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14 Signs of fascism — I think we have arrived. Let's prove it.

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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-12-06 10:40 PM
Original message
14 Signs of fascism — I think we have arrived. Let's prove it.
Edited on Sat Aug-12-06 10:50 PM by prolesunited
I read this quite some time ago but recently revisited it. When I first read it, it just seemed so far-fetched, so inflammatory. This certainly could never happen here. But as I mull these words and ideas again, I have become more convinced that we already have arrived, helped along by a complacent and ignorant populace.

Perhaps you were like me and thought it would arrive with more fanfare, a little more opposition. Rather, we are simply frogs in a boiling pot of water, with the more aware among us noticing that the heat has been turned up.

My challenge to all of you tonight is to help synthesize a list of all the ways in which the current state of the U.S. is now manifesting these fascist characteristics. For each one, I think we should be able to come up with at least five concrete examples of how the U.S. under the Bush administration and Republicans fits this profile. Such a collection would prove invaluable in helping other people's eyes.

If enough of us notice the water is fast approaching boiling, maybe enough will jump out to turn off the heat.

So, who's up for some think-tank brainstorming, DU style. Let's get cracking!
1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism. Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

5. Rampant sexism. Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

6. A controlled mass media. Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.

7. Obsession with national security. Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

9. Power of corporations protected. Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated. Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts. Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment. Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption. Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

14. Fraudulent elections. Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-12-06 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
1. Break out the marshmallows and let's sing Kumbaya around the campfire
We're there.
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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-12-06 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. Do you have a link to this list?
Edited on Sat Aug-12-06 10:43 PM by Whoa_Nelly
I do agree that fascism, a al BushCo/PNAC, has been growing toward daily reality ever since the theft of the Presidency in 2000.
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-12-06 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Here's two good ones:
This one has pictures and is interactive so it's good to send around:
http://mvp-seattle.com/pages/pageFascism.htm

Here's the original essay from Free Inquiry:
http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php?section=library&page=britt_23_2
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Whoa_Nelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-12-06 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. Great links!
Thanks! :hi:
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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-12-06 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
3. We're there. I've been yammering about the US being on the road
to fascism for years--even before Bush/Cheney pulled their coup d'etat in 2000.
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-12-06 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. Well, what would you give as examples
under some of the points if someone disagrees with you. Let's build the case so others can see it.
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Geoff R. Casavant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-12-06 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
4. I count 14
You may wish to edit your subject line before it's too late.
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-12-06 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Fixed and thanks!
:hi:
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pstans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-12-06 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
5. Here's a flash movie of it
www.bushflash.com/14.html

It is narrated by AAR's Mike Malloy.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-12-06 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. It is so perfect with Malloy. Bless him.
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Der Blaue Engel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-12-06 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
8. A few DUers may go on a self-righteous rant and claim we aren't
But the rest of us aren't afraid to face the awful truth. :(
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-12-06 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. I don't think we're that far gone
that it is a lost cause. I have hope and I believe it still can be changed changed in a nonviolent manner.
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Melynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-13-06 12:16 AM
Response to Reply #10
25. I will agree with you
I don't think that we are totally facist state, yet. But those 14 points sound like the goals of the Bush gang. We have to keep fighting and turn back the darkness.
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etherealtruth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-13-06 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
33. Oh, I'm afraid
...but, I have no choice but to "suck it up" and face the hideous truth
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-12-06 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
11. K&R!
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JohMunich99 Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-12-06 11:01 PM
Response to Original message
13. Hmmmm..... yeah.... uh.... no
1. Considering the fact that the flag amendment went down in smoke, no

2. Give me some example of the human rights that have been taken away and I might give you this one. Remember that spying on our library records was just taken away so it's going to be tough I think.

3. I'll give you this one. Although, Freedom fries are no more.

4. I'll give you half of this one. Why We Fight lays out the case very well that the industrial military complex is very real, but military leaders rarely hold positions of office in this country. True true, one doesn't need to hold office to have the power, but this is still kind of a stretch.

5. Rampant sexism? More women go to college than men these days. Women work, hold office, can vote, etc. Does sexism exist, oh you bet, but on a rampant basis, I think that is also a stretch.

6. Yes and no, take a look at Robert Caro's biography of Robert Moses. It's a great book and a great example of how someone can obtain power and keep on obtaining more. He basically got such a friendly relationship with the press, that they rarely criticized him. What took him down was a new generation of journalists that saw him for the corrupt pol he had become as opposed to the man who actually did good at the beginning of his career. I think Bush has a similar relationship with the press. They still remember him for his 9/11 stuff and find it hard to criticize him because they have developed a positive relationship with him. Certainly the media is not strictly controlled by the government when you have shows like Daily Show, Olberman and shows regularly reporting that Bush's approval numbers are so low. If this were truly fascism, the media would just lie and say his numbers were 90%.

7. Which actions have been made in secret? The Bush administration can't do anything it wants these days in the name of national security. The Supreme Court dealt him a major blow in the Hamdi case. The actions he was doing in secret, FISA, NSA, and Guantamo USE to be done in secret but light has been put on all of those. If anything, it USED to be fascist.

6. Considering the fact that leaders in this country are various different dominations of Christianity and many leaders are Jewish, there is no one religion working together.

9. Just one example, look up Big Box Ordinance in Chicago. That law wouldn't pass the smell test in fascism yet over 2/3 of the aldermen voted for the bill. Also if this were fascism, Kenneth Lay would still be running Enron.

10. Labor is far from eliminated in this country. If labor were oppressed or eliminated, the Democratic party would be shut to shreds.

11. Freedom of speech still exists in this country, so no.

12. How is this happening in the United States? Give me ten examples of unchecked police power.

13. Yes, totally. I'll agree with this one.

14. Going back to the media one, clearly there aren't bogus opinion polls. Clearly there aren't fraudulent elections either. If there were, the Democrats wouldn't hold an ounce of the power they do.

In conclusion, yeah we aren't close to fascism. Democracy is the worse form of government, except for all the rest.
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-12-06 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. or maybe ken lay would still be.....dead? nt
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JohMunich99 Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-12-06 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. LOL
Yeah, I think the fact that Ken Lay has to fake his death is a clear sign that we aren't in facism. Seriously if government were in coporations pocket, Ken Lay wouldn't have to be exiled to some island.
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Der Blaue Engel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-13-06 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #13
37. What a relief...let's all go kiss Bush on the lips n/t
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The Sushi Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-12-06 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
14. Kick!
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-12-06 11:12 PM
Response to Original message
16. Welcome to my nightmare! And on to the GREATEST!
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Jazzgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-12-06 11:13 PM
Response to Original message
18. I posted in another thread that we already
met the 14 signs of fascism. Rampant nationalism and everything. Stolen elections, sexism off the hook, totally obsessedd with crime, lets not talk about cronyism...we all know about that! I am totally afraid... :scared:
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JohMunich99 Donating Member (155 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-12-06 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Hmmmm
Are you persecuted daily? Do you have government spies ready to kill you because of your opposition? Do you find it hard to find media outlets that express your views and show no sign of neutrality? Do you fear being put in jail for supporting someone other than a Republican?
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-13-06 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. Not that I'm going to convince you
But you are taking it to extremes. I used the boiling frog analogy in my initial post. I believe we're only up to simmer. What you describe is boiling hot. I also stated further down the thread that we're not too far gone and it is not a hopeless situation.

Perhaps when I have more time tomorrow I'll take another look at your list and post some counterpoints.
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-13-06 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. We could be on the threshold of that happening...
when the VP identifies those who support anti-war policies as being associated with our gravest enemy, what do you think the next steps would be?
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-14-06 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #32
39. That's a very good example
and just the sort of thing I was talking about. Do you have any more?
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-14-06 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. The most obvious examples are the dehumanization of Arabs....

or treating all Arab peoples as if they are subhuman. The recruitment of neo-Nazis into the armed forces, our treatment of Iraqi civilians, and particularly the torture of prisoners, sheds a light on a racial aspect of this war that is on par with that of our treatment of the Vietnamese in the past.
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-12-06 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
21. Idea theif
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prolesunited Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-13-06 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. It's not the same idea
And I wasn't looking for agreement, I was hoping for concrete examples, just like the poster used to try to prove it isn't fascism. I'm thinking if we put our heads together we could come up with a better argument of why it its.
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undergroundpanther Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-12-06 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
22. It's fascism
Waiting for the right excuses..to unfold on us all.
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tinfoil tiaras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-13-06 01:15 AM
Response to Original message
26. I'd say that this is the early stages of a fascist-esque regime
Sort of like the early day's of Hitler's rise to power. It can be stopped, but I don't know how. A non-fraudulent election? But Bushco may cancel them due to a "national security" threat. Day-um. I sure hope this country doesn't turn out like the America in my dream this one night...:scared:
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meldroc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-14-06 04:04 PM
Response to Reply #26
41. If the American people want it stopped, they can stop it.
And a big step in doing it would be to defeat the Republicans this fall by such a landslide victory that even with Diebold giving the Republicans a 5% handicap, they still can't win. 5% is my estimate for how many votes can be stolen in an election before the general public decides the official results are totally implausible and start demanding a recount and heads on platters.
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meldroc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-13-06 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
27. Let me rate each sign, to give an idea how deep we're in it...
For each of the signs of fascism, I'll rate our country from 1 to 10, where 1 represents idyllic democracy, while 10 represents the worst fascist hell imaginable.

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism. 5/10. Yes, we do see a lot of flag waving these days, but it isn't universal, yet... It's still legal to burn the flag, but if you do so you attract a lot of antagonism.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights. 7/10. This is a serious problem. Abuses at Guantanamo, Haditha and Abu Ghraib are but the tip of the iceberg. We're also seeing abuses at home in police departments across the country. On top of that, our privacy rights have been steadily eroded by the PATRIOT Act and the illegal warrantless wiretapping of our phone calls by the NSA. There are still elements in the government who are calling out abuses and demanding they be stopped, but such voices are becoming increasingly rare and more frequently suppressed. Not higher because we're not putting millions of people in ovens, yet...

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. 7/10. 9/11 really pushed this one forward. If you talk to some people, terrorists are everywhere, just waiting for that opportunity to strike. Next on the list of enemies are those dreaded illegal immigrants. The way people talk, you'd think we were already being invaded. Another successful terrorist attack like 9/11 may act as a Reichstag fire that'll kick the ranking for this sign up to 10...

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism. 6/10. Despite the fact we don't have a functioning nation state acting as a true enemy at this time, as far as our government is concerned, We Are At War. We're spending ourselves right into bankruptcy, with billions going into the military.

5. Rampant sexism. 5/10. While women do theoretically enjoy equal rights, in reality, glass ceilings are in place, we see gender-based pay differentials, and sexual harassment is common in many workplaces. And yes, homophobia is on the rise, and Roe vs. Wade is under attack in this country.

6. A controlled mass media. 7/10. While we don't read the American equivalant of Pravda, the mainstream media outlets are all owned and controlled by big business, and as a result, extreme bias has crept into our news and entertainment. Certain stories like the Diebold voting machine scandal, hardly see any coverage at all in the press, and coverage of things like anti-war protests are suppressed and distorted. On the bright side, alternatives to mass media exist on the internet and elsewhere, and have yet to be suppressed.

7. Obsession with national security. 8/10. The Bush Administration uses secrecy on a scale unprecedented by even Nixon. The three letter agencies have been put to work on "protecting national security," most notably the NSA, who has been illegally wiretapping domestic American phone calls without warrants. What's worse is that any attempts to call the adminstration to task over this get suppressed by using secrecy laws to suppress legal action.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together. 6/10. No, we don't have an official religion yet. No, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and athiests haven't been arrested or otherwise moved against for practicing their religion (or lack of religion) yet. And the courts have still been relatively good at preserving the separation of church and state. But the Bush Administration has been guided by principles coming straight from fundamentalist Christianity, and have been continually trying to circumvent the establishment clause in the First Amendment.

9. Power of corporations protected. 9/10. Anti-trust laws aren't enforced. As a result, for example, Microsoft has been able to run rough-shod, unchecked, over the entire computer industry. Corporate-friendly laws, such as the DMCA and the recent modifications to the bankruptcy laws, have been passed, enabling corporations to make money at the expense of individuals' civil liberties and finances. Environment protection laws are not enforced.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated. 8/10. No, unions haven't been banned. They are being made irrelevant by one thing: outsourcing. Through NAFTA & other free trade laws, companies can sidestep union agreements by moving out of country to Mexico. This also brings costs down, making the corporations happy.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts. 6/10. While intellectuals aren't physically being executed or driven out of universities, the Bush Administration has politicized science in areas such as stem cell research, suppressed publication of papers that support evolution, and various government movements are trying to remove the teaching of evolution from schools.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment. 8/10. Prison populations are huge, surpassing populations in places such as China and Russia, per capita. Drug laws are more draconian than ever, and are being misused to throw thousands of non-violent offenders into prison. Laws in general are more draconian than ever, with fines, & prison sentences dramatically increasing in severity.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption. 8/10. Delay and Abramoff are just a couple of the characters in a huge hotbed of corruption that has taken over Congress. Politics are now essentially legalized bribery, and pay-for-play. Agencies like the FDA have lost their effectiveness as they end up in bed with power-players such as pharmeceutical companies. As Duke Cunningham has shown, defense contractors are also connected with government corruption.

14. Fraudulent elections. 9/10. The more I look, the more I'm absolutely convinced that the 2000 and 2004 presidential elections have been stolen. And vote fraud is pretty much guaranteed to be worse this election, with the debut of HAVA-compliant touch screen voting machines by Diebold and other companies. These machines are full of security holes, and are easily compromised to steal votes.

Total ranking: 7.07/10. Not good. There's hope. If enough people vote this November and win a landslide election defeating the Republicans, we can take this country back. We need everyone we can get out there and voting so we have a margin of victory that even Diebold can't cheat with plausibility. But this election is likely our last chance to defeat fascism peacefully. If we don't turn over Congress, it is likely that our remaining freedoms will slowly melt away.
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tinfoil tiaras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-13-06 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. Very much agreed.
:( I'm afraid for the future. And we all know if the Rethugs "win" the elections in November, there's some serious Diebolding going on. This makes me really sad. I haven't really experienced America under anyone else but Bushco (I was like 8 when Clinton's term ended, & i wasn't really into politics then).

Welcome to DU, btw. :hi:
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-13-06 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. excellent fine tuning of the op.
while i might quibble with your ratings here and there, you have clearly put some meat on the bones of the frog in hot water analogy. no, it's not 10/10 in every category yet. it's not like we cross some line and one day it's not fascism and the next day it is. but it's way too close for comfort.

the real question, of course, is what to do. i think it should be abundantly clear by now that the democratic party is not getting it. are they salvageable? at the very least, contingency plans should be developing.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-13-06 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
30. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-13-06 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Wonder what that one said?
:shrug:
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w8liftinglady Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-13-06 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
34. this is a great site that links * to each of the 14 points
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Mir Donating Member (135 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-13-06 03:58 PM
Response to Original message
35. Mussolini
defined fascism as "Corporatism plus nationalism." By his definition we are already there, in fact have been for a long time. One must always remember as well that: Fascism is not incompatible with democracy, nor does it necessarily have to be Naziism.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-13-06 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. America is 80% into the Fascist Mode.
After Nov. that percentage may be lowered or rise even further.
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-13-06 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
38. Thanks for this. A perennial fave! n/t
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