I Flew Today (BS Killer Thread)

[Pavulon]

The worst part was the line to check bags. Only on one airline. Everyone else was moving along.
It took an hour and 20 minutes to get to the gate.

You can take your computer, books (some rumor has started that books are banned), Ipod, cell-phones, and food.

You just cant take a liquid on the plane. You can check your stuff through. I still have my toothpaste.

They give away water on the flights.

Bottom line binary explosives are real. There was a bombing attempt using them earlier. It failed to blow up the plane but killed a passenger. They are pretty easy to make and are commonly used in demolition. Mixing a liquid with a powder in a legal product then only requires a detonator. This is available commonly as it is not an explosive until mixed.

I would not like to end up naked in a tree surrounded by airplane parts if it is preventable.

The next time I fly I will just not use a carry on for everything or check everything. If there had been a ups near by I would have had zero wait.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

1. Thank You For Some Reality And Common Sense.

[pitohui]

106. except that he didn't seem to provide either

or maybe i missed the :sarcasm: tag

[Eric J in MN]

2. Was there a sign saying you could keep your toohtpaste,

...or did they just not notice your toothpaste in the X-ray?

[Pavulon]

6. It was in my check bag

I checked everything, no carry on. I did not know what the deal was.

Other people had their electronics.


The flight was full.

[pitohui]

107. you can't keep your toothpaste

if it isn't in the checked bag, it is supposed to be surrendered, they are doing two checks, the usual security line and then a gate check where you are searched again to see if you criminal you bought such items in the shops!

[MrCoffee]

3. Weren't you skaired?

There could have been motherfuckin snakes on the motherfuckin plane!

[lonestarnot]

5. You can't take no motherfucking snake on a plane!

That would be a motherfucking snake on a plane!

[Vanje]

8. Snakes are not liquids. Or gels.

Stay scared!

[MrCoffee]

9. But they sho' is skairy!!!

especially on a plane.

[Sin]

179. Actually Snakes are both.

If you happen to have a juicer and a blender on hand :)

[tenshi816]

17. I'd be happy with

taking a motherfucking book on a plane. Fuck the snakes.

[MrCoffee]

26. If you could just put that book in the burn bag, you won't be needing it.

I'm only half-joking.

[Pavulon]

32. That is pretty stupid

I guess that is a UK thing. The US airlines were not doing that.

I would call bullshit on that.

[TheWatcher]

38. I'm sure you would.

Do they have a dumpster next to the Cosmetics Collection Bag that you can dump the rest of your Civil Liberites in as well?

But hey, at least you won't be blasted out of the sky now by Ali Babba and his Aqua Velva Of Death.

[SammyWinstonJack]

56. !

:spray: :evilgrin:

[Pavulon]

63. Yeah it is called CHECK LUGGAGE

I put my toothpaste and other "banned" items there. No problem.

You do not have a right to carry cosmetics on an airplane. You can't bring fast food into a movie theater so why are you flipping out over this.

It is not a civil right. It is a policy enforced by a private industry.

The only thing in the small recycle bin at tsa was 2 water bottles and a thing of cheap lotion.

[TheWatcher]

65. Just amused by your apologist approach.

And not at all surprised by it either.

You'll go along with whatever "necessary" measures they come up with, and fall in line like a good citizen.

It is unbelieveable to me how many people are just falling in line and thinking this is just dandy.

What a joke our country has become.

The desire for Comfort and False Security is going to destroy us long before any convoluted "Terrorist Plot" does.

I give up. Bring on the Police State.

I LOVE YOU BIG BROTHER!

[Pavulon]

70. "Falling in Line"

would be flying. Fighting the man would be driving.

There is a logical reason for them to prevent people from flying with liquid. See above link.

It is not like they just banned kids or said no muslims can fly.

I am amazed how people latch on to minor things and make them out to be a major shift in out society.

Bottom line you can't bring a water on a plane and you have to check your toiletries bag.

BFD.

[TheWatcher]

72. Again you are missing the point.

It is not the threat that is up for debate it is the convenience of it's timing and the way it is being used.

Wake up.

[Pavulon]

80. Timing, nothing is going on

if it was october I may go for that. People will forget this in a week.

[TheWatcher]

83. But the desired effect they wanted will still be in place.

You are being had. Just like so many in this country.

[Pavulon]

86. Yes, I was so hungover

that the fear was suppressed. Now that I am home posting on the internet I am popping xanax left and right.

I canceled all my flights and quit my job that requires travel...Oh wait, no , I think when I fly next week I will check my toiletry bag. That is the only change this has caused me.

[TommyO]

199. Well, bully for you!

Glad to see that you're so easily suckered in by the most recent round of idiotic restrictions coming out of Homeland Security.

What about those of us who travel light and rarely check baggage? What about those of us who get extremely dehydrated on a plane that it throws off our systems if we don't have a constant supply of water?

This is nothing more than fear, fear, terra, terra, coming out of the White House.

[Pavulon]

204. Unified bush theory has not been proven

Not all things are executive. There are other agencies that wield power.

I posted that I was offered water at least 6 times on a 1.5 hour flight. It is free water.

I did not post to discuss the politics of this. Only my experience.

But I don't see the harm in not taking water on the plane.

Snakes on the other hand..

[DocSavage]

151. A guy that

I work with said he knew somthing was going to happen because of his numerology charts. I put as much creedence in those as I do in your MIHOP or LIHOP theories.

[CJCRANE]

186. Yes, Bush is trying to protect us all

and I have a port to sell you.

[DocSavage]

190. IMO

I will not matter who the next president is, the only way that this country will cease being attacked is if country becomes muslum, and lives by shia law.

[CJCRANE]

192. By your logic

the only way Iraq will cease being "shock and awed" is to become American christians.

[DocSavage]

215. No,

but it just shows to me that you do not understand the hatred for non-belivers that the fanatics have.

[CJCRANE]

227. I do understand it

but I'm more afraid of the neocons. They've had a much worse effect on my life (and they also work with the fanatics when it suits their purposes).

[fleabert]

220. just wait- soon there will be a plot with a pants bomb- made out of the

actual fiber in someone's pants- we'll all have to fly in our underwear.

people are sheep and accept the appearance of safety over real safety and preventative measures any day of the week.

[converted_democrat]

228. Must suck to be such an apologist and have to defend this crap..

You really think being a good German will save you in the end? They've known about this stuff for months, if not years, and many of the "suspects" didn't even have passports.. This was done purely for political gain.. I don't know which is worse, watching someone defend this crap, or just knowing that a "progressive" on this board isn't able to see this BS.. Sad really, just knowing that there are so many people that are such wusses, that "want to feel safe" that they'll defend an administration that has done nothing but lie steal and cheat.. Do you feel safer now? They lie about everything else, but this is different, right?? Riiggggghhhtt...

[Pavulon]

67. Here you go (link)

http://www.fixor.com/

This is a binary sold in the us. It is commonly used because it does not require special regulation because it is not regulated like standard explosive agents.

Add a lasting cap and you are off like a herd of turtles.

This product contains chemicals available everywhere.

[TheWatcher]

71. Oh give me a break

No one is disputing that there are risks from binary agents.

It is the TIMING and the whole circus of this nonsesne, and the Political purposes it is being used for that is the trouble. Can you not see that?

This has been a KNOWN threat for a very long time.

And I am supposed to buy that we JUST NOW figured out this was such a big threat.

Please.

[Pavulon]

78. I can list

50 threats. This one just now became creditable.

I don't see anything tied in to the MI6 investigation. Maybe it was all a rove plant. He set it all up.

Terrorists don't exist.

[converted_democrat]

136. They've known about this for months, and they chose to turn

the lives of the traveling public upside down overnight.. Sorry, I find it suspect.. At best they're inept and thoughtless, at worst their using this for political gain..

[kath]

207. No, they've known about this for TEN YEARS or more.

see "Operation Bojinka"

[WinkyDink]

148. No, the point would be: terrorists will ALWAYS exist. Perpetual War.

Doesn't anybody remember the last century?? There were plane hijackings and bombings, airport attacks, cruise ship hijackings, etc.

WE LIVED THROUGH IT, Civil Liberties INTACT.
And yes, with cosmetics allowed onto planes.

[eridani]

155. No it did not "just" become creditable

It became creditable in 1995.

[eridani]

154. Read the goddam link, willya?

You don't know what the product contains, because the link lists general types of chemicals rather than specifics, because the actual formulation is proprietary. It is specifically designed so that you can safely fly with it. It takes a specific detonation cord to light it off. Keep an eye out for detonation cords, and nobody will be able to set this stuff off on a plane.

[Pavulon]

156. Its ANFO

it can be shipped in a binary state(separated). Mix in kerosene (clear),jp4, diesel, or some other long chain hydrocarbon and detonate. That simple.

This is a common explosive where I am. People use it to blow up stumps with it because is is easier to handle and store than commercial explosives.. Mix it, shake it, blow it with a blasting cap.

Admin : This is not instructions for a bomb, feel free to kill post if it is inappropriate.

[eridani]

161. That is fucking bullshit.

From the Fixor link

UNLIKE ammonium nitrate based binary explosives and traditional explosives:

What was it about UNLIKE ANFO that you didn't understand?

ANFO a common explosive that requires large masses/volumes of its two components to detonate, and it damned well can't be ignited with batteries. And I'd say that blasting camps would be quite easy to distinguish from Aqua Velva, wouldn't you.

[Pavulon]

167. From a usb thumb drive..

They have a compound that becomes an explosive when mixed with a hydrocarbon. ANFO is one of many and can be mixed in a small batch. ANFO is commonly used for blasting and comes in containers like the link provided. It can be bought easily.

Richard reid got a cap on the plane and was trying to light it.

If he wasn't so fucking stupid and tried it in the head he would have destroyed that jet.

So to your point you would think so but it appears not.

[eridani]

175. So, what was the fallout with the Reid incident?

Did it instantly become illegal to carry matches and lighters on planes? Nope. Were all scheduled international flights stopped so that passengers could be stripped of these items? Nope. Why not? Liquid explosives have been a known risk since their first use in 1995, so why all the alarums and excursions now? The reason for the difference between then and now is probably that the tobacco companies were all paid up with the Bush crime family and the Aqua Velva men aren't.

The British infiltrator did not mention any binary explosives whatsoever as being under consideration by the perps. All that was mentioned was various peroxides and amine derivatives. Reid did not use ANFO, which could not possibly have been lit off with a match anyway. He didn't use FIXOR either, because that is specifically designed to be safe to transport on planes.

http://www.skepticfiles.org/new/201doc.htm

ANFO is not without its problems. To begin with, it is not that sensitive to detonation. Number eight caps are not reliable when used with ANFO. Booster charges must be used to avoid dud blast holes. Common boosters include sticks of various dynamites, small pours of water gel explosives, dupont's detaprime cast boosters, and Atlas's power primer cast explosive. The need to use boosters raises the cost. Secondly, ANFO is very water susceptable. It dissolves in it, or absorbes it from the atmosphere, and becomes quite worthless real quick. It must be protected from water with borehole liners, and still must be shot real quick.

<snip>

Another problem with ANFO: for reliable detonation, it needs confinement, either from a casing, borehole, etc, or from the mass of the charge. Thus, a pile of the stuff with a booster in it is likely to scatter and burn rather than explode when the booster is shot.

So, in order to make ANFO work, you need another powerful explosive to hand.

[Pavulon]

202. Shoes, that asshole made me smell feet

at every airport. That sucks, for that he should have gotten the death penalty.
I have to take my shoes off at every airport regardless of metal content. Used to be no one cared. Then you could go through with tennis shoes. (no metal) Then they had to come off, even tevas and flip flops (tried both).

As with any safe explosive you need a primary and a booster. ie a blasting cap.

Fixor is made to be shipped. You can not ship RDX or TNT like cargo. You can ship some binaries because they are not explosives (1.x)

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/explosives-class.htm

[eridani]

216. So why did they leave out matches and lighters--

--the other half of Reid's binary? If you are going to ban only half of what Reid's bomb needed, seems to me that matches are way more dangerous than shoes, no? And I'm assuming that you now recognize that ANFO is ont a serious option?

[Turbineguy]

68. No Aqua Velva?

no Listerine?

dang, we gonna hafta buy dem $5 drinks instead of mixing our own Green Hornets!

[MrCoffee]

85. Aqua Velva + Listerine = cocktail?

Please don't invite me to any of your parties. Please.

[Turbineguy]

210. I worked with somebody who drank

Green Hornets.

Well, "worked" is perhaps a bit strong. It was more like I had to fix the messes he made. His brain was pickled, but on a hot and sweaty day, he smelled better than most!

[converted_democrat]

134. LOL!! Funny stuff.. I flew and lost a couple hundred in cosmetics

at Logan International.. We couldn't take food or drinks anywhere past security, and I was searched on 3 separate occasions.. (Twice after the initial screening..) They went through every carry on again at the gate before you boarded the plane too.. It was a real pain in my ass..

[CJCRANE]

185. I shouldn't be laughing

but that sure is funny.

Especially the part about having somewhere to dispose of your Civil Liberties.

[Pavulon]

34. hungover, slept..(nt)

[knitter4democracy]

213. Best blog post ever on that quote:

http://www.crazyauntpurl.com/archives/2006/07/snakes.php

My hubby and I have been saying it ever since. :D

[Rosemary2205]

4. So glad you feel safer

I just can't wrap my head around how

1. A priest leaving his holy water at home makes me safer on a plane.

2. Binary explosives in the trash 3 feet from me makes me safer.

3. Terrorists taping the liquids to their person and getting them on anyway makes me safer.

[Patiod]

14. It's that latter one that makes me nervous

They don't x-ray you when you go through security - just metal-detection. So you wear baggy clothes and tape a platic flask of what you need to your body.

I just feel as if there's no WAY they are going to be able to conduct thorough-enough searches to keep us really safe, so why make us check our bags? They can't handle the damned bags they already have, at least at USAir inPhiladelphia -- worst lost-baggage stats in the US (can't perform basic functions, but that didn't prevent USAir's CEO this week from cashing in $9 million in stock. But that's another story....) It's one thing to tell Mr & Mrs Vacation to check their bags, but adding a bag wait just f#$ks up my already obnoxiously tight schedules.

[petronius]

15. Just hope that the terrorists aren't women...

A zip-loc bag full of bourbon stuffed into an oversized bra is a pretty effective way of getting alcohol into a dry football stadium. (When I was at an SEC school it seemed like half the girls went up a cup size on game day.)

It would probably work for Explodarade, as well...

[fleabert]

223. Naked Airlines...keeping you safe with nudity and cavity searches since

2006

[Pavulon]

22. Binary Explosives

My background is mechanical engineering. I have enough chemistry to know bs when I hear it(not you)and ask an expert. here goes.

You can find supply shops that sell unmixed binary explosives for farm use. It is a chemical liquid dyed red (could be clear) and a powder that is mixed by shaking. It is active for 30 minutes then the two primary ingredients require remixing.

It is a powerful high explosive.

Sure someone could tape it but to be enough to do damage you would need a Gatorade bottle. You would be noticed ( i hope) with a bottle of something taped to your body.

That would make the equivalent of 4 sticks of dynamite.

[moodforaday]

50. So if these things are possible and dangerous,

why did they click the panic button only two days ago?

And what do books have to do with Bomb Cola?

[Pavulon]

61. Who knows

But you can mix a clear liquid available everywhere and a powder commonly available and make a high explosive.

I am not making a assessment of the policy. Only stating facts from my experience.

[Porcupine]

168. You can make nitrocellulose out of ANY paper and nitric acid

It's a basic chem lab demostration done everywhere. It's unstable as hell though. A paperbacks worth of the stuff would just make a big flash unless you compressed it.

So watch out for the guy with a copy of War and Peace and four rolls of duct tape.

[Monkeyman]

7. No liquids I got to pee first oh no

[readmoreoften]

10. Nobody said they're banning electronics.

The article said that they were *considering* banning electronics.

[Pavulon]

25. someone said books on another thread, so I just listed what I saw(nt)

[napi21]

58. Aparently the UK has banned books! I read that yesterday and asked

"Are you really SURE?" The poster said absolutely, but she was hoping they would change that soon!

[DoYouEverWonder]

11. Just be glad they weren't planning to hide the explosives

in their anal cavities.

How many people who gladly throw away their shampoo in the false name of safety, will also subject themselves to rectal exams?

[MrCoffee]

16. With apologies to TJ

Those who would give up on personal hygiene for a little temporary security deserve neither. For the rest of us who have to sit crammed next to them in a little airless tube for hours, however...

[uppityperson]

97. I have never felt the need to shampoo my hair mid-flight.

sorry if I offended you by sitting next to you for hours with hair unwashed every hour.

[MrCoffee]

120. That was you?? Grody to the max.

[converted_democrat]

182. LOL.. That was cute.. Funny stuff.. n/t

[malaise]

21. It is our willingness to tolerate this BS

that is most frightening.

[pitohui]

93. i thought explosives have already been hidden in vaginas

what about the ladies who blew up the two russian airplanes awhile back? they seemed pretty sure that it was them

prisons manage to stay well supplied w. drugs and weapons just fine

the time to stop terrorists is before they get to the airport, and that is what was done

there was never any reason to steal people's supplies -- except the profit motive

they are stealing and reselling our items -- has everybody seen this story yet?

http://www.nola.com/newsflash/national/index.ssf?/base/national-69/115540704151910.xml&storylist=national

Pennsylvania turns a small profit by disposing of these castoff items, which it accepts from security contractors at 12 airports in five states, by selling them to the highest bidders at online auction site eBay.

Most of the contraband merchandise is knives, nail clippers and cuticle scissors that were forbidden as carry-on items following the terror attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. But there's also Wiffle Ball bats, frosting-encrusted wedding cake servers, sex toys and a couple of chain saws....

the OP comes perilously close to making apology for thieves and cowards, i can't respect that

[DoYouEverWonder]

111. I wonder whose got the put options last week

on the companies that make personal care products?

[converted_democrat]

137. I flew the day before and the day of the restrictions.. I had to toss

close to 200.00 in cosmetics.. All my Lancome, Clinique, and MAC lip glosses are gone forever..

[WhiteTara]

173. try Benefit

you'll like it better!

[converted_democrat]

183. Where does one find this stuff, and why do you like it? n/t

[WhiteTara]

194. You can find it at Macy's

I like it because it is a natural product (no parabens or DEA), it's light and it brightens you without looking "made up". Also, no liquids only creams! Happy Shopping...oh I highly recommend the Lemon Aide for your eyelids. Looks like you slept 12 hours and are refreshed, even when you are dog tired.

[notadmblnd]

145. reselling used sex toys..

man, that just aint right "

[tblue37]

170. I think the Russian planes were blown up by

explosives smuggled in bras, and that is why women's breasts were being felt up by TSA guards for a while there. (BTW, is that still hapening?)

[WhiteTara]

195. I fly Monday, I'll let you know if TSA has

picked up the practice.

[pitohui]

225. ok i'll accept that answer

tsa guards in usa are not feeling my boobs so much anymore but in at least parts of europe, yeah, it's still happening

not had a problem w. bra grabbing in central america

maybe i just look exceptionally suspicious (large ta-tas for my over-all body weight and size) but i think in europe and africa they are just doing a lot of it to everyone

[ThoughtCriminal]

12. I wonder if some exec business travellers

will start express shipping their baggage or have a small wardrobe stored at satellite offices and skip baggage check entirely. Hard for them to manage without the cell phone though.

[Eric J in MN]

18. I'm not an executive, but on my last airplane trip,

...I shipped some of my stuff ahead to avoid checking it.

[AnnieBW]

30. I ship dirty clothes home

sometimes.

[Patiod]

24. On long trips, I already ship my clothes ahead sometimes

You've just given me a solution to the Philadelphia problem! I'm not kidding - thanks ThoughtCriminal!

Since I already ship stuff home all the time from the road ---> I can check my bags on the way OUT of town, but ship all my liquids and gels home, and carry my bags on when I'm coming home into the worst airport in America for lost bags.

Not a bad idea....

[ThoughtCriminal]

47. I've done it once

We were leaving on a long train-trip vacation after flying to a business trade show. We had a co-worker ground ship our business clothes, swag and literature back home rather than haul it with us on the train.

[tenshi816]

13. Unfortunately for us in the UK,

books are banned (what, is someone going to set one on fire with contraband matches?), as are all the other items you mentioned. Today I phoned the UK regional airport I'm flying from next Wednesday to query the book ban and, after a lively conservation during which she had no coherent explanation, the airport rep hung up on me.

Flying next week is going to suck big time.

[Eric J in MN]

20. They've offered no justificaiton for banning books?

How about magazines?

[tenshi816]

36. Nope, all that evil reading matter gets Left Behind for now...

I really don't see how this can last very long though, if for no other reason than that the UK airports depend on all the shops and duty free to bring in revenues. As it is now, there's no point in buying anything you can't immediately consume or wear because you can't take it on board with you, and reading material is also prohibited - well, where does that leave all the airport merchants?

Mark my words, that will be what gets things back to normal at the airports. The Great God Mammon.

[Kali]

52. Maybe they will start forcing you to watch Fux News.

No reading allowed! (Execpt for scary scrolling at the bottom of screen)

[tenshi816]

88. Yuk....

doesn't even bear thinking about!

I'm hounding my regional airport every day so it will be interesting to see if anything changes between today and Wednesday, the 16th (my birthday!), when we fly out. We're only going to Amsterdam on KLM and onward from there, but KLM is enforcing the new (and hopefully temporary) UK regulations.

How long will it be before too much lost money among the airlines and airport shops cause a change to these new draconian rules?

[booksenkatz]

45. Would love to know how

the folks flying out of the UK are entertaining children on long flights with no books -- not even coloring books, I suppose. Must be seriously creative. I may be in this predicament soon, am hoping someone will be kind enough to share suggestions.

[Divernan]

90. International flights have movies, music, etc.

Other than that, keep them up late the night before and tell them to take a nap on the plane.

Tell them you're all going to pretend it's a hundred years ago when children were seen and not heard; when parents did not see their duty to be keeping kids constantly entertained. We all have to deal with boredom occasionally as adults - it's not a bad thing for children to learn. If you've taken your kids to the UK for vacation, I think you've given them plenty of entertainment.

I may sound like a curmudgeon, but on a recent trip, a kid between 6 & 8 was in the seat behind me and was kicking the hell out of the back of my seat. I gave him 10 minutes to get settled in, but when he continued (and we were still waiting for takeoff) I stood up, turned around and said, "Are you KICKING my seat? Stop it." He looked totally dumbfounded to be told to behave, as did his Dad, sitting next to him. But he was able to control himself and stopped. (And yes, I have 3 kids of my own.)

[pitohui]

98. they have bad movies aimed only at kids and teens

i can't go 8 hours watching crap like "finding nemo" and "racing stripes" and "national treasure"

there is nothing for the intelligent adult mind, if they by accident do have a movie not set in a high school (rare) then it's got the airplane edit so it is just spoiling the movie for a time you might have actually wanted to watch it

some flights do have personal units that allow you to pick your own movie to watch but in many cases you all have to watch the same garbage at the same time and that means "coach carter" and "freaky friday"

shoot me now and get it over w.

[Pavulon]

112. Now this is scary

The flight today was domestic. I would go insane without a laptop, ipod, and book on a flight to europe. God help me on an asiapac flight.

[TommyO]

201. So you'll submit to the things that don't affect you

but will cry bloody murder when they take away your laptop, iPod or book - how convenient.

[FunkyLeprechaun]

181. Deaf passengers like me

cannot watch the movies and if I do fly on a flight with video games in the screen that's what I do sometimes. Other than that I buy a bunch of magazines and books and read throughout the flight.

There are passengers who cannot stand sleeping in cramped spaces. I do try to stay up the night before long flights but I only get 30 minutes of sleep and no more!

[tenshi816]

176. Ha! - I said exactly that same thing to my husband

a couple of days ago. Our 9-year old is having a hissyfit because he can't take his PSP on board and our 15-year old is moaning about having to travel without his iPod. Me, I'm having a meltdown over the "no book" rule.

All I can say is, the airlines better come up with some primo in-flight entertainment. I feel so sorry for people travelling with really small children.

This can't last. It won't just be passengers going nuts, the cabin crew will too when they start having to deal with mass temper tantrums from bored pre-schoolers.

[Ilsa]

132. My husband has a week-long business trip to London soon.

The ride home is going to suck. It's long and it will be dull without a laptop or dvd player. Or book or hand lotion that he applies to his face when travelling. But his attitude is pretty good, I guess.

[tenshi816]

177. Yeah, that flight to the States from the UK

is so much longer and more boring than coming the other way, when it's an overnight flight and you have the tailwind cutting a couple hours off the trip. Sometimes, flying to America, it feels like I'm in the sky for days. I'm trying to imagine it with no reading material except for the in-flight magazine. People will be fighting over the newspapers the airlines keep on board.

I guess that'll give people something to do for the first hour of the flight...

[TheWatcher]

19. Well then, I'm all for all of this.

I feel safer already.

Let's all fall in line.

:sarcasm:

[MrCoffee]

23. Sheep on a Plane

Baaaa.

[TheWatcher]

29. Baaaaaaaaaa Indeed

People! We Got To Put A Barrier Between Us And The Sheep!

[MrCoffee]

54. We've got a barrier...it's called the MSM

24 hour banner headlines about Terror in the Skies and Liquid Terror and Terrah! Terrah! Terrah!

[Hubert Flottz]

193. It works for me...

I'm even skeerd of paper airliners! NO SIR RE BOB you won't get me anywhere near an airpleane again...EVER! I cant believe people aren't afraid to go anywhere. Not to the store with all the liquids and jells in there! Not driving to work with flamible liquids in the car. Not driving past any rivers or streams. I'm almost afraid to pee, because I've had the shit scared outta' me!

[Pavulon]

28. It sucks

but what liquid do you HAVE to have on a plane that they will not give you?

I am not "for" or "against" anything yet. I am sure they will refine the rule.

[MrCoffee]

TSA will be glad to piss all over you.

[TheWatcher]

31. Well which is it, does it suck or do you not know what the big deal is?

You seemed fine with it in your Original Post.

America The Afraid. :eyes:

[Pavulon]

40. The motions and rules suck but

are justified considering a bomb was set off using this method over the pacific.

It sucks that it is necessary.

I remember when flying was fun.

[TheWatcher]

42. Yes, it is necessary that you remain afraid and scared.

But don't worry.

Bush and Cheney will protect you. And they have many other "Necessary" measures to make you even MORE safe coming up around the corner.

I'll bet we see even more of them roll out before, Oh I don't know, November?

We'll be REALLY safe by then.

[Pavulon]

53. I was scared that I was going to

puke from drinking to much last night.

But after blowing up the trade centers this is pretty minor.. sarcasm.

[Name removed]

62. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WinkyDink]

149. And when was this? (Rhetorical.) NO Security measures taken after that.

Why not? Hmmmmmmmm.....No Republican needing votes?

[moodforaday]

59. They only give out drinks in flight

But they don't as long as the plance sits on the tarmac due to delays. In the kind of hot weather we've been having, it's not just unpleasant, but can be dangerous - http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1893783&mesg_id=1893783">see this thread.

[fleabert]

222. how about everything I want to take with me?

I don't check baggage, because I don't want them to lose my shit. Once you have been thru it, you don't want it to happen again. And I don't want my shampoo or other liquid toiletries to be in the unpressurized cargo area, because they tend to explode or leak all over everything else.

it's a pain in the ass, and totally unecessary with appropriate screening, well trained bomb sniffing dogs, and well trained employees.

[AnnieBW]

27. Asthma Inhalers

My husband just called TSA. Asthma inhalers are now covered under the new rules. You have to have your pharmacist put your name and prescription number on your inhaler. You can't just print your name on there yourself. Which means I'll have to head over to the pharmacy later today to get them to do it for me. Sheesh.

[booksenkatz]

51. How??

As an occasional user of Ventolin, I honestly would be hard-pressed to figure out how to concentrate the contents of my inhaler beyond perhaps a few drops. I can't believe they're including inhalers.
:eyes:

Thanks for posting this!

[Samurai_Writer]

100. Well, I'm definitely not flying anymore then

The pharmacist usually puts the label on the box the inhaler comes in, not on the inhaler itself. I'm extremely asthmatic, and I CANNOT fly without my inhalers. The recirculated cabin air combined with the pressure of being at 35,000 feet is risky for asthmatics.

This is getting crazy. If people would REFUSE TO FLY until they lift these assinine restrictions, then the government might actually do something useful instead of putting restrictions, that do NOTHING to prevent terrorism, on innocent travellers.

[TheFriedPiper]

33. It's not about keeping you safe or making you feel safe

It is 100% about making you feel scared by reminding you that 'the threat is out there'.

Whatever works to keep you afraid.

[TheWatcher]

35. It seems to be working on far too many people.

[earth mom]

41. And people are buying into the fear hook, line, and sinker.

:eyes:

[MrCoffee]

48. AMEN BRUDDAH!!

[SammyWinstonJack]

69. And year after year after year, it still works on some.

Fooled again. The "threat is still out there" alright, however, it's just not who they claim it is.

[TheWatcher]

73. It's worked on the OP like a charm.

Again it is not the threat itself, it is the convenience of it's timing and it's Political use.

Once again, we have been had.

[Pavulon]

79. What politics

the november elections. People will have forgotten this in a week. This was a MI6 investigation.

You don't like my opinion or observation fine.

You can read my thoughts, moods, and emotions? I made an observation period.

Don't like it, lump it. Post your own thread where you have a better one.

[CJCRANE]

187. It was a joint investigation

and reports are coming out now (see other threads on DU) that the decision to go in early came from the US.

[Protagoras]

37. Strangly enough I've had 2 airplanes crash over my neighborhood

back in 1986 actually (they flew into each other). Bodyparts in my friends front yard and all over the neighborhood church. I remember what that was like. I wouldn't like it either...ever again.

And I had a flight scheduled on 9/11 2001...got cancelled of course...and I flew 2 years ago on 9/11.

I fly internationally. I GET IT.

I also understand most of the chemistry involved. Yippy for me.

Nonetheless, I also take some time to really examine the "potential" risk vs the "actual" impact of acting in a fearful fashion. "If it is preventable" is kinda key here...kinda like "what is safe"...we do have to have some kind of scale there and last I checked there is never a 100% safe no matter how much effort you throw at it. That's not life nor would most of us want that life if we could have it.

And I find the current restrictions to be out of proportion, unreasonable, intrusive and...*key here* ineffective.

I see a bunch of old ladies losing lotion and makeup and I KNOW it's silly. We've lost our collective minds if we accept idea that Anything the terrorists MIGHT use is something we SHOULD ban.

And nothing...and I mean NOTHING we do is going to keep us safe. Right now we're talking about massive intrusions, inconvenience and expence for MINIMAL protections. The difference between .00001 and .00002 is (admittedly in my old fashioned judgement) not worth millions of man hours and billions of dollars...especially when it is having an additional social impact of habituating us to a life of fear and compliance.

I'm ALL for good security measures. I'm all for smart police approaches. I'm not for brainless knee-jerk bannings and searches because we MIGHT have a POTENTIAL threat.

Everyone driving to the airport today is taking a greater risk getting there in their car then they are getting on that plane...and that is not changed because we strip people of their contact lense solution and right guard.

Thanks for letting people know books and ipods aren't banned in the US...I would hope most people had verified that but maybe many hadn't. In the UK I understand it's a bit different but I don't have to fly there this month so I haven't checked beyond CNN.

Glad that we are putting down false rumors but lets not ignore the fact that our reactions to our fears is often as dangerous as that which we fear in the first place.

[Pavulon]

49. I agree it does not make things

all better. However I believe it was real. I believe that mi6 caught these guys getting ready to carry out a plot.

They were going to use that method. I would be happier if all bags and people were scanned.

Not plausible for people but it would be nice.

My reaction is not fear. It is annoyance.

In reality is just means I had to check a bag I would have carried on.

[Blue Belle]

81. I just check most my bags anyway...

just because it is such a bitch to both find overhead space (because some moron needs 3 huge unchecked items) or get my unchecked bag in and out of the overhead space. I travel light on board and just take my purse, some dishy magazines, and a Xxanex. :)

[seabeyond]

74. i think if not everyone, most everyone GETS IT as you say

people willing ot not think it thru so the feel warm,fuzzy,safe may like to suggest we dont get it to validate their toe the line, be sheep attitude. i dont accept that if you oppose these restrictions it is because we are unaware of a threat.

"And I find the current restrictions to be out of proportion, unreasonable, intrusive and...*key here* ineffective."

this is the key

6 months after 9/11, 6:30 in the morning, before i had enough coffee, going thru security i was being "wanded" with my hubby and two little boys, 5 & 7 watching. our round ticket showing destination to florida. spring vacation. i was pulled out and searched and when asked brightly how i was doing today, i mumbled "this is a bunch of crap". not hostile, without much thought. i was detained. i had a cop brought to me to stand by me. i then had top security, a male stand an inch or two from my face. eye to eye we stood there. finally i ask what are you doing. he says, i hear you have a problem. ya this is a bunch of crap i say. and we stand there. finally i say are we done,.... and he moves out of my way. now they have kids behind a table, and searching their stuff. eyes huge and afraid. i sit with them and say whats up. gotta search. cop comes over i ask why the cop. the cop says to protect the searcher from me..... in front of children. i laugh,.... and say me, you are afraid of me. to my little one i say, oh jonas, can you believe they are afraid of me. isnt that so silly.

pathetic

it was all for intimidation. nothing more. they didnt like what i said and to intimidate. but see, i dont know how to be intimidated. i fail.

this..... did not make a single passanger more safe.

the things that keep us safe isnt in these shows. it is quiet, and it is work and consistancy and well thought out and followed thru. but these "shows" are not about keeping us safe.

that is what i resent and refuse to particpate in.

[Protagoras]

75. Thank you for sharing that experience

I think it illustrates where the greater threat really exists.

And I think you deserve a :toast: for telling them it was crap and sticking to it. Because you are spot on.

[seabeyond]

87. color me surprised

most think i deserved that intimidation because i dared to say something. when i share the story and the response is i shouldnt have said anything, then i am really bothered. basically the person is confirming that we dare not speak, eyes down, tails between our legs, submit. what..... is the trigger to be thrown to the ground, knee in the neck and arm stretched behind our back, because we dare to speak out.

that.... scares me more than any of our threats from terrorist, (even our govt.) are the people that are willing to empower both groups. we are the only ones that can not allow it to happen, and we are failing miserably.

thank you for your reply.

[Pooka Fey]

129. Nice post. nt

[Homer Wells]

91. This reply alone deserves its own thread

I agree with you totally. The constant fear that the Bush Regime has been beating us over the head with since they first seized power is unbelievable. We have, indeed, become "one Nation, under Fear"!!

[marions ghost]

138. VERY well said!

"current restrictions ...unreasonable, intrusive and ineffective"

I understand putting restrictions on planes passing through England temporarily. But I can only see
what has been done in the US as exactly what you say...

If a procedure is ineffective, why do it?

Because this is so ridiculous is why you have people suggesting ulterior motives.

[Rose Siding]

39. Liquids posed the same threat last week that they do now.

-and that's been known, at least, since the Ramsey Usef plot 10 years ago. This is a political circus.

[calico1]

43. What about purses? Are those allowed? n/t

[Pavulon]

94. Yep

They just banned liquids and gels. Saw plenty of women with purses.

[calico1]

104. Thanks, I need to fly out in

about a month.

[Pavulon]

95. The Orange cat

is the boss, right?

[calico1]

105. He was.

We lost him about 3 months ago. He was only about 4 but had a heart condition according to the vet. We took his body to the vet to have him checked out because he had been fine and showed no signs of being unhealthy in any way. We just found him dead one morning and I wanted to know why. It was really a shock to us. I still miss him so much. I want to get another orange boy one day.

[Pavulon]

109. I am sorry

I would be sick if that happened to one of mine. I have a GIANT orange cat. He was a stray kitten. He pretty much runs the house. Pesters the dogs, eats their food. Tries to herd us.

Mine do the same thing, show his belly off.

[calico1]

114. That's funny.

Quincy, my orange boy, was also a stray. The daughter of a coworker of mine found him. He actually was following her and her friend around. They called me and asked me if I wanted another cat. I already had 4 but I took him. The very first time I called him "Quincy" he looked right at me and he always responded to his name. He LOVED lying on his back, tummy up. Does your boy do that too? I miss him because he was such a character. His death was so sudden. I like to think that at least he had a good home. The vet told us that the condition he had couldn't have been detected in a regular checkup and it wasn't something we could have seen any signs of. The day before he died he was his usual self...eating, chasing the other cats, cuddling with me. What is your orange boy like? I like to hear about other orange kitties.

[Pavulon]

121. Yep. sleeps like that all the time

He sleeps at my feet with all 4 feet up in the air. We have 3 cats. He is they youngest. He is 3. Peep. like the candy, he was really small when we got him. Now he is 20lbs. No fat just a big cat. He can put his paws on the kitchen counter from the floor. He chases toys like a dog.

He leaves the older cat alone but plays with the calico. He usually ends up biting her and chases her around the house. Doesn't hurt her at all. She yowls when threatened. They are all fixed.

The calico betsy bites ankles to remind us to feed her. My wife works long hours and has been woken up many times by bites or by being liked on the eyelids.

He jumps on me when I come back from trips. He shows no fear of anyone in the house. My wife will squirt him with a water bottle to make him stop eating dog food (bad for them). He just moves away and scowls.

He is terrified of any stranger. If someone knocks he hides. Eventually he comes out but it takes him a long time to get used to strangers. He is so big the only place left he can fit is behind the washer or under the bed.

I don't even let them out anymore. We live in a safe area for them but I would hate to lose a pet like that.

I have always had cats, his body language looked like he was the boss. They are great pets.
I am sorry, loosing a pet like that is horrible. I am glad he had a good home while he lived.

[calico1]

126. Hey, you need to post a picture of your boy.

Mine also liked to chase the other cats and I also have a calico that I resucued. The two of them were buds. Pictures when you have them, ok?

:hi:

[Pavulon]

130. Will do

I will post pictures of peep <aka>BOB (Big Orange Basta#&) as soon as I get some online.

May not be today. Am brain dead from a really long week out of town.

[TygrBright]

172. Orange and white kitties RULE....

...everything in their vicinity.

The World's Most Irritable Cat:



Also prefers to sleep sprawled out with fluffy white tummy exposed. This is to tempt the unwary humans into attempting to pet said tummy, at which time the sweet fluffy lap cat falls away and the True Carnivorous Predator underneath is revealed. It isn't pretty, but the kitty enjoys it.

There really is something about BOBcats (Big Orange Boy).

appreciatively

[Pavulon]

200. Wow

That cat looks EXACTLY like mine. Even the stare...

The face is a little bit different.

I will try to get some pictures up today.

Mine will jump into the air to attack you hands when you play with him (a no no but to late now). Crouches like a snake and attacks.

He growls at people from the front door. Pound for pound the most aggressive animal in my house. The dogs are no comparison.

Very friendly though.

[calico1]

212. Adorable! Just look at that face!

Here is one of my orange boy lying in the position he loved best:



I hope to get another orange boy soon.

[hlthe2b]

44. First of all, the electronics/book bans were overseas flights..

to and from Great Britain & US. While some may be misinformed on the specifics, this IS true for some flights (and could be extended to domestic flights, given the climate).

2. As to downplaying this all as policy based on thorough understanding of the risks and that this is a critical intervention (and not 95% show), I will refer those here to more expert sources, like former CIA officer, Larry Johnson:

How Much Bush Stupidity Can We Take?
....JESUS CHRIST!! How much stupidity must we endure from the Bush Administration? How much farther up their ass can they stick their heads? Binary explosives, and their ready availability, have been a fact since World War II. And we're supposed to believe that George Bush, Tony Blair, and Michael Chertoff have just awakened to this fact? At a minimum, this is a further indictment of the incompetence of Bush and his cronies. They have done NOTHING, I repeat, NOTHING to deal with this threat even though security professionals have known and fretted about this for years....

And with respect to the official recommendations Johnson goes on to say:
Instead of a common sense approach to security, the Brits have hit the panic button. Here's what needs to be done:

1. No liquids on board a plane weighing more than one pound. Eight ounce bottles are okay but you must drink the liquid to demonstrate it is not an explosive.
2. One carryone bag per passenger. All carry on bags hand searched.
3. No cotton balls.
4. No third party cargo on passenger aircraft. http://noquarter.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/08/british_lose_th.html#more
**********************

3. As to all of us "overreacting," well perhaps you are lucky not to have life threatening conditions which come from dehydration, not being able to eat specific foods regularly (ex) IBS, Diabetes, etc) or have eye problems that, if not for the specific drops providing treatment, could result in blindness. Take a look, OP at the following warning message from the Opthalmologic community: http://www.aoa.org/x5479.xml
The American Optometric Association (AOA) has an immediate concern for the health and well being of the millions of people who will now be unable to administer prescriptive and over the counter medications while flying.

Who does this effect?

* Glaucoma patients: Approximately 4 million people have glaucoma and rely on prescription eye drops multiple times a day
* People with dry eye: Nearly 30 million people suffer from mild to severe dry eye and need eye drops every few hours or in some cases as frequently as every few minutes (air travel also increases dry eye problems significantly due to the dry, pressurized air on a plane)
* Corneal transplant patients: Hundreds of thousands of people have undergone corneal transplants to save their sight and often take medication for the rest of their lives (typically a low dose antibiotic or an anti-inflammatory administered through drops). These drops may need to be administered multiple times a day
* Contact lens wearers: 30 million people wear contact lenses and may require frequent eye hydration during flights
* Patients with eye infections such as conjunctivitis/pink eye
* Post-operative patients following refractive surgery, cataract surgery and others
****************************************



Now, don't think I'm not happy that you had an uneventful flight. I simply do not appreciate your "scolding" those of us who DO understand the issues and potential consequences--far more, than it appears, than do you. Happy flying. Just step over the heat stroke victims on the tarmac and be on your way....Not to worry....:eyes:

[Pavulon]

92. I was offered free water no less

than 6 times on a short domestic flight. 6 times.

They will give you water for free on the plane. Check the other stuff on the list.

It is a minor thing.

I would prefer there were not people motived to kill me. But that is another thread. As it is a problem that has faced Americans for many years.

[hlthe2b]

140. Tell that to the United & American passengers stuck on tarmac

for hours in 100 plus temps with no AC. This has happened several times in recent days/weeks, including two well publicized events in Chicago. Beverage "service" doesn't get initiated when flights are delayed on the ground. So, if you think you wouldn't be a bit unhappy without your supply of water, unable to get up or get off in your crowded tin can airplane, as you see fragile elderly around you moving towards heat stroke, MI, or worse, then you just have little capacity for understanding.

Believe all you want about how "safe" this makes you. Hey, maybe Faux news will book you to move the propaganda.

[Pavulon]

162. Bad luck

I booked 17 trips last year. 5 international, some to "developing" nations. Never had that happen. Every time I have been stuck they have served drinks. KLM and Lufthansa served alcohol. Refueled, and server more drinks.

I guess this is an orwellian plot. ban the water to take my "rights".

[Eurobabe]

101. Well you people with eye problems just stay home

No need for you to fly and gum up the works!!

My mom is flying overseas to see me in October and she has glaucoma. She's pissed.

[moodforaday]

46. Much worse on international flights

Good it worked out for you, but my fiancee is on a plane right now from Warsaw to NYC, and it's much worse. Even though you can have your carry-on on flights to the US (unless flying from the UK), the Polish airline decided to follow the UK model - without any reason whatsoever except to make themselves look important, I suppose - and have banned everything except cash and passports. For one thing, she can't have a book or her mp3 player on a 9 hour flight. The plane departed two hours late and now she'll miss her connection from JFK to SFO. I'll be picking her up in San Fran but they banned cellphones too, so she won't be able to let me know what flight she'll be taking from JFK. She was supposed to arrive at SFO at about 10pm tonight, so I'm looking at spending the night at Arrivals sitting on pins, checking every incoming plane. I'm worried as hell and I'm pissed off at the airline.

Flying used to be a thrill, in a good sense. We both used to love to fly.

Ultimately I think it's the banning of books that does it for me. If we're not living in 1984 already, I don't know what it's going to take for people to realize that we indeed are.

[TheWatcher]

57. But there can't be a ban on Books. The OP "called Bullshit" on that one.

So you can be sure it isn't happening anywhere, because after all, it isn't happening on US flights within the country. :eyes:

Now, fall back in line, before Saiheed The Terrible Splatters you to a billion pieces with his Gatorade Grenade.

[Pavulon]

76. Gatorade bottle with this inside

http://www.fixor.com/

You can read the ingredient list. If they dont list it I can tell you you could get them both in a 10 minute trip with NO id required. The blasting cap would take you a few days to buy legally or steal.

Richard reid was a myth. He did not exist. He was not trying to light a blasting cap with enough explosives to destroy the plane. He was to stupid to do it in the bathroom or those people would be dead.

I think it is a fair trade to leave your water off the plane. If I was so offended by that rule I would choose not to fly.

[TheWatcher]

82. When are you going to get it.

No one is disputing that such a method is a threat. it is the convenience of it's timing and the way it is being used Politically. This whole circus has been suspect form the get go. They have already released one of the suspects. Soon enough, as time goes on, they will ALL be released and it will fall down the memory hole, but the desired effect is all that will matter.

Just like the Miami BS. Just like everything else they have cried "wolf" about when thier asses need covering.

If you want to buy into it all in, fine. After all that we have seen the past six years, the fact that you approach this with not even a hint of skepticism is disturbing, but completely in line with your approach to things.

You live in fear and in the grip of Organized Propaganda.

I'll pass.

[Pavulon]

89. Yeah

ok. I am part of the matrix, I like the matrix.

I did not discuss the politics of this. Only posted useful information from my experience in the airport today.

That is all.

I am sure there is a conspiracy thread that needs your help. You seem willing to make forward looking predictions, I don't. Either they have the people and evidence or they don't.

You are speculating.

Let me try, your name is wyatt, you live in new hampshire, you have a wife and 3 kids...wait.wait am I right. Your guess is as good as mine..

[LiberalUprising]

153. WTF!

[hedgehog]

123. It's not a book ban as such

It's just that security only had so much time to inspect passengers without screwing up the system even more. There wasn't any time to inspect each and every item people wanted to carry on. The easiest way to handle it was to eliminate all carry-on luggage except for what was absolutely needed.

[longship]

55. Common sense would be to interdict terrorism before...

a terrorist tries to get a bomb on a plane.

Or how about a real radical idea, change the world situation so that terrorism is no longer a threat.

No, that would make too much sense. We'd rather have TSA strip searching and required anesthetized, naked flying, which is where this all is leading.

Doing all these restrictions gives the terrorists just what they want. In World War II, Britains thumbed their noses at the German bombers, sat in their pubs, and carried on.

I refuse to be afraid.

[mnhtnbb]

118. But since they "hate our freedoms" let's just take them all away.

[Loge23]

60. Naked and probed, but safe

No problem with the government listening in on phone calls if it keeps me safe.
No problem with moronic draconian checkpoints at the airline gate if it keeps me safe.
No problem stripping and bending over if it keeps me safe.
No problem with cancelling the elections if it keeps me safe.
No problem with installing a one party system if it keeps me safe.
No problem curtailing my freedom if it keeps me safe.
No problem at all when I have no choice.

[CJCRANE]

188. You got to

destroy the freedom to save the freedom.

Or something...

:shrug:

[mitchtv]

64. If I take a long trip I need

a refigerated medicine which involves a cube or two of prefrozen icepack(Blue ice) I doubt if the pharmacist will put a prescription on it, as he would the liquid medicine. what do I do?

[hedgehog]

66. Books, make-up, eye drops etc are not the problem.

Explosives hidden in or made to look like books, make-up, eye drops are the problem. Sure, someone somewhere is trying to figure out a new way to smuggle weapons on board, but why make it easier by providing camouflage? How many of the people screaming now because they can't bring something on board would be screaming even louder if the inspection process took six or eight hours? I expect some policy adjustments in the next few days to take into account such things as eye drops. In the mean time, stop and consider where we'd all be today if the security people back on 9/11 had thought to ask why so many people were boarding with box cutters. If you don't believe that the hijackers used box cutters, then what did they use and did they even bother trying to conceal it? Security before 9/11 was a joke that we're all still paying for.

[mnhtnbb]

115. Box cutters would have been useless against secured cockpits

9/11 did NOT have to happen. It did, not only because Bush didn't give a shit about the intelligence, but because the airlines, for years, ignored the recommendation that they spend the money to secure cockpit doors.
El Al secured their cockpits years before 9/11 and had no more hijackings.

9/11 happened because the goddamned airlines cared more about their balance sheets than they did human life.

[hedgehog]

119. You're exactly right, but do any of us want to be posting here

a year from now complaining that airlines allowed passengers to carry all kinds of liquids aboard planes when they knew that liquids could be used to smuggle explosives? A thief can always break into my car, but that doesn't mean that I leave the doors unlocked and the keys in the ignition to make it easier.

[mnhtnbb]

144. Who says the liquids can't be exploded in checked bags?

[Blue_In_AK]

77. We just sent my mother-in-law home to Texas

on a plane last night, and she had no problems either ... she even got to carry on her (gasp) JELLY-filled doughnuts. Of course, Anchorage isn't the hugest airport in the world, but at least Continental was flowing very smoothly.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

84. Whatta bunch of horseshit.

Period.

[greatauntoftriplets]

96. Thanks for the bit about them giving water away...

Hell, I'd pay them for it. I am flying next month. Happily, it is less than a one-hour flight.

[Catchawave]

122. Yes, that was nice to know

too bad the media can't throw the airlines a shout out for being compassionate to their passengers in this situation.

[Pavulon]

125. Southwest

was pretty cool about it. Some of the others may have been less than helpful.

I could write a book about terrible airline treatment over the years.

[Catchawave]

127. I love Southwest !

Thanks for sharing that. :hi:

[seabeyond]

141. southwest has been the best for us for years. american sucks

they use to be my favorite, but last decade they suck. bad.

[davekriss]

99. More restrictive ban on flights...

...from the U.K. (Gatwick and Heathrow) to the U.S. You can take nothing on the plane except a few small items emptied from your pockets into a clear plastic bag. No computer. No iPod, no books. Imagine a 6 hour flight with nothing to read except the airline insert in the seatholder? Yikes!

At least this is what our headquarters announced, and what a co-worker who lives in the U.K. confirmed.

[Pavulon]

102. Now that really sucks

I don't think they will leave that in place. At least I hope not. Have to fly to belgium next month. That would really suck to have no carry on.

[davekriss]

103. Ditto

I have to fly to Venice, Italy in October, with a stopover in the UK.

[TommyO]

205. Given your attitude about other substances

why not give up your book, after all, it is in the name of your safety.

[Pavulon]

208. If they had the 5th/42nd st library on board

fine. I would have access to reading material. They gave me free water. They offered repeatedly.

Airlines are private companies. you can start one. You can charter people around with your rules.

I cant take food to a movie theater either. Not the end of the world. This is a minor thing.

The politics of it are something I am not addressing. Just leaving off my drink and checking bulk liquids.

[leftofthedial]

108. I've heard reports that sometimes people spontaneously combust

I think they should ban all people on planes, just to be safe.

[Pavulon]

110. Screaming Babies first please...(nt)

[leftofthedial]

116. and compulsive yackers

[mnhtnbb]

117. Nah, duct tape will do for them.

[Pavulon]

124. I pray that cells

are never allowed. I would have to start wearing hearing protection. Can you imagine a cabin full of people blabbing about nothing over cells.

Makes my skin crawl.

[Blue-Jay]

113. Well, it sucks that I'm going to have to check my bags

just to be able to have hair gel, but you do what you gotta do I guess.

[Warren DeMontague]

128. Nah, what you're supposed to do is chug several liters of bottled water

BEFORE you get on the plane.

Then, when they take off and decide -as they ALWAYS fucking do- to use the "turbulence" argument and the "fasten seat belt" sign for crowd control purposes, so that the flight attendents don't have to deal with people in the aisles, you can sit there for three hours unable to urinate.

Wheee!

[Pavulon]

131. I hate that

I ignore it when possible, else say something borderline crude involving now wanting to soil myself. That generally works. Hope they never call my bluff.

[seabeyond]

142. you mean i am not allowed to get up and pee. gee, never knew that

i think i have the inherit right,.... right, not privilege to NOT pee in my pants. i have never paid attention to that. if i need to use bathroom and plane is tilted going up, i still go. lol lol. i have never had a person say anything.

[Warren DeMontague]

150. Oh, yeah, after a while I'll get up and go, too.

There seems to be a specific time limit to what people will put up with, and as soon as everybody collectively goes "fuck this", suddenly the nonexistent turbulence magically vanishes and they turn off the sign.

But I've been yelled at, I've seen other people get yelled at, I've seen them come on the PA and go "Everyone must remain in their seat blah blah"..

[pitohui]

226. i've had them say something

hoo yah

once i was coming home from a v. long journey and i fell asleep on the last leg -- a one hour flight -- the crew had no way to know i'd been flying 20 hours already

i fell asleep then jerked awake then in a semi hypnotized state as you do get up and walked in search of a bathroom

the (male) flight attendant screamed -- literally screamed -- tells you i must have looked like heck :-)

needless to say i was jerked out of my sleepwalking state and was v. v. apologetic -- and so was he -- when he realized i was just in a state of confusion he let me use the lav and go back to my seat even tho the "seatbelt" sign was on

but if instead of being a tiny blond i was a six foot seven nigerian basketball player (i was once a flight w. a famous nigerian basketball team or so i'm assured they are famous) would they have been as understanding?

[MaineDem]

133. Thank you

Now if a few people from other threads could read this ...

I'm glad to hear you were offered bottled water. The only thing that bothered me was not bringing water with me.

[City Lights]

135. My eyes dry out on flights.

It's even worse since having Lasik. If I can't take my drops along with me, I can't fly. x(

[matt819]

139. No rumor on the reading material

`On a flight from the UK this morning, it was confiscated. Absolutely nothing was permitted for carry-on. OTC medication was chucked. Magazines, gone. Plastic sleeve with passport and wallet only.

[GoneOffShore]

143. Not all of Europe has gone crazy Just the UK

This is from the Air France site: NOTE when the regs expire.

INCREASED SECURITY MEASURES TO UNITED STATES, UNITED KINGDOM AND ISRAEL
The french authorities have published new security measures concerning articles transported in the cabin of the aircrafts towards USA, United Kingdom and Israel.
These instructions apply immediately until september, 30th, 2006.

All following articles are prohibited in cabin bag:
- liquids: such as beverages, perfume
- gels: shampoo, hair gels
- creams: suntan lotion, toothpaste
and all other items of similar consistency

All following articles are authorized:
- baby formula, breast milk or juice for baby or small child
- prescription medicine with a name matching the passenger´s ticket
- insulin and essential other non prescription medicines or tablet

Air France is asking all its passengers travelling to the United States, United Kingdom or Israel to arrive at the airport well in advance of their flight departure, given the additional security measures put in place by the french authorities.

[The_Casual_Observer]

146. They didn't use any binary chemicals ever. And I doubt

you know what the fuck you are talking about.

[Pavulon]

166. I have

an engineering degree, sat through college chemistry, served in the army NG transporting explosives of all types.

The point of this is to prevent someone from bringing on powdered ammonium nitrate in a container and mixing it with a clear hydrocarbon (kerosene comes to mind) and then using a blasting cap to detonate it. Unlike nitro or tatp this formula is stable.

4lbs (1/2 gallon) of anfo (.8 tnt equiv) would be sufficient to destroy the flight deck or damage the cabin in many ways. Basically destroy the plane. Detonated in the lav by the cockpit it would kill everyone.

That is not fucking kool aid bullshit. If they had the means to do this they would have killed people.

Just like the 2 Russian jets that were blown the hell up on the same day.

Feel free to pull this post, but this is common knowledge. This mix is what flattened texas city, not posting a recipe or anything.

[leesa]

147. Not likely to happen...you sound like you would be a prime candidate

to give up any freedom to prevent the incredibly remote likelihood of a terrorist attack. England would have been paralyzed during WWII if everyone were as afraid as Americans are.

[Pavulon]

158. You cant piss on the street in the UK

without being on camera. I said NOTHING about fear. I fly international several times a year and domestic monthly for my job. Don't think I am quitting on monday.

You seem willing to go after me.

I have given up my right not to carry water on a plane without a fight. My god, I'm sure there is a quote by franklin or jefferson to mark this event, blah.

[eridani]

152. Nonsense. NO binary explosives were used in the Bojinka attack

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1883785

It was nitroglycerine. The binary explosives that are commonly used in demolition are specifically designed to NOT be useful for terrorist operations. Every item either used by Bojinka or proposed by the British perps is far too unreliable to have ANY military or demolition uses, and none was a binary explosive.

Quit drinking the Kool-Aid.

[Roland99]

157. Truth doesn't matter to some people. But, what gets me is the images...

of all of the WMDs!!


Wastebaskets of Mass Destruction!


Where all the liquids and gels were being tossed into the same container. Doesn't seem like the proper way to dispose of chemical weapons precursors.

[Pavulon]

159. MY POST IS INCORRECT,CANT FIX IT NOW

nitro was used. That means this entire issue is fake. It never happened. Richard reid never tried to set off explosives in his shoe. Had a hard time with the cap.

Two russian jets didn;t blow up on the same day. That is all fake. That was the government, the cia did it. It is all made up to keep us under control. Like the matrix. Creedy will be by for me soon because of this post.

Mixing a clear liquid like kerosene (pick a refined hydrocarbon) and ammonium nitrate (which is available in powder form) in a Gatorade bottle and firing it off would have no effect on an aircraft. NONE. ANFO is not really an explosive compound easily made by people with no background. It certainly has never been used in a terrorist attack, ever...Oh wait.

I am just really afraid of the bogeyman.

[Name removed]

160. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pavulon]

163. Was trying to reply to the up level post

not directed at you. The bins were empty today. 2 water bottles and shitty lotion bottle.

This whole kool aid thing is stupid. These previous attacks were real. It is a bad move politically and otherwise to make this about other topics.

Either MI6 intercepted a plot to do this or they did not.

[Roland99]

165. I have no doubt something was afoot but the way this was done...

at the pushing of this administration, has tainted the entire thing.

It's turning this into another "Wolf! Wolf! Wolf!" incident (like the Miami 7)

[eridani]

164. So, how do you get a truckload of ANFO in a carry-on bag?

With ANFO, you'd need much more than you could carry, even if not a whole truckload. Which is probably why none of the options mentioned by the British investigators as being considered possibilities by the perps included it. And you wouldn't even need sniffer dogs to detect kerosene anyway. Helpful clue--it does not smell like face cream or Aqua Velva.

Do you remember that after the Reid attempt, matches and lighters were specifically NOT BANNED, let alone instantly confiscated from everybody on all international flights? Why do you suppose that was? Maybe because tobacco companies had kept up their payments to the Bush Crime Syndicate and the Aqua Velva men didn't?

[Pavulon]

169. Take chemistry get back to me

Ammonium nitrate can be mixed with a hydrocarbon, or molasses oddly enough, to form a high explosive. (.8 tnt)

You dont need a truck.. You can mix up batch of any reasonable size. 4 lbs is plenty.

I know what kero, jp4, and #2 diesel smell like. I know no one has ever smelled anything I have brought on a plane. Never seen a dog in the us.

This was MI6, so if you want to make it about bush go ahead.

The unified bush theory. Every event in the entire world is related and effected by bush...

I dont care to suppose. That is for people selling stock and other bullshit.

fact is you could make a bomb and carry it on if you chose to.

[eridani]

178. MI6 did not include ANFO among the various options

Not to mention which, it's a crappy option anyway. (See previously cited URL)

http://www.skepticfiles.org/new/201doc.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_transatlantic_aircraft_plot

One report suggests the plotters would use liquid/slurry explosives, chemically similar to solid explosives used in the 7 July 2005 London bombings (see organic peroxide), based on hydrogen peroxide and detonated by an improvised device incorporating a disposable camera flash.<27> There are several different types of liquid or gel-based explosives. Other news reports also mention a peroxide-based explosive.<36> United States authorities, the FBI and DHS, identified two peroxide-based liquid explosives that could be used: triacetone triperoxide (TATP) or hexamethylene triperoxide diamine (HMTD). Peroxide-based liquid explosives "are sensitive to heat, shock, and friction, can be initiated simply with fire or electrical charge, and can also be used to produce improvised detonators"<37>

The risk of terrorists using liquid explosives has been known since 1995. This particular threat was in no way, shape or form imminent. None of the plotters had even bought airline tickets, and some didn't even have passports. IMO we have just been subjected to an experiment to see how much crap we will put up with before saying "Enough already!"

[Pavulon]

196. Formulation of TATP

or any use of high concentration of peroxide is dangerous. Oxidizers can spontaneously com bust with great energy. I would not have done this when I had a proper lab and known concentrations of a given chemical. Nevermind some jugs that came from somewhere. I am sure plenty of these guys have blown themselves up with this compound.

I do not know explosives as an expert. But munitions are formulated with stable compounds that do not degrade from heat, shock, etc. When I transported it is was treated as an explosive and subject to special treatment. It was more of a fire hazard. Small arms were more concerning to me. (grenades, 20mm,25mm shells)than unarmed 155.

A binary explosive is quite capable of being made into a paste. I will not post the mix of an and fo to make the explosive. But it would not be a liquid.

It can be formulated in small batches.

I did not post this thread to discuss politics. It was a list of my experiences at the airport.

[eridani]

217. In other words

None of what the perps were planning on using works very reliably, correct? Does that not have some bearing on what kind of actual danger we are in?

[TommyO]

206. Yes, you are afraid

and are willing to give up freedom for the promise of perceived security. Tell me, I have a bottle filled with a clear liquid, I take a sip of it. What is going to be my reaction if it's kerosene?

[Pavulon]

209. Link

You are going to puke, have convulsions, and reek of kerosene. Wy wife has treated children with massive injuries from drinking the stuff. It is used for heaters in poor areas.

When I was young and stupid I siphoned diesel from a truck and got a few DROPS in my mouth, I was physically sick. Everyone laughed and told me how big of a f up that was. Then they gave me a hand pump.

http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/f?./temp/~fv3uQ1:1

[TommyO]

211. Exactly! Which is why it's stupid to ban water!

[noamnety]

171. 99 bottles of beer on the wall

I see two options. We put up with the benevolent government banning ALL books (you know they've been waiting for an excuse for that!), and making life so inconvenient that we will welcome the day they move to the all new screening machines that basically let the TSA agents view you naked - and we will view that as an improvement in our freedoms, because the wait will be shorter, or we revolt. With song. Every passenger, every flight where books are banned, sings 99 bottles of beer on the wall, for the duration of the flight, until the airline employees themselves call this shit off so they don't go insane. We ought to be making life equally unpleasant for them, through random acts of culture jamming and disobedience.

[RamboLiberal]

174. I think you bought the BS - sorry but IMO you're one of the sheep

Answer why they waited 10+ years to put this ban in to effect since that passenger you mentioned was killed in the mid-90's by Yousef planting the bomb on an airplane from nitro he smuggled in a contact lens solution bottle? All that time we've been flying with all those "dangerous" liquids in passengers carry-ons.

I'm sure the terrorists will just play by the rules and not just smuggle the explosive in strapped to their body. Hell drug runners and inmates manage to smuggle stuff all the time. Baggy clothing can hide an amazing amount of stuff. Distributed correctly on the body I'd bet you could smuggle enough past security. Bet you could put near a gatorade bottle in a hot water bottle which lies fairly flat. Or get yourself a colostomy bag. BTW, remember they said the bottles the terrorists were going to use had a false bottom so it couldn't have been that much liquid.

Or just have someone on the inside at the airport. Plane cleaners or food service workers could easily put this stuff aboard before the flight for the accomplices to find. We all know how carefully we screen airport workers these days. :sarcasm:

BTW they also need to ban powders since some of these explosives can be reduced to crystalline or powder form. Be a lot of ways of smuggling aboard powder.

Why aren't the U.S. airlines banning all electronics - hey they are the triggering devices? Want total security ban all electronics from both carry on and checked bags - that would also include electronic watches. After all Pan Am 103 was brought down by explosives hidden in a radio.

But we know Americans may give up their liquids but give up their cellphone, laptop, ipod, cameras etc. No way.

Hey, don't let the baby formula or baby food on either, if a terrorist is willing to suicide themselves why wouldn't they suicide their kid, or even kidnap a baby to use as a ruse to get the explosives on in the formula bottle. And making someone taste it is no answer since an explosive or explosive ingredient is not necessarily lethal to swallow.

What's to prevent the terrorists from just putting explosives in checked baggage? Even this liquid stuff? You could hook this stuff up to a triggering device like a cellphone. You don't even need to call the phone - just use one that turns itself on with an alarm.

IMHO both the U.S. and the U.K. lost their collective minds on this one. Real security experts are probably laughing their ass off.

Good intelligence could've prevented 9-11 and apparently good intelligence broke this plot before it ever got off the ground - literally.

I'd rather trust my life to good intelligence keeping the terrorist off the plane than feel secure cause we are now all inconvenienced by having to check in our liquid toiletries. If they want us to do that then the airlines need to get more personnel working at check-in, they need to get us our bags quicker and not lose them at our destination and TSA needs more agents working the security lines.

[Pavulon]

197. Yep, quitting my job

monday...Taking xanax to get over my fear. Cant fly every month anymore...

If I did not run over one of millions of mines in the wonderful former yugoslavia I am pretty sure I will not catch it from some ass on an airplane.

I worry about traffic more. Your (hypothetical) kid on a cell phone is my worst fear. Sitting at a light and little lisa slams into my car at 60.

Drinking a long chain hydrocarbon (kero, jet fuel, diesel) will cause a violent reaction in your body.

http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/f?./temp/~fv3uQ1:1

[bridgit]

180. we were at oakland international the better part of the day, and while...

there was a constant stream of PSA's through the intercom regarding the new policy regarding fluids/liquids, and the near invocation to be ever vigilant toward suspicious individuals & unattended packages; the day was progressing smoothly, security personnel reported the last couple days as particularly troublesome, but that by Sat things were being dealt with

my view of the 'bottom line' is that in spite of our current regime of so-called republican leaders & their inability to do anything but stroke their own wanks, Americans are dealing with what 'they' have wrought more, or less, just fine

[Buns_of_Fire]

189. True, we're dealing with it. But do most of us have a choice?

By the time people are in that line, tickets have been purchased, reservations have been made, timetables have been set, and perhaps people at the other end are setting their plans to meet you at the airport at the designated time. People in the "home stretch" are over a barrel, and they know it.

The last time I flew (2003 -- which probably was my last flight), I would have loved to tell security to stuff it sideways when they sniffed the contents of my $50 bottle of tequila, said "it smells dangerous," and proceeded to confiscate it in addition to pouring the small amount I had it my flask into what looked like a spitoon. I would have loved to say, "Gimme that damned bottle. Screw you, your airline, the TSA, your relatives, your children, your pets, and anyone who dares to say 'hello' to you. I'm outta here!"

Ah, but common sense kicked in (it sometimes does), and I realized that if I wasn't on that flight, I'd be virtually stranded -- 2,000 miles from home, with no alternate, and a deadline the next day. So I gritted my teeth and took it.

I suspect many people standing in line are in much the same position. Minus the bottle of tequila, of course. :-)

[bridgit]

191. sure, the choice is to vote out these criminals currently in office...

my sense is that your larger question speaks to many a contemporaneous fact of America 2006, used to couldn't even see women in a bra on TV, used to could walk round many major downtown urban areas without fear of being shot, used to only have one method of mowing a lawn...push mower

after hezbollah dropping the barracks on the marines, 1st world trade bombing, embassy bombings, kobar towers, u.s.s. cole bombing, 2nd trade tower disaster; and a multiplicity of contentious droplets all around the world, it HAS to be folly to think nothing would have changed any further

in the end it will be the american people who pull this out, cause our current leaders do not coalesce around our values imo...

[Violet_Crumble]

184. Maybe if you'd been flying internationally you'd have a point...

I haven't seen anyone say that domestic flights even in the US and UK have the same stringent rules about carry-on luggage as international flights departing the US and UK now do, so it's no shock at all that you could take stuff into the cabin except for liquid....

That bombing attempt using binary explosives was back in 1995, wasn't it? If it is, then I wonder why it took over ten years to hike up the security measures for cabin baggage?

[Pavulon]

198. Who knows

Another poster corrected me. They used nitro to do that. How he man managed not to blow himself up is a miracle.

My post was basically saying that the travel change had a minor impact on me.

[wtmusic]

203. This response by Homeland Security is depressing.

As if someone wanting to blow up a plane will try to use a liquid now.

As if they won't be able to come up with a suitable alternative.

As if there's anything that could stop them now that we've handed them the motive.

As if one smuggled Stinger AAM, fired from a secluded area miles from an airport, wouldn't be more effective.

As if our band-aids will be a match for their knives.

As if. :eyes:

[dave123williams]

214. So, maybe you should just drive there. Fuck the Airlines.

Those 'heroes', these free-marketeers who elbowed their way in front of 911's widows and orphans, so that they could get a 15 billion dollar bailout front congress the first chance they could? I guess the second they met a real-market condition, their philosophy just kind of went out the window in a mad scramble for government money. Fuck them.

[savemefromdumbya]

218. are they doing this on subways and trains and boats too?

[Freedom_Aflaim]

219. Binary explosive are real. Screening for them is BULLSHIT

Fact is you cannot stop liquids from getting though.

They dont setoff metal detectors and can be smuggled in via plastic bags strapped to the body, or IN the body (ouch!)

Nothing short of strip search and body cavitys exams will stop this particular threat.

The state of airline security now only annoys honest people.

[ScreamingMeemie]

221. I think it depends on the airport, but I am glad you were treated well.

One experience does not bespeak the whole.

[AZBlue]

224. THANK YOU for the much-needed reality check. (nt)