good. I still wouldn't re-enlist for them, not in 1970. You talk about culture shock, basic training is horrible. People who can't get structure in their life and need to have someone else to tell them what to do from day to day do well in the army. Someone who was conscripted against their will is going to have a different slant on the experience that someone who walked in and signed up willingly.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

92. The military needs all the cannon fodder it can get.

The politicians and generals don't give a rip who fills the body bags.

[cboy4]

93. Apparently they do "give a rip," otherwise there would

be no ban.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

96. They'll get over it when they run out of bodies.

Just like they'll get over their love of the "All volunteer" military when they run out volunteers.

[cboy4]

97. Why do you think they're going to run out of bodies? I mean, it's not

like we're in a quagmire in Iraq.

Things are going great.....we have plenty of troops :sarcasm:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

99. Things are going great for the morticians and gravediggers.

Quagmire? Naaah. Just a few diehards from the "failed insurgency" and a bit of minor "sectarian violence".

[Jamastiene]

105. Actually they keep kicking gays who can interpret

Arabic out despite the fact that people with that skill are rare, apparently. So, in reality, they are kicking their own asses by kicking people out just because they are gay.

[greguganus]

98. Do you think the 8% is correct for all DUers across the board? n/t

[ChipperbackDemocrat]

100. In the wars to come...

Your orientation won't matter.

Welcome to the Army, don't matter if you're gay.
Uncle Sam don't give a damn, about in whose bed you lay.
You're needed by your country. America needs your toil.
You can be as queer as you want, AS LONG AS YOU CAPTURE THAT OIL!
--ChipperbackDemocrat, 2006

Stop the Soviet Republicans in 2006 :)

[cboy4]

101. Are you asking me if I think roughly 8 percent of all DUers are

opposed to allowing gays to serve in the U.S. military?

[jmowreader]

108. If this war goes on much longer, the whole MI community will become gay

I don't mean "come out" either. They will "become" gay--it's a pretty simple process; just go to your first sergeant, tell him you're gay and you're gone real quick. You don't even have to BE gay. And you definitely don't have to demonstrate your degree of gayness.

Which is why, within the next 12 months, the ban on gays in the military will be lifted. You just watch. There will be so many people claiming homosexuality, the military won't be able to tell the difference between "authentic" gays and gays just in it for the benefits (you know, a free plane ticket home and not getting killed in Iraq). So...they'll let gay people stay in.

War story follows: I went to a big exercise in Norfolk, VA, a few months after President Clinton was inaugurated. (It was during the time the senator whose name I have forgotten asked one of the gay troops who was sent to testify before Congress if he'd agree to let the military "cure" him.) We had CNN Headline News running in the Atlantic Fleet operations center and some colonel was standing there watching the hearings getting more and more pissed about "cock smokers" and all sorts of other nicknames for gay people. Then he turned to me. "Don't these faggots wanting to be in the army just piss you off?" I told him no. "Sir, I've had gays working for me. They're good soldiers. They come to work every day and do it well, their uniforms look good, their rooms look good, they don't get in trouble. I have no problem with gay soldiers. Straight soldiers are a different story. I've got a whole platoon of them at Fort Drum. They can't make morning PT formation even though the PT field is ten feet from their rooms, they can't search, they can't drive, they can't pass the (Defense Language Proficiency Test), they're horrible MI soldiers. I'd trade all of those people for ten good gay soldiers in a second, and right now I've got thirty troops." He thought that was a very good argument.

[cboy4]

110. Hey bud, thanks for your post.....but most of all, thank you for what you

said to the colonel.

BTW, "Cock Smokers?" :wtf:

It's a shame the I.Q. standards are so low for colonels. Actually, it's scary, frankly. ;)

[jmowreader]

115. Cock smokers and muffler divers...

Yes, he actually called lesbians "muffler divers."

Which sounds very much like something you'd do with a wrench in your hand.

You don't want to correct morans like this...'course, I never saw the asshat after that day.

[Cobalt-60]

109. Ever hear of the Spartans?

It appears they were very friendly between engagements.
Their reputation for warrior prowess and values rings down through the centuries to this day.

[donheld]

112. Looks like 15 asses need kicked

:grr:

[Spider Jerusalem]

114. Of course it should be changed.

It's completely idiotic.

The US military could stand to follow the UK's example (following story is from August of 2005):

The British army regularly attends cultural events and parades in England to drum up support for the military and recruit potential soldiers. This weekend the army decided to take part in another march through the city streets of Manchester with thousands of people watching. Only this time the parade was part of the annual Gay Pride festival, and some of the onlookers were dancing men in makeup dressed in Lycra. There were about a dozen uniformed soldiers participating in the parade and manning a booth to offer recruitment information. The Royal Air Force also took part for their second successive year, but this was the first year that the army has attended. There was no official representation from the Royal Navy, although several parade marchers were dressed in sailors’ uniforms.

Until 2003, all branches of the armed forces in Britain had been allowed by law to dismiss openly homosexual officers. The ban on homosexuals in the general armed forces was lifted five years ago. The Army's Diversity Action and Recruitment Team was largely responsible for the army’s contribution to the festivities. "We don't really care what sexual orientation you are if you want to come and join us in the army," said Logistics Corps warrant officer Lutha Magloire, 39. "The army reflects society and we must recruit from all sections, so if there is prejudice in society it will be in the army also. But the army can only get better the more it represents all the community." The two-mile march, during which soldiers handed out sweets from a decorated float, kicked off a three-day festival celebrating the gay and lesbian lifestyle.

Festival Director Claire Turner told reporters that organizers were delighted the army was coming. "They're showing that they welcome gay people and the Army is something gay people can be interested in." Turner added, "It's an example of the confidence of the RAF that they can have the cockpit of a plane on a float. Last year was a great success for the RAF. "We hope the Army will have more involvement next year and a float as well." Major Glenville Lindsay, of the Royal Artillery, told BBC News that the Army's involvement in the parade was a massive step forward toward acceptance of the gay lifestyle. "It is new, it's different and i think it shows that the Army accepts change and is very progressive, open-minded, embracing diversity, showing a higher degree of tolerance," he said. Lieutenant Colonel Leanda Pitt, Commander Regional Recruiting, North West, echoed the sentiments. "We are delighted to be taking part in Gay Pride this year. As far as the Army is concerned, sexual orientation is a private matter and we are attending to promote the benefits a career in the Army can bring. Over the three days we will be able to reach a large audience and also enjoy the atmosphere that the festival brings to the city."

The Royal Navy issued a statement saying that its decision not to attend was based on the fact that Manchester is not near a naval port, and many Royal Navy service people were out on leave at the time. The festivities were expected to attract at least a quarter million people to the third largest city in Great Britain.

[cboy4]

123. Interesting article my friend. Thank you for sharing it

with everyone! :)

[im10ashus]

116. WOW!

15 people on DU think we shouldn't be able to serve? What a punch of pansies. I served - gay and proudly. Pansies!

[porphyrian]

119. What does sexual orientation have to do with killing and dying...

...for your country?

[cboy4]

120. It's kinda ironic. The wingnuts would love to see gay people dead . . .

You'd think they'd allow gays to serve to put them in harms way (Fallujah, etc.)

[Xenotime]

121. It doesn't matter if you are gay or not...

you get brainwashed with the best of them. Just because you are gay doesn't mean you can't pull a trigger.

[cboy4]

122. 16 no's huh? Hey, that's cool -- but why can't just one...ONE of you

explain your vote?

It's so second grade to hide.

I promise I won't hurt you -- no matter how disappointed I might be in your answer.

I mean, even the K.K.K. offers an explanation about why it hates "fags" and "niggers" and "filthy Jews."

You've gotta at least give them a teeny bit of credit for that.

Well, not really.....but you know what I mean.


BTW - - What an overwhelming amount of support from DU!!

90-plus percent voted "yes" :yourock:

[Bucky]

124. Americans should be allowed in the military (and immigrants too)

I don't care if they're gay. With their current recruiting problems, the army shouldn't either.

[Texasgal]

125. 16 votes

wow...

How horrible.

Fuck you 16!

[wiley]

126. The military should not be allowed to conduct witchhunts,

and anyone who sexually molests, rapes or abuses another soldier is punished,period. The fact that men routinely rape, abuse and otherwise sexually molest women in the military doesn't mean that women should not be allowed to serve (what,unless they never say they are female on or off base?). The issue is how men feel about having "out" men in the unit. If everyone says they are straight, then all sexual activity and intimate bonding becomes an institutional homosexuality thing - not gay sex. This little game of pretending that men are never sexually attracted to each other, if even once or briefly, is the most ridiculous thing. It's the witch hunts and the lack of enforced policy code with regards to certain people and in certain situations that is the problem. All kinds of sex already takes place in the military, anyway. They just choose who they want to persecute and prosecute for it.

It's tragic that the security and defense needs are held hostage and weakened by uptight men who fear 24/7 that their weiners may be seen publically. The same people who take showers in their underwear. Besides, if there were open gays and it was easy to get off, you'd never be able to trade a BJ for supplies.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

127. I'm for a ban on gays in the military.

I'm also for a ban on heterosexuals, bisexuals, transexuals, asexuals, metrosexuals, and everybody else.

Maybe that way this bullshit would stop.

:hi:

[cboy4]

128. LOL.......good point!

:hi: