My plan to succeed (win®) in Iraq.

[Renew Deal]

I seem to be having this discussion a lot. I have come to the conclusion that there are only two ways to finish our involvement in Iraq. Both of them require a plan. Currently, there is no plan. We brag every time there is an election or the death of a high profile enemy. But we don't declare victory and leave. We just stay and slog through. Bush has said that some other president is going to decide when the troops leave. That means that the plan is that there is no plan. So here it is. The only two possible plans as I currently see it.

Plan 1: We fight for Victory®.

Bush makes a deal with Congress that enables us to fight for Victory®. The plan will take 2 years to complete, meaning that troops will be pulling out by the time the next president takes office. The plan is to increase the troop level to 500,000. Congress starts the draft immediately. It can be called the Draft for American Security®. As many troops as are necessary to have a full rotation of troops for the next 4 years are drafted. This does two things. It ensures our Victory® and invests Americans in the conflict. The 500,000 troops are used to clean out all the "terrorists", and also create a secure environment for Iraqi's to rebuild their infrastructure. A high priority for the troops will be to good on a good show. Iraqi's will be treated with respect and given the room to build and adjust to the environment. Those without Iraqi papers will be deported (right wingers will like that). Hopefully we can secure Iraq's borders better than we can secure our own. It will take 2 full years to accomplish all of our objectives. After 2 years, I think more nations will be willing to get into Iraq to supplement their security.

Plan 2: Iraq fight for Freedom®

This plan means an American troop pullout. We move American troops to Kuwait, Turkish bases, Germany, and ships. In this scenario we get all of the American troops out of Iraq. We will be nearby, but not to close. Then we do not interfere in the impending civil war. I believe that Iraqi's will exterminate the foreign fighters before they go after themselves. I'm not convinced that the different sects will attack each other after all the foreigners are out. Iraqi's will take great pride in rebuilding their society. And the key is that it will be their society. If they decide to have an open society, fine. If they decide to have a hard line government, fine. That's what they're getting now anyway. America reenters Iraq if we are not pleased with the result. Obviously we can overthrow a government, but I don't think we will have to. The positives of this is that Americans stop dying in a cause we're not committed to properly anyway. It also gives Iraqi's incentive to take over their security, and decide what kind of society they way.

So now I have given you two plans before Bush has given you one. My point is that there is no reason to be in Iraq the way things are right now. We're not doing anything besides feeding american soldiers into a fight that we're not committed to properly. So either plan to succeed or get out of the way.

[Monkeyman]

1. Iraqi's want us out now

http://janets-conner.blodspot.com

a post how Iraq is dying

[Renew Deal]

2. The link is bad.

you wrote blodspot.

[Schema Thing]

3. C'mon, put down the koolaid. There's not THAT many foreign fighters

in Iraq. Certainly not enough to build a strategy around.

I do agree that it would take 500k troops to police Iraq however. Actually, even that's probably not enough at this point.

[Renew Deal]

4. The foreign fighters are important.

Because they're breaking shit that's not their's (kind of like us). They stoke the violence for ideological reasons. The first people that need to go are them. Then it's up to the locals how they want to work stuff out for themselves.

[TahitiNut]

6. Huh? There're at least 150,000 foreign fighters in Iraq.

Or is it 160,000? :eyes:

[MethuenProgressive]

5. Plan 3: declare victory,

get our troops out, because its time to get the war on terror back on track!

[Renew Deal]

7. I don't disagree.

I think the problem is that Bush has already said that a future president will decide when they should leave. That's the ultimate in dodging responsibilty because it means there is no plan. We could have declared victory and left many times. I'm not sure that we can declare anything serious the way things are now.

[Raydawg1234]

9. Or it means that troops will be there permanently.

You guys are fucking kidding yourselves. Look at all the permanent bases they're building. The troops are never gonnal leave if there is not radical change.

[Renew Deal]

10. I think we agree.

And someone has to offer a true exit strategy.

[mikelewis]

8. Plan 1 won't work...

A draft would throw our political situation into a complete and total meltdown. While some think this would be a good thing, I do not. Riots and violence won't help the Iraqis and it damn sure won't help us. Furthermore, the increased visibility of U.S. forces would lead to much more violence and a much higher body count on both sides.

Plan 2 seems to advocate an immediate and total pullout and this too has its downside, mostly for the Iraqis People. Stepping aside and ignoring the bloodbath that would occur during a civil war is just as bad as killing those innocent people ourselves. We broke Iraq, we need to stabilize it before we leave.

However, given that the U.S. does not have the political will to do right by Iraq, I agree with Plan 2. The best course of action is the immediate withdrawal of all U.S. forces from Iraq. There are ways to stabilize the country before we withdrawal but Bush and his Devils lack the moral basis to do what is necessary to obtain that stability. The true tragedy is that we can help the Iraqi people but Bush and his Demons only want to subjugate them.

[Renew Deal]

11. kick

:kick: