Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Additions to Godwin's Law

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 10:59 AM
Original message
Additions to Godwin's Law
When having a debate or discussion, when someone mentions "Nazi" or "Hitler", that means they have lost.

Well it's time for some additions to that.

When having a discussion about Academic Freedom, the person who brings up David Horowitz to defend so-called Academic Freedom loses as David Horowitz has a track record on being Factually Incorrect when it comes to alleged cases of Conservatives having their Academic Freedom taken away (Horowitz always blows it way out of proportion or gets it totally wrong).

When having a discussion about GLBT equality, the person who brings up Paul Cameron or the 1983 ISIS Survey to say that rights for GLBT people should be restricted loses as both Paul Cameron and the Survey are fraudulent.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
asthmaticeog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
1. That's not what Godwin's law says.
It says, roughly, that the longer an online argument continues, the greater the chance of someone making a Hitler comparison. Nothing at all to do with who "wins" or "loses."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JackintheGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. But what is means is:
the person who best represents the intentions of God's infallible bible, i.e. the conservative, wins!


YEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWW!!!!!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
asthmaticeog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. What are you talking about?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JackintheGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. He who supports God wins
Jeez!

Lesson learned: never pun before coffee.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
asthmaticeog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. *smacks forehead*
I get it now. :) Might have used the direct approach to begin with, for what my opinion on the matter's worth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JackintheGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. That's the coffee kicking in
I know it's after lunch here on the left coast, but when you work third shift all week your coffee schedule gets rather out of whack. :hangover:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 11:10 AM
Response to Original message
3. Misinterpretation of Godwin's Law.
Common but incorrect. See the discussion here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin\'s_law

In its pure form the law is simply an observation: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one."

In its pure application, the comparison ends the discussion. In its common application the invokee has lost the debate. The problem is that a) sometimes the comparison is valid, b) it has become such a part of the neturature, that it modifies the form of debate. This latter part has led to your desire to add new codiciles to the law.

No thanks, in its pure form Godwin's Law remains one of the best observations about cyber culture and needs no additions. Only a nazi would propose such Hitlerian madness. (obligatory smiley not attached.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ck4829 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Sounds like a new law is necessary then
I shall call it The Citing Fraudsters makes your Debate Hopeless Law.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Alright then, and good luck with that.
However as I made a comparison to both Hitler and nazis this discussion is way over.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Berry Cool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. To be honest, I think Godwin's Law is overrated.
While I am all in favor of not making a comparison to Hitler or Nazis without a great deal of aforethought and unless it is truly warranted--comparisons to them should not be used as a cheap, easy weapon with which to bash one's enemies--I do not think they are always utterly out of line.

For example: Keith Olbermann puts a picture of Bill O'Reilly's face over his and gives a Nazi salute. Apropos, or no?

I say after what Bill-O did, trying to equate anything that happened at Haditha with "what American soldiers did to Nazis at Malmedy," it's apropos.

Bill-O was trying to say all's fair in love and war, whether it's American soldiers killing Iraqi civilians or American soldiers killing Nazi soldiers in WWII. But, uh, wait. First of all, his WWII example doesn't involve a civilian massacre. Second of all, it's false anyway, because at Malmedy it was NAZIS killing AMERICAN soldiers, not the other way around.

When this was pointed out to him--after he yelled over Gen. Wesley Clark for saying otherwise--he simply said he was referring to vengeance killings some Americans had done of Nazis afterward. Yeah, same difference, eh, Bill?

In other words, Bill tried to say American soldiers killing Iraqi civilians was no worse than American soldiers killing Nazi soldiers. Sounds to me like either he was saying it was OK for American soldiers to kill anyone they want, or that it's bad for American soldiers to kill Iraqi civilians but it's no worse than when they killed Nazi soldiers. Both were equally bad.

Which sounds to me like he's sticking up for the Nazi soldiers.

Which sounds to me like Olbermann was trying to make a point by wearing a mask of Bill and giving a Nazi salute.

But if you believe the freepers, well, they invoked Godwin's Law and declared him the loser of the argument, just because he alluded to Nazis.

And some other people did too--claiming that what Hitler did was so bad and utterly unique and should never ever be compared to anything else and certainly never used to get a laugh. Which might be news to Mel Brooks, for one.

As for me, I wonder if we don't kid ourselves by putting Hitler in a unique category apart from all other genocidal despots. I wonder if we don't, to some extent, treasure him too much that way. In a way, it's like acting as if he is sacred somehow.

I don't believe Hitler should BE sacred. I think he should be down in the same hole with every other despot who ever lived.

Let's not make reference to ANY of them easily and lightly. But when we do--maybe the first thing people should say is not "You lose the argument," but "Is this person making an easy comparison--or do they actually have a point?"

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Godwin's law was apt circa 1990
However given that we are in the midst of the theofascist takeover of the US government, and said government is on a mission to conquer the world, the number of exceptions to Godwin's common interpretation due to 'aptness' renders the common interpretation near useless.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tjwash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. You're just being a wikipedia nazi.
!DOH!
:+


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-06-06 12:19 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Game over.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Jul 23rd 2019, 04:25 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC