An American Moment

[WilliamPitt]

I just got back from the corner store to pick up a few things, and would like to share this. The corner store is just like a thousand others in this town, with a few of everything you might need plus cigarettes and the newspapers. There isn't anything special about it.

The place is run by a trio of brothers from Pakistan. They fulfill every stereotype, right down to the Apu Nahasapeemapetalon "Thank-you-come-again" farewell as you leave. They are always friendly and, a bonus in my book, have a chubby black-and-white cat named George prowling the store for mice.

I went in to the store today after stopping off at the coffee shop next door that is run by the amazing Iranian woman. She and I talked a bit about the Lieberman/Lamont race in CT; she is smart as a whip, and said "This is going to be an important election today" as I was leaving. I could only agree.

Anyway, I brought my stuff up to the counter of the store along with my store-bought iced coffee. The Pakistani gentleman rang me up while eyeing my coffee. Finally, he said, "You know, I read something in the paper yesterday. If you buy coffee at the store and make it at home, it costs us $46 a year. If you buy your coffee at Dunkin' Donuts, it costs us $1,400 a year. If you buy it at Starbucks, it costs $1,600 a year."

Yeah," I said, "that's because of all the tax breaks those companies get, plus the tariffs," before proceeding to defend my coffee purchase (I hate hot coffee in the summer, so sue me). We went on to talk about various home-brew brands flavors, before agreeing on the fact that the first home-brewed cup of coffee in the morning is a slice of heaven.

It struck me after I left that I had just wandered through the whole point of this country.

An Iranian woman making good by running an excellent coffee shop, who is totally invested in a primary in Connecticut because she knows the score.

A Pakistani man making good by running a corner store, who talks about the cost of coffee by referring to "us." He included himself as "us," you see.

That's the point. That's the whole idea. He is "us," as is the woman in the coffee shop, as am I, as are you.

Us.

[NMDemDist2]

1. exactly. we are Americans in spite of the NeoCons desire to fractionalize

us

:patriot:

[Beetwasher]

2. Not Just An American Moment Though

"Us" is this entire planet. We're all in it together, hurtling through space on this relatively fragile blue sphere with nothing but a thin veil of gas between us and vacuum.

[WilliamPitt]

3. True

but I am enough of a sucker for this place to believe that an Iranian woman and a Pakistani man free to run businesses that are separated by a wall is something special about this country.

[Beetwasher]

21. Indeed

The diversity and tolerance (especially in NY!) is something that never fails to make me proud of being an American.

[jus_the_facts]

26. Happens down here too...several convenience stores are....

....now owned and operated by Indians and Pakistani and restaurants by Mexican's...it amazes me here in *redneck fundie hell* that they're accepted and not run outta town on a rail...and this influx has all happened after 9/11 which shocks me comin' from this neck o'the woods...where huge Confederate flags are still driven around in the back o'pick up trucks because the football team of my HS alma mater are ranked in the top ten of the nation...astounding really. :hi:

[Beetwasher]

28. Hey!

:hi:

[bridgit]

7. e-yup = Picture a bright blue ball...

Just spinning, spinning free
Dizzy with eternity
Paint it with a skin of sky
Brush in some clouds and sea
Call it home for you and me
A peaceful place or so it looks from space
A closer look reveals the human race
Full of hope, full of grace, is the human face
But afraid, we may our home to waste

There's a fear down here we can't forget
Hasn't got a name just yet
Always awake, always around
Singing ashes to ashes all fall down
Ashes ashes all fall down

Now watch as the ball revolves and the nighttime falls
And again the hunt begins and again the bloodwind calls
By and by again, the morning sun will rise
But the darkness never goes from some men's eyes

It strolls the sidewalks and it rolls the streets
Stalking turf, dividing up meat
Nightmare spook, piece of heat
It's you and me, you and me

Click, flashblade in ghetto night
Rudie's looking for a fight
Rat cat alley roll them bones
Need that cash to feed that jones
And the politician's throwing stones
Singing ashes, ashes all fall down
Ashes, ashes all fall down

Commissars and pin-striped bosses role the dice
Any way they fall guess who gets to pay the price
Money green or proletarian gray
Selling guns instead of food today

So the kids they dance, they shake their bones
And the politician's throwing stones
Singing ashes, ashes all fall down
Ashes ashes all fall down

Heartless powers try to tell us what to think
If the spirit's sleeping, then the flesh is ink
History's page, it is thusly carved in stone
The future's here, we are it, we are on our own
On our own. On our own. On our own.

If the game is lost then we're all the same
No one left to place or take the blame
We will leave this place an empty stone
Or that shinning ball of blue we can call our home

So the kids they dance, they shake their bones
And the politicians are throwing stones
Singing ashes, ashes all fall down
Ashes ashes all fall down

Shipping powders back and forth
Singing "black goes south and white comes north"
And the whole world full of petty wars
Singing "I got mine and you got yours"
And the current fashions set the pace
Lose your step, fall out of grace
And the radical he rant and rage
Singing "someone got to turn the page"
And the rich man in his summer home,
Singing "Just leave well enough alone"
But his pants are down, his cover's blown

And the politicians are throwing stones
So the kids they dance they shake their bones
Cause its all too clear we're on our own
Sing ashes, ashes all fall down
Ashes ashes all fall down

Picture a bright blue ball just spinning, spinning free
It's dizzying, the possibilities

Ashes, Ashes all fall down
Ashes, Ashes all fall down
Ashes, Ashes all fall down
Ashes, Ashes all fall down
Ashes, Ashes all fall down
Ashes, Ashes all fall down
Ashes, Ashes all fall down
Ashes, Ashes all fall down

[B3Nut]

47. That song is genius

I've always liked that album.

Actually, that was my first exposure to the Dead back in the 80's. Then I got into some of their older stuff...enjoyable music. Americana before anyone ever came up with the term.

Todd in Beerbratistan

[panader0]

4. Cultural diversity is great

There's very little of it in my town. If it wasn't for the army base, there wouldn't be any.

[knitter4democracy]

5. Amen.

People from all over coming here for the American Dream. It's a wonderful thing.

I miss the Indian family that ran the Dunkin' Donuts by our old house. The wife made the most perfect coffee, and she had my mom a total addict after one visit when she made my mom's coffee exactly right. They got tired of running that thing almost 24 hours a day, though, and no one else in the family wanted to buy it, and apparently they couldn't find a buyer anywhere. *sigh* They had the best donuts . . .

[WilliamPitt]

6. No worries

The Carlyle Group bought Dunks a few months ago.

:grr:

[Theres-a]

22. What!

Never again.It was already rarely,but now.....never.

[WilliamPitt]

27. Sad but true

http://www.thecarlylegroup.com/eng/portfolio/portfoliol5-3338.html

Baskin Robbins, too.

[knitter4democracy]

34. Evil, evil group.

Dangit! Well, that just takes the cake, now doesn't it? I'm glad I've started going to a locally owned donut shop (not as nice, but good stuff).

[Warpy]

8. WE are working class

and if we ever fully realize that, we will be unstoppable.

All divisions of ethnic background, color, sex, religion, or preference are irrelevant.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. I had a similar moment yesterday at a Russian market.

There are a lot of immigrant Russians around Vancouver, WA. A new Russian market just opened in my town north of
Vancouver. I drop in for the (amazingly inexespensive) Kielbasa, Russian tea, and other goodies. I always try to talk to the immigrant clerks and welcome them to America. The one yesterday, a young woman in her 20s, spoke English better than most, and we chatted about her feelings about America, her original home in Archangel, and such. Nothing of great substance, just chat. There's also an Indian market that I stop in for spices, tea, and such, run by Sikhs and very friendly and generous with little samples of things I'm not familiar with, but the urge me to try.

There are also a lot of "illegals" from Mexico, Guatamala, El Salvador, etc, working in the hospitals, fields, yards, etc. Quiet and wary, but delighted when I greet them with a "Buenas Dias" and a smattering of high-school and "street" Spanish.

Welcome to them all, they enrich our lives.

[knitter4democracy]

35. Do they carry Russian cheese?

I'm still salivating over that stuff. Mmmmmm . . . Russian cheese . . .

Man, I wish we had one of those nearby. I'd be there all the time.

[ruggerson]

10. Hey Will

before we all get caught up in your "American moment," don't you think you owe American gays and lesbians here an apology for your little Mel-Gibson-like outburst the other day when you told someone they could get "get benefits" in Massachussetts for shoving things up their ass?

[WilliamPitt]

13. Um

No. If I recall, I was jacking up a homophobic poster. If you can find the post in question, please put it here.

[ruggerson]

15. No you indeed were not

He ragged on you about the Rove story. You then told him he could shove it "you know where." And then a few posts later you told him that he could come to Massachussetts and "get benefits even" for shoving it up his ass.

He was posting about the Rove story. There was nothing said about gays until your post.

The sub thread was pulled, but lots of folks witnessed it.

[WilliamPitt]

16. Ah

Now I recall. Yes, this was someone throwing that crap against the wall in a totally unrelated thread, for no other reason than to antagonize.

But you're right, what I said was not at all appropriate.

[ruggerson]

17. "what I said was not at all appropriate"

is not an apology to gays and lesbians here at DU.

You equated same sex marriage, which is a civil rights issue dealing with the core right of our families to exist, with "shoving things" up someone's ass.

It is a post I expect to see at Free Republic, not Democratic Underground.

And now you expect to be taken seriously when writing about honoring diversity in America?

[bridgit]

18. works for me...

:shrug:

[WilliamPitt]

19. Well

I was in an argument with someone who sought to deliberately antagonize. I did, indeed, say something rude and obnoxious. I do indeed apologize. Beyond that, I'd ask you to stand forth and tell me that you've never said something gross or wrong in the heat of a fight. I'd bet my shoes you can't do it.

So you take me seriously or not at your pleasure. I do apologize.

[Dora]

23. "Appropriate"

An appropriate place for this sub-thread would be in the GLBT Forum, or via PM, leaving the rest of us out of it, thank you.

Just my two-cents worth. I am motivated to post this by my disappointment at seeing a positive thread interrupted by quasi-stalking and one-sided bickering.

[bigtree]

29. mispost

[Duncan Grant]

31. Don't be complicit when gay men are insulted.

Are we all in agreement that the theme of this thread is 'us'; the integration of the many into a 'whole'?

A GLBT DUer has taken issue with Will because his definition of an idealized 'us' didn't seem to include gay men in recent days.

Do progressives and Democrats think trivializing insults regarding gay civil equality (with some lame you're-gay-shove-it-up-your-ass quip) is quasi-stalking and one-sided bickering? It's indefensible, imho.

And although Will has apologized (but it took a lot of effort, imho), pardon me if I don't feel like a member of this idealized American 'us' after reading your post.

If gay men objecting to gay insults has distracted readers from their positive 'us' thread experience-- then so be it. Hurray for 'us'. :eyes:

[Dora]

33. Hey, 94114.

The theme of this thread is not in question. I understand your concern, and I appreciate it. Thank you for your thoughtful response.

I still believe that this was not the place to attempt to coerce an apology for an unrelated exchange (that was already deleted) that occured within a thread that took place _?_ days ago.

I took exception to a thread hijacking. That's it.

There was nothing in the OP to object to, and that's MY point. Pitt allegedly wrote somthing flippantly crass and offensive about homosexuality and he did it someplace else. I'm saying that if it's going to be discussed, it should be discussed in the right place, and IMO this thread isn't it.

[Duncan Grant]

38. Hey, Dora.

I believe ruggerson had a legitimate complaint considering the context of an "American Moment"; an American 'us'.

If I make offensive remarks in my threads about Nascar dads and soccer moms, I shouldn't be surprised when they call me on it in subsequent threads about how empathetic I am as I stroll through my "American Moment" day...

Granted, it isn't always appropriate to have a check-in with an OP about their topic but in this specific thread of an American "us" moment -- it seems legit, imho.

Obviously we're championing different sides of an issue. And as Seinfeld would say, "Not that there's anything wrong with that." I'm trying to speak to the context of ruggerson's remarks and content of the OP. I believe you're speaking to appropriateness, manners, courtesy, right place at the right time, etc. in threads here at DU.

Thankfully, there's room for all of that in this discussion.

[Dora]

39. Well, and maybe some good will come of this...

Perhaps this particular subthread will motivate Mr. Pitt to self-edit before posting thoughtlessly.

:hi:

[Sapphocrat]

41. You just proved ruggerson's point.

An appropriate place for this sub-thread would be in the GLBT Forum, or via PM, leaving the rest of us out of it, thank you.

Emphasis on the word "us" -- which, in warm-and-fuzzy "We are all Americans" threads like this, seldom, if ever, includes LGBT Americans. Rather than ackowledge that, you suggest that we keep our beefs locked down in the GLBT forum, "leaving the rest of us out of it"?

You just made a very clear distinction between gay people and "the rest of us." I'm sure you didn't do it consciously or deliberately, but you did it.

As far as the OP goes, ruggerson is right, and I think it is entirely appropriate to point out the exclusion of gay people in this warm-and-fuzzy thread, in light of the OP's previous remarks. Had the OP not equated marriage equality with a certain, single sexual act -- and reduced gay men to a certain, single genital function -- there would be room to argue about appropriateness.

I'm sorry if you find my reply to you harsh, Dora, but I'm confident you will understand why I'm saying this to you. I've found your posts to be smart, sharp, and generally well thought out. This one wasn't well thought out. This time, I think you don't realize what you just said -- or how you proved ruggerson's point to a T.

[WilliamPitt]

42. Let me put this to rest

I'm glad ruggerson came after me on this. It was a supremely ugly thing to have said. Maybe there's a better time to call me on this, but I can't think of one.

[cboy4]

43. Hi, I've sent you a P.M. - - could you please read it

for me?

Thank you.

[Dora]

50. Not harsh.

Just direct. If we can't be true with one another, then what are we doing here?

Thank you.

[ruggerson]

44. Hi Dora

I was at work all day, so could not respond to your post earlier.

From my vantage point, my post was entirely relevant to the OP. We are all part of the American fabric, and since the exchange I witnessed was just a few days ago, I thought it spoke quite clearly to the underlying message of our common bond as human beings and to the theme they OP was attempting to convey.

I'm sad you feel that these kinds of sentiments should be relegated to the GLBT forum, I disagree with that, I think this is exactly the kind of thing that should be discussed, when germane, out in GD or whatever forum appropriate.

Gays and lesbians are part of the fabric of American life and society. We are your neighbors, friends, children, family. The OP's exchange the other day was so out of character for a professed progressive that it made me once again confront the reality that homophobia lives not only amongst virulently hateful rightwingers, but also amongst more intelligent people who should know better. I'm sorry you characterized confronting bigotry as "quasi-stalking", but hey, I've learned in life that you don't open people's eyes by keeping silent. Remember the old saying during the Reagan administration? Silence equals death.

[WilliamPitt]

45. Please read

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1851318&mesg_id=1851318

[Dora]

48. Ruggerson: My intentions were good, but I misfired.

This is what I was working from:

Hey Will
before we all get caught up in your "American moment," don't you think you owe American gays and lesbians here an apology for your little Mel-Gibson-like outburst the other day when you told someone they could get "get benefits" in Massachussetts for shoving things up their ass?

Being a heterosexual white woman, my priveleges blind me more than benefit me, I know this. I want only to explain that your manner of address to Pitt was so personal that I felt privy to an exchange I quite honestly didn't want to be part of.

I don't believe that GLBT issues should be corralled to GLBT, and anyone who thinks that of me is mistaken. I only intended to express that (what I thought was) infighting be kept "in."

[sui generis]

46. I read what you said later but still feel obligated to growl at you

for that comment above. grrrrrrrrrrrrr

'nuff said

We're all a little raw - and it shouldn't be this way among friends. Personally I appreciate both Rugger's effort and Pitt's insight and apology; it unjangles things without us hiding and whispering in the back of the closet in GLBT, and without being accused of quasi-stalkery for bringing it up at all.

That's what friends and subthreads are for.

[Dora]

49. Grrrrrrrr acknowledged.

There's a lot in this exchange that saddens me, including my own shortsightedness.

Thanks.

[Bigmack]

11. mispost nt

nt

[stellanoir]

12. Nice slice of life tale

which belies how the media so often spins the US into thoroughly whitewashed americana and demonizes hard working and thoroughly savvy immigrants.

I just am marveling over the fact that you actually know how to spell Apu's surname. Too funny.

[bridgit]

14. how lovely, i have a friend that makes sandwiches at Blimpies, she is...

young, but hard working; long hours on her feet for minimum wage...but she comes home sometimes crying because her Pakistani boss, the owner of the Blimpies; derides her, and all American 'white people' for being lazy & ignorant.

his children do not make the sandwiches...they help him count the money in the office.

hubby's previous girlfriend had been laid off, he had seen a sign in a chinese restaurant 'Help Wanted', and suggested she maybe get a hold over job till something else came along. she inquired within and was informed without hesitation, "we only hire our kind" true story as well.

when i was going to college, on a scholarship in LA, i had just gotten into town. with no where to stay. i all but wandered into a neighborhood and must have looked pitiful in that a polish woman walked up, right out of the blue, and offered me an apartment, a little studio near UCLA. i told her i just couldn't even though i knew i had no other prospects. she insisted. i told her i didn't have any money. she insisted saying further that she had survived the Holocaust and knew what it was, what it is to be 'put out', and without a home.

she asked if i would be able to bring her some money, $200, in two weeks which i told her that i would be able to do; there was no paperwork, only trust...and i was officially in college...on my little theater arts scholarship

America...The Beautiful, is clearly being judged on a case by case basis

[H2O Man]

20. Well done, Mr. Pitt.

Right on target.

[Joe Fields]

24. goo goo ga joob.

[hootinholler]

25. I am the eggman...

I am the eggman...
I am the walrus, koo koo ka choo!

Sorry, the last line just put this song into my head for what will probably be the next 2 hours.

The thing I don't get here is how it costs us anything as to where I buy coffee. Doesn't it still cost us if I buy no coffee?

-Hoot

[bigtree]

30. lovely how it all comes into focus

when you're sporting a pair of clean eyes

[catmandu57]

32. Here in our little town

There is an Asian family operating a Buffet, they are going great guns. The restaurant, is clean, the food is outa sight, they are always cheerful and the community loves them. They have melded into us seemlessly.

[tabasco]

36. Time for us to get our shit together or us will be them. n/t

[leftofthedial]

37. It's the ones of "us" who are "them"

that are killing me.

Your story is the point of America, or should be.

[sandnsea]

40. As related to economics

I've talked a few times about a Chinese beautician I met who has just been here a couple of years. Her entire concept of freedom is freedom to earn as much money as she is able. Not enough to become a millionaire or anything so grandiose, but as much money as she can to first, not be in poverty and second, live a comfortable life. We make a mistake when we don't understand what appointed labor means in other countries, that you're appointed a job and a poverty pittance and that's your life. We have to be careful to prevent our cheap labor conservatives from shoving us down into poverty, but we also have to be careful to remember that a big part of the whole American Dream truly is freedom to work and go as far as your desire and abilities can take you.

[marmar]

51. Diversity is so woven into my life that I usually don't notice it...

But I was walking through Oakland Mall in suburban Detroit Saturday and actually looked at the people walking around me - Black, White, Arab, Latino, Asian, Indian, Pakistani etc etc. An Asian American teenager had a Ludacris (a rapper, for the tragically unhip) T-shirt on, two young black women were munching on chicken shwarma sandwiches etc etc. And I had a "This is America" moment. Not the TV version of it, which sadly, doesn't reflect a country that's almost 40 percent non-white. This is America, the one where all of its many ingredients retain their flavor, but also blend to make an even better full course meal.