Hey Everyone : No tickets were purchased, no reservations made!

[yellowcanine]

What were these terrists going to do, walk up to the counter and purchase tickets on 12 different international flights in the middle of a busy tourist season? I smell a damn rat and it looks like Dick Cheney.

[Broken_Hero]

1. from what I took from the KO

show tonight, they weren't going to fly, but just started looking at flying schedules...

[yellowcanine]

7. Guardian story says attack was planned for next TWO days.

One is going to have tickets bought to get people on 12 different flights from London within a certain time period to certain cities in the U.S. in the next two days. Rat smell getting stronger.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,,1842272,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=12

[mr_hat]

24. Yep. Last minute ticket sales are a telltale

for the authorities to take a closer look. Presumably, the bombers would have been among the those arrested, below.

So lessee... Sophisticated binary explosive. Check.

Last-minute tickets on US-bound flights bought by/for young Muslims. Check?

· Abdula Ahmed Ali
DoB: 10/10/1980

· Cossor Ali
DoB: 04/12/1982

· Shazad Khuram Ali
DoB: 11/06/1979

· Nabeel Hussain
DoB: 10/03/1984

· Tanvir Hussain
DoB: 21/02/1981

· Umair Hussain
DoB: 09/10/1981

· Umar Islam
DoB: 23/04/1978

· Waseem Kayani
DoB: 28/04/1977

· Assan Abdullah Khan
DoB: 24/10/1984

· Waheed Arafat Khan
DoB: 18/05/1981

· Osman Adam Khatib
DoB: 07/12/1986

· Abdul Muneem Patel
DoB: 17/04/1989

· Tayib Rauf
DoB: 26/04/1984

· Muhammed Usman Saddique
DoB: 23/04/1982

· Assad Sarwar
DoB: 24/05/1980

· Ibrahim Savant
DoB: 19/12/1980

· Amin Asmin Tariq;
DoB: 07/06/1983

· Shamin Mohammed Uddin
DoB: 22/11/1970

· Waheed Zaman
DoB: 27/05/1984

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

2. Plausible

It isn't that hard to get tickets, and perhaps the main attack was weeks away. All it takes is money, and if they had $$ support, then it is easily done. Think about it logically for a second. It's not like they would do it on a day when there were no seats, and could easily manage it. Perhaps they had targeted 9/11/06.

[The Stranger]

4. I guess the problem is that to commit a crime, you have to do something.

Simply thinking about something is not enough -- or was not enough.

Maybe now thinking about something is a crime.

[yellowcanine]

5. Guardian story says attack was DAYS away. Not weeks. I am sorry but

no one counts on getting tickets on 12 flights from London to the U.S. in August at the counter. Not anyone with any experience flying anyway.

On edit: Link to Guardian story
http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,,1842272,00.html?gusrc=rss&feed=12

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

11. OK....Then Days Away....

I've gotten long distance tickets on a few days notice. Days away can mean 14 days, how do we know what the hell they're talking about? Not like I imagine they're being honest with us.

If there was a 9/11 connection, then perhaps a test run in 10 days, around the 20th, with the actual attack on 9/11. It's not that implausible. You're exaggerating the difficulty of arranging 10 tickets on flights 7-10 days away.

[Iwasthere]

9. They said test was two days away and the real deal three days away

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

13. They Did?

2 days and 3 days? That makes no sense. Who said that? The Guardian, or an official? That seems less likely. But still possible. You're only talking about going online and booking 10 tickets.

I'm sure we'll learn more, or at least what they want to tell us, tomorrow or next week.

[mtnester]

16. So, test two days away, if successful, they flight to the States..

then as they are FLYING BACK...boom on the tarmac or as close to the building or another plane as possible, or as they are flying over a neighborhood.

So, IF this pans out as the plan, then the attacks were most likely planned for the return trip?

[elehhhhna]

21. THAY also said Saddam could nuke us faster than Dominos delivers pizza

ANd Iran has been "16 days away from Nookyuler" bombs in March and again this week.

16 days, 16 words, wth is their thing about 16?

[Canuckistanian]

20. That's the $64 question - Did they have the money?

Money, technical support (Was their bomb feasible? Did they have the skills and material to build it?), logistical support (plans, coordination, alternate schemes?) and finally, the guts to actually go through with it. Young twenty-somethings are big talkers, but their plans are often well, not planned so well.

[Turn CO Blue]

26. It's pretty hard to get tickets right now. I work for an airline and

we haven't seen load factors this high since pre-9/11. We have been running a huge percentage (90%)of our flights sold to capacity or oversold. Even our flights to El Paso are oversold. (ha ha, no offense to people in El Paso meant.)

[spooky3]

27. If they had lots of $ then they could get business class and avoid

the new security precautions.

Today's WaPo says that first class and business class passengers don't have to go through the same screening (I guess they can take their contact lens solution aboard with them).

So how hard would it be to get OBL's approval for the upgrades?

[The_Casual_Observer]

3. That's probably because the plot was bogus & they didn't

have any money to buy any tickets.

[Wheezy]

6. I think

the point is, they didn't need money. They got the response they were after.

[yellowcanine]

8. Coud be that bin Laden just jerked the three stooges' chain big time.

Three stooges being being Tony, George and Dick.

[Rainscents]

10. This whole story stinks real bad!

I have excellent sense of smell too!

[slaveplanet]

14. The peroxide story

is completely bogus as well...utter bullshit

They'd have to have labs to refine organic peroxide to the proper strength, it's not something you can just go and buy, and when they get it that strong they'd better have a hovercraft to take it to the plane, because it's so unstable it makes nitro glycerine look stable.

This whole story counts on the ignorance and gullibility of the general public.
pure propaganda op.

It's almost as if they don't care if a certain segment of the public knows it's BS, they're just counting on the uninformed public to be frightened idiots.

[Snivi Yllom]

23. 100% wrong, Richard Reid had TATP in his shoes, acetone peroxide

You are 100% incorrect.

Richard Reid walked on it in his shoes. He was using it as a detonator for a plastic explosive.

TATP is a frequently used homemade explosive used by the Palestinians and was also used in the London bombings last year. It's relatively easy to make, however very unstable and dangerous to handle. Many have been killed or maimed making TATP.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=peroxide+explosive

you can get the recipe

it's the real deal

http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Briefs/4884.htm

Israeli invention detects TATP explosives
By: Israel Insider staff and partners
Published: January 27, 2005


A relatively new difficult-to-detect explosive material called triacetone-triperoxide (TATP), commonly known as acetone peroxide, is one of a group of explosives based on the unstable peroxide group of
compounds. It is increasingly being utilized by terror groups, who used it in the Dolphinarium Disco massacre, several bomb attacks in downtown Jerusalem, and the failed attempt to down a passenger plane by Muslim shoe-bomber Richard Reid.

One of the most alarming attributes of TATP is that it cannot be detected by bomb-sniffing dogs, making it easier to smuggle into airports and onto airplanes. It is also very easy to synthesize in clandestine labs, using readily available chemicals.

"To our great surprise," PET's inventor, Prof. Ehud Keinan, Dean of the Technion's Faculty of Chemistry, wrote in the Journal of the American Chemical Society, "we discovered that TATP is very different from all other conventional explosives in that it does not release heat during the explosion. It explodes by rapid decomposition of every solid-state molecule to four gas-phase molecules. This rare phenomenon, scientifically known as 'Entropic Explosion', is reminiscent of the rapid reaction that produces gas in the safety air-bags of cars during accidents."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetone_peroxide

Many people have been killed or permanently injured by accidents with acetone peroxide. It is widely used by people who want to make homemade explosives because of its low cost and ease of manufacture. They often have no idea of its extreme sensitivity, or they make it anyway solely because it's cheap and can be made in a refrigerator. There is a common myth that the only "safe" acetone peroxide is the trimer, made at low temperatures: "If one is making tricycloacetone peroxide, the temperature must be less than 10 °C at all times, otherwise the product formed will be dicycloacetone peroxide, which is so unstable and sensitive that it has no uses in the field of explosives: dicycloacetone peroxide has been known to explode spontaneously." In reality, the acid-catalyzed peroxidation of acetone always produces a mixture of dimeric and trimeric forms. The trimer is the more stable form, but not much more so than the dimer. All forms of acetone peroxide are very sensitive to initiation. Organic peroxides are sensitive, dangerous explosives. The military does not use them because there are many much better alternatives. Even for people who synthesize homemade explosives, there are many far safer alternatives. Even nitroglycerin is not nearly as sensitive as acetone peroxide.

It is believed that Acetone peroxide was used as the explosive in the 7 July 2005 London bombings.<2> This however is debated by some conspiracy theorists, who believe government organisations may have synthesised such a story about use of acetone peroxide to add credibility to the official report. <3> However, it cannot be proved one way or another, and the fact still remains that this chemical compound may be used for such a purpose as terrorism.<4> It is alleged that Richard Reid (shoe bomber) was found with equipment that may have been used to cause explosions using TATP.

[slaveplanet]

29. what he said

I'm with the chemistry professorGAC...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1884749#1885077


TATP Is EXTREMELY Shock Sensitive EXTREMELY. That's why it is only manufactured and handled under incredibly delicate and low volume conditions in industry.

That's my problem with this story, as someone extensively educated in chemistry. The kinds of things that would allow this story to be more than an idle threat by 24 idiots, are very difficult to make efficiently, very difficult to isolate, and very difficult to handle without blowing one's self up. I sincerely do not believe that these guys would make it to the plane with something liek TATP without self-detonating.

In addition, TATP is still a low velocity explosive. It's subsonic in detonation velocity, and does not produce an extensive overpressure wave.
The Professor...


When They're Immersed. . .

. . .they don't detonate. That's how the mass transport is facilitated in industry. Lots of explosive crystals are handled that way. (Most detonation initiators are crystals that can individually detonate if they are just a little too big!) In suspension, or in solution, they will not generate the molcular propogation necessary to detonate. That's why they move them around in slurries. It prevents tragic accidents in industry.

BTW: You do know that when Reid was caught, even the experts, using military detonators could not get his device to explode. It was destroyed because the detonators simply inicinerated the device. The device itself did not detonate.

The Professor

[pitohui]

12. i smell the same rat

i doubt anyone was in any danger, they sure as crap weren't in danger today

[C_U_L8R]

15. Arrested for googling ?

not saying they weren't bad guys.... just the
apparent lack of real evidence is worth invetsigation

[Little Star]

17. Plus, an informant had penetrated the group.

That reminded me of those Florida teens and the Sears Tower. I heard that bit of info on Sky News. Still, I'm not sure that this was totally bogus. Britain security spokesperson only said thank you to Pakistan when giving a news conf. this am. No TY to the USA. That added to the credibility for me.

[mtnester]

18. Did anyone besides me hear the caller on Mark Riley's show this AM from

the Dallas/Ft. Worth airport printing office? I suspect I heard a man losing his job live on the air...speaking about the printing of the new chemical restriction signs 2 WEEKS AGO, and ordering the new plastic baggy/mailers AROUND A MONTH AGO. This man stated he was head of that print shop, so nothing goes in and out that he does not know about, and when he went to look at the work order on his computer, it was gone.

My husband, who is the slow, thinks forever before he speaks kind of guy, was IMMEDIATELY suspicious of the incredibly fast amount of time those signs got made in. He said, yeah, I know Kinko's is open 24 hours, but it seemed like those signs MAGICALLY appeared.

I understand about rounding up suspects and getting that done, and making sure that ALL of them get picked up, but if anyone knew about this threat, and kept it to themselves for THAT LONG...well, my mind gets pretty made up pretty quick about the TIMING ONLY of the release...

These fuckers, and I am with Plaid Adder on this, are GLEEFUL about this..to use her word - STOKED

We gotta fight back...the Dems HAVE to come out strong, today, now IMMEDIATELY to counter the BS that this launched that our party is weak on Terror...and we need to make sure the ASSHAT who said it FIRST - Lieberman - gets the sock for his mouth soon.

OK...off to get more espresso.

[europegirl4jfk]

19. German TV says that they had purchased tickets online

and that the attack was planned for next Wednesday.

[PATRICK]

22. Scouring the media worldwide

about the plot, it would be better to list the statements and priority of releases from the respective governments- quickly before leaks, special sources and journalistic research add their two cents. I heard Chertoff trying to make the point about an undercover agent. That was something we did not need to know and was possibly perilous to said agent. But it was politically expedient to the US which- habitually now- -lays waste defensive measures while scoring points for defense. But I am not sure if WE mentioned it first. They realize that the memof simple police work was spreading to create a critical reaction they want suppressed in favor of further Bush exploitation. Since before 911 that is the only thing driving our government and our news- how to isntantly make all things, including failure, work for Bush.

You see, the problem is not an incident or plot at all. It is how everyone's passion and mind is diverted away from the more interesting story for the future of the world- how prepared the governments are to exploit the situation. Our "eternal vigilance" as crooked administrations begins there and our astute monitoring and critiques should too.

Bush on vacation. Blair out of the country thinking he had plenty of time to deal with the plot later. Both knowing well in advance. They were PREPARED all right. Luckily for Britain it sometimes includes efficient anti-terrorist work.

On 9/11 let us remember the visceral preoccupation with the event. it was physically hard, emotionally sickening, to turn the mind and the conversation to the monumental failure of security and the way things were being spun and exploited continuously, relentlessly. While the crowd stared in horror at the falling bodies, our purported leaders, whose failure caused the incident, were quickly picking the pockets of the crowd. Then they made some token speeches and prepared for a war they wanted by continuing to mesmerize a traumatized public, a victimized populace, with the awful distraction. It was hard to think the event could have been prevented had Gore been in office. It is relatively easy now to say it very likely would have been.

Similarly it is swimming upstream to tear our minds away from the bomb plot element and look at the real story- that involves more lives and consequences than even the loss of ten airliners. Get back to Lebanon, to the forgotten march against Iran, to the issue of the US tissue homeland defenses and ruined Intel assets, to the ruinous Iraqi occupation, to the increasing fall-back to the nuclear line, to the well prepared political spin, the talking points that now include "Independent"(independent from democracy apparently) Fighting Joe Lieberman.

We are still driven, even as disbelieving critics to dance to the same MSM bullets whether they create the topics or events are bent to their needs. The grim task is get to the core ASAP of government exploitation of events and how they came to pass in the first place. The Israeli people are a prime example of the stampede. irresistible in the trauma of attack and war, the main success so far has been to rally the people and bend the truth. It was nearly impossible for even the most dedicated peace groups to break out of that natural stampede.

In a western when rustlers shoot their guns and cause a stampede the ordinary folk first deal with all those rampaging cattle. Then Hollywood sometimes pushes in unlikely efforts against the shooters. In real life the miserable victimization of the people is what continues no matter what. Getting at the truth and causes and the perps is hard. Distracting and mobilizing the victims to lash out at a target of the choosing of their leaders or some trusted authority is child's(aka W) play.

What we need is a quick and thorough collation of all released information with background into connecting dots, with an eye to government action more than the bomb plot. One target, one shooter being missed is the US administration. Outing British sources in Pakistan years ago for a small political plus had the coincidental effect of possible setting up britain for more than a plot uncovering. Possibly could it have emboldened terrorists into thinking the british were in disarray because that outing may have enabled the bus bombings in London? What help has the almighty US really given? Why did Blair think he could have or should been out of the country? Do Blair's own people trust him? Not even a phone call. These and other facts and questions do not even smolder in the quick-witted journalistic brains of those reporting. They are the front lines, the pride of place, of the Great Stampede. One hopes they will be the first off the cliff which by loss of their unused freedom to do their real job, they will be.

[WyLoochka]

25. Even if that were true

there was no valid reason to bring everything to a halt and aggravate, hassle and scare the thousands of people caught in airports yesterday.

They could have been arresting people while changing the regs for the next day. Since they already had the would be perps under tight surveillance, they knew there was essentially no more risk yesterday than the day before or today for that matter.

The only reason to make people already in the airports suffer through all the aggravation was so that there would be good fodder for teevee so as to heighten and dramatize fear-fear-fear throughout the world. And pumping up fear so Bush, Blair and Cheney can hold onto power is by no stretch of the imagination a valid reason.

[Joe Fields]

28. According to the BBC, tickets WERE purchased.

[yellowcanine]

33. Do you have a link for that report?

[mmonk]

30. Minority Report

[6000eliot]

31. The only question that matters to me is whether or not they actually

had explosives. They could fly wherever they wanted, but they couldn't blow up a single plain without explosives. If they didn't, this is just Jose Padilla redux.

[patcox2]

32. If they found explosives they'd be shouting it from the rooftops.

Its another "asperations" case.

[earth mom]

34. So does this mean there will be some apologies from the mud slingers

around here? Because I'm really tired of how they think every one is crazy BUT them and then post umpteen threads to prove it. :crazy:

Yup, it looks like the tinfoilers were right once again! :tinfoilhat: