rather amusing - DUers deride the MSM and the bush adminstration

[KG]

until they report on something that supports the world veiw of a certain portion of the community.

then, all of a sudden, the MSM has instant credibility, and those that don't fall in line and swallow the BS whole, well those folks are CTers, tinfoil hatters, or worst of all, make 'democrats look bad'. :eyes:

[Buzz Clik]

1. Same trend on the other side of the spectrum

A little bit of rational thought is always an excellent replacement for hysteria.

[wtmusic]

2. For example? nt

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LSK]

4. GD last thursday?

:shrug:

[KG]

5. ding-ding! give that man a cee-gar!

[LSK]

7. apparently i was a tinfoiler that day

[KG]

11. actually, i'm commenting on a trend i've observed over the past 5.5

years i've been posting on DU. happens like clockwork.

[Lerkfish]

15. sorry, I still don't get it.

what incident is being referenced? (sorry for being dense or not getting my decoder ring in the cereal today)

[LSK]

31. Liquidgate

The British terror plot about blowing up airplanes with liquids.

Some of us questioned this story and arrests happening right after Lamont won and the Repukes making speeches about Dems = Terrorist lovers. We were instantly labeled as tinfoilers.

3 days later we now have stories like this:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/14320452/

[patrice]

6. This sounds like a false dichotomy.

i.e. assuming two things are mutually exclusive absolutes: You seem to say it is impossible to be able to recognize media's liabilities AND be able to recognize media's virtues.

Of course that's nonesense, so you probably didn't say that.

On Edit: There is plenty of cognitive science that shows you can't recognize a thing's real virtues unless you CAN recognize it's faults. This is what has happened to the Republican Party.

[ClassWarrior]

12. Q. E. D.

Nice.

NGU.

[patrice]

14. Thanks, but I don't know what Q.E.D. means.

Nor NGU.

Would you please tell me?

[ClassWarrior]

16. Q.E.D. is a Latin abbreviation which roughly translates to...

..."point proven."

NGU = Never Give Up, my personal motto since 11/03/04.

NGU.

[patrice]

22. Thanks.

My husband is a Libertarian corporate attorney. I don't agree with him on much, but he keeps me straight.

[KG]

19. no, that's not what i meant at all.

so, that's why i didn't 'say that'

[patrice]

20. It IS implied.

Could you say what you DO mean then, please? I DO want to know.

[saltpoint]

8. We respect good reporting no matter the source.

I don't rely on CNN that much but I love Christiane Amanpour.

I don't think much of NBC's corporate owners but I respect David Gregory.

We all can web-search for information and can access THE NATION, for example, or hear Dan Schorr on NPR.

There's some good ones out there, and we tend to be drawn to them.

[CJCRANE]

9. There is a news-cycle

and veteran DUers are well aware of how it works.

Information is released in stages, usually with the most sensationalist, propagandized stories released first with great fanfare.
More in-depth and reliable information is released later on. The more reliable the information the longer it takes to be released and the less prominence it gets.

[seabeyond]

10. you are wrong kg. consistantly the first story put out isnt the whole

story.

i am not sure what you are saying in your post. but my position is time and again a story like this comes out and we are fed bullshit. and we have to wait for time to find out what is really up. never can we just believe what we are given by this abusive lying govt.

[KG]

17. i'm not wrong. happens everytime

your observation:

'time and again a story like this comes out and we are fed bullshit. and we have to wait for time to find out what is really up. never can we just believe what we are given by this abusive lying govt' is correct.

but what im talking bout is the fact that the day these fishy stories break a certain segment of the community immediately takes the bait, and smugly berates the rest that express doubt as wierdos, freaks, and the worst of course, making dems look bad.

[Ripley]

21. Not weirdos.

Just CT Moonbats. And I bet if we compared notes, we'd have the same Usual Suspects. :evilfrown:

Forgot THIS. :sarcasm:

[KG]

29. i try to stay away from the term 'moonbat'

since seems to be a projorative used by the right. but you're point is well taken.

[Ripley]

40. Yep.

I was being snarky. I see some of the U.S.'s have shown up. Clockwork, exactly.

[seabeyond]

36. i am pissed at bush like i havent been since nsa. i will not

dismiss there role in this. yes they were bad boys to be watched and arrested. and i am sooooo pissed at bushco and their role. shame on them. if you think i will ever support that behavior, not a chance in hell. no way am i going to be a sheep that blindly follows. not even because i am afraid

[ClassWarrior]

24. If you can't handle the skepticism and the passion of your fellow...

...Progressives, perhaps you need to take a break from DU. The strong ones will pick up your slack while you're gone.

NGU.

[KG]

25. heh. thanks for smugly berating me.

:hi:

[ClassWarrior]

28. Wow, we are tense, aren't we?

NGU.

[KG]

30. there's no 'we' to it.

[seabeyond]

38. of course. and obvious. n/t

[seabeyond]

32. ok kg. not getting your position here, but i think you and i

are right there together, lol lol.

yes.... shit comes out

you have the one side that yell there is no terrorist it is all made up. they should wait to find out

you have another side, the sheep that say,..... terrorist, scared, keep us safe, fall into line, du, dems no question you look pathetic and embracing terrorism

i stand with....... sittin, watchin, listenin........ cause whatever came out is going to have the twisted and hidden..... i tend to go towards they are fuckin up or us, cause they are so very consistant in 6 years but i cant voice cause i gotta wait and see.

so i dont make a fool out of myself

i thought the lieberman thing was stupid,.......but i didnt position myself and waited, sure enough bushco's rushed it. wanted it early for a reason. msm has lamont as aq helper. cheney had press conference to reinforce. now i am saying,..... welll.... all you that said britian isnt influenced by u.s. that they are independent. remember this well because bushco reinforced once again,.... cant believe them. tey are scum. they are fuckin with the people and creating their fear. adn people toe the line, and sheep like getting in that line. and that is what is so scary to me. not the terrorists. not right now
that is my position

[KG]

35. well, i'm not sure i have a 'position', bro

just reporting an a phenomenon i've observed over the past 5+ years.

[seabeyond]

39. well, what are you saying

are you saying you are with the following airport rules to be safe. or are you saying terrorist plot foiled because of lieberman. or is it somewhere inbetween

[KG]

41. dude, i'm not sayin' anything wrt what happened last week.

just making a comment on an obervation on a dynamic i've observed in my time on DU.

[ClassWarrior]

13. You mean DUers skeptically examine the Corporate Media and the...

...Bush** administration, and usually they're worthy of derision, but occasionally they're worthy of accolades?

Is that what you're saying?

NGU.

[AndyA]

18. Even in the darkest cave, sometimes a glimmer of light shines through.

We have to jump on those rare moments of accuracy and fairness in the MSM whenever they happen.

[KG]

23. so, how do you determine those

'rare moments of accuracy and fairness in the MSM'

from long observation - it usually coincides to those times when the news fits ones worldview.

and i'm not even sayin i'm not guilty of it myself.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

27. Well, there's personal worldview as in the FR approach of

"gwb is never wrong, he protects us and if you disagree with him or oppose him you're UnAmerican and a traitor."

The DU worldview has consistently been that gwb and his cronies are bad for the middle class, bad for the economy, bad for our domestic security, bad for our active military and veterans, bad for the working poor, bad for our standing in the international community, bad for the elderly, bad for the environment and good only for the world's biggest corporations.

Occasionally, a story will appear in an MSM outlet that describes the less than positive ripple effects of a particular gwb policy.

Then, our above worldview kicks in and most of us say, "About freakin' time." MKJ

[patrice]

33. Okay, you got me now.

Yes, it does usually coincide with those times when the news fits one's worldview and you are objecting that some people forget that one's worldview is not complete without others, hence the DU BTW, so we'd be better off if we recognize that.

P.S. I dislike cliques too.

[KG]

37. i'm not objecting to anything.

was just commenting on a dynamic i've observed here. :hi:

[patrice]

42. Well, permit me to object then.

I object to when "we" alienate the "fringe".

Yes there is such a thing as a relatively objective truth and some people do get pretty "wacko" (conspiracy theorists and such) in their subjective relationship to that reality. But it has been my experience, teaching high school Psychology, that the wackos are part of a full understanding of what is going on and they should not be alienated because doing so significantly damages the group.

[CJCRANE]

44. The "wackos"

said no WMD in Iraq in 2003...

Amongst many, many other things that turned out to be true.

[Zhade]

47. It seems the more we get called "far left" "McGovernites" "loonies"...

...and all the rest of the names from the DLC cult, the more often WE'RE right and THEY'RE undeniably wrong.

To be honest, there have been more than a few times I've wished they were right. There is no joy in my being correct on some things, like the war.

[AndyA]

43. I usually try to check several different sources, some conservative

and some progressive, and look for common denominators. Usually the truth is somewhere in the middle, but honestly I've found lately that in most cases the truth is not flattering to the right wing, so a lot of the substance is omitted, or quite often, the information repeated as fact is downright false.

This makes me feel like the media is tilted to the right more than the left, and the whole thing actually reminds me of propaganda distributed circa Hilter's Germany. A period I believe most would never want to see repeated.

[annabanana]

45. I like the worldview that most closely aligns with the truth.

thankyouverymuch

[theHandpuppet]

26. It's not up to the news media to propagandize for anyone

It's up to the news media to deliver NEWS. Facts. THAT's what we're lacking. I'm highly critical of the MSM and I make no apologies for it. I expect news, not infotainment or editorializing. People can make up their own minds if presented with the facts; unfortunately, it's the facts that are all too often missing from the equation.

[rock]

34. MSM has no credibilty

Yet, they CAN report the truth (on occasion).

[SoCalDem]

46. Credit where credit is due..

We (lots of us) decry the lack of accurate reporting, and yet every once in a while they do manage to report with some "truthiness".. It's not unusual for us to ni=otice, and give some credit..

Anyone who's ever potty-trained a kid understands how it works..

Pooped in pants for days on end, and yet, when the kid finally hits the potty, we lavish on praise...and keep our fingers crossed that there will be no more poopy pants found under the bed :)

[patrice]

50. LOL - Your analogy here for corporate media!

:rofl: Thanks! :rofl:

[sandnsea]

48. There's always been an idiot element to DU

Being able to discern between Bush propaganda, such as politicizing the terrorist plot, and the actual fact of a plot is two different things. The idiot element is completely incapable of it and I've no doubt will allow themselves to be paraded off a cliff by terrorists while wildly laughing at the "sheeple" - even as the "sheeple" try to warn them that they're marching to their deaths.

Bush being a manipulative lying bastard DOES NOT equate to the lack of existence of terrorists and terrorist plots. More than one evil can exist at the same time.

[Evergreen Emerald]

49. Truth has a left wing bias

I disagree with KC. The media is propaganda. The right-wing-talking-points-as-fact are the foundation for every story. So, when Lamont and the dems who voted out Lieberman are labeled left-wing loonies, that idea becomes the fact from which every other story is sifted. This is just an example of one of many lies that have been given foundational importance in the media--and that society therefore believes.

Bush did his best to control the media. What he did not count on and gravely underestimated was the "internets." And that is why we are hearing stories (from MSM/propaganda) of how the terrorists are using the internet to recruit and beg for funds. If they continue in power they will eventually crack down on the internet and we will be in the dark.

When we hear a story on MSM and then from another country, or a source with less ties to Bush, we can sift through the propaganda and glean some fact from it.

I am weary of the lies.