Move over PRIUS.....behold the 330 MPG biodisle-hybrid concept car

[iconoclastNYC]

The excellent blog http://www.treehugger.com covers the 330 MPG concept car:

****
This concept car is amazing! It is a 2-seat, 3-wheel serial (bio)diesel hybrid called the Aptera: It achieves 330 miles per gallon (0.7 liter/100 kilometers!) in normal city and highway driving, has a 0.055-0.06 coefficient of drag (much lower than even the best current hybrids, and even than other cool prototypes like the 70 mpg Boxfish diesel hybrid by DaimlerChrysler) and a projected price of less than $20,000. Great uh? But the reaction of most people when they look at it is: "It'll never pass safety tests! You'd get run over by an Escalade!"



They are most probably right; if that vehicle was to be on our roads at the same time as the huge vehicles we currently have, it would be at a ginormous safety disadvantage. But if it was on the road with other vehicles of the same type (not necessarily as small, but in the same ballpark of weight and efficiency -- we'd gladly settle for the bigger 200 mpg biodisel-hybrid compromise that could be designed using the same technologies), the playing field would be level and safety would not be such a problem. It is the same thing with SUVs vs cars; road mortality had been dropping for decades until suburbanites & other people who don't need them started buying trucks, and now road-safety has been compromised.

The real problem is: Even if we can make very efficient vehicles with radical new designs, how do we get them on the road? How do we make the transition from our current breed of heavy metal machines to small aerodynamic composite-materials hybrids (and fuel cells) without having both types share the pavement?

The faster that happens, the best it will be for all of us, but the way things are going, it will probably unfold in North-America is like this: oil will keep getting more expensive, SUVs sales will keep going down, cars will progressively slim down (Small Japanese Cars Are Coming to North-America, Again) and hybridizing until North-America catches up to Europe and Asia in vehicle size. Then it will be a lot more realistic to envision a move to such cool vehicles as the concept-hybrid mentioned at the beginning of this post.
***

Full post at : http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/01/how_to_make_awe.php

The only reason we are not energy independent is because big oil has bought off our government and the CIA sees oil as Americans best opportunity to choke off resistance to American imperialism. Innovation has been stifled.

[DS1]

1. That would be way cool

and the "what about the BIG SUVs, won't I need one too?" question is only asked by morons. I say we move ahead and leave them in the past, at the pump, broke.

[BurtWorm]

6. If it had a big enough trunk and a place for my wife and daughter

I'd consider buying it.

:thumbsup:

[phantom power]

2. Another drawback to these designs is cargo capacity.

People have been designing hulls like this for a hundred years (see Buckminster Fuller). There's a reason they weren't ever used. You can't actually transport very much in them. (that, and those kind of curving surfaces are hard to manufacture, particularly with early 20th century machining tech)

[iconoclastNYC]

3. True but....

Imagine the future where cars can drive themselves (not that far away.) Now imagine a huge fleet of these as driverless taxis, just to commute to and from airports, train stations, suburbs to city centers. Plus the technology pioneered in this concept will trickle down to normal sized cars. So it's exciting nonetheless.

There are a lot of situations where you aren't carrying cargo.

[phantom power]

9. Back in the 90s, a co-worker of mine pointed out...

that we already have technology very similar to what you're describing, which we call "trains" or "subways" :-)

The A.I. developer in me thinks it would be extremely cool to develop autonomous vehicles that are capable of syncing up with each other, and then breaking off to various individual destinations (in fact, my coworker and I were discussing this in context of an R+D project bid), but the value-added over and above a relatively lo-tech bus, trolley, or light-rail system doesn't seem very compelling.

[iconoclastNYC]

14. Yeah that's a typical response

Trains/subways. Problem is that people in a lot of the country associate these things with homeless people. Plus it takes tons of new PUBLIC expenditures to make these projects happen. Republican equate this with treason.

The roads are allready built to do AI run cars.

I think what you need is centrally dispatched AI assisted automous carpooling. Have the HOV lanes only be for computer driven cars that work in tandem like a virtual train. This idea has been around for 20 years but cheap wi-fi communication and GPS makes it much more viable now.

[phantom power]

20. True, existing infrastructure favors a road-based system, not rail.

My prediction (and probably recommendation) is that buses will become big in the near future. If I were a city with a billion dollars to spend on mass-transit, I'd spend it on upgrading and expanding the bus system. You can buy a lot of buses, and add a lot of new routes, with that kind of money. If you sink the same amount of money into trying to build a light-rail system, you get a lot less bang for the buck, since you have to purchase all the new right-of-ways, build the rails, etc. I used to support the Phoenix light-rail project, but the more I think about it, the more I believe that the money would have been far better spent on expanding the bus system instead.

The psychology of buses is, sadly, a problem, but I think it's less forbidding than it seems. This fall, bus usage skyrocketed here in Phoenix, in reaction to $3/gallon gasoline. Moreover, people discovered that the bus system is actually much nicer than they assumed.

I also think that the bicycle is poised to make a big comeback.

[iconoclastNYC]

21. Yes I agree about buses.

I was thinking about doing a "luxury" city-to-city Bus coach. Travelling from New York to a lot of midwestern cities is a real BITCH via air. Travelling via Bus SUCKS.

So I was thinking if you had very plush nice busses with an area that you can stretch your legs, nice bathrooms, and DirecTV at every seat, that'd be the way to travel. City center to city center. No airport hassles.

[oneold1-4u]

27. The rails are efficient!

Had the US built only half as many rails as they have highways, the most economic,safest, and least polluting means of travel between cities would be to put self and car on train and go.
Both Europe and the Orient have far surpassed the US with the most modern means of rail transportation.

[bananas]

10. cars were curvy

they had fins and all kinds of curved surfaces

http://info.detnews.com/joyrides/story/index.cfm?id=478

[bananas]

13. compare the 330mpg design to this one from 1938

http://info.detnews.com/joyrides/story/index.cfm?id=473
Angela Cantore stands next to her French 1938 Talbot T23 Tear-Drop Coupe with an outfit she had made in Paris to match the colors of the car. The rare Talbot has a special body by Figoni et Falaschi and belongs to Angela and Joseph Cantore of Oakbrook, Ill.

[phantom power]

22. I guess my thoughts about machining tech are bogus.

I could swear I recall reading some article about how much better modern metalworking is at curved surfaces, but they clearly did plenty of it back then too.

[mattclearing]

4. Tax breaks for buying them, express lanes for their exclusive use.

Just a thought.

[iconoclastNYC]

16. Progessive NYS just passed regs to allow high-MPG cars HOV access

Plus cheaper EasyPass rates. :)

[trogdor]

18. Really?

Tell me more? Does my Scion xA qualify?

[iconoclastNYC]

19. Here you go.

http://www.fuelcellsworks.com/Supppage4314.html

Initiatives Will Boost Production and Use of Renewable Fuels, Promote Use of Energy-Efficient Vehicles, Position NY as World Leader in Renewable Energy Research and Job Creation, and Provide Relief from High Heating Bills

Governor George E. Pataki today unveiled a comprehensive, multi-faceted plan that will help reduce New York’s dependence on imported energy, position the State to become a center for renewable energy research and job creation, and provide help for soaring home heating bills to New Yorkers.

The plan, most of which will be included in the Governor’s Executive Budget that will be unveiled tomorrow, is designed to encourage the production and use of renewable fuels in New York, promote the expanded use of energy-efficient cars and vehicles, spur new renewable energy research and job creation, and provide relief to New Yorkers from rising energy bills.

“New York State must continue our efforts to increase energy efficiency and the use of clean and renewable fuels so that we can reduce our dependence on imported energy,” Governor Pataki said. “My plan will encourage the development of more new and more energy-efficient technologies, bolster the production and use of renewable fuels, and help to reduce the high energy cost burdens that hurt our families and our economy.”

Highlights of the Governor’s plan include: elimination of state taxes on renewable automotive fuels; creation of new renewable fuel stations across the State; development of “clean coal” power plants; a new hybrid vehicle tax credit; discounted Thruway tolls for hybrid vehicles; creation of a new state-of-the-art alternative fuel vehicle research lab; new tax-free benefits for clean energy companies that create jobs; a new $500 tax heating credit for lower-income seniors; a $50 million increase in Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Program (LIHEAP) benefits, and a new tax credit for homeowners who upgrade to a high-efficiency home heating system.

New HOV Lanes Access for Alternative Fueled Vehicles: This new initiative will allow cars and other vehicles that average at least 45 mpg and meet certain EPA emissions standards to use HOV lanes in New York City and on the Long Island Expressway -- regardless of the number of occupants in the vehicle.

[oneold1-4u]

33. A true progressive

If this one man were president today and putting this into honest action, he would immediately put himself in a life threatening position from the type that are in office today!
The progressives will win and keep winning in the future only if the greater number of people will stand behind them enough that they cannot be bought off by those demanding to remain in the same old structure, and ripping off the people.
When the peoples money is returned in things that benefit all, then the nation can once again claim honest prosperity, and recover stability and respect in the world!
With this type of progression we won't need war to steal another nations OIL!

[KoKo]

5. It's kind of ugly....looks like a "Weeblesmobile." n/t

[Flubadubya]

8. It's the Oscar Meyer Wienermobile in a new bun...

Bwahaha!!! :rofl:

[iconoclastNYC]

17. As someone in 1970 what a 2005 Mercedes looks like

The response would probably be : "Ugly"

[oneold1-4u]

39. "Ugly"

Was a VW Bug! We sometimes forget that the past can give many lessons. Every VW I owned got 30+MPG and a whole new or rebuilt motor could be replaced in under one hour!
One other innovation would be to allow people with any energy saving vehicle to be able to have one permanent license and no sales tax. If programs are once begun people will always want to go there and save.

[orion9941]

7. It looks like a suppository on wheels.

[bananas]

11. oh no - a rear-end collision could be really painful!

[truthInCO]

12. Sweet! I'll give $15k for it.

[KittyWampus]

15. Regular cars already suffer from serious crash compatibility problems

with SUVs.

There's an enormous and deadly impact on regular cars from SUV's and auto manufacturers knew that when they were designing them.

I am waiting for the class action lawsuit against SUV manufacturers.

Not only did they know their designs would kill, they purporsely designed them to appeal to people's aggressive, reptilitan impulses and then used that in their advertising.

[oneold1-4u]

23. Innovation has been stifled.

There have been thousands of innovative ideas and creations that have been bought up and "literally dumped and destroyed" for the sake of pre-existing industry profits. A few examples:
Lifetime of vehicle tires, streets paved with old tires that don't wear out tires, self cooling transmissions, carburetors that will run on any type of cheap fuel, (including corn and peanut oil). Today, there are products that surpass many of the petroleum products, including all plastics, but without demand, they will never happen.
Every need of mankind is here in abundance and what is more abundant than brush grass and weeds, or even cultivated agriculture for fuels, building materials, paper, energy etc. A truly progressive nation should not have the horrible wastes that industry in the US demands each day!

[Cleita]

24. Wow, I was wishing for something similar and it looks like

it's possible. Maybe a special lane on freeways for these cars could start a transition? Instead of the car pool lane make it the bio-diesal hybrid car lane.

[grace0418]

25. "...how do we get them on the road?" Make people think they'll be

cool if they have one. Seriously, the vast majority of Americans are still just as susceptible to peer pressure as they were in high school. They were so easily convinced that they NEEDED a giant, planet-sized SUV because all their neighbors started buying them. No minivan or station wagon was good enough any more. Suddenly it became impossible to imagine driving to the local mall without 4WD and 3,000,000 lbs. of vehicle surrounding you and your one child.

So, find a way to convince them that they'll be in the cool club if they buy one of these and they'll be all over it.

[Cleita]

26. Off topic. About your signature.

You need an equal sign in it.

im + *peach* = *shrub* Makes it look like an equation

Or im + *peach* the *shrub*

Otherwise it's terrific.

[grace0418]

38. Thanks! it's just "impeach bush" so an = sign wouldn't

be correct in that case. The plus sign is a throwback to the old picture puzzles people used to do a lot.

[Xithras]

28. Tri-wheel designs are unstable at high speed.

Or in sharp turns. Remember the Pontiac marketing campaign a few years ago, "Wider is better"? That was true because the wider the wheelbase is compared to height, the more stable a vehicle is and the better it handles. The narrower the suspension is, the more body roll the vehicle will have and the more unstable it will be. In tripod designs, the weelbase width on the back tire is only as wide as the site itself, making it extremely unstable.

People have tried 3 wheel designs before, but they always get abandoned for safety and performance reasons. They do offer the adcantage of having less rolling resistance than 4 wheeled vehicles, and they can turn in place unlike w4 wheeled vehicles, but that's where their advantages stop.

[Cleita]

29. I really don't see why this couldn't be done larger and with

four wheels and still be eco-friendly. After all people with families will need a back seat and a place for packages and other *frieght*.

After all, Willie Nelson and Jane Fonda are traveling around the country in bio-diesel motorhomes and those babies aren't small.

[Xithras]

42. Yeah, but they get like 10MPG.

Bio diesel still pollutes, it just comes from a renewable resource so is sustainable. Biodiesel still generates the same particulate and greenhouse pollution as normal diesel, it's just easier on the concience.


As for small cars, many ultra-efficient proposals trot out the tripod design because it's more fuel efficient. Less rolling resistance, less wind resistance, and less weight means a big savings on fuel. You could add a fourth tire back to the design, but the mileage loss wouldn't be trivial.

[Drifter]

30. That is the stupidest thing I have ever seen ...

even if it achieves 330 MPG it is not a practical car.

Sorry, if you can't own this and use it as a family car, then you effectively remove 80% of the population from even considering to buy it.

Cheers
Drifter

[Squatch]

32. So that's why I see so many Porsche boxsters

and Nissan Z's.

[oblivious]

34. Still, 20% is a lot of people, and for some others, maybe a second car?

For when they travel light or solo or whatever.

[Squatch]

31. It *STILL* uses an internal combustion engine...

(first patented in 1854)

You would think that with the advent of the space age and given the rate at which we are learning about our universe, we could design economically viable alternatives to fossil fuels (and other combustibles like biodiesel) and internal combustion engines.

[Xithras]

44. Define "economically viable"

People have built fully functional prototypes of environmentally friendly cars that we could build today, but nobody will buy them. I was looking at an article on one a few months back that used a small fuel cell, an electric motor, and fuel generated from agricultural waste. Not only did the design function, but the overall plan would have cut greenhouse gasses by eliminating both tailpipe emissions and decay emissions from ag waste.

The problem? It's underpowered. The vehicle had a top speed of about 60, and it took a while to get there. Nobody was interested in the concept because buyers simply wont own an automobile that's both slow and has no accelleration. It could be biult TODAY for the same amount of money as a modern car, but there are too few buyers to make the infrastructure investment worthwhile.

[welshTerrier2]

35. how to transition to smaller vehicles

some believe the market will eventually destroy the demand for piggish, oversized vehicles ... it won't ... there will always be the wealthy, royalty class who has to have the biggest one on the road ...

the issue of safety and how to transition from mega-sized vehicles to tiny weenies is a very real issue ... what we've seen in this country over the last 20 years or so is a "bigger is safer" mentality ... if yours is bigger than mine, i have to get a bigger one than yours to ensure my family is safe ... of course, there's virtually no end to this insanity ... i'm surprised more people are not driving around in garbage trucks ...

so, what's the solution ... offering those who can't afford these behemoths smaller, cheaper-to-operate vehicles does not address the safety concerns with large and small vehicles sharing the same space ... market arguments put no pressure at all on those who are virtually immune to gas prices ... so, the piggies just keep on pigging ... unless, of course, government intervenes ...

the solution to making a transition is really very easy ... with plenty of notice, even years of notice, we increasingly restrict the space and time during which oversized vehicles can use the roads ... this could be combined with added tolls and taxes but i don't think the economic argument is sufficient to discourage use of gas guzzling pigs ... so, we restrict space and time ...

by space, i mean that certain roads, or certain lanes, are off limit to piggy vehicles ... it's interesting to note that many interstate highways ban trucks from the left lane ... SUV's however, which are classified as trucks to get around certain safety regulations, are permitted in the left lane ... perhaps they should not be ... how many SUV piggies would want to own a gas guzzler that could not be used in the left lane on major highways?? and this only addresses lane restrictions ... perhaps biggy piggies should not be permitted on certain roads at any time at all ... this is already done on selected roads for large trucks ...

we should also look at restricting the hours SUV's can be used ... suppose we said that SUV's were not permitted on the roads during commuting hours within 25 miles of major cities ... let's say we barred the use of SUV's between 7 am and 10 am and then again between 4 pm and 7 pm ... this would allow commuters to travel more safely to and from work ... while better mass transit still might be preferable, one policy should not preclude the other ...

with plenty of lead time, i.e. announcing that in say, five years, these restriction will be put in place, consumers will be given sufficient time to alter their buying decisions ... and then, as time passes, the restrictions can be made tighter and tighter ... we don't really have a choice ... we cannot continue to waste fuel the way we are ... having enough money to pay higher prices for fuel is no justification for wasting it ...

it's time for government to intervene ... global warming has reached the crisis stage ... we are at war for oil ... the implications of continuing our current blundering are staggering ... it's time to put some sanity back in our energy policies and seize control from the stranglehold BIG OIL holds on our government ... the solutions are easy is the power structure is committed to pursuing them ...

[0rganism]

36. Probably at least as safe as a motorcycle

I've seen a few similar designs floating around the company parking lot, in use as commuter cars. All one-seaters though.

[ComerPerro]

37. That windshield design looks unsafe

but I would love to drive a car like that. And if it starts at less than $20k, then that makes it all the better...

[Vidar]

40. Semis would also be a problem, unfortunately.

[recoveringrepublican]

41. No the real problem is fitting a family of 4 in it! I WANT ONE!

I fricken hate that, all the cool cars only seat 2! lol. Well I guess I'll just go with the Honda Civic, not hybrid, all the dealers here are pricing them at 25K.

[KansDem]

43. "...You'd get run over by an Escalade!"

Then outlaw the huge vehicles.

Sorry, folks, but there comes a time when the viability of the planet wins out over our own vain self-interests...