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Crazy anti stem cell fundie at the poll this morning

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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:20 PM
Original message
Crazy anti stem cell fundie at the poll this morning
I am working at a polling place for a candidate, standing outside handing out fliers as voters go in to vote. Law says we have to stay 25 feet from the entrance.

First thing I see when I get there early this morning is a woman dressed like it is the mid 1800s, handing out literature as voters leave the polling place. She has a button on that says something about 'Missouri Christians' but I can't make out the rest.

So I say good morning to her and ask her what group she is with and she tells me Missourians for Life. So I ask what she is lobbying for and she says she is there to educate the voters regarding stem cell research. (There is a stem cell research amendment on the ballot in November in Missouri.)

So I ask if she is for or against stem cell research. She says she is against human cloning. I say well then I suppose you are glad to hear that the amendment on the ballot which allows stem cell research also specifically bans human cloning. She laughs and says well they are changing what they call cloning. So I ask her to explain what she means and she says well stem cell research IS cloning human beings. I ask how so and she says well a scientist will have to explain that to you. (And I think well that's 2 points for me :) )

So then she asks me if I am in favor of stem cell research and I say yes I am because my dad died of Parkinson's and he could be alive today if stem cell research had found a cure for his disease. So she says well adult stem cell research has already cured lots of diseases. I ask which ones and she doesn't know. Then I say well there is more potential for cures with embryonic stem cells. I also tell her I hate to even call them that since they aren't really embryos, they are blastocysts in a petrie dish and they will not become babies until they are implanted in a womb. She stares at me blankly.

So then I ask her if she knows what happens to these eggs that are NOT implanted in wombs and she says no. I tell her they are thrown in the trash. And I ask her if she is really pro-life then does she want lives saved or does she want these blastocysts thrown in the garbage? Another blank stare. Then she says well are you in favor of cloning humans? I say absolutely not but finding a cure for the disease that killed my dad doesn't mean a human is cloned in the process. I tell her that curing diseases with embryonic stem cells does not mean babies are not born, these are stem cells that are no longer needed by the woman whose eggs were fertilized to make this biological matter that is in the petrie dish. So the choice is throw the petrie dish away or save a life by curing a disease.

Then she changes the subject (2 more points :) ) and says well we need to stop discriminating against Christians and their beliefs in this country. I say how so and she says well we need to start by allowing prayer in school. So I tell her well I am a teacher and there is no prohibition against prayer in public schools. She says no I mean the kids need to pray out loud every morning. I tell her okay, but if we allow some kids to pray to Jesus, then it is only a matter of time before the Muslims will ask that their kids pray to Allah too. She says well that won't happen here. I say oh you don't know how large our Muslim community in this city is, do you? She says we have Muslims here?

So I tell her the northeast end of this city has a very large Muslim community and my school has a lot of their children enrolled. I tell her about another school that has a majority Muslim student body. And I tell her I have nothing against Muslims, but we just don't have the time in our school day to stop 5 or 6 times and let kids pray; we have to get them ready to be tested!

So she walks away from me and spends the next hour standing right by the door and handing out her fliers as the voters walk out. I saw most either refuse to take her literature or give her a funny look. A few comment to me as they pass by that that woman is nuts.

Then I watch another woman talking to the fundie as she goes in to vote and I see the fundie talk to her again as she leaves. The voter goes back in the polling place and leaves by another door. She comes up to me and tells me she complained about that woman being in her face as she entered and as she left. Then I see the fundie get in her car and drive away.

I am home for lunch now. When I go back, I kind of hope the fundie is back too since I rather enjoyed talking to her. :)
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. The Stem Cell Issue makes me wish I were a scientist
Just because there's one niggling matter of fact in the middle of it that I don't know the answer to - which is the claim that Adult Stem Cells are just as good (or better than) embryonic stem cells. I think that's probably not true because if they were surely scientists would be focusing on Adult Stem Cells (I don't see them as actively maliciuos as some of these people clearly do). But I'd like to know for sure.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. The research I have done says there is not only more potential from
Edited on Tue Aug-08-06 01:45 PM by proud2Blib
using embryonic stem cells but there are also more of them.

Bottom line is this argument - they are either used to research cures or THROWN AWAY. How is it pro life to throw a future baby in the trash? How is it pro life to PREVENT curing diseases?
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. I'm not a fundy, in case you thought I was.
But let me give the counter arguement - if Adult Stem Cells are the same, why not avoid this whole sticky issue and start using adult stem cells? Just because it's fun to piss off the fundies?
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. That's a great point.
I will remember that. I did ask her which diseases had been cured with adult stem cells and she didn't know. :)
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
25. I believe they aren't the same. My impression is that stem cells
"age" (lose vitality and the ability to differentiate) much as whole humans do. Anybody know if
that's a reasonable idea?
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
22. Adult stem cells are more differentiated, programmed to become a certain
type of cell so they do not become just any type of cell like a blastocyte is likely to do. Adult stem cells collected in someones bone marrow will re-populate blood cells because that is what they are destined to become, but they won't become heart tissue cells or other type of cell. Blastocyte stem cells are so unformed and immature that they have not been defined as any tissue type yet so they can theoretically become any type. The idea is science can manipulate their development to a desired tissue type and correct defects this way.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Thanks for the great explanation!
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bryant69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. Taht is a really good explanation
Thank you

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com
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Bridget Burke Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. Different kinds of "Adult" stem cells may be quite useful....
Further research might show them as useful as blastocyte stem cells in certain applications.

But we won't know unless the research goes forward!


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Geoff R. Casavant Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
42. Embryonic is better than Adult by far.
The reason they are called "stem cells" is that they are not as specialized as, say, muscle or organ cells. A few enzymes and they can become different types of cells as needed.

The problem with adult stem cells as I understand it is that they have already begun to specialize, so the types of cells they can change into is limited. But embryonic cells are almost completely unspecialized (just as a single fertilized egg cell can split and eventually become heart, lung, liver, muscle, nerve, etc.), so there is a wider range of resulting cells possible.
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GardeningGal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
2. Good job discussing this with her.
I usually get so annoyed that I can't express myself very well.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. Thank you
I had an audience. There were several other poll workers there. So I was motivated to argue rationally.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. The prayer in school thing...
Her position was misinformed, angry, and utterly pathetic.

Talk about being used by the 'pubs for votes.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. One of the other poll sitters got her in a conversation about the war
on terrorism. He said she had absolutely no idea what she was talking about and changed the subject when he said 'well you do know Sadaam had nothing to do with 9/11?'

Yep, she is definitely being manipulated by the repukes. Too bad they did such a poor job of educating her.
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #7
19. A Real 'Triple R'
Edited on Tue Aug-08-06 01:45 PM by YOY
Rapture Ready Reject.

Frankly, the moment that she called herself a 'Christian', my laughter would have scared her off. The woman was about as Christian as Ghengis Kahn.
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evlbstrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Off topic...
...but I bought those stamps!
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YOY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. {Que Happy Brady Bunch Conclusion Music}
:thumbsup:
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evlbstrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
5. Sounds like fun.
Are you going to any watch parties tonight? There's one at HQ on Blue Ridge tonight. Since I have turn my materials in there, I thought I's hang out for a while. Free food and stuff, after all.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. I should make an appearance at Ingrid's party
then I need to go to a meeting over here too. But yeah, that party at HQ sounds like fun. Maybe I will stop by there.
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BuhByeChimp Donating Member (246 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
6. I use similar arguments, but mainly just say...
Sarcastically that throwing them in a trash bin is oh so much moral than using them for research.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Yep how is it pro life to throw them away?
Edited on Tue Aug-08-06 01:47 PM by proud2Blib
My friend the nurse also says that if you buy into the fundie argument against stem cell research then you also need to realize that by their logic, everytime a man masturbates he is discarding future babies and everytime a woman menstruates, she is guilty of manslaughter.
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TheFriedPiper Donating Member (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
13. "crazy" "anti-stem-cell" "fundie"
Thats doubly redundant


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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Hey it works
LOL
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notadmblnd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:34 PM
Response to Original message
14. I had a similar experience this morning
Edited on Tue Aug-08-06 01:37 PM by notadmblnd
This little old lady walked up to me and says, it looks like we're on opposing sides. I replied, well one of us is wrong, but I'm not going to say who. Then she started talking about the anti choice people, saying she'd support anyone who was against a womans right to choose (my words, not hers). So I told her that abortion was just a wedge issue used to keep us divided. Then I said, well I don't know how those people can call themselves pro life when they don't seem to give a damn about all of our kids and brown skinned people being killed in Iraq. lol... she grabbed her chair and moved across the parking lot from me.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Isn't it fun to shut them up?
:)
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LastLiberal in PalmSprings Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 06:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
43. They're 'pro-fetus', not 'pro-life'
Here are some basic questions: Should the government provide prenatal care? (No.) Should the government provide universal health care for infants and young children? (No.) Is it o.k. to kill a pregnant woman and her unborn child if she's an Arab? (Yes.) Is it o.k. to kill infants and young children if they are Arabs? (Yes.)

Pro-lifers are also against birth control. I got one to admit that "premarital sex is wrong and being forced to bear the child is God's punishment for engaging in it."

It would be pathetic if it weren't so tragic.
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pstokely Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. neither, They are pro-conception
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Lindacooks Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
15. Oh my word, that was just brilliant!!
Good for you!!!!

This shows that fundies don't know what they're talking about, and are totally uneducated on just about every topic.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. Why thank you
This one was especially ignorant.
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TheFriedPiper Donating Member (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. Have you ever tried "guerilla marketing"?
It started as 2 people having a conversation about a product they were paid to talk highly about within earshot of people in public places.

I've started using it to get my messages out to people that wouldn't normally hear me.

I pretend to be on my cell phone and say things like:

"Well, you knew better than to buy an SUV, so I got no sympathy for you! You shoulda got a little car like I did, it doesn't cost me HALF that to fill up!"


"O well, if he voted for Bush, I certainly wouldn't trust him with any important decisions"


"Most people in this country don't even know that George Bush was a cheerleader when he was in high school, much less that his Grandfather had his assets frozen for doing business with Nazi Germany during the war"




It's fun watching the looks of people when they 'overhear' what I'm saying.




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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. LOL I love it!
Great idea!
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kevinbgoode Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
24. Where are you in Missouri?
I think the wingnuttery is trying to cast that amendment as a "cloning" amendment - I got one of those infamous American "Family" Association alerts this morning saying they are having a rally in Cape Girardeau on August 17 featuring Rick Scarborough and Alan Keyes. . .puke. . .and then one soon after (I didn't check the date) in St. Louis.

Sounds to me like these people are going to try their typical smoke-screen approach to get what they want - just like the "protect marriage" amendments.

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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. In KC
Alan Keyes? Man how stupid can they be?
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
28. She probably won't be back ...
her bonnet probably blew off her head with all the facts you gave her.

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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. I wonder if they kicked her out
She was breaking the law.
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
33. When she gets real sick, she can simply pray it away.
Or she can make a sizable donation to Peter Popoff and spring for some miracle spring water if she hasn't already.

you tried valiantly, but her particular affliction is terminal.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. LOL
How true!
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MissB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
34. You know what they say about dogs?
When dogs hear you speak, they hear "blah blah blah blah blah blah good dog blah blah blah blah".

Same with your fundie and stem cells. She heard "blah blah blah blah blah babies blah blah blah blah." Too bad she didn't "get" science in school.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. Too busy praying I guess
:)
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MissB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #36
38. I have nothing against praying.
:) But I really do dislike it when people prefer to remain uneducated, kwim?

You did wonderfully. Thanks for volunteering today!
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 03:10 PM
Response to Original message
37. Good going Proud!
You just had to one up me, didn't you? :evilgrin:

Keep us posted. Wonder how evlbstrd is doing at his poling place?

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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. I don't know - hopefully I will see him tonight
at one of the parties.

I am off to return to the poll. BTW, I miss my chair today :cry:
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Here's something you didn't know
I have an allergy to the sun, more specifically actinic prurigo (hereditary PMLE). I'm having a small break-out now from the sun exposure I got Saturday or I would have already retrieved your chair. :cry:

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uppityperson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
40. Sounds like you were very polite. Good to talk to her like you did.
Very funny that she was so ignorant overall. Good job.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 08:50 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. I felt kind of sorry for her
I can't imagine feeling strongly enough about an issue to stand outside a polling place to lobby voters and yet be so ignorant of the facts.
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kiteinthewind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-08-06 11:11 PM
Response to Original message
45. Great job, Proud!!
Sounds like you stayed calm, focused and on message. I am not sure I would have been that patient!! Thanks for spreading the word, and hey, I wanna try that "planned conversation within earshot of a fundie!"
\:yourock:
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. Yes let's do that!!
We can practice it and then go out shopping or somewhere. Lord knows we have plenty of places to choose from in this fundie central city where we live.
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Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
47. Remind these people that cloning does not use a sperm! It uses
DNA and an electrical stimulant to get the cells to split.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #47
50. An elderly lady who was standing there gave me the greatest talking point!
When the crazy fundie lady walked away, she said "Whenever those religious types complain about cloning I just tell them 'Oh don't worry. No one wants to clone YOU.' " LOLOLOL
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Maraya1969 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. Oh I am going to remember that one!
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
48. Wow, very good insight to the ignorance being pedaled as fact
Edited on Wed Aug-09-06 01:26 AM by Mr_Spock
I have known many people like this in my lifetime - it's such a shame that people believe things about topics which they have no knowledge. A huge shame. At least we're not burned at the stake anymore. Small consolation :(
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
52. Forcing prayer time in school discriminates against everyone else
Christians aren't being discriminated against.

And they know it.

They just want to be free to force Christianity down everyone's throats.
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