I don't know if this is a journal, more a thank you

[FlavaKreemSnak]

I would just like to thank the people who give us the site, and all the people who post to it for being more of my education than I ever learned in a political science or world history class. Well the only world history class I ever had really sucked, so that is not as much of a compliment I guess but you know what I mean.

I started lurking here a long time ago but I was afraid to post very much because it looked like everybody was like some expert on everything, and I felt like I was too ignorant. But after a while I realized that there were lots of people who were just expressing opinions and you don't have to be an expert on the history of the Middle East to have an opinion, although one of the things I have learned from the people who do know a lot, and also those who just have opinions, is that your opinion will make more sense if you read some.

And so I started to read stuff about the Middle East, and what policies America has had all this time, and looking at how it is all working out, it does not look too good, or it is going just great, and which one depends on your point of view.

I also realized something that I should have realized a long time ago, you know how all of a sudden you are like well DUH and you wonder where your head has been. And with the Middle East, this realization was that it is just like any other region and the conflicts there are just like any other conflicts, and it all depends on your point of view.

For example, today somebody posted an article about how Hezbollah is getting popular in Iraq, and his point of view was that this is a really bad thing. And I think he thinks this way because they are fighting back against Israel, and that is considered to be one of the worst kinds of terrorism, to fight back against Israel, or to fight back against America, and there are Iraqis who are doing that. So it makes sense to me that Hezbollah would be popular in Iraq, because they have something in common. They are fighting back against the most powerful countries in the world, with the most sophisticated weapons and the most money.

So whether you think that is terrorism or whether you think that it sounds like what you would do if Sweden or Algeria or somewhere was bombing and occupying America, you have to agree that Hezbollah and the anti-American Iraqis have something in common. Now I don't agree with the author's point of view that it matters much, because America and Israel are so powerful, there is no way that Hezbollah or the Iraqis can hope to beat them in a war, and I don't agree with the author of the We Are Losing World War III article either, because America and Israel are killing more people, the people they want cleansed out are getting cleansed out, and the American and Israeli companies are making money.

Plus America is so powerful that they go all over the world and just grab people and take them off to secret prisons that no country can refuse to let them put one there. All other countries, even the allies are afraid of America and Israel. So they are definitely winning the war, from the point of view of the people who are running it.

But here is where the point of view thing comes in. Maybe sometimes authors of articles are just talking about public relations, which does not really mean much, if you think about it. If every country is so scared of you that they don't even dare to tell you not to put a secret prison, and you are totally killing way more people than the countries you are invading etc. then you are probably not going to care too much about public relations.

I don't think that anybody thinks that what Israel is hoping for is to become popular with like Palestinians or Lebanese people. But I think that people get confused, like when US troops duct tape up people's mouths in Iraq for saying anti-American slogans or put people in prison for it, and when Israel considers people who support anybody like Hezbollah that fights back to be just as much of a terrorist as somebody who actually is fighting back, and it is easy to think, well if anti-American and anti-Israel sentiment are such dangerous terrorist things, then they must want them to be in favor.

But that is not true. The reason the anti-USA/anti-Israel sentiment is punished the same as fighting back is because for one thing, it encourages people to fight back, and for another thing, they think the punishments teach people to not even think of fighting back. They are wrong about this, if they really do think it. All of the punishments just make people want to fight back more, and this would be true if it was any two countries.

Another thing I have learned about the Middle East, is that the leaders of the Pro American countries and the people who live there do not agree too much about the subject of being Pro American. And this is why America has to help the allies there with financial aid for crackdowns. Because without it, Hezbollah and anti-American Iraqis would probably not be the only ones fighting back, and I guess that would be more expensive than the crackdowns. And that is also why you don't hear Condi or Bush talk about spreading democracy on Saudi Arabia or Jordan. They spread some on Palestine and they elected a party that also has a group that fights back against Israel!

But even if the crackdowns are cheaper than having to bomb anti-Americans in Jordan and Saudi Arabia, they do show you that the war on terror is going to be even more expensive than anybody thought.

So like I said, I am still reading and learning about all this, but right now it seems like to me that the war on terror is going to be so expensive that it is going to mean a lot of changes for how most Americans live. I don't mean that Americans will not support it or don't have resolve, but it will be sad to see some of the changes because we will not have a lot of the things we have always taken for granted, and then there are the poor people, which is something that nobody likes to talk about because it is playing the class war card, but if you think it through the poor people in America are going to have to have a crackdown pretty soon. And that is going to be another expensive cost of the war on terror, and mean even more changes for the way we live.

And whether all that is good or bad will depend on your point of view, but either way America will still be winning the war.

[Oversea Visitor]

1. And so the war goes on and on

Yes America will still be winning the war
That is a given

After a 100 years they STILL be winning the war.

How do you win a war that never end?

In war there are no winners only loser.

It is a matter of who lose less

There US will always win the war

But the war will never end.

If you see the people of middle east as your enemies

And you keep this culture of hate alive

It will never end

Paint them as evil if you want

But does it win their mind? Does it win their heart?

Talking about bringing democracy all fine.

But when you say something and does another what is the whole point.

[knowbody0]

2. but we do see a worm turning in Latin AmeriKa

Un-doing what the US did to them over the past several decades. Saying no to the corporations who have exploited their citizens and resources. They were labeled "communist gorrillas" threatening our democracy as we turned our heads believing they had our best interests and security as loadstars. all coming un-done as the focus changed to the middle east.

It's all coming un-done. When you beat a people into submission, they will eventually rise up against the oppressor. It is human nature.

[Oversea Visitor]

3. Yup

All those great empire all brought to defeat by the people.

We are all brought up on the glory of conquest. The hero worship of the strong. Then we let this greatest they bring alter our reality. And we believe in our own greatest. But as we establish ourself as the conqueror we start to bleed ourself to death. Slowly surely until one day the empire crumble. And so time pass. And another comes with dreams of glory and greatest. And so the cycle begins again. But as civilisation move forward. The weapon becomes more destructive. The cycles shorten. And maybe one day these great dreamers will leave the people in peace. Cause we can be just as desructive as an army.
Maybe when that day comes. The leader then has but one task. Serve the people and not their own dreams of greatest.

[FlavaKreemSnak]

5. If they rise up against America or Israel they will get bombed

I think you are right that they, I guess we, will start doing it to Latin America before long, because of the new leaders they are getting, and they are not the ones America said for them to have. Then we will have some more changes in the way we live because South America is so close by, and there are so many people from there who are here.

[knowbody0]

7. not what I mean about Latin America

Currently they are undoing the damage we've done with our foreign policies, what's more, they are coming together in solidarity to protect their resources

[lpbk2713]

4. Good post. And welcome to DU................. n/t

[FlavaKreemSnak]

6. Thanks! I lurked on some other sites but I like this one best

They are not as strict about letting people disagree with some things that we do, and even some things that Israel does although I can tell that is a touchy subject, which makes sense because even though it is not part of the Democratic party it has in the purpose statement to help Democrats get elected, and to get elected they have to believe in unconditional support for Israel, so...

But I see people here that say that they don't agree with bombing the civilians in Iraq and also Lebanon and Palestine and they don't get automatically banned, so that is something.