The Opposite of Empire-Building

[Boojatta]

Instead of becoming illegal immigrants, could people congregate in the country they are citizens of and then unilaterally declare themselves part of an independent sovereign nation?

[Sinti]

1. I think that wouild be a separatist movement

Recently attempted in Quebec. Generally these things lead to civil war at best, shotgun social control at worst. But, I guess we're all gonna die anyway :shrug:

[Boojatta]

2. The status quo for dividing nations sounds rather uncivilized.

Generally these things lead to civil war at best, shotgun social control at worst.

Typically, if a company has various divisions and sells a division, then the sale is finalized without a shot being fired.
Employees who don't want to be under new management can try to get hired by the original company or by some other company.

Maybe the most important point is that a company doesn't try to hold on, at any cost, to all divisions of the company. If selling a division looks worthwhile, then a division may be sold.

[Sinti]

3. Yes, but it's the company selling the division

If the U.S. decided to "sell" California to Mexico no shots would be fired. Rightly or wrongly, not all the choices made in a nation are made by its citizens, just like not all (if any) choices in a corporation are made by its employees. You and I are their property, in a sense, and are not given a say in most decisions.

[Boojatta]

4. Big companies sell divisions, but big countries don't often sell land

If the U.S. decided to "sell" California to Mexico no shots would be fired.

Such transactions are so rare that it is difficult to foresee what would happen. Are you sure that no shots would be fired? When was the last time that a country sold a parcel of land even one hundredth the size of California? I mean sold to another country, not sold to people governed by the seller.

not all (if any) choices in a corporation are made by its employees.

Employees aren't born into their jobs. People apply for jobs and have an absolute right to refuse a job offer. They can refuse a job offer based on the age, gender, race, religion or any other characeristic of the person who is making a job offer. To accept a job offer is to agree to the terms of the offer, including restrictions on the power of the employee to make choices on the job.

Rightly or wrongly, not all the choices made in a nation are made by its citizens (...)

You and I are their property, in a sense, and are not given a say in most decisions.

I thought it was supposed to be the other way around: governments deriving their powers from the consent of the governed.

[Sinti]

5. I thought it was supposed to be the other way around

I thought so too. This is the case in textbooks, but try to push that assumption in the current climate, I think you might be surprised by the reaction.