Why the hell doesn't Israel have to DISARM!!!

[bigdarryl]

There the ones who have the planes and bombs.

[matcom]

1. "They're"

THEY'RE

:D

other than that.... no probs

[Joe Bacon]

3. one simple answer...

AIPAC.

[Fredda Weinberg]

2. 'cause they're a sovereign state

unlike Hezbollah

[ShortnFiery]

4. Because, like the USA, who's gonna make them? eom

[dogday]

69. But are they not attacking another

sovereign state? :shrug: just sayin

[slackmaster]

5. "Israel has a right to defend itself(TM)"

:hide:

[OregonBlue]

29. Defend itself or commit mass murder against civilians. There is

a difference but it appears they don't know what that difference is!

[Selatius]

6. You're better off asking Israel to reveal its nuclear weapons program n/t

[maxsolomon]

7. you aren't serious

hezbollah is not a state. it is an armed group outside the control of the state in which it exists. the IRA had to disarm, not Great Britain. merge Hezbollah's militia with the Lebanese Army, and then its an equivalent condition.

israel has little choice but to be a fortress, albeit the most irrationally shaped fortress ever.

[AlamoDemoc]

8. Asking Israel disarms is like asking US to disarm…and that's NO, NO.

[cali]

24. I don't have any interest in

having the U.S. disarm. I want less money going to the military, but I don't want us to disarm.

[AlamoDemoc]

35. It is the thinking of many US diplomats that the US Foreign Aid to Israel

maintains the "Military-lndustrial Complex" here in the US. Therefore you can't separate the two.

[gunsaximbo]

9. Why the HELL do we have to give

Israel billions of our dollars every year to cause trouble for us?

[rockymountaindem]

14. Why do people keep asking this question?

The answer is easy to find. You're already on the internet...

[AlamoDemoc]

16. Having satellite army in the Middle East gives us advantage.....

....in the region. Our interest in the region depends on having proxy army like the IDF.

[AusGail]

52. proxy or poxy?

[AlamoDemoc]

59. Do you care whilst Israelis are killing civilians where Proxy, or Proxy

[adriennui]

19. the same reason we give egypt billion of dollars.

[rockymountaindem]

21. Ding ding ding!!!

Now maybe our other contestant would like to go for *two* dollars by telling us what reason that is!

adriennui, I can't believe that all these people who think they know about the Mideast situation have no idea why we send Israel all that money.

[adriennui]

26. they're either very naive or pretending their idiots

their motives are suspect any way you read it.

[MannyGoldstein]

10. Remember World War Two?

Remember how the US didn't have to disarm, but the Nazis and so forth did?

Same reason.

[Wiley50]

38. I have an honest question, no harm intended

After WW2 why didn't Britain and US just give them part of Germany for a homeland
instead of giving them the Palastinians homeland?
Germany deserved it.

My understanding of the history of this is limited

so I'm just honestly asking someone
to fill me in on thew subject

I'm not trying to throw gas on a flame war

[rockymountaindem]

41. Three reasons

Firstly, the allies wanted a strong, united Germany as a bulwark against the Communists. The French were originially against this, but as the French Communist party gained in popularity in the immediate postwar period, their conservative government realized that Germany would be a good way to keep the commies at arm's length.

Secondly, because after the Holocaust, why would the Jews want to live in Germany? Furthermore, giving away part of Germany to the Jews would have made a lot of Germans think that Hitler was right, and that the "world Jewish conspiracy" really was plotting to weaken Germany, this at the time we were trying to de-Nazify the country.

Thirdly, because world Zionism had been trying to establish the Jewish homeland in the area of the former Jewish kingdom for over 50 years at that point, and the world community along with the Zionists identified Jews with the Biblical Jewish homeland. Establishing the Jewish state in Germany was never even concieved of as far as I know.

As an interesting side note, Stalin created a "Jewish homeland" in the USSR along the Sino-Soviet border in the 1930s. He hoped that all the world's Jewish communists would move there, thereby populating a militarily strategic area and fortifying it against Chinese and Japanese attack, as well as supposedly getting the Jews to move away from the power centers of the USSR in the West. Hardly any Jews immigrated there, and they never became the majority of the population. Jews of the Diaspora really wanted to move back to the Mideast, and didn't really care to pick up sticks just to move to yet another far-away land.

[Wiley50]

47. Thanks for filling me in

But, I sure wish the Israeli government was kinder

[defendusa2]

71. why didn't Britain and US

"After WW2 why didn't Britain and US just give them part of Germany for a homeland
instead of giving them the Palastinians homeland?"

Perhaps because the Palestinians didn't exist as a group until 1967.

No one complains that Great Britian created Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, Iraq, Iran, Egypt, Libya, Yemen, etc. Why do people only complain about the creation of Israel, a land continually occupied by Jews for 3500 years?

[AnOhioan]

75. Welcome to DU

Now that I have said that, I can do this..... :eyes:

[chunkylover55]

11. Perhaps because Israel is surrounded by a group of Arab nations that

don't acknowlege its right to exist and would like to see it destroyed.

[AlamoDemoc]

18. Perhaps every Arab nation offered peace to Israel once they...

....leave Arab lands in 2002.

[sushi]

23. Would you live

in a neighborhood where everybody is unfriendly? Why spend your whole life fighting the neighbors and expect people from other places to come and be a buffer between you and the nasty neighbors. Why not move to another neighborhood?

[cali]

25. That's just ridiculous.

Individuals are not nations. Picking up and moving from one neighborhood to another is unrelated to moving 6 million people. Have you ever heard of logic?

[sushi]

31. It's possible!

Read it here on DU! A suggestion that Israel moves to Wyoming or some other state. Plenty of room.

[cali]

32. Right!

And if you read it on DU, it must be true.

[sushi]

39. I did read it here on DU

and I think it's a great suggestion. It's one way to stop all this fighting. I can't think of any other country that is so resented, so hated. I don't understand why. Does Israel want to forever fight its neighbors? I don't understand why Israel doesn't want anything to do with the democratically elected government of the Palestinians.

[cali]

40. As I converse with you, I'm reminded of

a song from The Wizard of Oz- the one sung by the Scarecrow.

[sushi]

54. Stick to the subject

I see you're avoiding it by bringing up a song and then a book! If I'm so ignorant, I'd like to hear your explanation.

[burythehatchet]

63. she's got a great talent of insulting and attacking

posters without saying it directly. I'd alert her sorry ass and let the mods decide.

[sweetheart]

67. Really, surely there's room in montana

Then there would be no need for all these arms to be trading, and war killing,
and the same old persons on DU defending the apparent rationality of the dissonance.

[Misskittycat]

45. Partly because every other neighborhood the Jews moved to

massacred them, expelled them, and/or imposed lots of restrictions on them. After a few thousand years of this, it... you know ... gets kind of old.

The Jews in Germany really believed they were Germans, as much as American Jews believe they are Americans. Boy, did the German Jews get a surprise.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

12. Okay, for one

they'd be pushed into the sea. Second, while they may have "the planes and bombs," Hisbollah has the rockets and suicide bombs. How do we go about disarming them? Ask them nicely?

While I don't completely support Israel in the current operations (I think there was insufficent care to avoid civilian casualties, which is kind of hypocritical since they claim to be doing it to protect civvies), the idea of Israeli disarmament is incredibly ridiculous.

[msongs]

13. disarming = extermination for israel. good enough reason 4 you? nt

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sushi]

17. If those sovereign states

who have nuclear weapons don't want to give them up, then how on earth can we demand that Iran, also a sovereign state, doesn't get their own nuclear weapons??? Let me answer that. Because Iran is a terrorist state? Who is terrorizing the Lebanese now?

[Sgent]

27. Because Iran

agreed to not purse them (NPT), and to give them up if found with them.

Isreal never signed the NPT.

[k_jerome]

22. bingo.nt.

[The Straight Story]

20. Whose gonna make em? (nt)

[sushi]

28. Exactly, who's gonna make them

This is about who will dominate. It shouldn't be this way. I know which side I'm on, but I understand the resentment of the opposition.

[cali]

30. What side are you on?

I'm not even sure what you mean by sides.

[sushi]

42. What do you think?

In a dispute, I like to imagine what both or all sides are seeing and thinking by putting myself in their place(s). You try it! You will come to the conclusion that the only way is to get together and figure out a way to live together peacefully. Not by trying to beat each other to death. Nobody wants to be dominated.

[The Straight Story]

37. Yeah, countries don't just give up arms (especially nuclear ones)

And I don't think anyone wants to try and make them do it because of the nuke factor.

Then again - what country would want to give up it's arms? We sure as hell wouldn't, and I would not want us to either.

[JohMunich99]

33. Yeah...

The last person to suggest that the United States simply consider reconsider its policy of full support for Israel was an Illinois Senator in the 70's. When he was up for re-election right after that, his opponent recieved a massive amount of money and defeated the incumbent. Since then, no one has suggested anything close.

Hmmm.... I wonder why Israel doesn't have to disarm.

[Freedom_Aflaim]

34. Because they dont want to

And nobody is big enough to make them.

And those rules pretty much apply to all states.

[bridgit]

36. you will not have seen Shit Bonkers till you try to disarm Israel...

[treestar]

43. Because they are not labeled "terrorists."

:sarcasm:

[cali]

46. I'm sorry, but this is just so silly.

Why doesn't the U.S. disarm? Why doesn't China disarm? Why doesn't Russia disarm? Why doesn't France disarm? \

What do all these entities have in common?

[treestar]

49. Size and the ability to dominate?

Which apparently does not work that well, after all.

[sushi]

50. Good question

Keep going. Why doesn't India disarm? Why doesn't Pakistan disarm? etc. Are you saying these entities have democracy in common? Perez Musharaf is a dictator, and he is backed by the US, the country that demands democracy in others! Meanwhile, the Palestinians and the Iranians democratically elected their governments, but they apparently elected the wrong people, because the US doesn't like Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Israel doesn't like Hamas. Please explain!

[cali]

51. er, no.

I'm certainly not saying they're all democracies. I'm saying they're all sovereign states, and they all maintain they have the right to arm and defend themselves. You can throw Iran and any Syria and any other nation you like in the mix. I'm also suggesting that the question being posed only about Israel is hypocritical.

[sushi]

57. Right, they're all sovereign states

So is Iran, so why can't Iran have its own nuclear weapons? Why the double standards. Iran can't have them because Israel is against it? How come tiny Israel gets to decide? I'm on the side of people who say everybody can have nuclear weapons (Iran apparently wants them and can afford them) or everybody gives them up. It's hypocritical to demand that Iran can't have them while others, including Israel and Pakistan, can have them. If you were born Iranian, wouldn't you see this as wrong? Wouldn't you resent it?

[cali]

61. First of all,

this thread was not about nuclear weapons, it was about why Israel doesn't have to disarm, and secondly, Iran is a signatory to the Nuclear non-proliferation pact, and neither Israel nor Pakistan is. As for how I'd feel if I were an Iranian, I wouldn't hazard a guess. These are simply facts. I'm not making a judgement about them, one way or the other.

[MrSlayer]

44. Because they are the Good Guys!

Didn't you get the memo? Israel good, Arabs bad.

[cali]

48. This thread and

comments like yours, remind me of a children's book I used to read to my kids called "The Stupids Step Out".

And it has nothing to do with being pro-Israel. It has to do with being pro-intelligent.

[MrSlayer]

53. Anything the neo-cons think is good, is bad.

Thinking otherwise to me is being stupid. I forgive your transgression.

[sufrommich]

58. What a comfortably numb

little black and white world you must live in.Unless you were being sarcastic,that's the most ignorant statement I've heard on this thread yet(and that's saying a lot!).So,upthread,when you snidely asked if we did not get the memo that "Israel good,Arab bad"you can automatically deduce that the exact opposite must be true because of a neocon position??Why bother thinking at all?

[MrSlayer]

60. Of course I was being sarcastic.

But that doesn't mean there isn't a hint of truth to it either. Just why are the neo-cons so giddy about the actions taking place in Lebanon? And how can anything that makes them happy be good for the world? These are people that love war and destruction and who want to escalate things in the region further. And we also cannot pretend that there isn't a faction here that believes Israel can do no wrong. It is because of my shades of grey thinking that I've not chosen sides or have a firm opinion on who's right and who's wrong. It's hard to tell when both sides are killing innocent people so wantonly. With that said, I wouldn't disarm if I was on either side and leave myself to the mercy of the other.

[burythehatchet]

65. Why don't you just insult people direct;ly?

instead of your idiotic references - "I took a shit this morning and it reminded me of your comments". Get a fucking life.

[New Earth]

55. are you really from Palmyra?`

i grew up there. what year did you graduate?

[Imagevision]

56. Israel wants to wreak as much damage by Sunday, then they must stop

if they don't piss off hezbollah too much and perhaps depending how many more civilians/kids are "accidently" killed, Sun day is a long way away still when you're bombing hour after hour 24/7...

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

62. If you want to go that route...

Maybe the United States should disarm first, eh? Set an example, as opposed to telling other people that THEY should disarm? How'd you like to live in a country with no defensive capabilities at all?

[mmonk]

64. In practical terms

you can't disarm a nation unless they have lost a world war or something of that nature. Stay in reality.

[FUGW]

66. For the same reason only the U.S. should have nukes,

we are the only ones responsible enough to have them. It's not like we would ever use them on civilians.:D

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sufrommich]

70. How very cryptic of you

Care to give us a little more info?

[mitchum]

74. A reference to our tax $$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[sufrommich]

76. Our tax dollars

go to a lot of governments of all different persuasions.Are they also "chosen people".When we provide weapons to the Saudis ,do you refer to them as the $audis?

[mitchum]

77. No, I refer to them as the "fucking $audis"...

frankly, I don't want any of my $$$$$$$$ going to violent pigs who base their rationale on variations of skygod mideastern fairy tales

Nice try on your part, though

[Tulum_Moon]

72. I belive the us should disarm

And so should Isreal. There would be a lot more peace in the world!

[Recursion]

73. Because they are surrounded by countries...

...that several times have invaded them without provocation.

[The Magistrate]

78. Locking

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