"Remember, remember the 5th of November...."

[TechBear_Seattle]

Last night, I finally got around to seeing the copy of V for Vendetta that I bought a while back. As the movie credits rolled at the end, I checked the calendar and noted that Guy Fawkes Day falls this year on the Sunday before Election Day. That got me thinking....

Imagine: At the same time around the country -- say, noon Eastern Time -- men and women assembling before federal buildings, county court houses and legislative buildings, even Congress in the District of Columbia. All are dressed in black and wearing Guy Fawkes masks. They stand in silent vigil for a time, then disperse.

The message, I think, would be clear: we are tired of the government attempts at terrorizing the people. We are tired of the ruling party's use of fear and bigotry to cow us. We are no longer buying in to the claims that wiretaps and prohibitions on freedom are all "for our own protection." And we are putting the government on notice that we are empowered to take action in the elections in two days.

Thoughts?

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[longship]

5. Please stop it.

:popcorn:

[wakeme2008]

2. Not a bad idea kicked and nom :)

[chat_noir]

3. go for it!

Make your own mask...

[TechBear_Seattle]

4. Halloween is only the week before

I expect the masks will be inexpensive and very readily available. :hi:

[petgoat]

26. If you laserprint on cardstock you can make the masks very cheaply,

and print propaganda material on the back.

I wanted to print thousands of them at the time of the
movie but, alas, the gleeful quasi-pornographic scenes
in which V sliced up policemen damped my enthusiasm.

World Can't Wait is organizing a day of repudiation and
resistance for October 5.




Find a chapter in your area here:

http://worldcantwait.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=702&Itemid=209

If there isn't one yet, form one!

[tsuki]

39. I am not counting on that. Am making it now. I already have the cape.

I think I can find the hair.

[jayctravis]

63. Be real careful about wearing a mask and being in a group.

I can totally imagine they'll make up some rule about terrorism or something.

If this is done, the masks should be on a stick similar to Mardis-Gras masks so people don't get the wrong idea.

[tsuki]

65. Good point. Thanks. nt

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

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[Cocoa]

8. Guy Fawkes represents terrorism

so I'd be against that.

[Tempest]

9. By that logic our founding fathers were terrorists

Our founding fathers used what England considered terrorist acts (dumping tea in the harbor, for example) in the lead-up to the American Revolution in order to break the chains of oppression.

[noonwitch]

41. The british probably thought they were

They just didn't call them terrorists, then.

[Greyhound]

56. No, they called them traitors and, had they lost, would have been

hung as such. When Franklin told the assembly that if they didn't hang together, they would surely hang separately, he wasn't joking.

The revolutionaries are always terrorists to the rulers, and history is always written by the winners.

[KaptBunnyPants]

15. Not terrorism.

The group of Catholics behind Guy Fawkes, who was a mercenary more than an ideolouge, planned on destroying the entire English government in one fell swoop, making it more of a coup attempt than a terrorist attack. And not one without reason, as the English government of the day strongly persecuted all religous minorities, especially Catholics.

[catbert836]

17. It was more a cry for help...

than an actual coup, as James' government would likely not have immidiately been replaced by a Catholic monarch. Fawkes and his comrades were trying to do something big to get the Catholic countries of Europe, especially Spain, involved in returning Britain to Catholicism.

[KaptBunnyPants]

21. True.

Without outside support from Catholic nations, if they had succeeded all that would have happened is they would have filled the streets with pissed off Brits looking for suspected Catholics to burn. Which is what ended up happening anyway...

[Prophet 451]

31. They may have had outside support

There's not enough evidence to be conclusive but there is enough to suggest that the conspirators may have been backed by some Catholic powers in Europe, either hoping for a more Catholic-friendly England or simply hoping to destabalise England to remove a political enemy. Of course, Fawkes and his band were hung out to dry when the plot went up in smoke (pun intended).

[Poppyseedman]

10. .........and wearing Guy Fawkes masks.

At least 65 % of the country have no idea who Guy Fawkes is and why someone would wear his mask.

Standing in silent vigil is a great idea, but without the mask, it would take away from the message.

[1monster]

13. Then it is time for a History lesson.

If someone organizes such silent protests, then letters to the editors or press releases to all major and minor newspapers, news organizations, and electronic media should be sent outlining the Gun Powder Plot, who Guy Fawkes was and that Britian STILL hundreds of years later celebrates Guy Fawkes Day.

The people of the US could stand a little historic/cultural edumacation after five and a half years of the most incredible dumbing down this country has ever seen.

Remember, remember the fifth of November
The gunpowder treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder treason
Should ever be forgot.

Guy Fawkes, twas his intent
To blow up king and parliament.
Three score barrels were laid below
To prove old England's overthrow.

By God's mercy he was catched
With a dark lantern and lighted match.
Holler boys, holler boys, let the bells ring
Holler boys, holler boys, God save the King.


http://www.bonefire.org/guy/



http://www.bonefire.org/guy/gunpowder.php

In 1605, thirteen young men planned to blow up
the Houses of Parliament. Among them was
Guy Fawkes, Britain's most notorious traitor.

After Queen Elizabeth I died in 1603, English Catholics who had been persecuted under her rule had hoped that her successor, James I, would be more tolerant of their religion. James I had, after all, had a Catholic mother. Unfortunately, James did not turn out to be more tolerant than Elizabeth and a number of young men, 13 to be exact, decided that violent action was the answer.

A small group took shape, under the leadership of Robert Catesby. Catesby felt that violent action was warranted. Indeed, the thing to do was to blow up the Houses of Parliament. In doing so, they would kill the King, maybe even the Prince of Wales, and the Members of Parliament who were making life difficult for the Catholics. Today these conspirators would be known as extremists, or terrorists. <snipped>

On the very night that the Gunpowder Plot was foiled, on November 5th, 1605, bonfires were set alight to celebrate the safety of the King. Since then, November 5th has become known as Bonfire Night. The event is commemorated every year with fireworks and burning effigies of Guy Fawkes on a bonfire.

Some of the English have been known to wonder, in a tongue in cheek kind of way, whether they are celebrating Fawkes' execution or honoring his attempt to do away with the government.<snipped>

[Poppyseedman]

14. You better put the history lesson on E.T. (Entertainment Tonight)

with a rap version and you might get someone to pay attention

[ContraBass Black]

38. They burn him in effigy every year.

That's not a tribute.

[1monster]

42. That was a quote from the web site, and meant, I'm sure, as a joke.

[tenshi816]

40. In 1940, during the Second World War,

the house my future father-in-law (then aged 9) and his widowed mother lived in was bombed and completely demolished by the Germans. They were re-housed for the remaining war years in a neighbouring house known as Guy Fawkes' House. The house was so named because the Gunpowder Plotters stayed there in 1605.

I've always liked that little family connection to a historical place.

[shadowknows69]

57. And it's still said in England

that Guy Fawkes was the only man ever to enter the Houses of Parliment with honest intent.

[TechBear_Seattle]

24. A press release, then. One that will REALLY drive home the message

In tribute to the central message of the 2006 movie V for Vendetta, citizens dressed like the main character V will hold peaceful vigil before American "houses of Parliament" around the country.

Then include a paragraph or two that the central message of the movie was about reawakening hope in a people that had been brutally repressed by a fascist one party state and not about blowing things up.

[Greyhound]

51. I'd say it's closer to 95%, still, I likey... n/t

[shadowknows69]

55. So make people learn who Guy Fawkes was

Although for this country I still vote for Abbie Hoffman masks.

[Connie_Corleone]

11. And the majority in the country will ask...

"Why are people wearing those strange looking masks?"

Meaning the majority of Americans have no idea who Guy Fawkes is. I didn't know who he was until I heard about the movie and then read up on him.

[unpossibles]

46. or worse

they'll think we're boycotting Burger King

[WinkyDink]

12. Why, thank you! That's my birthday!

[KaptBunnyPants]

16. It would be taken out of context, and ridiculed.

Remember what they did to the protesters at Seattle; don't expect an honest portrayal of your message by the media. We have to be serious and professional looking at all times, because the media is looking for an angle with which to distort and attack us.

[Poll_Blind]

18. Thank you. n/t

PB

[catbert836]

20. I understand what you are saying, but...

the media, especially O'Reilly and Limbaugh, as well as the less out-and-out GOP partisans such as Chris Matthews will always find some way to ridicule us. It would be a full-time, not to mention fruitless, occupation trying to avoid ridicule from the corporate media.

[KaptBunnyPants]

22. Good point.

We can always expect them to say nasty things about us. They keep trying to make us into hippies, when the reality of the situation is we represent mainstream America. I just think it's more difficult to marginalize us when we take to the streets looking professional, not that they still won't try. I just keep thinking back to those people who dressed up in the turtle outfits at Seattle. I never heard from the media why they dressed up that way, but I saw photos of them in every outlet, almost always accompanied by some mocking tag line.

[blogslut]

19. How about

assembling without the masks? When it comes to analogies from films, I always dug that scene in A Bug's Life with the grasshopper explaining the power of the masses:

"You let one ant stand up to us, then they all might stand up! Those puny little ants outnumber us a hundred to one and if they ever figure that out there goes our way of life! It's not about food, it's about keeping those ants in line..."

Don't get me wrong. I liked V for Vendetta. Very cool flick. Awesome commentary on the times of Thatcher as well as today.

It also solved a long-standing question for me. I never knew what the hell John Lennon was talking about in his song "Remember", off the Plastic Ono album. The last line is:

Remember
Remember
The fifth of November!

Now I know what it means! 30 odd years later! Yay!

[druidity33]

23. how about...

assembling with Lincoln masks? or Jefferson? or Washington? y'know, a founding fathers tribute...

The point of the masks in the movie (and in reality) is to hide the identities of the protesters so that they are seen as a MASS MOVEMENT. I think it would also help with the current police taping of protests... if everyone is wearing a mask, focusing the camera on maskwearers and other "suspicious" individuals wouldn't be very effective.

That being said, it would be awfully easy to infiltrate a masked army...

[petgoat]

27. Or MLK

Print his quotes on the back about Vietnam and the USA's
imperialist agenda

[dalaigh lllama]

28. I like your idea the best

Oddly enough, I saw V for Vendetta for the first time last night, too. The folks in the Fawkes masks were quite effective at the end; it seemed like a good idea that could be applied here. But Fawkes is exclusively British. I think it would be much more effective to have a mask or masks of American icons as you suggest -- after all, if our founding fathers had not won back then, they would be relegated to "terrorists" in our history books.

[AntiFascist]

30. This is an excellent point....

and there should be a clear distinction. Most of us are, and should be viewed as, patriots defending the original intent and founding documents of the founding fathers, not treasonous revolutionaries with a vendetta.

[ReadTomPaine]

53. The best mask for this sort of thing would be one of Uncle Sam.

[TechBear_Seattle]

58. Excellent idea!

It should still be done on Guy Fawkes Day, though; the tie-in with the movie and the proximity to the national elections are both appropriate.

[druidity33]

60. you are so right! hands down winner! nt

[ReadTomPaine]

62. I really should get around to watching this movie...

I'm sure I'll enjoy it.

To match the effect of the one in the film, I was thinking in particular about a semi transparent mask but with Uncle Sam's features, and of course the hat.

There's a long history in American iconography of a strong, no-nonsense Uncle Sam rolling up his sleeves, etc.

[1monster]

25. How did the writers EVER get such a subversive line past the corporate

powers of Walt Disney Company??? Especially in a children's movie. It is a lesson that may bear fruit that the corporations and their governing stooges might rue some day.

"You let one ant stand up to us, then they all might stand up! Those puny little ants outnumber us a hundred to one and if they ever figure that out there goes our way of life! It's not about food, it's about keeping those ants in line..."

[jayctravis]

64. If you want the masks as a symbol, just don't wear them.

Attach them to a stick like a harlequin mask.

[Zhade]

29. Masks will become critical under these fascists.

That's what they're driving us toward.

[Prophet 451]

32. Read the book

While the movie is decent enough, it loses much of the subtlety of Moore's work. In the movie, V comes across as a freedom fighter; in the book, he's a terrorist, almost gleefully so, much more ambiguous. The movie made a point about Bush's policies while the book asked much wider questions: Is it possible for humanity to find a middle ground between anarchy and fascism or will society always gravitate toward one or the other? If all order is removed, are we truly free or simply enslaved to "might is right"? And the always apropos reminder that he who hunts monsters must be careful to avoid becoming one.

Read the book. The film's not bad but it's nowehere near as subtle, thoughtful or thought-provoking.

[radfringe]

33. saw it yesterday too

just change the venue from London to DC and it pretty much mirrors what is going on now and what's to come if we don't act

[ThsMchneKilsFascists]

34. I thought the movie sucked for the most part

but anything that gets people politically aware can't be all bad in my books

[bananarepublican]

35. The movie rocked!!! Watched it last night. Original poster... great idea!

[ThsMchneKilsFascists]

36. matter of taste I guess

I just couldn't help but detest the smarmy platitudes the V character espoused ,and that whole torture thing, but to each his own.
I'm not much of a movie fan at the best of times.
Like I said in my previous post, if this movie got anyone off their duff to investigate the neo-fascist agenda of late, it was well worth my disappointment and then some.

[QuettaKid]

37. I think it is a great idea.

The very fact that most Americans have NO CLUE who Guy Fawkes was would work to our advantage in that it would force the asshat "reporters" to make the extra effort to explain to people who he was.

[bananarepublican]

68. It would be very dramatic and simply couldn't be ignored. n/t

[paparush]

43. Bono says it during the Rattle and Hum video...

"A man who is at the point where he is ready to take up arms against his oppressor."

I'm NOT equating middle class 'Murkah to being black in S. Africa. I'm just saying..I'm starting to feel like a political prisoner in my own country.

[Mad_Dem_X]

44. I finally saw it this weekend.

Powerful. The ending gave me goosebumps.

[kwolf68]

45. It is one of my favorite movies already

One subtle message I got was in the end when all the people with the masks were coming toward Parliment and the military was standing there to oppose them.

The commander of the military could not get any direction on what to do from the leaders/rulers...he tried and tried, but those pulling the strings were "not available"....so the commander decides to have his military stand down and no blood was shed.

I interpret that as the military is as ruthless as its leaders and because they themselves have seen the carnage of war, if given the choice they would prefer not to raise their guns. Its no wonder the most war-mongering, jingoistic asswhipes are typically those who have never been on any battlefields.

[shadowknows69]

47. I'll do it if I have proof

That I'm not going to be the only costumed do-gooder that day. Who wants to meet in Albany with me?

[symbolman]

48. In many states or counties it's illegal to wear a mask

outside of Halloween, for obvious reasons, holding up a bank, actual domestic terrorism and the ability to get away with crimes, etc.

I think this will never be allowed here, outside of Mardi Gras and Halloween.

It's why all these rappers and rapper wannabees wear hoodies and such, and want to look like Holdup guys at a 7-11, pushing the envelope with the law that says your face cannot be obscured.

THe cops WILL Arrest you, if nothing else to STOP the message. THEY however, get to play with Costumes all the time. :)

[meldroc]

49. The anti-mask laws were also a reaction to Klan activities.

After lots of lynchings, cross-burnings and other terrorism, we now have these laws.

[shadowknows69]

50. Well by all means lets obey the law in any civil disobedience

It's time to get our hands dirty. Arrests get press.

[chat_noir]

52. which 18 states have anti-mask laws?

Found so far:

Alabama
New York
Virginia

[Greyhound]

54. I'm in, but every place that carries the mask is out of stock. n/t

[TechBear_Seattle]

59. Coincidence?

I have to wonder if, given the subversive nature of a movie that takes deliberate pot-shots at the Bush Regime, there mightn't have been a bit of arm twisting by the White House to make those masks scarce.

[citizen snips]

61. No

that is not what guy fawkes represents.

[chat_noir]

66. "V for Vendetta" reviews - references to O'Reilly

If there's any question about the film's political targets, Vendetta opens with a ridiculously racist and homophobic screed by Prothero, the Bill O'Reilly-like "Voice of London" who speaks on what appears to be the country's only television channel. "The former United States is the world's biggest leper colony," he spits. "And it wasn't because of the immigrants, the Muslims or the homosexuals, or the war that they started. No," he says. "It's because they're Godless!"... - The Tyee

The “Voice of London” character is a brutish lout, comparable to conservative bully Bill O’Reilly, and the government, like the Fox-TV network, skews, screens, and even creates the news stories that litter the airwaves. V’s terrorist attacks are spun positively for damage control, and the stories create a “culture of fear” (even specifically mentioning the Avian flu) that is supposed to keep the citizens docile and scared, lest they ask too many questions. - Scene Stealers

The setting is the near future, in a totalitarian Great Britain, and V has enemies of many stripes, including assorted government flunkies, Bill O'Reilly-style TV broadcasters, slimy men of the cloth and doctors guilty of performing unethical tests on internment-camp prisoners. - Salon

The station has its own Bill O'Reilly figure in the blowhard Prothero (Roger Allam). And the chancellor has his own Dick Cheney in Creedy (Tim Pigott-Smith), who aims his buckshot at Deitrich (Stephen Fry), a closet gay who mocks the chancellor in a TV comedy skit. - Rolling Stone

Prothero is an exaggeratedly animated Bill O'Reilly type (though much more extreme) who ends his nightly broadcasts with the sign off, "England prevails!" - Intergalactic Medicine Show

Other forms of social control include a snarling Bill O'Reilly type known as the Voice of London. – Village Voice

This film will be offensive to some as it takes shots at the Iraq War and at conservative television personalities types such as Bill O’Reilly. – KATU 2 Portland

Citizens are covered in hoods and subjected to torture (Abu Ghraib, anyone?), and if that doesn't sound overheated enough, there's a priest with a taste for young flesh, a popular bushy-browed TV demagogue who's like Bill O'Reilly crossed with Nixon… – people|Entertainment Weekly

Propaganda is dispensed via television, largely through the government network's shill who looks like Christopher Hitchens and brays like Bill O'Reilly. – New City Chicago

After a brief prologue about 17th-century Gunpowder Plot conspirator Guy Fawkes, we meet Evey (Natalie Portman) – the character also narrates – who works at the government TV network, where commentator Lewis Prothero (Roger Allam) – seemingly channeling Bill O’Reilly – covers up government misdeeds and stirs fear over Sutler’s strawman threat du jour. – LA City Beat

V for Vendetta has its own cast of resident demagogues--most of them homophobic, Muslim-fearing, Bible-beating conservative caricatures. There is England's new overlord, Chancellor Arthur Sutler (John Hurt), who looks a little like a decrepit hybrid of Saddam Hussein and Hitler, backed up by a Bill O'Reilly-style talk show tyrant (Roger Allam) and a scheming secret police chief (Tim Pigott-Smith). Such monstrosities channel the worst creations of Animal Farm, although the lesson here is more that after a certain point, all hated governments start to look alike. - Johns Hopkins Newsletter

A Bill O'Reilly-esque evil cable talk show host/wicked pharmaceutical billionaire/heinous military officer combo rolled into one character. - Debbie Schlussel (r/w b*tch)

Contrôle de l’information, surveillance constante des citoyens au nom de leur sécurité, tête dirigeante liée aux institutions d’extrême droite, tout y est. Incluant un animateur vedette, commentateur de l’actualité qui est un amalgame de Rush Limbaugh et Bill O’Reilly. - En Primeur


Links to reviews: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_oet&address=358x1449


Posted for a certain wingnut site that is reporting on this thread.

[nolabels]

67. U.S. population will not do anything as a whole if they are not told to..

(By the corporate megaphone of course). The corpoRATS will at least keep majority of them well fed till it's just too late (typical slaughter house tactics). I have learned that being cynical is the best way to predict the future actions of maniacal control freaks.

[eccles12]

69. I think it is a wonderful idea. Every state capital should have a silent

protest using the masks. I believe that it would spark interest in finding out what the masks represent. You need only have one or two rap stars or MTV stars don a mask over the next few months and you will most of the yap-generation buying them and standing in protest without even knowing a dit about what it all means. Then send a mask to Oprah or have at least one of her audience wear one to the show and see if Oprah takes the bait...that takes care of a huge cross section of moms. Write to Wal-Marts everywhere and beg them to stock the masks, they won't be able to risk losing a dollar. Get a few of your Wall Street buds to pick up a few masks and advertise that they are getting ready for 5 November...curiosity will bring in a few dozen more. Then ask as many sympathetic bloggers as possible to advertise the silent protest (tell them to have people carry camera so they can take pictures of police brutality that will surely occur). It's a great idea it only takes fortitude and little time. Those who mock the idea really know it's a good one and probably don't want it to succeed. And the claim that Fawks is a terrorist makes one smile when one considers that this nation began with acts of terrorism against the mother country and then against the native inhabitants and these "terrorists" are honored as heros. Alas, I am off to find my mask.