Terrorist plot Fact thread

[LSK]

Ok, what do we know so far for sure?

The following seems to be common knowledge at this point:
The plotters were going to carry chemical explosives on carryon luggage hidden in common drink containers such as gatorade bottles to the airplane and "mix" them up and set them off with portable electronic devices disguised as mp3 players or watches or a car key fob or some combination of them.

The plot called for blowing up an unknown number of airplanes headed from the UK to the US over the Atlantic ocean.

The plotters were going to make a test run to see if they could get the chemicals aboard the airplane.

We know the plotters names:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4782343.stm

Two Britons were arrested in Pakistan:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4781925.stm

24 people are being held. The assets of 19 people were frozen.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4778889.stm

What else do we know for sure?

[soothsayer]

1. 10 planes, 5 planes, now 20 planes? So far that's not fact!

[LSK]

4. ok I change my OP to say an unknown number of planes

[snappyturtle]

2. I think it's all we're going to be told for "facts".

The rest of the story will begin with...."Once upon a time............

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

3. One minor modificaiton might be in order...

set them off with portable electronic devices such as mp3 players or watches or a car key fob or some combination of them.

The BBC says:

detonators disguised as electronic equipment.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4783141.stm

[LSK]

6. changed

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LSK]

7. im just trying to establish what is fact here

I dont want this to be a LIHOP/MIHOP flamefest. We had plenty of that already.

[InaneAnanity]

8. It's known

Not an argument anymore.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

9. Apparently they had not yet bought plane tickets

but were only beginning to search flights (on the internets)?
I think that's right.

[LSK]

10. i thought they had purchased tickets

Do we have any links confirming that they had or had not?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

12. It appears they had not.

The whole article is worth a read...
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20099061-601,00.html

Pakistan's military intelligence service also provided valuable information, and MI6, which deals with foreign security threats, consulted counter-intelligence agencies in Europe and northern Africa. US officials claimed yesterday that large sums of money were sent to leaders of the group from Pakistan to allow them to buy airline tickets.

British officials said several of the men had large sums of money in their bank accounts that could not be explained by their normal incomes.

Intelligence agents were adamant that the plotters had been within two days of conducting a test run to see if they could carry liquid explosives and detonating devices on to commercial fights to the US, and if they had succeeded, they would have quickly gone ahead with the mission itself.

There were conflicting reports on whether the plan was to destroy five, 10 or 12 jets, and whether they were to be brought down over US cities to maximise casualties or over the sea so that the method of explosion could not be detected.

[LSK]

15. how much do airline tickets cost??

I read somewhere they had jobs.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

16. Last-minute flights to the US... easily £1000 if not more.

So for a large number of people, it could be upwards of £10,000. Not a huge amount, but not small either, and certianly not explainable by a job if it showed up all at once. They must have had jobs, because as was stated earlier the amount(s) of money in the account(s) could not have been acounted for by their jobs.

[LSK]

17. we are talking about that amount divided up by 24 people

24 People with "normal jobs" cannot save that much money?

:shrug:

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

23. Probably they could.

On the other hand, to rely on personal savings in order to finance this sort of thing might be rather risky. :)

[uppityperson]

27. "test run" to see if they could get the stuff onto the planes?

Information is still coming in/being released. As Scotty says, ongoing investigation. But having it be 2 days of "test run" to see if could get stuff on plane gives more leeway on timing and buying tickets. Why buy tickets unless you knew you could get the stuff onto the plane?

[Oversea Visitor]

11. more red mercury?

talk about losing all rights.

[Sinti]

13. I still can't find if they actually had the explosive materials

Have they said? I saw pictures of the British police with laptops. Having portable electronic devices and insane ideas in one's head was not reason for arrest and imprisonment last time I checked. I haven't tested the law for quite some time, though... getting too old.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

14. I haven't seen any word on the explosives themselves. n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

18. I don't have a link but 'British agent inside group'?

Is that a fact?

[mainegreen]

19. We know that the chemists here have nixed the liquid idea.

or that if they were going to use liquid, it likely would have not worked.
Or so I've gathered.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

22. Do you have any linkage?

I'm a bit confused. If they planned on mixing the liquids on the plane, then I suppose they might have been able to bring them aboard separately, in a relatively safe fashion. But I know nothing about that sort of chemistry.

[LSK]

24. there have been a few chemistry discussions in GD today

[Jed Dilligan]

25. No chemist here but

apparently anything volatile enough to do this with would have to be mixed with special equipment, and would probably detonate on its own (from jolting on an x-ray belt, for instance) before it got anywhere near the plane.

Search for ProfessorGAC, his posts have been most informative.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

26. Ah, yes. The GAC.

I know him well. Glad to see he's on the case.

[stray cat]

20. Any attempt at a factual constructive discourse is appreciated

and beneficial - thanks for the attempt.

[Warren Stupidity]

21. K&R to keep this visible.

Conspiracy speculation this is not. One important thing DU has been for me is a resource for credible data on incredible events. Lets keep this thread alive as an archive of good data.

[LSK]

28. kick

Did any of the plotters purchase tickets or have chemicals?