Help Lebanon

[evox]

Send a letter to your government representative.
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Dear (insert name of the deputy, congress man or government official who represents you),

I am writing you in relation to the events in Lebanon. Today and luckily for humanity the world is increasingly connected and forming a global village. So, despite biased media reports for the benefit of Israel, we as citizens of the world have a clear idea of what is happening over there in that part of the world.

Israel is destroying Lebanon and any economic viability that it has been struggling to build over the past 16 years. Before that it was unleashing its terror and destruction on the people of Gaza. They are killing children, women and innocent civilians. Israel has been displacing families from their homes in villages ever since its establishment in 1948. In six days since July 12, 2006, it displaced over 700,000 people in Lebanon alone. It also pounded to the ground Lebanese people’s homes and infrastructure: roads, bridges, airports, ports, highways, energy plants and communication networks. These are all structures that we may have paid for with our tax money through international aid projects as we know that Lebanon’s post-war reconstruction was partly possible because of foreign aid to the then war-torn country. Israel has torn it away again, an entire country. It has no right to do so.
Israel is carrying out the same, if not worse, collective punishment that some of its people suffered during the first half of the 20th century.

We are constantly being told that we should appreciate the fact that we live in democracies, in the free world, where freedom of speech and expression are not an issue. We are also being told that our governments are waging a war against terror to protect us. But today we wonder whether such violent actions carried out by states, which use unrestrained and disproportionate force, clearly breaching international law and justice, are not but exasperating the problem by creating more angry people who are willing to bomb themselves in train stations and skyscrapers in an attempt to turn attention to the injustice they are enduring.

Based on our concern for our own security and based on the fact that we live in democracies where an individual’s freedom of expression holds the power to change and improve, we write to you today requesting the following:

Mobilize all diplomatic efforts to:
1. Stop the Israeli attacks on Lebanon and Gaza
2. Pressure the United Nations Security Council to meet immediately and issue a Chapter 7 Resolution condemning the Israeli attacks and imposing sanctions on the Jewish state in an attempt to prevent it from repeating these attacks in the future. The international community’s failure to treat Israel like any other belligerent state has led to its recurrent resorting to violence. Ten years ago, it committed the Qana Massacre in South Lebanon at a UN base. As it remained unpunished for its unlawful acts in Qana, Jenin, Sabra and Shatila etc. Israel allowed itself to commit the mass genocide in Gaza and Lebanon in 2006 using the same argument and justification “self-defense,” “fighting against terror” etc. But killing children and innocent is far from self-defense and fighting against terror unless it is the intention. Israel should face the same treatment as Saddam did when he invaded Kuwait and if it does not, we as citizens of (insert name of the country you come from) need to understand clearly why. Our country pays membership fees to be part of the UN, I presume it is our tax money. We expect and we have the right to request that this money is used effectively. No nation should enjoy the privilege over others to kill and the UN should be able to implement its charter the first article of which is “to Maintain Peace and Security.”
3. Pressure Israel through the UN or any other effective means to pay compensation for all the destruction it has caused at least since July 12, 2006.

I as a citizen of (insert name of the country you come from), and the free world, the policies of which supposedly rest on the sum of individual votes of choice, count on you to take my request into consideration and forward to action. Together officials and citizens can make this a better world for all races to enjoy.

Thank you in advance.

Best Regards,



(Insert your name)

[bbinacan]

1. Tell hezbollah

to quit their shit. They've launched over 3330 missles at Israel.

[MannyGoldstein]

3. But Hezbollah Has The Right To Do This

Don't you know that Hezbollah has the right to vow to destroy Israel and murder all Jews, and then unleash thousands of missiles aimed at civilians? Why on Earth would you ever think that Israel should try to stop them?

You must be a fascist nut or something.

[evox]

5. Look

“It’s very important to make the distinction between terror groups and freedom fighters, and between terror action and legitimate military action.” - Binyamin Netanyahu, former Israeli prime minister.

He’s exactly right. Hezbollah is the legitimate national resistance movement of Lebanon.

Just as all George Bush and the Pro-Israel Media have to say over the slaughter of Lebanese children is that Israel has a right to defend itself and all’s fair in the war against terrorists. That makes it doubly important that the anti-war movement raises its voice clearly. To be for peace means to be for the justice without which there can be no peace. To be for justice means to take sides against injustice. The invasion of Lebanon by Israel, for that’s what it is, is a monstrous injustice.

[question everything]

11. And what exactly is it resisting?

For 20 years Syria was occupying Lebanon, and, guess what, it built and supplied Hezbollah.

Israel withdrew from Lebanon six years ago so what, exactly, are they resisting?

And how many of the "dead civilians" are Hezbollah fighters?

Or do they just evaporate as martyrs, ready to bed 70 virgins, while their remains stay behind in a form of a civilian casualty, a-la rapture?

[evox]

15. Get your facts straight

Syrian military were present in Lebanon but not as occupiers. There presence was not illegal. Either way they are not there any more.

As for Israel, Israel was forced out of MOST of the South of Lebanon in 2000. It STILL occupies a part of Lebanon since 2000.

So to say that Israel withdrew from all of Lebanon is not correct.
Besides that, Israeli warplanes routinely violated Lebanese airspace, often intentionally flying low over cities so as to create sonic booms that terrified the population.

I have no clue what you are trying to point out about the death of Lebanese civilians. The death of Lebanese civilians is the result of Israel's unlimited attacks on all areas of Lebanon, they are not only targeting Hezbollah militants as they claim. Hezbollah militants are located in the Southern most areas of Lebanon, the only way to get rid of them is through Ground battles over the border, which resulted in casualties and injuries of many Israeli soldiers since Hezbollah militants are very well equiped and are tough fighters.

[question everything]

19. If Syria was not there as occupier, why did it murder Rafiq Hariri?

A Lebanese Prime Minister who would not follow its dictate?

Why did the UN vote to demand that Syria withdraw from Lebanon? Why is Syria not considered an occupier? because both are Arabs? Because Syria is still dreaming about Israel and Lebanon being part of Greater Syria?

How much do you really know about the history of the region?

And what hypocrisy! You do not want to discuss Syria because: "Either way they are not there any more," but you dismiss the claim that the Israelis were not there any more either, until July 12.

Hezbollah, like any other terror organization hides among civilian population, the way the PLO did in 1982 when Israel tried to do the same.

There is no doubt that there are many Hezbollah fighters among the dead, but they do not report about them why? Because they purposefully blend among civilians.

Even reporters who report from Beirut describe neighborhoods that are under Hezbollah rule

[burythehatchet]

21. Wow, did you solve the Hariri murder?

[question everything]

23. The murder of Hariri

What does the report say?

Mehlis delivered his findings to United Nations Secretary General Kofi Anan on Oct. 20. His report found that top Syrian and Lebanese officials were involved in the detailed plans for Hariri's assassination over the course of many months. The report says the complex plot "could not have been taken without the approval of top-ranked Syrian security officials and could not have been further organized without the collusion of their counterparts in the Lebanese security forces."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/12/AR2005101201741.html

[evox]

38. Reassessing the Hariri assassination

Reassessing the Hariri assassination in the light of recent events:

http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2006/07/reassessing-hariri-assassination-in.html

[evox]

31. Hariri's real murderers committed their act

for the very same reason why you asked me that question. Here is the real fact:

No, Syria did not murder Rafiq Hariri. It was Israelis that murdered him and make it look like the Syrians killed him.
Think about this, Why would Syria kill an opposing figure if they were enjoying their "occupation" - as you like to call it - and would very likely result in the increased hatred of Syria. Let me answer this, again because Syrians were not occupying lebanese territory, they were asked to be there by the Lebanese government following the civil war to protect its borders.
Yes, many Lebanse opposed the Syrian presence in Lebanon, and Hariry was one of them, but he was not going to drive them away from Lebanon, so they have no reason to get rid of him. Also after he was killed, the Lebanese government asked the Syrian troops to leave Lebanon and they did. If they were occupying Lebanon, they would not have left easily without a fight.

It is a Fact and not a hypocracy to state that Syrins are not occupying Lebanon but Israel is. Israel still occupies Lebanese land since 2000. Look up Shebaa Farms. Until Israel pulls out of ALL of Lebanon, then they will not be considered as occupiers.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[evox]

44. I joined DU....

I joined DU to seek the truth, and by doing so, I found what I am debating for. But why have you joined DU? To label anyone that opposes your opinions a "conspiracy theorist" ? Besides, the discussion about Hariri's Murder was not the purpose of my post. I was simply englightening the person who mentioned it with a story other than the "official story". Ever heard that one before? It is then up to that other person to research that. I am not here to debate the Hariri's murder, but that is the story that I believe. Why is the version that I believe in can be called a conspiracy but the one you believe in is not?

As for the administrator's post, I have read it and I believe that the topic of my post is perfectly legit according to the rules as the war in Lebanon is a very serious current conflict, and no action is being taken by other countries.

[burythehatchet]

27. Don't bother, facts are absolutely meaningless

to Israel apologists.

[question everything]

37. And what are your facts? You challenged me about Hariri,

I replied, so you are trying to hind behind that OP's skirt.

Real character, real knowledge, real debating

(not)

[burythehatchet]

51. I tried debating for a few weeks

and basically got a lot of responses like your #36 above - "Oh my god another conspiracy theorist". If something doesn't fit with your narrative, its obviously a conspiracy theory. And no, I don't hide behind anyone's skirt. As far as character, knowledge, and debate, the observed cannot be the observer, so I'll have to rely upon your assessment. ;)

[Clarkie1]

65. You are so full of it.

"Israel has occupied a part of Lebanon since 2000."

Not according to the U.N.

That pile of dirt called Sheeba farms? You have got to be joking.

[Clarkie1]

64. Hezbollah is not legitimate.

They are an illegitimate militia in the sovereign (supposedly) state of Lebanon.

What are the resisting, exactly? The militia is made up of terrorists, who have used poverty to their advantage.

[stop the bleeding]

6. offer viable solutions to the problem please

I think that is what the OP is trying to do, you telling us the sky is blue does nothing to solve this problem:hi:

edit for bad spelling and grammar:blush:

[bbinacan]

7. I disagree

hezzbillies started this and now they're whining to the "international community"? You reap what you sow. I think the Israelis have been too restrained. If it were up to me, I'd hit those asses with a 6 day war style of attack.

[stop the bleeding]

9. simply amazing

violence begets violence, also I don't think HB has been whining to the "international community" If anything they have been getting even more embolden by this whole conflict.

Live a violent life you will die a violent death. There are other ways there always is - sometimes the way is not clear right away.

on edit: by no means am I supporting HB and I don't think the OP is either, but when have this ass kicking type attitude you end up with this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1866366

the people of Lebanon

[evox]

10. Why do you say Hezbollah started this?

Israel occupies their country and holds thousands of Lebanese as kidnapped hostages in their dungeons. The origins of this conflict are not four weeks or four years or fourteen years, but are decades old.

If you think about it, assume Canada invades the United States, and the United States captures Canadian soldiers as prisoners, those prisoner are not kidnapped since they are not in their homes, and besides they are soldiers not civilians. Also the capture of those prisoners is not the Reason why the conflict is taking place, but because Canada invades the U.S.

I hope I did not confuse you with that example. The whole idea is to Look at the bigger picture, this conflict did not start four weeks ago, but years ago, and because of Israel's illegal occupation.

[bbinacan]

12. This conflict started

3000 years ago, and we still get the same justifications.

[Ms. Clio]

57. no, it hasn't been 3000 years

what a stupid fuck statement.

[question everything]

13. Please get your facts right, especially if you are writing

people in Congress who know better.

Israel is not occupying Lebanon. Israel left in 2000 and since then, Heabollah has been building a massive network of missiles launchers and fortified bunkers. For what purpose?

Releasing prisoners? May I interest you in a bridge? Just a ploy. And, by the way, one of the prisoners invaded a home some 20 years ago and with his bare hands killed a five year old girl. Would you like this man leaving next door to you?

Israel has no death penalty - something that cannot be said about any other country in the region, or this one. Otherwise he would have long been executed. Yes, he confessed, of course, was even bragging about it.

[bbinacan]

16. I think you replied to the wrong

person. I think you mean't the OP.

[question everything]

17. No, look at the post number. We both replied to the same post

and you beat me to it.

[evox]

18. As mentioned earlier

Israel IS occupying Lebanon. It was driven out of most of Lebanon in 2000, but it still occupies some parts of Lebanon.

Hezbollah did develop its military capabilities since then, so as to protect their borders and themselves incase Israel decided to invade Lebanon again in the future - which is actually the real purpose behind this current conflict. But at the same time, why should that be a concern to Israel who owns hundreds of nuclear weapons?

As for the release of prisoners, I did mention "political prisoners" and not "criminals".

Israel may not have a death penalty, yet it KILLS tens of thousands of people without shame. Plus death is not the worse consequence is it? Israel prefers to torture their prisoners, a much worse approach of violence.

[question everything]

33. Again, get your facts straight: Samir Kuntar

is one of only three prisoners that Hezbollah wants released. For most of us, he is a criminal, but for Hezbollah he is "political." So where do you stand?

It is not Hezbollah's role to protect the borders. This is the role of the Lebanese army. And this really is catch 22. If the Lebanese government controlled its people and its borders, there would be no need to fear Israel.

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewForeignBureaus.asp?Page=/ForeignBureaus/archive/200607/INT20060718b.html

The Arab prisoner that Hizballah wants Israel to release in exchange for two abducted Israeli soldiers, is serving multiple life sentences for killing a four-year-old girl with a rifle butt.

Samir Kuntar is one of only two or three Lebanese prisoners still held by Israel, and Hizballah said its July 12 assault is aimed at winning his freedom.

[evox]

40. Here is why

It was Hezbollah (and not the Lebanese Military) that drove Israel out of most of Lebanon in 2000, therefore Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese National Resistance, and as long as Israel still occupied Lebanese soil - and it does-, they have a right to exist and defend their country including its borders.

As for whether people that are being held are prisoners or criminals is not for me to answer, as I do not wish to research the legitimacy of this article which I believe is only there to draw attention from the real conflict. But if you would like my opinion based on the article as it is, then a situation like that is to be handled by both governments, but he is still considered a prisoner of war to Lebanon and they want him back. After all, he is Lebanese.

[question everything]

42. If someone came from Mexico and murdered someone that you love

would you like this person to be in prison here, or returned to Mexico as a hero?

You really are running out of coherent thoughts.

[evox]

48. Simple

He shall be Returned to Mexico and tried by the Mexican government. Why would I want him to be in American prison, why would I still want him in the U.S?

[question everything]

55. Because the U.S is where the murder was committed?

This is how the penal system works. This is why you have extradition treaties - to send back criminals to where they committed the crimes, to stand trial there and be punished there.

You really are grasping at straws.

[evox]

60. well..

It depends from case to case. Nevertheless, in my opinion he should be sent to Mexico and be dealt with there because from the way you described the incident, that's how it should work. Compare it to: If an American citizen was accused of theft - regardless of whether he stole anything - in a 3rd world country, would you like him to be sent back to America or be jailed in that country?

[Ms. Clio]

58. and you don't know much about U.S. history

Bandits and Indians from Mexico routinely raided the Southwest during the 19th century, stealing livestock and kidnapping and killing Americans. And the U.S. didn't invade and level the northern part of the entire country.

[eridani]

25. Hezbollah was the creation of Israel

It didn't even exist until Israel invaded Lebanon in 1982. So Israel started it.

[K8-EEE]

34. SICK AND TRAGIC WARMONGERING MINDSET

That leads to the creation of fringe groups such as Hezbollah. I for one will keep "whining" about the plight of the Lebanese people, these attacks have been completely random in nature and it seems to me more children and old people have died than military aged ANYBODY, including Hezbollah militants. The weakest are suffering. It's sick....no good will come of this.

[Lindacooks]

52. Oversimplistic answer and talking points.

That's all your response is.

[Ms. Clio]

56. revolting

my ignore list just got a little longer.

[evox]

8. I agree with you

But like anything, the first step is to "admit" what the problem is. By ignoring Israel's invasion of Lebanon, only further allows Israel to do as it wishes regardless of what laws it violates.

As for the Solutions, here they are:

1- Israel evacuates all occupied Lebanese territory
2- Israel releases all political prisoners in exchange for its two captured soldiers
3- Israel suspends all it's military offensives against Lebanese territory

Result:

1- No more Israelis killed by Hezbollah
2- No more Lebanese killed by Israel
2- Safer Israel
3- Safer Lebanon

[eridani]

22. I'd call that self defense

No Israeli civilian deaths between 2002 and mid-2006. Their bomb shelters were so disused that sometimes no one could even remember who had the keys.

[KingFlorez]

54. So Lebanese citizens should die because Hezbollah did that?

Okay, that's real good logic

[uppityperson]

2. k&r, no longer is it self defence

[question everything]

14. No? Does Israel then, has to sit quietly and let Hezbollah

with support of Syria, Iran and China continue to fortify and acquire missiles? Why does Heabollah need them? And why does it jeopardies the people of Lebanon?

[evox]

20. The irony is that

Hezbollah needs missiles the same reason why Israel needs missiles which is "for self-defence", thus creating a counterbalance.

[question everything]

41. Sigh. Israel withdrew from Lebanon

Israel has never had problems with Lebanon, not even border disputes.

But Lebanon was too weak to resist the PLO - that plunged it into a 20-year civil war, did you know that? And, no, it was not Israel's fault. The civil war started in 1975 and Israel invaded in 1982. As was found out, the PLO forced civilians there to accommodate them with murder, rape and torture.

Now the same is being repeated with Hezbollah.

Israel withdrew from Lebanon in 2000 so, why, again, does Hezbollah need missiles? To demand the release of murderers like Samir Kuntar? Give me a break.

You clearly are running out of points, even though there are enough dumb ignorant DUers who will cheer you.

You may want to save your stamps, your letters will go straight to the trash, unless you are writing to Darrel Issa.

[evox]

45. Again...

Why do you keep repeating that Israel withdrew from Lebanon in 2000 as I keep on telling you that they still occupy Lebanse land? LOOK UP SHEBAA FARMS - Lebanse land currently occupied by Israel.

[Ms. Clio]

59. Israel did not "withdraw," it was kicked out

you clearly have no historical knowledge whatsoever.

[evox]

62. I agree

Thank God someone knows what they're talking about!

[uppityperson]

26. Problem is that bombing Lebanon as they have has not decreased

Hezbullah's bombing capability. Even the Israelis say it hasn't worked. Problem is that Hezbullah is now defending itself against Israeli's killing Lebanese civilians. Someone has to stop first.

[evox]

46. A solution

Hezbollah's Leader Hassan Nasrallah in a televised message a few days ago said that if Israel stops attacking Lebanese territory, then Hezbollah will stop.


"Any time you decide to stop your campaign against our cities, villages, civilians and infrastructure, we will not fire rockets on any Israeli settlement or city," he said in a taped television speech."

Full article: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/746583.html

[eridani]

29. For self-defense, obviously

Granted, pretty ineffectual self-defense.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uppityperson]

28. Israel or Lebanon?

not sure which you mean and don't want to reply until I clarify. Thanks.

[burythehatchet]

30. Israel

[uppityperson]

32. I should've put "self defense" in ""

[Name removed]

49. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[riverwalker]

4. thanks, great letter n/t

[K8-EEE]

35. I See These Commercials To Donate To The Israelis

And I'm like, my God we already do!! Every US taxpayer donates to them already -- the most money in aide to any country. Who is helping the innocent victims of Lebanon? I want to help them.

[question everything]

39. Please get your facts: foreign aid has string attached

in the case of Israel, it has to turn most of it back in purchasing arm equipment. You may not like things military, but Israel has contributed to defense research and development. Plus, as long as this country needs to know how its arms are compared to those of the former Soviet Union, now Russia, Iran and China - Israel is an important field test.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

43. hezbullah doesn't hate jews

http://www.youtube.com/v/n98_3Wysh64

Gillian lived in Beirut, Lebanon, from 1970 to 1974, after which time she traveled extensively around the Middle East. She came to the Middle East as a newlywed with her husband Clark. Though she was unable to work professionally, she did volunteer work. Gillian also completed her teaching certificate the the American University in Beirut.


"People don't realize there are top-notch schools and hospitals in Lebanon; they think everyone is a two-headed monster," Gillian commented. "That's why it's so important for young people to travel--to see the world for what it is."

Gillian visited Lebanon and Syria in 2004. She had been planning to return this summer with family but changed plans because of the conflict.

[Behind the Aegis]

47. You are kidding, right?!

[evox]

50. No he is not kidding

No he is not. Hezbollah hates Israel - according to them, a Lebanese occupier and a zionists state. They have absolutely no hate towards Jews that are outside Israel. Don't confuse Israelis with Jews. Because not all Jews are Israelis, and apparently not all Israelis are Jews.

[Clarkie1]

66. You are incredibly naive. nt

[question everything]

53. Except that Nassrallah said that he wished all the world Jews

gathered in Israel, to save him from going after them world wide.

[evox]

61. That's not true

Where's the source of that. Hezbollah are good with archiving all his speeches and comments. Whatever he said is archived somewhere, so find where he said that and post the link, otherwise your claim is pointless and baseless.

[AlienGirl]

67. For starters:

"It is an open war until the elimination of Israel and until the death of the last Jew on earth."--Nasrallah, 1992
"if they all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide."--Nasrallah, 2002

The first quote was reported in the New York Times, the second in the New York Sun.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Hassan_Nasrallah

Tucker

[Clarkie1]

63. Write one for me that mentions the war crimes of Hezbollah.

And I'll consider it.

[Clarkie1]

68. The moderators must be asleep.

This thread has nothing to do with helping resolve the conflict. It is nothing but an anti-semitic tirad.

[Broken_Hero]

69. Locking

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1809690&mesg_id=1809690