Some of the alleged "bombers" did not have passports?

[kentuck]

So why would you think the US was in such a big hurry to catch these guys? They had not bought any airplane tickets yet and some did not even have passports?? One would think they would wait until at least they bought their airline tickets???
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http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/001331.php

<snip>
NBC News has learned that U.S. and British authorities had a significant disagreement over when to move in on the suspects in the alleged plot to bring down trans-Atlantic airliners bound for the United States.

A senior British official knowledgeable about the case said British police were planning to continue to run surveillance for at least another week to try to obtain more evidence, while American officials pressured them to arrest the suspects sooner. The official spoke on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the case.

In contrast to previous reports, the official suggested an attack was not imminent, saying the suspects had not yet purchased any airline tickets. In fact, some did not even have passports.

[havocmom]

1. Cheney needed to change the headlines

lest people start pondering throwing out other incumbent senators who behave like bushco rubber stamps.

[purduejake]

2. From the beginning... many passengers and myself...

attributed the news to falling poll numbers and the November elections. I work for an airline and the day of the attacks, people were pissed because they thought they were being unduly inconvenienced - they didn't believe the threat.

[rzemanfl]

4. Barbara and whoever birthed evil Dick couldn't bother their

"beautiful minds" with telling their kids the story of the boy who cried Wolf.

The wolf will bite us in the ass someday and no one will believe it until Little Red Riding Hood says "what big teeth you have Grandma."

This Summer I participated in a drill simulating the distribution of Cipro after an anthrax attack. We were told our biggest problem would be getting people to trust and believe us.

[TahitiNut]

12. This time, it's the wolf who's been crying "wolf!"

After eight years of baseless and fabricated attacks on a decent president, the country has turned a deaf ear to fact-based cricisms of a regime so corrupt they make Gotti seem saintly. People are getting so numbed by baseless "burglar alarms" that this regime will drain the treasury before anyone wakes up.

[respublicus]

25. Terrorists Bush and Blair scraping the bottom of the barrel?

Maybe they didn't need passports because the "intelligence agencies" were going to blown up by remote control - another Lockerbie.
See http://waronfreedom.org/keystonekops.html

[babylonsister]

3. Rec'd! No passports? Proof positive this whole fiasco, that

inconvenienced millions, was a political stunt. But how do we stop this madness?:-(

[meisje]

5. Like WMD's, it has already been encoded

[spindrifter]

6. The "some did not even have passports" is a red herring--

Some did--they went to Pakistan. Not all may have been intending to go on international flights as part of the operation. There are a lot of things we don't know and a lot that do not necessarily fit into a coherent whole. Consequently, although I believe the authorities over-reacted, I'm not ready to say it was all buffoonery yet.

[kentuck]

7. True.

There is a lot we do not know...

[ChairmanAgnostic]

8. and much that we do.

the US pushed the arrests for political gain.
the US had nothing to do with the research, the breaks, the investigation
the US took credit for everything domestically
the US fucked more than 400,000 citizens trying to fly for work, vacation or other
the US scared people who don't yet realize that every single bloody thing these assholes do has a political goal, not a national, ethical, moral or honest goal to it.

and what we know pisses me off one hell of a lot.

[seabeyond]

11. pisses me off too. i have been ranting for about thirty minutes.

i was one sittin and waiting and not judging these assholes and i KNEW it was bullshit, but waiting for the story. this is just the second day into it. more will come. more always comes with these assholes

[TahitiNut]

15. One more key thing we know ..

... is that the (purported) planned use of liquid (binary) explosives has been known since Bojinka - for over ten years - and they "conveniently" chose to clamp down just last week! There is no connection whatsoever between the arrests in the UK and the carry-on crack downs of last week! It was Kabuki. Necroconservatism spreading fear and loathing worldwide.

[babylonsister]

17. I'd love to see your comments in their own thread. I'm one of the

fucked by flying today, but all your points are valid. A political stunt that I hope gets 'outed', but I think of all the people this messed with. There are many frightened people out there, and this admin knows that and is feeding off of their fear.

[seabeyond]

10. not buffoonery. they needed to be watched and caught. they were

bad boys wanting to do wrong.

but what bushco, and brittian, and media and airports did with this is soooo wrong too. they lied, they hyped it they made it a story that it wasnt like the consistantly do time and time and time agains. they abused the people who dont have a clue and count on them. they abused in trashing all those items, knowing it was not a threat. causing people heart ache and hassle and problems when it wasnt necessary.

they ABUSED
and always that is wrong in my book, especially my govt that we are counting on, that we need to trust with things like this that we canNOT trust and will NOT trust because, they abuse

[ThomWV]

23. I disagree

If you have 10 flights you want to blow up and if you are using a liquid explosive it occurs to me that the liquid would have to be brought to the plane in 2 parts and be mixed immediately before detonation. That means you need at least 20 people. As the news give out a version of events we are told there were roughly that many people involved. Presuming one or two would not go thought with it, presuming one or two might somehow be prevented from going through with it, then you'd need about 24 people or so. Every one of them would of course have to get a pass port before the event. I don't know how long that takes in Britain, but had they been here it would have been at least another month.

Oh, and that requirement also makes it sort of silly to think they were gong to take test flights within the next couple of days, as reported in the press.

[UTUSN]

9. Well, those monkey bars have been scaring us for 5 yrs n/t

[Justice Is Comin]

13. Wait 'til the defendants lawyers

start shredding this thing into a laughing stock.

[Rainscents]

16. When I first learn about this BS, I smelled something real bad

about the whole story and the bad smell is starting to surface and spreading.

[kentuck]

14. Won't it make it awfully difficult to convict anyone in a court of law ??

If no one bought a ticket? But they "intended" to buy a ticket? Would that hold up in a court of law?

[Justice Is Comin]

18. No, it won't hold up.

Certainly not with half decent lawyers.

A felony crime has to be provable beyond a reasonable doubt on a three point foundation.

1. intent.

2. the present ability to deliver on the intent

3. the actual commission of the crime.


They don't even have evidence based on these facts that are now leaking out to present a jury with proof of intent. This is a joke.

[oscarmitre]

19. It depends on the charges

Conspiracy, like any other crime, requires intent and action (mens rea and actus reus) but point 2. - present ability to commit the crime - isn't required. Also it may well be that there are specific offences in English statutes that these people may have breached, other than conspiracy I mean. I seem to remember that there has been a swathe of legislation enacted in the British Parliament that may have created offences which could be used to prosecute these suspects.

I wonder where these leaks are coming from? It's not like the British police or prosecution services to let this stuff get out. The rule on sub judice is stricter in Britain that in the US, if too much gets out it could well be impossible for these suspects (assuming they become defenants) to get a fair trial.

[Justice Is Comin]

20. I agree it does depend on the count charge

but if they are going to hold this to any standard close to a threat to the public welfare boasting that they had apprehended suspects that were going to blow up planes over the Atlantic, they will look like buffoons if they don't charge them with conspiracy to commit murder.

And that crime certainly requires the present ability to carry out the threat. It also requires willful intent. Unless Britain has got laws that are as laughable as the Sunday comic section.

The way they're backing off this already shows this is falling apart quicker than cotton candy in a rainstorm. And I don't even think lawyers have started ripping them up one side and down the other yet.

They may be in for some false arrest suits. This is way beyond the right to detain.

[johnnydrama]

21. this was really bad

The supposed mastermind behind the plot has not been caught.

Meaning, the US wanting this to be wrapped up at a certain time, before British police were ready, means we
are directly responsible for that mastermind escaping.

If there is no imminent threat, and it appears there wasn't, you try to wait as long as possible to get all supposed
planners out in to the open.

Once again they screw things up to gain cheap political points.

Political gains now, possible lives lost later. They couldn't care less.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

22. now watch the US concoct one.

just like Zaraqawi was " in chrage" of all evil in Iraq. We see how well that went.

[chimpymustgo]

24. Now where are the CLAMPDOWNERS who wouldn't allow such talk Thursday?

Shut up and sit down...you tinfoil hat wearing, conspiracy theorists, they said. We were admonished to BELIEVE these liars, or else! We are in real, imminent peril, they cried!

Geez.

[Zhade]

26. PRETEXT.

Liars telling us they kept us safe.

FUCK YOU, US/UK GOVERNMENTS. We're not that stupid.