FWIW - apparently these guys in the UK did have bomb making materials

[Sinti]

They had some, if not all, of the components and had tested them. It appears to be a fairly solid arrest. From my point of view that doesn't excuse the BS perpetrated by TSA, and the MSM over this. Used to be if the intel services did their job, you didn't know about it. Nonetheless, it seems it was the real deal - or would have been.

This bit is at the end of the article:

Monitoring of Rauf, in particular, apparently played a critical role, revealing that the plotters had tested the explosive liquid mixture they planned to use at a location outside Britain. NBC News has previously reported that the explosive mixture was tested in Pakistan. The source said the suspects in Britain had obtained at least some of the materials for the explosive but had not yet actually prepared or mixed it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14320452

[niceypoo]

1. I believe nothing announced by Chertoff

Every claim they have ever made has turned out to be bogus.

[Webster Green]

4. They have NO credibility whatsoever....

If BushCo says it, its a lie.

[godai]

2. yeah..they probably had the gatorade bottles

There's nothing new about this mixture. So, somebody (who?)tested it in Pakistan (when?) and this is enough to, the other day, make the major changes in terror alerts and airline restrictions. Since they knew of this information for quite some time, seems irresponsible not to have done something with the airlines sooner (if they really believed this is a viable explosive option for planes, which I doubt).

Remember, we must all be afraid. We must all be afraid. At least until November.

Other aspects of the article...Britain didn't want to expose the plot but US did (I wonder why?). Some didn't even have passports.

Just back from the CSNY concert at Nissan in VA tonight. What a great show and what a thrill to sing along with "Let's Impeach the president" as the words were put on the screen. This was probably the most anti-war concert I've ever been to. Military Madness, Immigration Man, Find the Cost of Freedom, For What It's Worth as well as most of Living with War, the new Neil Young CD. Deja Vu to be sure.

[Sinti]

6. I'm jealous - sounds like just the thing to take the edge off

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to push the fear. You're more likely to be run down by a horse-drawn carriage in America than die from a terrorist attack.

I agree the alerts were totally bogus - if they weren't they would have started to take extra measures when they initially found out about the plot. It was just the point that the Brits aren't arrested these guys for "thinking about it" - at least we're not being told that's the case.

[Amonester]

3. I thought I heard some WMDs could be deployed or launched in...

45 minutes...

Sorry, their new (lawless) laws now allow them to arrest (kidnap?) anyone (even without warrants if they so 'prefer'), hold anybody they feel like in custody without having to provide any charges to anyone. Do I think they can "manufacture" any s**t they feel like? Duh...

Not buying their constant BS here. And no, I don't feel safer. Anyone does?

[Sinti]

7. You are actually MUCH less safe today than you were in 1999

Terrorism existed in 1999 - hell, it existed in 1979. It's not only our support for Israel vs. Palestine (I believe in the two-state solution please don't flame), but for the corrupt Saudi kingship keeping their people in poverty at gunpoint if necessary, for the Pakistani junta, who led a coup against their democratically elected leader and a host of other nonsense... they've been pissed for a long time. Back then you just didn't hear about it if they foiled a "plot".

Yes, they could manufacture evidence. There's no way we could know. I was personally worried they were going to leave this story as a "thought crime." That just sets a bad precedent, IMO.

[Tempest]

13. Since 2003, terrorist attacks have not only tripled...

But they've become more deadly.

The number of people killed in terrorist attacks has quadrupled since 2003.


And what happened in 2003 that changed everything?

[Truthiness Inspector]

5. How could the public not know about it?

If there was a threat relating to bringing dangerous liquids on board resulting in liquids being banned, people would have noticed announcement or not, that liquids were now banned on flights.

I just hope they find a way to hand water out as you hand your ticket to the gate agent and board the flight. It could be sold at the same (inflated) price as water is sold inside the terminal if they want.

[flyarm]

10. even if people get it or not ..those H20 bottles are prob more dangerous

to you than any terrorist!

in an emergency..on an aircraft ..i have said for years..those water bottles will cause more deaths than any one thing.,on the entire aircraft..

just imagine an crash..or running off a runway..or aborting a take off..and 100 water bottles rolling into the isles of the aircraft..and you trying to get 100 people down those isles ( small as they are) with people tripping on water bottles..and falling over and piling up on each other in panic..
you have approx 90 seconds to get off a plane in an accident before succumbing to smoke inhailation...

now slow up the evacuation because water bottles have flooded the small isle..

please don't think it won't happen..
i have sat on the rear jump seat many times and i used to call it the attack of
the water bottles..just on a normal take off..

the water bottles start rolling down the isle and many end up at the feet of the flight attendants..
i used to put in reports about it all the time...

and i have said for many many years...since the explosion of the water bottle boom...nothing will be done about it until there is an accident and people die because they could not get to an exit because they were tripping in the isle on water bottles..

a few passengers listen to instructions..but most do not, about stowing the bottles for take off and landing..

in accidents or emergencies ..it does not take much for people to pile up near exits and never getting off in time..

i see water bottles as a major problem.,.and a possible reason for needless deaths in an accident.

take that into consideration when you are allowed to resume taking bottles on the
aircraft...

sometimes the difference between life and death ..are seconds..in any accident or emergency.

do you want to trip on bottles..or be the cause of others tripping on your bottle..

i see this as a equal problem, as what was faced this week..even more so!

the more pro-active you are in your own safety ..the better chance you have to survive an airline emergency.

read the card in the seat back pocket..70% of people who survive read it!

know where the exits are...

keep your feet free and your lap free to get out..

follow instructions..

pay attention to the instructions of the flight crew and the emergency instructions ( the oxygen demo most of you ignore)

remember..every second counts..

fly

[elehhhhna]

16. fly, heads up:

most survivors in a big crash only get to the exits by climbing over the seats.

[flyarm]

20. not per my training..and experience.

most will have to climb out under the seat in front of them, that will be on their lap..

and most emergencies do not consist of total crash.

i do not like to go into details of emergencies ..

fly

[elehhhhna]

17. Also, a WB filled w/ LOTS of stuff could blind a steward or pilot with a

quick SQUEEZE. Anybody w/ kids knows that.

[flyarm]

19. i didn't need kids to know that!! i had a grown man do it one day to me

out of dallas..he hit the back of me with a good squirt..and soaked my back...what he didn't know until we landed in Ord was the lady sitting next to him was the lead DC attorney for the State Dept...

he was cuffed when he walked off the aircraft!!she was waiting for him!!
with airport security..he was turned over to a Faa agent..


lesson in that..you never know who you are sitting next to..she was very quiet inflight..

fly

[flyarm]

21. absolutely..

i have never been comfortable with all the bottles being brought onboard.
i have never been an advocate of the water bottle phenom..
i have always seen it as a problem ready to happen!

fly

[daleo]

8. They tested it, but did it work?

"plotters had tested the explosive liquid mixture they planned to use"

Which materials? The Gatorade?
"suspects in Britain had obtained at least some of the materials"

The article seems to say a lot more than it does.

[theHandpuppet]

18. I probably have more dangerous chemicals under my kitchen sink!

Truly. Anyone who takes an inventory of their household cleaning supplies would soon realize they could probably be charged with having "bomb making materials". I have bottles of bleach, ammonia, vinegar, oven cleaner, all manner of cleansers including foam cleaners, wood cleaners, adhesives (including contact cement), etc. etc. etc. In one of the kitchen drawers I have lighter fluid and matches (in a metal matchsafe). It would take me an hour to list all of the dangerous chemicals in my own home and as an artist you can only imagine how many there are in my studio. That's not to mention my woodshop (carpentry's a hobby), my garden shed (another hobby) or my basement, which is stocked with emergency supplies including campstoves and fuel. Since we have an ongoing home remodeling project, the garage is stocked with things like floor adhesives, paint thinners, et al. Face it, everyone's house is a potential bomb. My concern is that the day will come when people like us are labeled as "domestic terrorists" and we get hauled in because our multi-pack of "Scrubbing Bubbles" was proof that we were in possession of bomb-making materials.

[seabeyond]

9. i agree it was the real deal. i also see bushco did have hand in getting

it out sooner than what blare wanted. i also know what the airlines did was bullshit. and i know it is not going to be effective. i know it was an abuse of the people and not keeping them safe. and i know it was not happening now, but something for the future

[Straight Shooter]

11. FWIW, there are a lot of white neo Nazi militants with the same explosives

This is not rocket science technology.

A year or two ago, remember that couple in Texas that got busted with all those materials to make mega explosives in their garage or basement? But they were white, and the story died on the vine. Now, if they had been Muslim and their skin was of a darker persuasion ...


edit: I'm not saying this plot wasn't serious. I'm just saying it was overly politicized to score points for bush. The Brits did their job, and they did it well.

[Sinti]

12. Funny how we're only supposed to fear the tan folk

Fockers.... Good point made.

Technically, most of us have the components of some kind of bomb in our homes, we just don't know it. Mix the wrong stuff together accidentally (especially near a flame) and you will definitely find out. I might expect a visit from DHS now. O8)

[jumpoffdaplanet]

14. I don't believe a word

It's all bullshit at this point.

[kentuck]

15. Yes, it happened in Pakistan...

Sorry that there were no sources there but Osama said it was true...

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

22. Gee wiz, Sinti! If MSNBC reports it, it must be true!

After all they reported how Jessica Lynch Killed Iraqi soldiers with her M-whatever until she was defending herself with her knife.

[Sinti]

23. You got me - maybe I'm a sucker here Thanks for the grin though :) n/t