Al Franken was smoking today -- dismantled Fox enabler Juan Williams

[HamdenRice]

I have to say that as an African American, Al showed that he has a more nuanced understanding of black culture, politics and economics than Fox "House Negro" and "House Liberal" Juan Williams! He just politely dismantled the basic thesis of Williams' new book, Enough, which is apparently a Cosby-esque rant to the effect that the problems of black people stem from rap music and out of wedlock births rather than institutional racism.

Al's take on the cultural issues -- especially Dave Chapelle's Show -- was very sophisticated, while Williams sounded like someone who simply doesn't get the joke.

Al asked Williams whether he thought there was any positive rap music and Williams' answer made it obvious that he little idea who Khanye West is. Williams responded that he doesn't know the names of rap musicians because he doesn't like rap, and Al said that he doesn't either, but he didn't try to write a book about it!

At one point, Al mentioned that Williams describes Bill O'Reily as one of the most popular talk show hosts in the country, and seemed to endorse O'Reily's racist message, and Al took Williams to task for "enabling" him O'Reily by appearing on his show. Al even suggested that Williams portrait of black America was a form of "minstrelsy".

Very hard hitting on substance but very polite. Williams was completely rattled. Al really went after some difficult issues today. Keep up the good work Al and please do bring Williams back as you promised!

[burythehatchet]

1. A black man who sits around a Fox Noose round table

with his racist peers has no cred in my book. There's another black guy pimping a similarly themed book, 40 Million Dollar Slave. What's with these guys - oh yeah $$$$$

[newspeak]

27. who was the black architect

of the white house who was for slavery? I remember reading about him in history but can't remember his name. I guess as long as your free and rubbing elbows with the "elite" it's okay to go against your own heritage.

[speedoo]

2. Excellent summary.

It was also discussed in this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1887053&mesg_id=1887053

[zippy890]

3. thanks for the report - good for Al

:dem:

[Eric J in MN]

4. Unfortunately, Bill O'Reilly is one of the most popular talk show hosts.

He's got the #1 cable news show.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

33. if you are 72-86 yrs of age.

Keith O has a growing viewership between 18 and 65.

[Eric J in MN]

34. Bill O'Reilly has twice as many 25-54 year olds than Keith Olbermann.

On Wednesday, O'Reilly had 509,000 viewers in that demographic and Olbermann had 218,000.

http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/ratings/the_scoreboard_wednesday_august_9_41799.asp#more

[ChairmanAgnostic]

35. that's because KO is loyal to his mate.

O'Reilly has 3times as many 24-54, 55-65, and 66-72 yr females than most men, but then again, most men don't have to pay for it, either.

[senseandsensibility]

42. But Williams said in his book that O'Liely was the

nation's number one talk show host, period. Nothing about cable news. As Al pointed out, Leno and Winfrey, to name two, are much more popular. He admitted that he did not mention cable news in his book, but stated that his colleague was the most popular of any talk show host. These people are receiving millions of dollars for their writing, and they have fact checkers.

[Rex]

5. Yes, let us blame rap music and not the penal system for all the ills

in life. One gives, the other takes. I guess blaming the safe topic gets you a book deal. :eyes:

[NYCGirl]

6. And now he's on with Joe Conason for the next hour!

And they're both reminiscing about Katherine Lanpher, which is cool.

[BOSSHOG]

7. I don't like Juan Williams

but I felt uncomfortable for him while Franken was wielding the ginzu knives. Great Job Al. Can you imagine him sitting down with limbaugh for a half an hour. I can, but limbaugh would shun the truth like Dracula does sunlight.

[Cleita]

20. Al already has had a go at Limbaugh with his

book, "Rush Limbaugh Is A Big Fat Idiot".

[katinmn]

8. Thanks. Good for Al!

[Atman]

9. Williams is black?

I need to get a color tv.

[seemslikeadream]

10. as black as Condi

[Atman]

12. That explains my negative opinion of them.

Ba-doom. Thank you...I'll be appearing all week. Tell your friends.

[Reverend_Smitty]

13. Is "The Black Republican" a real magazine?

if so, I'd like to check out the circulation numbers...lol

[Atman]

15. I researched it once. It is published by a woman named Rice.

I hunted, but could find no familial connection. But the magazine had a troubled start up and I don't think it's two subscribers -- Juan and Condi -- were able to support it.

[seemslikeadream]

21. THREE!

Colin Bowel

Black?

[wryter2000]

30. You forgot Clarence

[Bucky]

39. Then they must have a cartoon section.

...or a centerfold.

FWIW, Juan Williams is no Republican. He's no Alan Colmes, either. But he goes for the pleasant, nuanced retort instead of the big hammer. He's Phil Donohue without the testicles, Aaron Brown without the vibrator.

[mitchum]

40. How could anyone forget "Good Ol' Clarence"?

loyal family retainer

[seemslikeadream]

16. Quite the difference in their photo and Annie Leibovitz's

I wonder which one is more realistic? :shrug:

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

31. Or a color radio n/t

[butterfly77]

11. Yes. I was just listening to that bull and..

I was trying to find an e-mail address to ask williams, what world is he living in that he can't see that O'lielly is a racist and full of shit. Every since bushit has been in the whitehouse a lot of political types have begun to show their true colors.

[wicket]

14. He doesn't know of any positive rap music??

In addition to Mr. West, he's obviously never heard Public Enemy either. Very politically charged lyrics.

Glad to hear Franken took him to the shed over this!

[Atman]

17. Is "Faithless" considered rap?

God...I LOVE "Reverence." The album is parts rap, part hip-hop, parts pop-ish something or other, but it is great music. Someone send Juan a copy. Personally, I don't think he's worth my 9.99

[Cleita]

18. When Al is on his game, he is smoking. n/t

[Atman]

19. When I'm smoking, I'm on my game.

How ironic!

[mtnester]

24. He lured him in beautifully in the beginning of that interview....

then, it was like shooting fish in a barrel.

[Judi Lynn]

22. Glad to hear your comments. I had given up on Al.

Too many "Oy, vey" segments long ago, and I collapsed.

Makes me think I probably left too soon.

Thank you very much. Glad he spanked Juan Williams, who has been such an unpleasant surprise. It's surely appropriate.

[ShortnFiery]

25. That's good news

Juan Williams really confuses me almost as much as Alan Colmes on Faux News.

I'm not "in the know" but I've not known any working or middle class African American Republican. Perhaps Juan Williams is Upper Middle Class?

In the same vein, I've not known a Democrat as sedate as Colmes ... it's painful for me to watch him tolerate the abuse doled out by that nasty Hannity and his knuckle dragging guests.

They both (Juan Williams and Alan Colmes) are very UNIQUE entities ... and it sort of creeps me out.

[Pirate Smile]

23. Kick and Recommend for Al.

[azmouse]

26. That was a great segment!

Way to go, Al!!!
:applause:

[gully]

28. " Fox 'House Negro' "

:rofl:

[johnfunk]

38. Does that make Armstrong Williams...

Air America's "House Negro" to be now that he's co-hosting the new morning show in September? Now that's going to be interesting... and this media junkie is hearing that Williams is getting a bit disenchanted with the Bush boy...

... which means that Free Republic will deem Armstrong Williams "Air America's House Negro."

:popcorn:

[gully]

43. Didn't know Armstrong Williams was hired by AAR.

eom

[NYCGirl]

46. He's not going to be on AAR, just the NYC station — since he already has

a contract with the station in NY they're moving to. If you live out of NYC or you're listening to the stream, you won't hear him.

Edited to add: Williams plays second banana to a liberal talker, Sam Greenfield.

[Mad_Dem_X]

29. That's why I love Al

He take somebody apart with precision, but he keeps his attitude and voice casual (for want of a better word). He doesn't have to raise his voice and get in somebody's face to make his (educated) points.

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

32. Great summary

I missed the start of the segment, and Williams's name didn't register with me, so what I heard was someone being dismissive of polite but pointed arguments by implying he knew better because he is an African American. Many liberals would back down from such a stand but Franken pressed on, not by being dismissive in kind but by backing up his arguments and standing by his opinions.

I understand that many DUers don't like some of Franken's centrist views - they prefer more fiery language and speculative opinion. But even where I disagree with Al, I admire that his views spring from a cohesive, comprehensive philosophy built on painstaking honesty and careful analysis. He doesn't fling bricks; he uses them to build a better world. I am a big admirer.

[glitch]

37. I agree with you. When he dismisses out of the box thinking I get pissed

but I still like him.

[NightHawk63]

36. Juan spoke at one of our FedEx African American Network events a while ago

Even though he was only one floor down from me in our auditorium, I refused to walk the flight of stairs to hear anything he had to say. Having witnessed the way he is treated on Faux, and how he just sucks it up, I knew that he didn't have anything to say that I wanted to hear. As I remember, Shit Fume had just recently said something blatantly racist on the air, and Juan just sat there like a turd and said nothing. So screw him and his ilk. "Bruthas" like that, I just don't need.

[mucifer]

47. Williams was on Rachel Maddow's show, too. She did not challenge him

as much as Franken did. I was suprised. Al did the interview in a very calm and intelligent way. I was impressed.

[Wilhelm Klink Reich]

41. The only objection I have with this post

and a few others in this thread, is that it seems like they are presupposing they understand the state of of affairs re: African Americans in our country today (instituionalized racism, penal system, etc) and dimssing at least somewhat valid criticisms brought from other perspectives.

Out of wedlock births are a problem, I'd say. And most of the rap music out there tends to alienate/offend more than it enlightens or offers positivity. You can argue that's just the status quo with commercial music of course..

But at any rate this seems like an extremely over-simplified analysis to me, one which points to the very real problems minorities face but seeks to use that as a means to absolve minorities of any culpability or personal responsibility.

[bananarepublican]

48. Negative music, out of wedlock births are symptomatic, not causative.

Not all rap music is negative. Has anyone heard any death-metal? Now that's negative. Not all unwed mothers are black.

My personal belief is that African Americans are doing exceptionally well when you consider every obstacle that has been put in their way since being kidnapped, sold, and shipped to the "United" States.

Look at the example set by MLK. He was a great leader who constantly looked for non-violent solutions to problems. How did the likes of J. Edgar Hoover respond?

Could the reason why so many white people live in gated communities be that they have a guilty conscience concerning their historical treatment of Native and African Americans? Are they subconsciously thinking... "We'll, I guess we've got it coming?" The irony is that they are voluntarily imprisoning themselves because they fear a practically non-existant threat.

[MindMatter]

44. Out of wedlock births DERIVE FROM institutional racism

We can talk individual accountability all we want, but the simple fact is that the American system ensures that urban neighborhoods and schools have the least of the resources. By systematically starving resources to people at the lowest economic ranks, society guarantees that the cycle of gangs, prison, prostitution, and children bearing children will continue.

It is not an either-or proposition. It is post hoc ergo propter hoc.

Bill Cosby and Bill Bennet. Asses of two different colors, but asses just the same.

[eleny]

45. See this thread as Williams will be interviewed on C-Span2 this weekend

With thanks to Viva_La_Revolution for this earlier thread -
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1891706

"Insightful author interviews
(Saturday 9 PM ET, Sunday 6 PM and 9 PM ET)
In his book Enough, Juan Williams, senior correspondent for NPR and political analyst for Fox News Channel, expands on the arguments made by Bill Cosby during his 2004 speech to the NAACP. He discusses the book with Michael Eric Dyson, author of Is Bill Cosby Right?"