The Neocons Might Drag Israel into the Abyss

[Vinnie From Indy]

Why Israel has hitched their wagon to the policies of the Neocon Conservative and Christian Fundamentalist movements is a mystery to me. Judging by the several recent comments by Newt Gingrich and others associated with the BushCo. carnival of death, Israel is being used by BushCo and the Neocons to ultimately lure and fight Iran and Syria. It would seem to me that Israelis should think long and hard before fully committing to work hand in hand with the Neocons and the Christian Fundies.

Ha'aretz Israel News ran an excellent OpEd concerning the use of Israel as a proxy by the US.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/746312.html#resp

Robert Parry has an excellent commentary on this point as well in today's blog.

http://alternet.org/waroniraq/39981/

[Tom Joad]

1. Or is it the US is being dragged by Israel. Anyway you look at it

everyone loses, especially the victims of Israeli aggression.

[cali]

3. The U.S. is the

the big Kahuna, not Israel, which, on the world stage, is a minnow compared to the U.S. What's your case for the suggestion that Israel is "the tail wagging the dog"?

[Tom Joad]

6. U.S. the manipulator or being manipulated by Israel? Does it matter?

It's probably some of both. As i said before, however you look at it (US manipulating Israel or Israel manipulating the US) its just a very ugly dog.

The focus should rightfully be on changing US policy, since that is what we have a direct influence on... or relatively more influence on. Calling for an end to military aid to Israel is an important step.

[adriennui]

7. the you-know-whats taking over the world?

anyone who believes israel drags the US into anything, is out of their f--king mind or is suffering from weird paranoia induced hallucinations and hopefull will check themselves into a mental facility ASAP. treatment is necessary.

[nam78_two]

8. If it doesn't matter who is being manipulated

by who, why bring it up? And yes, the idea that Israel dictates US policy is absurd IMO and I say this even though:
1) I have read the Mearsheimer paper on the Israel lobby thats supposedly ruling the world..
2)I am not Jewish and actually don't even have any close friends that are Jewish (purely coincidental :))
3)I do not support what Israel is doing in Lebanon right now.

I will say this though, I do have a strong pro-Jewish bias. I try to avoid generalizations usually, except when they are positive.
My pro-Jewish bias started almost from the time I became actively involved in progressive causes. Over time I couldn't help but notice how diproportionately Jews as a group, tend to get involved in any progressive cause-whether its civil rights, feminism,environmentalism or animal rights.
It saddens me that the foreign policy of a country could result in such a, by and large, intelligent and wonderful group of people, getting tarred and feathered.
Yes, criticism of Israel's foreign policy does not amount to anti-Jewish sentiment, but sometimes anti-Jewish sentiments can be dressed up as a criticism of Zionism. I will never forget the "progressive lefty" I knew -a Nader supporter-who always criticized Israel's actions in Gaza.
That was in front of outsiders.
But when only in the company of friends she would say things like this "Yeah, you know how the jews love money", "those jews will do anything for a buck"..quite progressive eh :sarcasm:. I guess we are all shaped by our experiences and that has definitely made me aware that there are some people who may be progressive in many ways, yet bigoted in some one area.

Some of the American Jews tend to be overly hawkish-probably a result of the holocaust.
However, the whole 'Israel controls the US' nonsense is just getting out of hand. I suppose the US invaded Iraq as well because of "those Jews"?
At least, if as many Jews in Israel aren't protesting the war, it makes more sense than Americans here not doing so. They are so close to the war zone and its such a small country..

What about Americans here who in the majority supported whats happening in Iraq for so long-they couldn't all have been Republicans-numbers belie that? Everyone is so ready to criticize Israel. How about looking at the mote in one's own eye eh?

I recently read "The House of Bush, the House of Saud" and a no. of other articles about the Bushies and their ties to Saudis and even the Bin Laden family.
There is just as much a case to be made for a Saudi lobby as their is for an Israel lobby. Specially when you are looking at big oil.


I repeat, what Israel is doing in Lebanon right now may be nuts, but the Saudis are as powerful a lobby as Israel ever was. If anyone wants details they can email me and I have lots of information on that-information from legitimate journalists like WaPo's Douglas Farah, Craig Unger etc. These are good sources not some right wing conspiracy sites, which are the ones I have mostly come across spewing the whole Israel controls the world thing.

[AntiFascist]

9. If anyone "controls the world" its certainly not a specific ethnic group..

it's more of a "haves vs. have-nots" type of thing and there are plenty of have-nots in the U.S., Israel, and particularly the Arab world who being manipulated and coerced by those with the real power. This is the stuff of which the more plausible conspiracies are made.

[Tom Joad]

11. I agree with anti-fascist. It is not an ethnic group, it is the ruling

elite. They do manipulate each other. Neither the US nor Israel is completely at the mercy of the other. The government of Israel makes decisions, the US makes decisions.

Two groups want to pin this on Jewish people as a whole. Those who are anti-semites, and those who wish to hide behind Jewish people as a whole to defend indefensible policies (they want to make criticizing these policies = to attacking Jewish people.)

Not unlike Bush saying criticism of Iraq policies is an attack on US troops. Same kind of ploy.

[nam78_two]

12. Agreed/nt

[AntiFascist]

13. Case in point....

poor families in the U.S. who allow their children to be enlisted in the armed forces because this is the only hope they have of allowing their children to be educated or receive a living wage. They would put their children in harm's way because of the promises made by the administration, an administration which could certainly do better.

[Junkdrawer]

2. Right now Big Oil is in the "Create chaos and redraw borders" phase.

And they want Israel to do their dirty work. Best pals. But someday, after the borders are redrawn and Big Oil wants to pump the oil, watch how fast they turn.

Richard Perle will become Pat Buchanan in a heartbeat.

[paparush]

10. Yep. Big oil makes much more profit by finding LESS oil and finding MORE

trouble/unrest. War is just too damn proffitable.

[MrPrax]

4. Good point...

The Neo-Cons tend to want to transform and change any society they can get their hands on -- Israel is no different...The Neo-Cons have opposition there as well...

Like these guys Pensioners Party...which is actually an interesting little protest party that managed to get 7 seats in the last Israeli elections.

It's really too bad about the influence of Likud over the past few years -- because Israelis have been quite inventive in their politics and people should look more into the various differences...

[HereSince1628]

5. Somehow, as gruesome as it might get, I don't see Israel in any

abyss but that of world opinion. And as long as the US is in its corner it'll never be alone.

[leesa]

14. Israel is run by Neocons. They are the same. If you can see the evil

in Dubya and Dick and the boyz you should be able to see it in the Israeli neocons as well.