Can we ALL agree that climate change is the most important issue now?

[theophilus]

Ways to make it better:

Stop burning fossil fuels.

Stop the Corporations from doing bad stuff.

Stop wars of aggression.

BUT, can we ALL agree that every issue needs to be viewed through the lens of climate change because if we don't get a handle on this billions are going to die much sooner than they should?

Just curious.......

Change WILL happen. :hi:

[donsu]

1. Yes it is THE most important issue

nt

[AndyA]

2. Isn't it ironic that the powers that be, manipulating and maneuvering

to make things happen around the world to their liking, are somehow oblivious to the fact that Mother Nature herself is about to take care of everyone - including them - and they have ABSOLUTELY NO CONTROL over it other than to stop the wars and find ways to work together to save the planet.

But they're too stupid to see what's happening right before their eyes. Their money, that they schemed so hard to get, will burn just as easily as anything else when the Earth gets too hot and burns up.

[DireStrike]

3. I'll agree to that

We need to change... before it becomes serious.

[TechBear_Seattle]

4. Global warming is a MYTH!!

We have the White House's word on that. :sarcasm:

[bobbolink]

5. NO... those of us who see people dying of poverty, and are,

ourselves, in that same fix in this country, know that our lives have value, even if liberals can't/won't recognize it, and still see our selves as just as important as the planet.

I hope that someday, some of you will realize the sting in the discounting of us in this type of statement.

It really is possible to multi-task, yanno.

[theophilus]

7. I am certainly for multi-tasking. I am certainly against, and will fight

to end, starvation. All I am saying is, can we all agree that helping millions to eat is going to pale in comparison to watching billions starve if the "big picture" is not tuned in on our vid screen? Starvation is horrible but it is going to get one hundred times more horrible if we don't confront climate change. Starvation needs to be dealt with by the haves of all nations but there are going to be so few haves if climate change progresses that NO ONE will be helped by anyone else. We can share our last dried turnip with our neighbor and die happy, but is that necessary? No. Not if we view every problem through the lens of climate change. That's all I'm saying and you don't have to be a liberal to want to save God's creation and all of the creatures-great and small. Don't forget....helping folks onto the deck of the Titanic was noble. It would have been even better to avoid hitting the iceberg in the first place.....

[Richard Steele]

10. LIBERALS don't recognize that lives have value?

Wow, pretty ironic that you follow such a ridiculous
broad-brush smear with:
"I hope that someday, some of you will realize the sting
in the discounting of us in this type of statement."

[Sapphire Blue]

17. There are definitely some who have come right out and said things like...

... "poverty is not a winning issue for the Dems", and suggested that we shouldn't focus on poverty.

Do statements/suggestions like those show an attitude of caring about the poor by those who make them?

(Note - I said 'some', not 'all'.)

[bobbolink]

18. Paint it however you like. Those of us on the bottom rung *have*

been hurt by these things.

If you will, take notice the next few times one of these lists is posted about "priorities" for Dems. Notice, that if poverty is listed at all, it's usually waaaay down on the list. And mentioned at all by only one or two. Yes, that hurts! It is a discounting that happens over and over and over.

I would ask that you take this opportunity to see (and feel) how it is from this side. Maybe it would give a larger picture of why there is not the same support for Dems that there used to be.

I stand by my statement that you criticise. Try meeting me halfway.

[Richard Steele]

21. You incorrectly assume that I know nothing of poverty.

I am in COMPLETE agreement with your statements immediately
above, you know.
But I just can't buy a blanket notion that 'liberals' don't care;
that's all.

We care about EVERYONE; that's why we are liberals.

As far as the 'priorities' issue, I agree that it should be
near the top of the list.
It's not a 'single issue'; it is thoroughly interwoven into almost
every other serious problem we face today.

It affects EVERYONE, every single day, whether we realize it or not.

[bobbolink]

22. I assumed no such thing. You are now making the assumption...

This could go round and round...

I said very upfront what bothered and hurt me. I made no assumption about you whatsoever.

Blanket smear/notion? Good one. I reported what I have seen. If that is a blanket notion, then the blanket is on the Dem posters here.

I will also say that I've been attacked by posting about poverty, and until very recently, NOT ONE DUer ever stepped in in support. Can you imagine that happening to Gay issues? Or, African-American issues? ETc?

I will also add that over and over I've witnessed so many issues being brought up, and getting tons of replies in requests to write/call about issues. Yet, over and over, requests to call about the budget, which slashed Medicaid, or pleas to call about other poverty issues usually sink with just a few replies. How's that for a "blanket" notion?

You want me to change my perception? Then, do your part to round up people to call and write about poverty issues. Do your part to see to it that these poverty threads don't just sink!

Reporting on reality isn't "blanket smears"!!

I said that it hurts, yet not one acknowledgement of that. That's passed over like it doesn't matter. When someone's pain doesn't matter, it's rather difficult for them to hear others.

Do you think that attracts poor voters? Yet, over and over we hear here on DU how poor people vote RW. Now *there's* a smear for ya.

As I said, are you willing to meet me halfway? Do you want to understand what it feels like on this bottom rung? Or do you just want me to be quiet and go away (and then complain that I don't work hard enough for the party!)?

[Richard Steele]

23. I stated I agree completely- you STILL ask me to 'meet you halfway'.

Have a nice day. :hi:

[Sapphire Blue]

25. Hello... do you have me on 'ignore'?

Just wondering, as you didn't acknowledge my previous post.

I appreciate your agreement as stated in post #21. What I see missing is an acknowledgement of the hurt felt by those who feel as if they don't matter to some liberals/Democrats when poverty isn't considered a winning issue, isn't worth battling... which, in turn, can make a person living in poverty feel like they aren't worth it, either. I'm not saying that you don't care, because you apparently do... it can be really helpful to acknowledge another's feelings, in addition to agreeing w/their position on issues.

[Richard Steele]

27. Nope, just been a bit distracted by the LieberCircus in here today.

It really didn't occur to me that it was necessary to acknowledge that pain,
just as I would I feel no need to 'acknowledge' that water is WET.
It just seems like a 'given' to me.

OF COURSE it hurts to feel like you don't matter,
or even to think that SOMEONE ELSE
feels you don't matter.

And I think we all know: that type of HURT is infinitely worse
when it comes from people you thought of as FRIENDS.

That's a HURT that you might eventually come to "understand",
and perhaps even "forgive"...
But it is _NOT_ a hurt that you can FORGET. Not EVER.

Well, at least I can't. Maybe other people can; I really wouldn't know.

[Sapphire Blue]

30. Thanks... good to know it wasn't something I said/did : )

You've expressed quite well an understanding of how much that kind of pain can hurt, and empathy for those who are hurt in this manner... this kind of understanding & empathy can lead to a healing of sorts, don't you think? Perhaps it's like meeting halfway?

[bobbolink]

42. Words fail.... "It didn't occur to me that it's necessary to acknowledge

that pain"

I don't even know what to say.

No wonder Dems are failing at reaching so many voters!

Yet, I keep hearing what a supportive community this is.... :cry: Maybe that's only for certain people --those whose pain is ..... more obvious?? More acceptable?? More.... what, understandable?? More common?

I'm at a loss.

[GodlessBiker]

6. We can agree that it is an important issue.

[slackmaster]

8. More important than our continuing refusal to adopt the Metric System?

Surely you jest. This "Global Warming" craze will blow over by December or January.

[patrice]

9. Ways to stop it:

Reduce, Recycle, Re-use, Restore in our personal and private lives in every way each one of us can.

[FiveGoodMen]

11. Not quite. Unless we get control of our government back...

... we'll never be able to do anything about climate change.

[theophilus]

13. Well, still......Is that the most important reason we MUST get control

of our government back? Then, you see, climate change should be the driving force behind the election of Dems or Repubs who will DO something about it. Just keep it all in perspective. Although, I can see that we ALL do not agree that climate change is the most important issue now. My question has been answered.

[civildisoBDence]

12. What are the debunkers really thinking?

What do you think Limbaugh, Hannity, and their ilk really think about global warming? The truth is that no one knows for certain that human activity is a major contributor--but the likelihood is very high. So the naysayers are pretending to know more than the scientists about a scientific issue.

What kind of person laughs off the possibility of catastrophic climate change, just because they hate liberals, environmentalists, and hippies? These are reactionaries and apologists, and Bush is their champion.

History will judge them harshly...and the more severe the consequences of our delaying any significant solutions, the more harshly they'll be judged.

Satire as thick as a president's skull

[theophilus]

14. We actually do KNOW that human activitiy is causing this catastrophic

climate change.....as much as we KNOW anything. Watch "An Inconvenient Truth" to see the significance of our spewing CO2 into the atmosphere. The natural cycles don't make increases this quickly or this much.

The rich think that they will be ok because they always, in their lives, have been. They will have their gated compounds and security guards. They are, many of them, ignorant and short sighted. They will die, too, from the chaos of planetary collapse. Ignorance is a killer. So is greed.

[endarkenment]

15. Read the excellent Scientific American latest issue

dedicated to global warming and what to do about it. Very good read. Too bad none of it is going to happen and instead we are going to soar right past the 2x CO2 threshold.

[adarling]

16. yes...for me right now it is the biggest issue

the candidate that comes out up with the best way to save our planet has my vote. Of course it will be Al ;)

[Jeroen]

19. YES it is the most important issue

[ThomWV]

20. It May Be Most Important But Its Not Most Urgent

At the moment we are distracted by other things. True, we can multitask, but at the moment every ounce of our energy needs to be devoted to nullifying Bush's last two years in office. Global Warming will get the attention it so rightly deserves as soon as President Gore takes the White House.

[Bandit]

24. I think alternative energy should be our issue

It encompasses Global Warming with National security by getting us off foreign oil dependence. Plus it provides mass jobs as well. It is the number one fix all that america is desperate for and the Democrats could capitalize on it if they had half a brain...JFK wanted to send a man to the moon by the end of the decade. We need alternative energy by the end of this decade or we may not need anything ever again...

[symbolman]

26. Here's a little film short I threw together

after filming for a day in the Appalachian mountains about Mountain Top Removal - they are LITERALLY BLOWING UP the mountains there for the coal, and then filling in the valleys with polluted crap and fill, tires, everything..

because of the way they are changing the lay of the land there are intense floods that are drowning whole towns, boulders fly into the air when they blow the moutains, a three ton boulder killed a three year old in his bed, I've seen pics of trucks smashed by 5 TON boulders.. and it goes on 24 hours a day..

The man I made this film about has been fighting for 20 years and is surrounded and occupied by corporations and their death machines.. they are mining GRAVES.. his ancestors are being run THROUGH someone's coal shut and stove..

He desperatly wants Robert Redford to show his FACE there and get the word out, all Mr Gibson gets while his land gets mined under his feet are Redford's emails about saving the Caribou (which is another story I'm doing)..

THis is a wmv so if you're on a mac I doubt you can see it.. but take a look if you will, THIS IS ADDING to global warming as well.

If you know Redford and can get this to him let me know, I promised Larry Gibson, this Keeper of the Mountain that I would bring him Redford, and I AM going to do it. I want to make a 45 minute film and enter it into sundance if nothing else, maybe that will get his attention, but I need funding, and where the hell is the money anymore?

Here's the link: http://www.tbtmradio.com/video/mtrgibson.wmv

[theophilus]

31. Excellent treatment of a truly heartbreaking subject!

I wish Bill Gates, et al, would fund resistance to this horrible behavior. It is a crime against humanity as well as a crime against nature. Coal is NOT an answer to any of our problems. It IS the problem. To destroy so much history and natural beauty is beyond defense. And they take away thousands of jobs, to boot. It just benefits those leeches at the top. Thanks for sharing.

[pitohui]

35. coal will be mined and mtns destroyed as long as oil prices stay hi

it's the laws of supply and demand, coal IS the easiest alternative to oil and when oil prices soar, then the mountains will be destroyed

everything is linked to this -- we must end the stupid wars, we must turn the oil barons out of high public office, it's all interlinked -- because everything this administration does is designed to raise the price per barrel of oil and every time the price of oil goes up, coal that didn't look economic suddenly starts looking better and better

it's heart-breaking

i hope you do find a way to meet with redford and get some help w. your project, sounds like a worthy one

[Johonny]

28. well it's the billions I'm worried about

Until humans take a realistic evaluation of population and resources I see no realistic chance that climate change will be averted. I think you have a much better chance of seeing politicians talk about carbon dioxide regulation than you do about considering overpopulation.

[Freedom_Aflaim]

29. No.

Taking back the whitehouse is the job #1

Addressing Global warming in a meaningful way is impossible without achieving the whitehouse.

[theophilus]

32. Well, maybe. But.....if the next occupant of the White House is beholden

to the corporations and the next Congress is, as well, there won't be any progress. The threat of planetary death must permeate the populace so that true leaders will be raised up to CHANGE what is going on and stop the burning of fossil fuels. As I said, all political decisions must be made with the very real issue of climate change on our minds. If we are talking about everything under the sun except the most important topic, then it is all for naught, imo.

[pitohui]

33. i doubt we can all agree on anything

as i've never seen anything proposed that would do anything about the fact that 1 billion chinese and 1 billion indians are all going to be purchasing and driving automobiles in the next couple decades, i think it's safe to say we're toast -- you can ride a bike to work all you like, but 1 billion chinese have had enough of that crap and they're not going to stay in poverty forever just for our convenience

it's hard to interest people in fighting lost causes and this particular cause doesn't look like a winner to me

give me some evidence that we can win and then you'll interest me

i want evidence of something real that can be done, not feel good crap like "car pooling" which is completely impractical and causes great inconvenience and loss of chance to advance at work w. no proven benefit

we need a manhattan style project to alter the earth's upper atmosphere in some way to control weather

feel good stuff like fluorescent lightbulbs is just buying time -- and damned little of that

if we are not willing to commit to something BIG, we're doomed anyway

[theophilus]

37. We difinitely need to sacrifice and change our lives. There have been

several posts linking to Robert Newman's "History of Oil" and others, that say the same things you are saying. It will be tremendously hard to do, but it can be done. This country's biggest hurdle might be to learn to live with a lot less (those who have a lot, that is), but the important word is "live". We will mostly die if we don't get busy. It can be done, though. I have jotted down a few ideas:


The Anti-YOYO Party Platform


The GOP has become the “YOYO” party………..”You’re On Your Own”. They would love to undo every liberal/progressive accomplishment of the last century. No sir, I don’t like it! I am against the YOYO party. I want to form the Anti-YOYO party. The emphasis will be liberal/progressive and environmental. The symbol will be a Tree.
I want all of the citizens of this country to know that they are NOT on their own. The government can care and the government can be made to work to the benefit of all. It will take some work, but it CAN be done. It will need a Rooseveltian program to save the country and, indeed, the WORLD. Climate change will kill us all. We CAN reverse what we have caused if we hit it quick and hit it hard. Details are in the Anti-YOYO Environmental Party platform. Let’s look at some of the planks, shall we?


1. Plant trees in every possible open space between the Mississippi and the East Coast. We need to restore the old ability of a squirrel to go from the Mississippi to the Coast without setting a paw on the ground. The trees will tie up carbon and put oxygen into the air. Fruit and nut trees should be planted in all public areas and along highways, etc. The populace is welcomed to use the fruit for their personal use. Animals will use the rest. Grassy areas need to be done away with except for designated natural meadows for wildflowers, etc. No lawns will mean no mowing. Think of the gas it will save. The shade from the trees needs to cover everything possible….houses, roads, buildings. There will be less runoff containing fertilizer and pesticide so the water will be cleaner.

2. Out west there needs to be a massive deployment of windmills for electric power generation. Farms that are struck with drought can still hold windmills and generate electricity. The farmers will be paid by power companies for excess power produced. A portion of that money will go to pay the government for the wind turbines, etc.

3. Out west and wherever possible there needs to be solar panels put on every structure that is above the trees or in the open to generate power. Same principle as wind mills, the owners will sell power to the electric companies and repay the government with a portion of the profit.

4. Plants will be built by the government, or private industry if they will do it right, to produce seedlings, build wind turbines, and build solar panels. Jobs will be significant and carry full health benefits. More jobs can be created to plant trees, tend to the forests, and help distribute needed parts of the process.

5. Organic farms, using the minimum pesticides and fertilizers need to be established and employ as many as possible with good salaries and health benefits. The food will be sold directly to the public at the lowest prices possible.

6. Universal single payer healthcare (Surgically Remove the Middle Men). This will allow a burst of entrepreneurial spirit never before seen. There will be more tax dollars taken in and the middle and lower class will do better and better. Believe me, it can work.

Some things we will ALL need to do:

1. Be happy with less. We need to realize and point out that GREED is a planet killing problem. For the religious, it is a mega bad SIN.

2. We have to be willing to tax the Corporations and the Rich in a fair way. They need to all give their fair share to save our country and our world. (They won’t be making much when their customers are all dead. To live a few months/years longer than the vast majority of the world is a silly goal.)

3. We must embrace environmentally friendly technologies, whether they are our first choice or not. Once again, your hummer won’t be much use when you’re dead or out of gas.

4. Stop wars of aggression and aggrandizement. Everyone should have clean water, clean air, AFFORDABLE and dignified healthcare, and a life suitable to pursuing happiness.

Make Government actually WORK for the people. Make it accountable and make it honest. (We might have to tinker with the Constitution a bit, but mostly we just need to enforce laws we already have.)

Possible slogans:

End War and Save Our Planet
Less is More (At Least You’ll Be Alive!)
Greed Kills Planets
Greed Kills People

Remember: If we do nothing, we are going to have to change. There just won’t be nearly as many of us to do it. Let’s make the choices now, hard as they may be, and live to pat each other on the back!

I think a lot of folks will just lie down and die or take a walk in the river "'til their straw hat floats" when it is clear that our world is frakked. I'd like to live. Fixing the problem we have caused just needs to be the frame around every other issue, imho.

[RB TexLa]

34. many things are more important

[theophilus]

36. Please name five things more important than the total disruption of our

planetary ecosystem. Please....

[RB TexLa]

38. You have jumped from "climate change" to "total disruption of our

planetary ecosystem" is just 36 posts?

[theophilus]

39. Yes, they are one and the same. We're talking catastrophic change, here

due to our greed and stupidity. Where are the five more important things, though? I gots to know.

[RB TexLa]

40. To me, just five

budget deficit

the war in Iraq

the Lebanon situation

trade policies within the hemisphere

the protection of the privacy rights guaranteed in Roe v. Henry Wade

the rebuilding of large portions of my home state

[theophilus]

41. All important things. But if we succumb to death because of climate

change that has not been addressed, all these other problems will be solved, I guess. Anyway, it is pretty clear that you do not believe that we are headed for the greatest crisis in civilized human history. So be it. As already stated, the answer to my original question is, indeed "No". That will change, eventually, unless we all "get off our arses" and get to work on solving this problem. If our society collapses there will be no rights, no hope, and no chance to solve any of these problems. It is only a matter of time, if something is not done.