CNN says age of raped and murdered Mahmoudiya "woman" not determined...

[Fridays Child]

...but that the mayor of that town "claims" that she was fourteen. Then, they show a picture that's been doctored, apparently, to obscure her face on identification documents.

I guess that Reuters isn't the only news service to edit pictures.

[WindRavenX]

1. this is a very disturbing trend I've noticed.

When our soldiers rape CHILDREN, the spin is that she was a "young adult" or "woman"..

[Recursion]

2. Right, because even though we know...

...that Iraqi militias have caputured, tortured, castrated, and killed 2 US soldiers in retaliation for the rape and murder, it's unthinkable that they have also lied about the victim's age.

[Fridays Child]

5. I was unaware that Iraqi militia members had stated her age.

Or are you suggesting that, because Iraqi militias have committed violent retaliatory acts, it follows, logically, that the mayor of Mahmoudiya would lie about the victim's age?

[jobycom]

6. Any evidence that the mayor and the people who killed the soldiers

were connected or part of the same group?

[Ms. Clio]

26. this is so offensive

Do you think her government-issued ID is a lie, too? Do you think her little brothers and cousins and other relatives are lying about her age?

Fuck that noise.

[Recursion]

31. Check the date before you flip out

If you'll notice, nobody had posted the ID photo when I wrote that post, and once they did post it I did my best to translate it. Since I hadn't seen documentation which I didn't know CNN had, I was suggesting that you can never tell who is or isn't lying in war. Now that I've seen documentation, I don't think there's any question.

[Ms. Clio]

38. okay, thanks for clearing that up

sorry to have flipped out on you -- this is a story I have been following very closely, and the media's attempt to obscure her age has been outrageous.

[LittleClarkie]

41. I personally had a hairy cat fit all over my local newspaper

and got a decent reply from them for my trouble. I showed them an Editor and Publisher article that talked about how the AP was calling this 14 year old girl a woman, complete with her id picture and documentation.

[Ms. Clio]

46. good for you

I don't even read my local paper anymore, so I don't know how they have handled it. I'll bet they have been weaselling around it like CNN, though -- I think I will go check out the online edition and see.

[LittleClarkie]

47. Mine was just using the AP articles as they were

I found out that they were at least questioning that part, but without what they considered credible proof of her age, they didn't feel that they should change "woman" to "girl".

So I pointed them to the evidence I'd seen on line. Haven't checked lately to see if they've continued the practice.

[Marr]

29. By your logic, those soldiers deserved

to be tortured and castrated, because US soldiers were the ones who raped and murdered that girl. So I don't really get your point.

The two murdered US soldiers were not the ones who raped that girl, and the mayor of that town is not the one who killed the soldiers.

[Recursion]

32. Listen carefully: at the time I had posted

I had not seen any documentation about the girl's age, or any direct quote by the mayor about her age; I had seen "sources" saying she was 14, and "sources" saying the mayor said so. As neither condition is operative anymore, I am no longer skeptical.

[dipsydoodle]

3. Assuming it to be the 14 year old

here's the original which was posted on DU weeks ago :

[Recursion]

21. 1992...

...for those who don't know Arabic numerals (ie, the numerals they use in Arabic, rather than the numerals we call "arabic numerals).

Which makes 14 (or 13) the official age.

I can read "Abiir" for her first name, but I always have problems with handwritten stuff and can't make the rest out. Possibly "Waahimajana", "Iznaan", "Mukha(SOMETHING)ta"

Oh, and it looks like the full birthday is February 18th, 1992 (towards the bottom).

When did the attack happen? Had she even turned 14 yet?

[Recursion]

23. With a little more time and after finding my dictionary

I could puzzle out some more of the writing.

What I'm assuming is the Iraqi version of an SSN is at the top left, 002997.
Her first name was Abiir
She was from the town of Maahmudiyah
Her family name was Hamza
She was female
Her date of birth was 2/18/92

Still no idea on what "lakab" is as a question or "itnaaya" is as an answer, and no idea what the stamped section at the bottom reads.

[magellan]

33. Thank you, dmesg

And in answer to your question upthread, if it's true this happened in March then Abeer had just turned 14.

[hobbit709]

4. The crimes are rape and murder

the age of the victim is immaterial to that. It shouldn't matter whether the victim was six or sixty-the punishment should be the same.

[madmusic]

7. It will be...

Death.

They probably want to pour hot oil on them first.

[ShortnFiery]

8. I beg to differ, raping a defenseless CHILD is more horrific ... eom

[Fridays Child]

12. Agreed. Because children are far more vulnerable than adults...

...they deserve more protection, physically, psychologically, and legally.

[yardwork]

15. How could the thing GET any more horrific?!

The facts are bad enough. Quibbling over her age seems beside the point. It makes me mad.

[malaise]

9. 100% correct n/t

[Fridays Child]

10. Regardless....

...the media has attempted to whitewash her age because it matters to the viewers--both Americans and Iraqis--who want us out of there.

[Minstrel Boy]

20. the victim is a child

When the victim of any crime is a child, it should be regarded as a crime of a different magnitude.

[Ms. Clio]

28. the issue is the deliberate attempt to obscure her age by the media

and under U.S. laws, the age of the victim is most certainly "material."

[tocqueville]

11. see coming post in GD with ID pic and translation

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1835307

[mystique]

13. I don't believe CNN !!!

They are doing everything to make her older... Like it really matters.

[AnnieBW]

14. 14 is a woman in that part of the world

From what I understand, 14 is marriageable age in that part of the world. The men there like women to be young virgins because they're afraid of comparison.

[uppityperson]

16. can't legally marry that young, even with parents permission

we went through this last month when this case came to public light. No, 14 is not a woman. 16 might be marriagable with parent's permission, 14 is not. And we are here, reporting on it here, where 14 is not a woman.

[Ms. Clio]

27. "what you understand" is completely wrong

and betrays a decided ethnocentrism.

[AnnieBW]

40. Then, I guess my Lebanese co-worker

who's a second-generation American is wrong, then? Because he's the one that told me about that. Not that it wasn't horrific, or that she deserved it. I'm just stating that, in that culture, young women in their teens are often considered to be of marriageable age. People in Western cultures often don't realize that.

[Ms. Clio]

43. The age of consent in Iraq is 15

and the "people in Western cultures" crap is right out of the Orientalist handbook.

[uppityperson]

51. Second generation Lebanese American could be wrong re Iraq

14 is not marriageable, especially without consent of parents, even with consent of parents, unless you go to a really represive fundamentalist place.

[alcibiades_mystery]

53. You're an ignorant bigot

Plain and simple.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

35. If murder were legal in that part of the world it wouldn't matter

We're judging the actions of Americans over there who, "but for" Bush's war and the consent of Americans to send soldiers to Iraq, they would not have been there to commit those acts. The age of a murder victim in the United States has been relevant in various jurisdictions to warrant "special circumstances" attached to the crime, including imposition of a mandatory death penalty. We should be judging American soldiers according to American standards, not Iraq's.

[Mandate My Ass]

37. So she deserved it

If she was at the age of consent "in that part of the world" she deserved everything she got, and then some. And her fecking family deserved to be slaughtered too, because they were born "in that part of the world" where 14-year-old virgins are considred at the age of consent.

What a fucking embarrassing piece of dehumanizing, racist, rationalizing, rapist-apologist drivel.

[AnnieBW]

39. Excuse me?

Did I put "she deserved it" in any part of my post? Because no woman deserves to be raped and murdered. I'm just stating a fact that I learned from my Lebanese co-worker.

[Mandate My Ass]

48. No I won't excuse you

What a load of crap. First of all, she wasn't a fucking woman.According to you, I guess she was lucky Americans jumped her bones before a brown-skinned person did. On the plantation, it was considered an honor to be raped by the white massah too.

She didn't and couldn't and wouldn't have consented even if she was given the chance. Get a fucking clue. She was terrified for weeks knowing what these rapists wanted but luckily for her, she could never have imagined in her most fervent nightmares what the monsters would do to her once they got what they were after. You're aiding and abetting their dehumanization of a frightened child.

[theHandpuppet]

56. C'mon, folks... let's take a deep breath

Aren't some of you overreacting to AnnieB's post? Nowhere did she say the girl deserved to be raped, her family shot, et al. because she might be considered a marriagable age. She was simply repeating what a Lebanese co-worker told her and this was appropriate in the context of the discussion at hand, ie, when to use the word "girl" or "woman" could vary depending upon the cultural definitions. This doesn't excuse CNN or the MSM, the real perpetrators of this inexcusable game of semantics which they play for political purposes (they know perfectly well that the victim was a child), nor does it make the crime any less heinous. I didn't at all perceive that AnnieB was insinuating such a thing. Guilty of being uninformed about another culture (aren't we all?) and perhaps assuming some generalizations, but I perceived no malice nor rationalizations in her post.

We're all pissed off about this war crime but I think the vitriol aimed at AnnieB is a bit misguided. We're not going to enlighten anyone by tearing them down before we even begin the dialogue. Let's save some of that anger for the trail of criminals in this whole senseless tragedy and that trail leads all the way up to Pennsylvania Ave.

[Binka]

50. Your Avatar Is Fucked Up

If you believed in the sacred woman you would not be posting such shit.

[Binka]

49. Thank You For Saying This

Jeesus how is it that these people do not choke on toe nail clippings?

dehumanizing, racist, rationalizing, rapist-apologist drivel.

[Mandate My Ass]

54. Sometimes I can't believe what I'm reading

She was a child, a frightened one at that. The descriptions of the crime scene rival the most depraved sociopathic carnage I've ever heard. And then someone says, "Well, those people would have handed her over to the first guy drooling over her anyways...." :grr:

I hope all is well with you and yours, Binka. I know what a hard road you've been travelling lately. O8)

[Binka]

55. My Road Is Easy Compared To This

Many racists are coming out of the woodwork. It makes me fucking sick.

[uppityperson]

17. CNN still calling Abeer a woman, here are some current links

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/06/iraq.main/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/05/iraq.main0740/index.html

Here is the link to contact page
http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form1.html?35

[xultar]

18. also

[e-mail]
[e-mail]

[uppityperson]

19. thanks for the contact email

I just read one article on CNN, says Reuters has obtained ID card that "suggests" her age was 14.

[Disturbed]

22. Her sister that was murdered was 7 .

Most of the Corp Media don't mention that.

[Ms. Clio]

30. now the article just reads "an Iraqi female"

weasels.

[Recursion]

24. It just struck me... 1992

She was born after Desert Storm... her whole life was under American sanctions until some Americans ended it.

We're going to hell...

[Uncle Joe]

25. It's a sin to watch CNN n/t

[RebelOne]

34. What difference does her age make?

She was still raped and murdered. It doesn't matter whether she was 14 or 40.

[EFerrari]

36. In the larger scheme, none. But crimes against children

are generally a bit more discouraged . . .

[rustydog]

42. A female was raped AND murdered...Who gives a FUCK what her age was

does that bring her back to life and undo the unspeakable crime?
Oh wait, was she "asking for it?"

[Fridays Child]

44. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1835200&mesg_id=1835288

[Ms. Clio]

45. Why do we have Amber alerts?

Why is child pornography considered so horrible? It's because the law does distinguish between adults and juveniles.

And for CNN to call 15-year-old Elizabeth Smart a "girl" and then 3 years later describe 14-year-old Abeer as a "woman" is just one more glaring example of the shameless media manipulation in this country.

[uppityperson]

52. crimes against children get worse punishment,children need protection more