Any advice for a 17 year old joining the Army this month?

[elocs]

On the 16th my nephew goes into the Army for basic training at Fort Benning in Georgia. He graduated in June from one of those National Guard schools for troubled teens and so the military recruiters were all over him from the get-go. When he had been thinking about enlisting I sent him a letter detailing the downside of going into the Army now and about how promises made by a recruiter are not always promises kept. I wanted him to make an informed decision and not to be able to come back with "well nobody ever told me".

I am going to send him a good luck card next week with the Army logo on the front and inside his oath with the first part being to protect and defend the Constitution on the United States. I wonder how many look upon the importance of this as opposed to what they see as the oath to blindly obey all of their orders. I don't want to be preachy with him since he has made his decision and I want to encourage him, but I also would like to leave him with a good and meaningful thought.

I am afraid for this boy if he was ever to get into combat, not only for his safely, but for his sanity and soul. Just 2 years ago he was so freaked out at a movie where a little girl turned into a zombie that his friend's mother had to drive him home. He is also frightened of thunderstorms and is afraid to ride roller coasters. These, and others, are fears he is more free to have as a civilian than a soldier. I think his military experience will either make or break him with little in between.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Keep your head down

and listen to your sargeant. Most of the time them old vets will keep him alive.

[Tom Joad]

2. One Word. Canada!

Really, consider resistance.
http://tomjoad.org/WarHeroes.htm

[Tom Joad]

4. More realistically, you can tell him about GI Rights hotline

give him the number and just so he knows it exists.
GI Rights Hotline [phone]

[Retired AF Dem]

44. Resist what?

He isn't dodging the draft.

[Bluebear]

3. His superiors are alive for a reason.

Listen to them and the senior soldiers. Don't be cocky, listen and learn from them.

[Tom Joad]

7. In the Vietnam war soldiers rebelled against them. Not a bad idea.

[Posteritatis]

16. Maybe he meant superior enlisteds?

A private or PFC's not going to have that much to learn from a colonel or general, after all, but a sergeant with five years' experience and a few combat tours is something else.

[Bluebear]

22. Perzactly. nt

[seabeyond]

75. Sit in a foxhole and dont look out

Or he could always fake a heart attack in the base before a mission:),if he is in a battle he should leave the heroism to the more salty vetrans, be patient and wait for the enemy to attack, hold his breath before he sqeezes the trigger and stay by the salty vets, plus, one of the most important parts is to stay calm and constantly convince himself that he should keep both eyes open at all times.

per my 11 yr old son. any other questions. wink

[Poll_Blind]

5. Well if his parents gave their permission (they need to if he's 17) then..

...he's off to get fucked up. If a movie freaked him out so badly that his friend's mother had to drive him home, seeing his buddy or a child cut in half with their entrails spread all around them and screaming....screaming...screaming...will probably make him lose his goddamned mind.

  After that, it's anybody's guess what he'll do or when he'll do it.

  But if his parents consented there isn't much you can do.

  I hope for him, the best.

PB

[misanthrope]

11. Those were my thoughts exactly...

...I hope for the best for this kid, but it sure looks as if he's a prime candidate for PTSD. This sounds like a tragedy waiting to happen.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

6. My advice would be to get him to...

...Walter Reed to see and talk with those who've been there and paid such a terrible price. He should have this opportunity before he goes.

[mike_c]

8. ouch-- bad time to be at Benning....

August in south GA. Ugh. No disrespect for Georgians-- I'm a Georgian, LOL. No advice, just commisseration. It's hard to imagine anything good coming from doing tours as Bush's cannon fodder. Best wishes for your nephew.

[michreject]

51. I went through jump school in Aug at Benning

It does get a tad warm but your mind is on other things.

[cynatnite]

9. One day at a time...

That would be the best advice I could give him. Another thing I would tell him is that when the drill sargeants are doing their thing they're not doing it because they hate him...they're doing it because they want him to come home alive and in one piece. Most of them know what they're doing and it's important he listens to what they say very carefully.

Also, he needs to be very aware of the resources available to him should he have a change of heart during basic training. They know there is a war going on and no one will want to send a kid in combat who has second thoughts or no self-confidence. They sure won't graduate him if he can't perform his duties.

I would also assure him that if he does change his mind to let him know it's okay. There is nothing wrong with that and no one will think less of him if he does.

[welshTerrier2]

10. have him join the Swiss army ...

the US army, noble though many may be in their intent, is nevertheless a tool of the corporate state ... i honor those who serve but also see them as dupes of the realm ...

i would do all i could to dissuade him from joining the army ... protecting the country and seeking a career in the military is an honorable pursuit; but the corrupt missions for which the military is used is neither ...

until our military is used for legitimate purposes, we all should stay as far away from it as possible ... sadly, that's not likely to happen anytime soon ...

[Dogmudgeon]

24. That's harsh

True, but harsh.

Then again, since 12/13/00, it's all been harsh.

--p!

[cynatnite]

30. Wow...I guess I shouldn't have worked as a medic

I was a corporate state tool. New one on me.

How can you honor those who volunteer to serve, but consider them dupes? That's like saying, 'you know, you did a great thing, but you're a mindless idiot'.

I would discourage anyone from joining up in a time of war with bush as commander-in-chief. He's abused and murdered our military. What he's done to the military is criminal. Raygun and Bush Sr, no matter how much people dislike them, never did the damage that jr. has done.

[reformedrepub]

35. What company at Ft Sam

former 91B here myself.....

[cynatnite]

37. Geez, I can't even remember...

That was in '86. I was sent from there to Germany and assigned to 5th G. Went to a clinic in Scwabisch Hall. After that it was Silas B Hayes at Ft. Ord. When I got out I went to the Reserves and was made a 91F.

Loved Ft. Sam. Partied like it was no tomorrow plus my two best friends there went with me to Germany.

[Donnachaidh]

12. make SURE he get's the recruiter's promises in WRITING

My brother was able to get out early when they flipped on what he was promised in terms of training.

[TomInTib]

13. Oh, good God in Heaven. (do not read this unless you are ready)

Your nephew fits exactly the profile of the guys that, in my war (Vietnam), bought it first.

Is it not too late for him to opt out?

Given his background, he will be assigned to absolute Hell on Earth.

Oh, damn, keep him out of this mess. Prison is better than what he is looking at.

Sorry to sound so negative, but I know of which I speak.

God Bless him.

Tom
SEAL Team 3, 1969-72.

[theanarch]

15. i'll second that, even though i speak as a Vietnam war

resistor (the Selective Service offered me a 4-F Mental, and i--no doubt being bat-shit crazy--took it). I'm told that during WWI, US anarchists distributed an anti-conscription poster; never saw the art-work, but the caption read: "Don't be a soldier. Be a man." Might want to drop that on the kid and see what happens. As Dave Klein (Pres. of Veterans for Peace) says of his own Vietnam experience, when you are inducted to the armed forces, you pretty much lose your rights as a citizen, and become an instrument of (foreign) policy...a very, very expendable instrument.

[JohnyCanuck]

63. Military men are dumb stupid animals...........

to be used as tools of foreign policy. Now don't get on my case. I didn't say it, Henry Kissinger did, and if you think that the thinking among the elites running the Bush administration is any different, more fool you.

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/06/266114.shtml

[WhiteTara]

14. my advice...Don't Do It n/t

[mmonk]

17. If there was ever a time to say no

this is it. I could not advise a young person to do this as long as the US was considered in breach of international law, the Geneva conventions, and the UN charter among other things.

[unkachuck]

18. mixed messages....

>>>I think his military experience will either make or break him with little in between.<<<

>>>These, and others, are fears he is more free to have as a civilian than a soldier.<<<

....your 'gut' is telling you something....I'd be crystal clear with him; now is NOT the time to consider military service and explain why, or send him here and we'll explain why....

....if your 'gut' is correct, it's probably going to 'break' him; encourage him to get out of this any way he can....tell him you love him too much for him to become a statistic and a name on a wall....

[Karmadillo]

19. Maybe this link will help.

If he goes, your love and support will mean a lot to him. If he's open to changing his mind, maybe the information below could be a start. Also, it sounds like several DUers have a good idea from experience what he's going to be facing. Maybe he could pm some of them?

http://www.comdsd.org/pdf/Recruiters_DEP_2004.pdf

What is the Delayed Entry Program?

Most people who enlist are signed up into the Delayed Entry
Program (DEP), which is also called the Delayed Enlistment
Program, for up to a year before they report for active duty
training. Sign now, pay later. It's a popular way to sell cars,
stereos and military enlistment. The DEP is particularly
attractive to high school seniors who are unsure about what
to do after graduation. A lot can happen in a year (especially
for teenagers!), and many young people change their minds
about what they want to do with their lives.

How does someone get out of the
Delayed Entry Program?

While DEP recruits have incurred a legal obligation to the
military, getting out of the DEP is simple: write a letter
requesting separation that fully explains why the recruit is
unable or unwilling to serve. If there is more than one reason,
explain them all. Don’t say anything to the recruiter until after
this letter is written and sent.

What kinds of reasons are acceptable?

While the military defines specific separation categories, as
long as the recruit states clearly that he or she is no longer
interested in serving in the military, almost any reason is
acceptable. Despite occasional threats of involuntary
activation from recruiters, the military currently releases all
DEP recruits who request a separation.

The military's list of discharge categories includes:
conscientious objection (a belief that it is wrong to take part
in war); pursuit of higher education or vocational training;
civilian job opportunity; erroneous enlistment or recruiting
error; failure to graduate high school; family issues (marriage,
children, hardship or dependency); homosexual conduct;
medical or psychological disqualifications; personal
problems; failure to report for active duty; and a catch-all
"other."

Where is the separation request sent?

The recruiter does not have the authority to grant separations
and will try to re-sell the military to the recruit. Therefore, the
letter requesting separation should be addressed to
"Commander" at the recruiting station where the recruit
signed up. You can look up the address of the recruiting
station in the phone book (under U.S. Government) or look
on the enlistment agreement. Keep a copy of the letter.
What happens after the letter is sent?

The military will review the letter and process the request. The
recruit might be asked to appear at the recruiting station for
a brief interview but this is not necessary, and, in fact, is not
recommended. The recruiter may aggressively try to change
your mind and if it doesn’t work, may then try to trick you into
reporting to a military base or facility. Once you have sent
your separation request letter, there is no need for further
contact with the recruiter or recruiting station. (If the military
turns down the initial request or tells you you must report to
a military base or facility to get discharged, contact the GI
Rights Hotline, 800.394.9544.) When the request has been
processed, the military issues a void enlistment or
uncharacterized separation that will not affect the recruit's
record or career.

more...

[felman87]

20. No one in the military wants soldiers to die

seargents will give their 110% to make sure everyone comes back alive. Statistically speaking, the chances of him dying are low, however, given the psychological aspect of war, sounds like your nephew might experience a few hard ships. I know this sounds a little sappy but constant letters from loving family members and friends is one of the best we can give our soldiers.

[cynatnite]

21. Yep, that makes a huge difference...

I was a big crybaby my first week at basic. I got a huge care package from my parents and it was great. Through the entire time the letters from home and packages made a difference. My Dad was very supportive all the way. My Mom worried and told me a few times that no one would think badly of me if I changed my mind or didn't make it. Their support really helped me a lot.

I do know people react differently to basic training. It's basically a complete change in culture. Some do well and others don't. They have a hard time adjusting to that lifestyle. This boy may do very well and he may not given the hardship he will face.

It can be character building, but it also can break someone, too.

I do hope the best for him.

[theanarch]

31. i guess that's why they say...

..."a good scout is a dead scout"...NCO's and junior officers don't make the policies that send the troops into combat; they don't decide how much equipment they get; they don't establish the Rules of Engagement...what you say is true at the unit level; above that, the higher you go, the more "political" and depersonalized it gets. Ask the boy if he really thinks Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld (the one's he's probably heard of) give the proverbial dead rat's ass about HIS safety and well-being.

[cynatnite]

32. Reminds me of Rummy's quote...

'You go to war with the army you're given' or something similar. That should be completely unacceptable and people should have been outraged. It meant that screw the guys on the ground doing the hard work...they get what they get and they'll shut up. Who cares that they don't get equipment that could save their lives. :grr:

It's criminal negligence. Rummy and the rest of those assholes should be held accountable.

[Lasher]

23. Afraid of thunderstorms?

Holy cow, what's he going to do on the firing range? I was drafted into the Army in 1969. At Fort Gordon, GA we tossed live grenades, just in basic training. We had to crawl underneath live machine gun fire, with explosions going off around us. I thought these parts of the experience were fun, but I worry that your nephew might not share the sentiment.

OK looks like he's already committed, so here is some advice that might help a recruit get through basic training:

1. Whatever the recruiter promises, get it in writing. It might be too late for this since he's already signed up, and this same advice has already been offered in this thread. But it's worth repeating. I clearly remember a good number of recruits who would tell our sergeants that they were supposed to go to a certain school or whatever. The sergeant always asked if they had it in writing from their recruiter and if not, the recruit's request was always rejected. Recruiters were real bad to lie back then and I assure you that is one thing that has not changed. And the sergeants clearly enjoyed telling these young men that these promises would not be honored.

2. Never volunteer for anything. The sergeants will ask for volunteers for tasks, some of which will seem like something you wouldn't mind doing. Never, ever volunteer, it's a setup. If you volunteer to be a truck driver you will end up pushing around a wheelbarrow of poop all day.

3. Don't stand out from the crowd. Every company had a Dufus that they always picked on. The Dufus was always somebody who stood out from the crowd in one way or another. You don't want to be that Dufus. If everybody around you is picking their noses, pick your nose. Another way of putting this is, even if your leg might be hurting, don't limp - the lions are watching.

[elocs]

69. I did give my nephew all 3 of those pieces of advice.

I don't know if he got promises in writing, but I did stress that. Otherwise I think the Army can send him or do with him what they think is best for the Army. Based upon what I had read online about basic training and boot camp I advised him to be as anonymous as possible and not to give the drill sergeants any reason, good or bad, to remember him.

The thunderstorm incident really concerns me about my nephew's nature. It was a family holiday at the Wisconsin Dells and he was staying in my room. His mother and 12 year old sister and her girlfriend were in the next room. We had been watching a movie on tv in the room when the lights went out at about 10 p.m. I decided that since it was that late and dark and no tv that I would go to sleep, but he went to go to his mother's room. When I woke up in the middle of the night I noticed that he had not come back. He spent the night in his mother's room at 15 years old and slept in her bed. I had told her I didn't think this was proper when he was 5 or 6 years old.
This was just 2 years ago. He got through military school ok, but this is the Army. I would be very worried about if he had to go to war and not just for his physical safety.

[NoodleBoy]

25. good luck, and be realistic, the ones who aren't are the most likely to

wake up screaming years later.

[dave123williams]

26. Tell them you're gay.

[nealmhughes]

27. Try to get into the Navy or CG NOW!

If he is not yet 17, he can't sign the contract and he still can't without a guardian's signature. I don't care what the recruiters tell him, that is the law. He cannot be bound by anything under 17 and then only after his guardians agree in writing. If they do not agree, then he can't enlist until he is 18 or has himself legally emancipated and/or a guardian ad litim appointed by a court. Don't tell him about that.
I'm a Navy veteran, and I am proud of my service, but that was in the 1980s and on a submarine, where our biggest fight was whether to have to watch the Grateful Dead Movie again or not at midnight..

[Ghost in the Machine]

28. My best advice for him would be to forget the army and find a good

apprenticeship program in a trade. like pipefitters, plumbers, carpenters or iron workers UNION. But, not knowing where your nephew lives, it would be hard to say if that is available. A good 4 or 5 year program would do him much better in the long run. Nothing against the military either, it'll definetly make or break him... but you don't really want him broke. With the situation in the world right now, this just isn't the time to be signing on with the military. Of course, if this were a justifiable and legal war, I'd be on the patriotic bandwagon, telling him to join up and fight for his Country. Sadly, that's just not the case in this Businessman's Illegal War of the First Resort for Oil.<~~~~ Thanks to our old pal Jerky over at http://dirtfiles.com )

[Dogmudgeon]

29. Something to keep in mind

Most people do okay in the service.

Most enlistees find that Basic is tough, but they also value the experience. In addition, unlike what they show in the movies, it's not a prolonged episode of abuse and degradation. Some people even enjoy Basic; normal people, not just nutcases.

Most soldiers who are sent into combat come back alive, even from high-casualty combat. This is not to say that combat will be a good or a "fun" experience, or risk-free, but if he is sent, the numbers are on his side.

Everything else that has been written here is, as far as I can tell from having had a father who was a Chief in the Army (who served several tours of duty from 1941-1983), correct. The dangers, deceptions, and stresses are all real. But most people survive them.

If there's still time and opportunity for him to change his mind, he really should. But if he's committed, wish him luck and try not to worry too much.

Even though his Boss (you know -- "the Decider") is a crooked, cowardly liar, he will be with some of the most "stand-up" Americans he'll ever meet.

I wish him luck. I hope he's assigned guard or grounds duty for some REMFs (Rear-Echelon ... Officers).

--p!

[w4rma]

33. Be careful. ~20,000 out of the ~130,000 troops in Iraq have been wounded

If he goes to Iraq, that means there is about a 15% chance of him being wounded also.

[michreject]

55. Aren't you a little misleading with your %?

What is the total number of deployment since day one? Only 130,000? Twice that amount? 3X's? 4X's.

If only twice, that would reduce the % of wounded down to 7.5%.

Nothing like being misleading in order to prove a point.:mad:

[w4rma]

58. I don't know. You find the number and tell me.

It's not my fault that the neo-cons running this war cover up any information that they think might harm them politically (as opposed to militarily or security-wise which they appear to care nothing about).

I know people are serving multiple tours of Iraq and many have been there for years.

I didn't even touch the numbers of folks that have been sent home for "disease" reasons, which appears to be a multiple of ~10,000.

[michreject]

59. OK. Here

The information is out there. You just gotta look unless you really don't want to know the results.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/bg1954.cfm

As a percentage of the total number of troops deployed, the numbers of U.S. soldiers killed in Iraq and Vietnam are comparable. A deployment of 8.7 million U.S. troops in Vietnam, relative to 58,000 fatalities, yields a ratio of seven-tenths of 1 percent. In comparison, the Iraq figures to date are approximately 500,000 deployments and 2,500 fatalities, a ratio of five-tenths of 1 percent.<8>

So there have been 500,000 soldiers deployed in the current conflict.

http://icasualties.org/oif/

Total wounded and returned to duty-10483

Total wounded not returned to duty-8789


Whats that % again?

[w4rma]

61. Thanks for the correction. The rates are indeed about the same as Vietnam

rates.

[michreject]

62. You're welcome

It's a bad situation to be in. I don't see how we will get out of this one. If the neighboring countries get involved, the numbers will rise......drastically.

Have a good morning.

[BlueAlert]

71. Just a question about your statistics

You posted <b>500,000 deployments</b>.
That doesn't necessarily mean <b>500,000 different soldiers</b> as people have been deployed more than once.

[michreject]

72. A tour is usally a year

Sometimes it's extended. Sometimes a soldier may pull several tours. The % are going to be the same. The military states that there will be 130,000 soldiers(X number) deployed to a operational area. The particulars are not important. It doesn't matter if a soldier has been there three time or it's his first assignment. All that matters is that the X number is fulfilled.

If a individual serves several tours of duty, his chances may increase, but the percentages of wounded/killed in relation to the total number of troops stationed will not change.

[BlueAlert]

77. I think you missed my point

It's that your article stated that there has been 500,000 deployments.
I mentioned that because people have been deployed more than once, 500,000 deployments != 500,000 different soldiers.
So the casualty rate is higher for each individual soldier.

[Posteritatis]

74. Do you know the WIA count for Vietnam? I've always wondered. (n/t)

[michreject]

76. This might answer your question

Total wounded-Southeast Asia Campaign= 304,704

http://www.rjsmith.com/kia_tbl.html

[Posteritatis]

78. Ow. (n/t)

[Phrogman]

34. Tell him "stupid attacks" can be fatal

e0m

[jspaddock123]

36. soldier..

For what it's worth, thank him from me. There comes a point, in every boy's life,
when he must become a man, and he will be doing a man's job. We are engaged in a fight
for the survival of all that we hold dear. Got bless him.

[niyad]

38. welcome to DU--while I agree with your thanks for our soldiers, I am truly

sorry that you think we ae engaged in some noble cause, rather than playing out the imperial dreams of the insane, war-mongering neocons of pnac and the end-timers.

[cynatnite]

39. Well, since women are doing the job as well...

I wouldn't call it a 'man's job'...

'We are engaged in a fight for the survival of all that we hold dear'....what does that mean? Are you talking about the war in Iraq where there is no WMD and a civil war has erupted? Or are you talking about Afghanistan where the terrorists were and bush has forgotten all about..oh, what's his name?...Osama something.

[patricia92243]

47. Welcome to DU. I agree with #38. n/t

[CJCRANE]

50. We replaced

a secular regime in Iraq with one made up of competing islamic parties engaged in a low-level civil war with coalition forces caught in the crossfire. Is that what you hold dear?

[blonndee]

57. "All we hold dear." What is that, exactly? And how is the military

fighting for it, again?

[karlrschneider]

68. "all we hold dear"???

Can I get some of whatever you're smoking?

[newspeak]

73. I'll have to ask my daughter if she's a man yet!!!!!

She is in the Army, but it must be those boys who face the trials of fire and become big he-men!!!!!!:rofl: My daughter has always, even as a child, had a military bent. Wanted to be a fighter pilot, then a helicopter pilot--and this mindset coming from a family who do not target practice or are pro-military. She's an excellent marksman and is very savvy out in the field. When she first enlisted (19 years old), I was hesitant about her joining the army, she had very high ASVAB scores, but only wanted to be a MP (it was her "I want to be a cop stage"), when she could have gone into computers-as the recruiter told her, anything she wanted to do. She got out and was in the Reserves until the warmongers came into office--she knew she would eventually be called to active, so she re-joined and went into the medical field. I'm glad she did-at least I was hoping she would be healing instead of hurting. War does not make a MAN out of a boy--sometimes they become broken soulless shells from what they have done or seen. The one thing I told my daughter is to follow your conscience. Question an illegal order--know what's legal and illegal-know it better than your superiors!!!! Follow the Geneva Convention, and try to come back with your conscience intact. She, at one time, was a para-legal, so she is very adept at understanding "legalese." My daughter has stated more than once that her first sworn duty is to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. I've asked her, "what happens when there's nothing of it left to defend?" She tells me she'll cross that bridge when it comes.

[Jamastiene]

40. Oh, dear.

He sounds like the type the military will turn into the worst type of killing machine. I hope he can keep his humanity intact. I'll wish the best for him, but there is a real possibility he will face some bitter battles and not win them all. I sure wish there was a way to get him out of that situation before he gets there. I hope the best for him, despite my fears for him.

[NNN0LHI]

41. Have you explained to him that his boss (Bush) is completely insane?

And a war criminal on top of that? Because if you haven't you should. Those are important little details.

Don

[WannaJumpMyScooter]

42. 25-year Vet here, now retired. One word. Don't.

Seriously.
This alleged pResident has done more damage to our armed forces than has ever been done by enemies.
It will take two generations to live this shit down, once it unravels, and it will.

If he has to go, tell him to keep the fuck out of combat arms.
Intel, if he has the scores, even better, get in the Army's boat program.

[NNN0LHI]

43. 6 years ago I would have advised the military as a good career to any...

...young person. Even my own children. We have come a long in a short time.

Don

[cynatnite]

45. Same here...

Hubby and I both would. Now, we discourage it and if a friend of our daughter does go, and one did, we tell them to strongly consider non-combat fields.

[patricia92243]

46. Is there a way for him to ask for a guarantee that he will be stationed st

state side? Make that a condition of joining.

Also, advise him to check into the other branches of the military in order to be sure he is joining the one that is best suited to him and his needs/wants.

He sounds like a very sensitive young man, and I'm afraid you are correct that being a soldier in the wrong way/place will break him.

I hope you keep us posted on this. I would like to know how he is doing.

[ChristianLibrul]

48. Conscientious Objector

He won't be open to it right now, being all 17 and suffering from a swollen penis. But you do the research for him on how to get out as a CO, and have it ready for when he realizes how big a mistake he's made.

[kentuck]

49. He doesn't sound ready...

It will only make matters worse, would be my guess. The military is not a place for psychiatric help.

[porphyrian]

52. Don't get killed.

An obvious one, but important.

[sarge43]

53. War story alert

At the headquarters of the AF basic training center there was a photo of a young man being awarded the AF Cross - the Crosses are second only to the Medal of Honor. Under the photo was a sign "This one was a foul-up." During basic the kid made every mistake on the book. He was always shaky, set back twice and was always one day away from an inadap discharge. Somehow he graduated, became a medic and later pararescue. The pararescue gang were medics who were airdropped, often into a fire fight, to treat and help remove downed aircrews - tough nasty duty. Kid saved a fighter jock's life at considerable cost to himself. Moral of the story: No predicting the potential of any individual.

Only a couple of things I'd add to the good advice about surviving basic already given: (1) Shut up. Training instructors are not fond of smart ass motor mouths. (2) Always keep in mind, this too shall pass. Millions of people done this; so will you. (3) Don't take it personally. Frankly, big picture, you aren't that important, unlikely the no neck bete noir in the Smokey hat will remember your name the day after you graduate.

By all means, get all promises in writing; however, keep in mind - there are no guarantees - the enlistment contract is up front about that. Check the fine print. He may be assigned training in a particular MOS; he may even work in it for X amount of time. Then, he could be told it's cross training time or detached duty time. Fecal material occurs and things change. Things from vast political and social events (the Soviet intell types got a big surprise when the Iron Curtain fell, most of them were no longer needed. Had to cross train or get out) to the MOS is dropped (there used to be tail gunners on B-52s) to personal changes - a medical problem arises etc.

In passing, on behalf of all the 'REMFs' named on the Wall (my former fiance, a pay clerk, included), there is no such thing as a safe job in a combat zone. Bombs, bullets and mines are utterly indifferent about their target. If and if, he most likely will not be physically injured; the odds are in his favor. He will be affected, probably adversely. No one goes through that experience without being wounded in some way.

Also, most of us vets and lifers are not monsters or even border line sociopaths. Most of us are decent, law abiding, contributing citizens. Military service changes some behavior; it doesn't change character. If an individual was a good person going in, s/he will stay that way. If not, garbage in, garbage out.

Finally, and I write this with great sadness, elocs, if there is anything you can do to stop your nephew from enlisting, do so. Bush and Co have corrupted the armed forces and today there is no honor in service. Whatever his experience in service might be, years from now he will deeply regret giving of himself for a lie.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

54. I just told the kid (19) next door he was nuts if he joined the Army.

He initially said he wanted to join the marines. I disillusioned him of that notion by sharing some of my experiences in "The Suck" (as we inmates called it when I was in). But, he still thinks he may join the Army.

I left him with the words I heard when I got off the PC at boot camp. "You'll beee Sooorrrry!"

He comes from a wealthy family and is hardly desperate for work or making a living. His RW daddy is pissed at me (like I care) for discouraging his eldest son who is "floundering" and "doesn't know what he wants to do" with his life.
I pointed out to him that he may not have a life to fret about it if the military gets it's hooks into him.

[lonestarnot]

56. Sure. If you willing to die or be maimed for a bushitler go ahead on and

don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

[tabasco]

60. Contribute the maximum amount to education funds.

If they still have it set up with optional contribution amounts.

Always remeber the Code of Conduct. You are one of the good guys.

Do your time, get out, and take advantage of the benefits (education funds, VA loan).

[JohnyCanuck]

64. Tell him to try to get a posting to a "remote office."

That way he'll be kept well to the rear and not have to risk breathing in air laden with carcinogenic depleted uranium particles from expended US munitions. A colonel explains the benefits of working in a remote office:

U.S. Colonel Admits 500 Tons of D.U. Were Used in Iraq

By Jay Shaft
Coalition For Free Thought In Media
5 May 2003

SNIP

J.S.: What about the health risks that are associated with D.U.? Or do you deny there are any?

U.S.C.: You are determined to get me to make a statement about the health risks aren�t you?

J.S.: If you will, I want to see what the behind the scenes view of D.U. is in the Pentagon.

U.S.C.: Well����� (long pause, followed by heavy profanity)�. Okay, I�ll give you some dirt if that�s what you�re looking for. The Pentagon knows there are huge health risks associated with D.U. They know from years of monitoring our own test ranges and manufacturing facilities.

There were parts of Iraq designated as high contamination areas before we ever placed any troops on the ground. The areas around Basra, Jalibah, Talil, most of the southern desert, and various other hot spots were all identified as contaminated before the war. Some of the areas in the southern desert region along the Kuwaiti border are especially radioactive on scans and tests.

SNIP

J.S.: So how do you feel about the fact that you exposed your own men to D.U.?

U.S.C.: F�k you!! What do you know about my job? I did what I had to do to take out the targets I was given. If it was necessary to use D.U., than I put it in my target analysis reports. I didn�t actually fire the rounds myself; I work in a remote office.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0305/S00050.htm

Those jobs in the "remote offices" are the best bet for sure.

More recently, Bush's and the Pentagon's reassurances were vigorously challenged by nuclear physicists and physicians at a scientific meeting, the World DU/Uranium Weapons Conference held in Hamburg, Germany during October 2003. New data suggest that orders of magnitude more Americans and Iraqis may have been poisoned by uranium from depleted uranium (DU) weapons explosions than Kurds had been killed by Saddam's gas in 1988. Review in Hamburg of the long term medical effects from DU exposures during the 1990s in Kosovo, Sarajevo, southern Iraq and from American veterans of the Gulf War reveal a frightening reality.

Conference scientists criticized as decades obsolete the Pentagon models used for reassuring the public about the long-term effects of inhaling uranium oxide particles from DU weapons. Citing the Pentagon model, the official 2003 Conference Statement concluded: "The knowledge on which this model is based is faulty and outdated. This is like comparing sitting in front of a fire with eating a hot coal."

According to the Conference, the mobility of the ceramic uranium oxide particles from DU weapons explosions is due to their re-suspension in dry weather. Measuring isotope ratios of U-238 and Pa-234m/Th-234 in water and air measurements by UNEP in Kosovo, Bosnia and Montenegro has showed this. Uranium oxide particles are available for inhalation long after the war is over. Anyone in the general area of their prior use is at risk, several years after their use or contamination. This had been proven by urine measurements in Kosovo in 2001. All of the people sampled showed contamination from DU. This was also shown by urine tests of Gulf War veterans made 10 years after their exposure.

After the Gulf War, Iraqi and international epidemiological investigations enabled the environmental pollution due to using this kind of weapon to be associated with the appearance of new, very difficult to diagnose diseases (serious immunodeficiencies, for instance) and the spectacular increase in congenital malformations and cancer. This had been found both in the Iraqi population and also among several thousands of American and British veterans and in their children, a clinical condition now called Gulf War Syndrome. Similar symptoms to those of the Gulf War have been described for a thousand children living in Bosnia where American aviation similarly used DU bombs in 1996, the same as in the NATO intervention against Yugoslavia in 1999.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0406/S00330.htm

[Nikia]

65. There are different career areas in the army

I know that potentially any of these career fields could be assigned to Iraq but his primary responsibility would not have to be defensive or offensive fighting. He should talk to the recruiter about what field he could get into. When I was considering going into the army for example, I would have gone into the pharmacy tech program.

[elocs]

66. My nephew dropped out of high school to go to Lincoln Challenge Academy

in Illinois that is run by the National Guard. He got his GED in the 6 months he was there in spite of the fact that his high school class starts their senior year this month. I guess ordinarily that you cannot get a GED until your high school class graduates, but this program has a waiver since it is run by the state. (He also did not get his 1st choice in Army training because he only has a GED and not a high school diploma.) He actually has a year to go before he successfully completes the program. His requirement after graduating the academic portion is that he either goes to school or gets a job. His heart was set on going into the Army and he showed no inclination about getting a job or going to school. When he went to the Academy he was pretty much sold on the military side of things.

My nephew's parents are divorced. His father, who had served in the Navy, did not want him to enlist and his mother was not sure. My advice to his mother was not to sign for him as he would be 18 in February of 2007 and could do it on his own. But I guess he was so determined to go that they both signed for him. I gave him my advice, so he knows the other side. Boot camp will be tough, but the National Guard academy he went to was a military school and run like one and less than half the kids that started the program graduated. He is a rather short kid, but after 6 months there he came back 30 pounds heavier and it was all muscle.

This kid, like many of his generation, spends much of his time playing video games, particularly the war, shoot, kill, destroy video games. That is one of my big concerns because in life you only get one life and when you are wounded you do not just get up and fight again. But I also wanted to give my nephew some advice about having moral courage, to have the courage to not obey illegal orders, to commit atrocities, to participate in torture of prisoners. After all, the first part of his oath is to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

Those of you who have kids know that they are determined to do what they want to do. I have told my sister that the older her son gets the more he is responsible for decisions that affect his life. He is on the road to becoming a man now and he is responsible for his choices and he has decided he want to join the Army and will be on his way in 10 days. In spite of the way I feel about the entire situation I now have to put the best face on it to encourage him and keep his spirits up. Even though I believe he is doing the wrong thing I want him to do the right things while he is in the Army. And hope for the best.

[JohnyCanuck]

67. Have him read this - Bad Apples from a Rotten Tree

Bad Apples from a Rotten Tree

Military Training and Atrocities

By Sgt. MARTIN SMITH, USMC (Ret.)

The mounting revelations of war crimes in Iraq have ripped the mask of democracy and nation-building off of a fatigued and wearied Uncle Sam, revealing the true face of U.S. imperialism. At least thirty U.S. servicemen are being prosecuted or are under investigation for the murder of Iraqi civilians. Twenty-one year old Steven Green, who served in the 502nd Infantry Regiment, was charged with the gang rape and murder of a fourteen-year old Iraqi girl in Al-Mahmudiyah, south of Baghdad.

The accused, with the assistance of five other soldiers, allegedly premeditated the attack and carried it out in broad daylight. After a drinking bout, the soldiers changed out of their uniforms and Green covered his face with a brown skivvy undershirt to avoid detection as they entered the woman's house to commit the crime. After the sexual assault, they murdered her and poured a flammable liquid over her body to destroy the evidence. Afterwards, Green shot the victim's parents and sister in the head, execution-style. The soldiers made a pact to never discuss the incident.

Yet this is just the tip of the iceberg of the U.S. occupation's horror show in Iraq. Out of revenge for the death of a fellow Marine, who had died from a roadside bomb last November, members of Kilo Co, 3rd BN, 1st Marine Regiment are accused of killing twenty-four unarmed civilians in Haditha. Iraqis claim that Marines gunned down unarmed teenagers in the streets and then stormed through homes, killing residents, including babies and the elderly, in what can only be described as a blood bath. Likewise, in March in the town of Ishaqi, witnesses claim that eleven civilians, including children under the age of five and a seventy-five year old woman, were forced into a corner of a room with hands bound and then brutally shot by U.S. troops.

SNIP

Liberal analyses rely on two versions of the "bad apple" hypothesis that are equally inept. On the one hand, it is claimed that the war crimes are the result of a renegade president who flaunts international law. According to such a view, the impeachment of Bush would be a step forward in remapping what is merely a stray path on which the neo-con Republicans have circuitously navigated U.S. democracy. On the other, many argue that such incidents are the result of a few deranged individuals and that Steven Green's discharge with a "personality disorder" is proof that his actions represent an isolated incident by an unstable individual. The former argument buys into the liberal myth that the U.S. military is somehow capable of humanitarian interventions-if only Al Gore or John Kerry were president, or so they say. Such an assessment fails to acknowledge that U.S. imperialism has never been humanitarian nor has it been free of blatant war crimes, as the history of military intervention under Clinton in Kosovo or Somalia will attest. The latter is merely another version of the "support our troops" sloganeering which holds that the U.S. military, as a whole, represents the lofty ideals of honor, courage and commitment. While many have loved ones or relatives in service; or may have served in the military themselves, there can be no denial that the military is a tool of big business--and comes at a cost to human life that is, as they say, "priceless." In describing the interventions that he participated in during the early decades of the 20th century--and the corporate interests he served--U.S. Marine Gen. Smedley Butler said: "I spent most of my time being a high class muscle-man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism."

http://counterpunch.org/smith08052006.html

[lies and propaganda]

70. dont. n/t