IF a REPUBLICAN TELLS YOU IT'S SAFER IN IRAQ THAN HERE...

[craychek]

Give them a little lesson in mathmatics. There are 16,100ish murders in the US each year making the murder rate approximately 5.5 people for every 100,000 people. In iraq, so far, there have been 37700-44700 civilan deaths so far. Add on the troop deaths and divide that by the years the iraq "war" has been going on, there have been about 16,000 deaths per year in Iraq. HOWEVER, there are only 26.7 million people in iraq according to the US while we have closer to 297 million. Thus, the death rate of civilians in the iraqi "war" in iraq per 100,000 people is 59... that's more than 10xs the rate in the US. This of course, NOT taking into account Iraqi army deaths, "disappearances" and unconfirmed civilian casualties or insurgent casualties. This is just confirmed deaths of iraqi civilians and us soldiers. The actual rate is higher and more than likely 70-80. The high range would be 100-110 me thinks... but htat takes into account too many assumptions and I like dealing with facts. They are much more effective debating points.

Anyways, that's my two cents.

[emanymton]

1. Don't Argue The Issue! You Are Fighting 'Them' On Thier Terms.

You lose before you even start.

[rodeodance]

2. just pass along Riverbends last blog

[craychek]

4. Of course...

They don't believe river's blog. They think that she's faking it and is some liberal here in the states... I've heard that said to me before, though honestly, there really is no way to tell if she is real or not. It's one of those things we take on faith.

[magellan]

5. If River isn't real

...then she's managed to scam a publishing house and a couple of book awards committees. Check out Feminist Press - Baghdad Burning. Baghdad Burning II is due out in the fall.

[elehhhhna]

15. I always offer to print hem an Enlistment form. Works every time.

[EST]

3. Nicely done. Every little bit helps.

Of course, one must keep in mind that the person with whom one is dealing is assumed to be able to think and it has been amply demonstrated that a human in thrall of the neoclown agenda and talking points is incapable of original thought. It becomes a battle of the talking points, making it no more that an exercise in futility--anyone can benefit from a little exercise, however.

Gotta keep banging away at them: sooner or later they are going to lose the argument as well as their own perceived grip on "reality" and they are going to need to be propped up and put on life support.

[NewJeffCT]

6. Right now, it's about 3,000 Iraqis per month

Making it at least 36,000 per year.

Additionally, the US population recently broke 300 million.

[KharmaTrain]

7. My Plane And Hotel Fare Offer Still Stands

I have a standing offer to any asshat who dares to try tell me that things are "safer" or "better" in Iraq...I'll gladly pay for their plane fare and seven days at a hotel outside the Green Zone for them. I'll even drive them to the airport and make sure they get a nice send-off. :rofl:

Ya know...not a single taker for what could be a one-in-a-lifetime vacation valued at several thousand dollars. Hell, Monty Hall couldn't have done any better. Ya think? And damn...no takers. Lately, I haven't heard that mantra...it's moved on now to "we need to fight them there so we don't fight them here". Just as lame.

[creeksneakers2]

8. Our troops face those dangers

and yet righties deny those dangers exist. That's a pretty shabby way to treat our troops. The sacrifice of our troops should be recognized.

[Oversea Visitor]

9. Of course it is safer

Why you think they need airlift supplies instead of using road convoy now :rofl:

[Toots]

10. Ask him why Republicans cut the hundred thousand police program then..

Republiicans have had total control for six years now so why is the USA less safe than a war zone? Remember it wasn't just seven years ago...

[Ravenseye]

11. I know what I tell them

I tell them that I have family there who lived through the military revolutions in the 50s, the iran/iraq war in the 80s, the gulf war and sanctions in the 90s, and gulf war 2 and the occupation in the 00s. (pronounced aughts) They lived under dictators, and Saddam. They lived through scud missile attacks from Iran, and tomahawk missiles flying down their streets from U.S. Warships. They've at times gotten their water from the polluted river, and boiled it with fires made from wood they had saved because there was no cooking fuel, or fresh water. My grandfather died from lack of access to simple anti-biotics during the sanctions when Saddam hoarded them. A cousin was shot by a security detail and nearly killed for simply standing on their roof when one of Saddam's sons was randomly driving by. They lived through hell and war and never left...

Until now. My grandmother lived through all that and always said "Baghdad is my home." "it's not that bad." until the past year when she started begging us to get her out.

We got her out a couple of months ago finally.

The actual numbers are unclear but I've heard estimates are something like 5 million Iraqi Refugees in Jordan alone. That's 1 in 5 people who have fled their country in terror, who didn't do ie before during all that.

Safer in Iraq than here. If a Republican actually had the gall to tell me that, I'd tell him what I just told you, then maybe add in your numbers, and then call them a brainwashed fucktard and walk away.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

12. Hang on.

You say "civilian deaths". How are you defining that - presumably the vast majority of civilian deaths in Iraq are from old age and things like that; not something comparable with a murder rate.

[tabasco]

13. He's using the number of civilian casualties of the war,

and using very conservative numbers.

A comparison of the violent death rates in both countries.

We have crime, they have war.

Many leading republicans have touted how US cities are just as dangerous as Baghdad, using fabricated statistics. Only the most gullible people in the world would believe the republican lies. But that's what we have here in the USA. Millions of them.

The OP's example shows how easily the lies are debunked.

FWIW, it's been awhile since I've heard a republican make those outrageous claims. I guess even the sheep wake up sometime. Iraq has become such a bloodbath even dumb republican voters can't be told it's great anymore. Instead, it will be spun as something good for Bush that civil war has finally escalated.

[iamahaingttta]

14. Someone tried that line on me...

...and my response was:

"Oh, just shut the fuck up, would you?"