That unit couldn't help itself when it raped that Iraqi girl and killed

[Skidmore]

her family...they had been DRINKING!! They were under the influence. Barbara Starr just passed that tidbit on to us on CNN. OMG, now I understand. Why didn't I just know that might be the case. Those men wouldn't do something like that unless they were drunk, now would they?

[McCamy Taylor]

1. The embedded reporter wrote a sympathy piece for the WaPo about

the killer full of info like how the guy showed signs of PTSD and said he did not feel anything about killing Iraqis anymore after witnessing the death of his Sarg. This after the fact. Funny that the embedded reporter never bothered the write about it BEFORE the guy was arrested.

To me, it looks like cover up from the press.

[Skidmore]

3. Iraqis, I understand, are asking for an "indepedent investigation,"

although I'm not certain that is possible given our current heavy thumb on their scales of justice right now. Also, I'm certain some of the evidence will just go poof.

[me b zola]

25. Yes, and IMO the cover-up began in the military

Some of the statements and affidavits that I have read suggest that word of the gang rape and murders spread throughout the soldiers base camp. It was shortly there after that Green was sent to medical for a psych eval and recieved a hurried discharge--honorable at that. This suggests to me that there were officers aware of the atrocity that occurred and went about burying the story in an attempt to make it go away.

Then the state-side reporting of Green has been suspicious, going as far as smearing his mother before we had ever heard the names of the other soldiers. It seemed to me that the press (at whose urging?) sought to make Green the scapegoat. Note, I am not suggesting that Green was not involved or innocent. Early reports called Green the "ring leader". It just seemed to benifit the soldiers still in Iraq to push all of the blame onto a guy who was diagnosed with a psych disorder.

The newest piece of info that makes me think that I may be correct in thinking that Green is being made the scapegoat came from the news reports from todays legal proceedings. All of the soldiers involved were privates, except for one, Sgt Cortez. We know from past reports that the soldiers had stalked Abeer and had been to her house the day before the gang rape and murder. I could be wrong, but it would seem to me that if there were a "ring leader", that person would be the first one to rape Abeer. Sgt Castro was the first to rape Abeer, Green was the third.

The way that the military has handled this story from the beginning has stunk. There is more to be known.

[McCamy Taylor]

27. Yes, a sarg is more likely to be a ring leader than a private.

Think they were planning for a stateside media circus trial all along for Green and then quietly cover up the military trials of the rest of the guys? It is kind of wierd how they are painting Green as a Charles Manson type and all these US soldiers as mindless followers who had no choice but to go along with him.

[me b zola]

31. re you question:

Think they were planning for a stateside media circus trial all along for Green and then quietly cover up the military trials of the rest of the guys?

Yes. But I think that they were trying to avoid the others ever being charged. I would have to go back through my records, but IIRC, It was about a week or so after Green was charged before the others were charged. Also, the affidavits that the FBI took from the soldiers in Iraq while investigating Green contained 3 confessions and mentioned a "know participant". How long was the military aware of the confessions before they charged the soldiers in Iraq?

I honnestly believe that they were actively trying to avoid charging those soldiers. I think that in the event that the soldiers were charged, playing up Green in the media was "plan B".

In case you missed it, here's a link to those FBI affidavits:

http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/iraq/usgreen63006cmp5.html

[SPKrazy]

29. Probably They Had Viagra Too

with their doctor's name on the prescription bottle so they wouldn't be embarrassed

;-)

[mmonk]

2. Yeah, that's what I do when I have a few drinks. Rape and kill.

[MrCoffee]

4. Was she wearing a halter top and miniskirt?

Get O'Reily on the case.

[Disturbed]

7. Defense Attorneys are duty bound to defend the indefensible

but so called Journalists are not so duty bound.

[MrCoffee]

9. Intoxication is generally not a defense

If I remember my criminal law classes correctly.

[sgxnk]

16. correct

generally speaking...

in my jurisdiction, it is specifically written into the law that intoxication (as long as it was voluntary) cannot be used as a defense

it CAN be a mitigating factor at SENTENCING (as can almost anything a judge is willing to listen to) but not as an element of a defense to a crime in my (and many) jurisdictions

[MrCoffee]

20. My crim law professor would be proud of me

Can you write to him and ask him to bump my grade?

[sgxnk]

22. i could

but he'd probably "consider the source" and dock your grade :)

[gratuitous]

26. Because if it was . . .

There's a hell of a lot of guys who should be sprung from jail tomorrow.

This same "defense" was proffered by Reagan fixer Michael Deaver (remember him?), who whined that he shouldn't be held accountable for his corruption because he was an alcoholic and drinking heavily at the time he was taking bribes and arranging for payoffs. The only thing I could think of was how many guys sitting in jail could use that as a defense because they were drunk off their asses when they assaulted that guy or killed that woman or drove over that center line into the busload of nuns.

This is the best some people can come up with, though. And it shows just how inexperienced they are with the criminal justice system to try to excuse their criminal actions because of drunkenness.

[leesa]

13. Oops, didn't see your post.

[sarge43]

5. Well, at least so far.

they haven't blamed the girl for luring them with her demonic womanly wiles, but the day isn't over with yet.

[The Straight Story]

6. Just like terrorists cannot help themselves to kill others cause they are

mad at us or someone else.

[partylessinOhio]

8. That is pure BS! There is no excuse for rape and killing.

Who setup the drinks, Halliburton? Are the troops over there for democrazy or for partytime?

If that ditz Barbara Starr thinks this makes things look better she must be drinking too.

[Philosoraptor]

10. they played golf before, ate grilled chicken after.

all the while getting drunk. did i hallucinate that? no, she said it.

[wakeme2008]

11. they also changed clothes before raping her

:grr:

[leesa]

12. She was probably wearing a halter top and mini skirt too. Her fault.

[sgxnk]

14. wow

that reminds me of the people who think it's reasonable to blame the "failed mental health system" because a guy who HAPPENS to be bipolar committed a vicious premeditated murder at the seattle jewish center

drunkenness is not an excuse for rape

PER-I-OD

[Atman]

15. So then, that must be a valid defense in a DUI...

"I just couldn't stop from driving the car...I'd been drinking. And playing golf!"

Yeah. Sure.

What's Bush's excuse? Oh, right...probably the same thing.

[FlavaKreemSnak]

17. Last night the graphic CNN has was Combat Stress

Those big letters they put underneath when they tell you what stories are coming up, instead of anything about rape or murder or even Soldiers Accused or something, they put Combat Stress. I think this was to get people thinking about what stressful conditions the troops have to deal with, so when they have to say the charges, people will still have those big letters of Combat Stress in their minds and the crimes will not seem so bad. If they don't present it like that, people will say that they don't support the troops. You have to be careful when you talk about things like this, to make sure to say you support the troops, but you wonder if maybe a few bad apples might have gotten a little bit carried away because they are under so much stress. And even then it is risky, I think I would not even talk about this unless I knew that the people I was talking to are against the war.

[Crankie Avalon]

18. Apparently, it's no big deal and quite understandable...

..."Defense Attorney Captain Jimmie Culp was blowing chewing gum bubbles while Yribe, sitting to his left, began sucking on a red lollipop during the testimony." (From: http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060807/ts_nm/iraq_mahmudiya_dc

See, even the military defense attorney is taking a broad view of things. An officer, I might add. It's all perfectly normal, it seems.

[QuestionAll...]

19. guess that clears Mel then.

what horseshit.
this is all getting too ugly to bear.

Starr should be Ashamed of herself - delivering that stupidity from her masters.

[Philosoraptor]

21. rape and murder, its just a shout away, its just a shout away

gimmee shelter

[WinkyDink]

33. It's just a kiss away, it's just a kiss away.............

[liberalmuse]

23. There's NO EXCUSE.

I'd have to say most people who drink do not rape young adolescents and kill entire families. It's like the guy here in Salt Lake who is blaming porn for his killing a 5 year old girl. "Porn/alcohol made me do it." Bullshit! If guilt is proven (and there is no doubt that these fuckers will get the best representation available), they should get the maximum punishment. You wear a nation's uniform, you better goddamn well give it the honor it deserves. Although, under Bush, America has no honor left. Americans who defend war crimes like this with whiny ass excuses are beneath contempt.

[Kailassa]

24. If we criticise these thugs, are we guilty of antisimianism? n/t

[Monk06]

28. Her face was uncovered, driving them mad with lust. That and amphetamines

[uppityperson]

30. I thought it was because it was 125 degrees and that just happens

trial, conviction, put in Iraqi prison general population.

[Karenina]

32. Bad Apples...

Martin Smith, a former sergeant in the US Marine Corps, is a member of Iraq Veterans Against the War. He can be reached at: [e-mail]

http://counterpunch.org/smith08052006.html

Sgt. Martin Smith, USMC (Ret.)
'Bad apples from a rotten tree: Military training and atrocities'

The mounting revelations of war crimes in Iraq have ripped the mask of democracy and nation-building off of a fatigued and wearied Uncle Sam, revealing the true face of U.S. imperialism. At least thirty U.S. servicemen are being prosecuted or are under investigation for the murder of Iraqi civilians. Twenty-one year old Steven Green, who served in the 502nd Infantry Regiment, was charged with the gang rape and murder of a fourteen-year old Iraqi girl in Al-Mahmudiyah, south of Baghdad.

<snip>

Iraqis claim that Marines gunned down unarmed teenagers in the streets and then stormed through homes, killing residents, including babies and the elderly, in what can only be described as a blood bath. Likewise, in March in the town of Ishaqi, witnesses claim that eleven civilians, including children under the age of five and a seventy-five year old woman, were forced into a corner of a room with hands bound and then brutally shot by U.S. troops.

Explaining how U.S. soldiers could be capable of such ghastly deeds has led to blatant distortions and false claims by the media punditocracy. The Fox News and Limbaughesque loudmouths were quick to blame the anti-war movement's criticisms of the conduct of the war as a scheme to demoralize America's "will to win" and a ploy aimed to bolster the propaganda efforts of "al Qaeda operatives." Some in the blogosphere even absolved U.S. war crimes as a just response to an insurgency which has utilized beheadings, kidnappings, and roadside bombs--even though the targeting of civilians is in contravention of international humanitarian law or let alone the fact that the Iraqi resistance is born out of the very presence of U.S. troops as an occupying force.

Liberal analyses rely on two versions of the "bad apple" hypothesis that are equally inept. On the one hand, it is claimed that the war crimes are the result of a renegade president who flaunts international law. According to such a view, the impeachment of Bush would be a step forward in remapping what is merely a stray path on which the neo-con Republicans have circuitously navigated U.S. democracy. On the other, many argue that such incidents are the result of a few deranged individuals and that Steven Green's discharge with a "personality disorder" is proof that his actions represent an isolated incident by an unstable individual. The former argument buys into the liberal myth that the U.S. military is somehow capable of humanitarian interventions-if only Al Gore or John Kerry were president, or so they say. Such an assessment fails to acknowledge that U.S. imperialism has never been humanitarian nor has it been free of blatant war crimes, as the history of military intervention under Clinton in Kosovo or Somalia will attest. The latter is merely another version of the "support our troops" sloganeering which holds that the U.S. military, as a whole, represents the lofty ideals of honor, courage and commitment. While many have loved ones or relatives in service; or may have served in the military themselves, there can be no denial that the military is a tool of big business--and comes at a cost to human life that is, as they say, "priceless." In describing the interventions that he participated in during the early decades of the 20th century--and the corporate interests he served--U.S. Marine Gen. Smedley Butler said: "I spent most of my time being a high class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism."

more at link:
http://counterpunch.org/smith08052006.html