We need to invest in DIFFERENT car technology.

[Tyler Durden]

We need to invest in DIFFERENT technology.

I just got nailed on another thread for pooh poohing the Archer Daniels Midland mad rush to E85.

SOOO, I thought I'd remind some folks that alternatives for cars that DO NOT INVOLVE GASOLINE IN ANY WAY, SHAPE, OR FORM DO exist.

http://www.theaircar.com /
(No etoh, no Gas, NO NOTHING)

http://www.evworld.com /
(yeah, I know, they do Hybrids, too. But the emphasis is ELECTRIC)

http://www.eaaev.org /
(Electric vehicles WORKED. Why else did Ford/GM/Toyota et al have them crushed? In fact...)

http://www.dontcrush.com /
(they took 'em, they crushed 'em. I ought to know: my company made parts for them)

http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1
(electric cars aren't dead. yet.)

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fuelcell.shtml
(Fuel cells WORK. NOW.)

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/business/15132253 ....
(hydrogen vehicle tests in urban environments)

So let's not start about this again. Hybrids are the auto company's METHADONE for YOU (not you specifically), the GASOLINE JUNKIE, and YOU (again, not you specifically) THE OIL COMPANY GASOLINE DRUG PUSHER.

Do you really believe that Ahnold and the Conservatives in California got the Electric Vehicle requirement overturned because it was GOOD FOR US???? Do you REALLY TRUST ANY CAR MAKER??? Toyota recently got nailed big time for concealing dangerous defects from recall. HELLO?

[Tyler Durden]

1. Well, I see folks are just as interested in hearing the BAD things...

...about Gasoline/ETOH/and HYBRID stopgaps as they always are.

I'll take my ethanol orally, thank you. There are better ways to power a vehicle.

[boise1]

17. The "Obvio 828E' electric car is headed this way from Brazil->

Still fairly pricey, but I'll bet these sell quickly:

http://www.zapworld.com/cars/obvio828E.asp

[MrCoffee]

2. Preach on, Bruddah!

k&r right up Detroit's ass.

[Skidmore]

3. I, specifically, am unemployed right now and am stuck with the

car I have until further notice.

[bluethruandthru]

4. I think the Tesla Roadster is going to blow the doors

off the electric car industry. Sure, it's expensive...but once the public sees what a great car it is...you can bet they'll be cranking out a $20,000 model in no time! (can I buy stock?)

[robinlynne]

8. There is 28,000 model coming out next year from china.

When I went to see "who killed the electric car", the electric car activists were standing outside the theater and spoke with us and showed us their electric cars. I can't wait to have one. (can't afford it, but I'm so ready to dump gasoline.)

[bluethruandthru]

16. Just wait...there'll be cheaper models soon!

I really think this will snowball...especially if gas prices continue to climb.

[htuttle]

5. We really need to use cars differently, for one

We should rely more on mass transit for long distance travel, and relegate cars to intra-urban trips. That way, we would be far happier driving something that has a top speed of more like 40-50 mph. And if we did that, we could easily be driving cars that get 80-100mph (or the electrical equivalent of that) even with today's engines.

But if people insist on needing to drive 100 miles each way to work, they would never be able to drive a more reasonable vehicle.

Imagine driving a steel wagon with a train of more than 200 horses pulling you! Not even the Emperor Caligula was so extravagant on trips to the market...

If we could give up 20-30 mph, and drop a few thousand pounds off what we are driving, we could do with FAR, FAR less fuel, no matter what it is.

[Kutjara]

6. I wonder if anyone has designed an alternative vehicle...

...powered by Repugs? I'm not necessarily talking about rendering them down for fat (but hey, if anyone can think of a better use, I'm all ears), but it would be quite stylish to pull up to the kerb in your brand new Lexus, pulled by eight tiny GOPers. Go Liar, go Briber, go Humbug, go Nazi! Go Hater, go Pervert, go Fascist, go Patsy! The ultimate cache would be to have your Pug team lead by Dubyah and his big red nose, for those foggy nights when a clear sense of direction is crucial.

[MadHound]

7. Frankly what I would rather see than any of those

Is for all vehicles to go to biodiesel. Cars, trucks, motorcycles, any vehicle with an engine should be converted over to a diesel engine, and run off of algae derived biodiesel.

The trouble with ethanol is that we simple don't have enough cropland available to produce the ethanol needed to power our country. The amount of algae needed to meet all of our fuel needs could be produced within roughly 15000 sq miles of ponds and lakes. Sure that sounds like a lot of water space, but consider, 15,000 sq miles is only one tenth the size of the Sonora Desert. And a lot of that space needed for algae can come from municipal wastewater treatment ponds. There, the algae would do double duty, help clean up wasterwater and produce the oil needed for biodiesel. This fellow has the calculations all down.<http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/article_alge.html>.

EVs are nice, but the question behind them is where are you getting the electricity to power them. Right now most of that energy would be derived from coal, gas and nuclear power plants, so all you would be doing is switching the pollution back from the vehicle to the power plant. Ideally it would be nice to get it from solar or wind, which we could do. But erecting that sort of infrastructure is going to take time. Meanwhile biodiesel is an off the shelf technology that is ready to go now, and is very, very clean. The emissions from a diesel motor running on biodiesel is ninety percent less than that of gas or dino diesel, and the waste from producing biodiesel is water and glycerin(which can be recycled for soap manufacturing, among other things)

Hydrogen fuel cell is really a couple of decades away from commercial application. It is also very energy intensive to produce, sucks up water(another finite resource), and has potential to be quite dangerous in a crash(remember the Hindenburg?)

So rather than shooting for pie in the sky solutions, or for solutions whose practicle application is unattainable, let's go with an off the shelf technology that has a great track record, and that we can put to use now. This will at least reduce pollution to a modicum, make us oil independent, and revitalize the agricultural sector economically. I would prefer to start using a technology that is ninety percent perfect now than having to wait around another quarter century for the perfect one. The earth is on a cusp of ecological collapse, and the sooner we do something about it, the better chance we will have to save the earth.

[robinlynne]

10. I love the idea of algae claening up wastewater and creating power.

I think we will need both biodiesel and electric. I dont think it's either or. both are tremendous and both are doable now. Persoanlly I researched here (in LA) and the only cars I could find for biodiesel were mercedes and brand new jettas. Both very expensive to buy and/or maintain. The electric car has no maintainance. nothing. It would be great if we could get a US made simple diesel car. but there isn't such a thing.

[MadHound]

18. Any diesel powered engine can run on biodiesel

That is the beauty of it, trucks, cars, anything running that can run on dino diesel can run on biodiesel. Older model cars you might have to switch out the neoprene fuel lines, but newer model cars should be ready to roll on biodiesel right off the lot. And running biodiesel is much less polluting,and better for the engine than dino diesel.

[JuniperLea]

9. Oh gosh... my oh my... but, but, but nuclear energy is what we need now

there are no other alternative energy sources that can save us now! :sarcasm:

Of course there are other sources! They are not commonly known because the big corporations crush the businesses and the news... with help from our government, of course.

[verse18]

11. I want my flying car.

It's 2006, shouldn't we have flying cars by now?

[MrCoffee]

12. Let's get the ball rolling on jetpacks

[boise1]

15. Skycar->

http://www.moller.com/

[DireStrike]

13. But don't all these technologies require energy in the first place?

The air car looks interesting, though I wonder how much energy it uses to compress the air.

Electric cars just draw power from the socket that comes from oil being burned at the power plant.

Ethanol has some problems, though it's good to see an alternative.

Fuel cells require hydrogen, which requires energy to extract from the compounds it is found in.


The only totally clean energy source would be solar.

[Tyler Durden]

21. Overnight charge up on a compressor, OR...

Two minutes on a high pressure air line,
OR they make a solar powered compressor that takes a day, but if you don't drive over 300km/day, who cares?

[quiet.american]

14. That Tesla is GORGEOUS. n/t

[robinlynne]

19. Everyone, I highly recommend you find the film who killed the electric

car? It is playing in small theaters across the country.

[Norquist Nemesis]

20. We are, but it's under the radar

It's hydrogen fuel cells. Yes, it's going to be 20 years or so. Obviously, we can't flip overnight.

Keep in mind that the oil/energy companies are global. Just a couple of years ago (for example), at the jobsearch of BP's website each position had in the first paragraph: "As we move toward a hydrogen based economy..." and that was for US located jobs as well.

Google 'move to a hydrogen based economy' and read up when you have a little time. :hi:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=move+to+a+hydrogen+based+economy&btnG=Search

[Tyler Durden]

22. I do it all the time.

I HATE the auto industry. you have to work for them to realize what pricks they truly are.