I wish every Democrat could garner the courage from within like Hillary,

[mtnsnake]

and look Rumsfeld straight in the eye while giving him the same exact mouthful that Senator Clinton gave him yesterday.

It's no small wonder she gets the press that she does, yet all she gets around here is more criticism for her gutsy remarks than she does praise.

Heck, if any of the local DU favorites ever told Rumsfeld off to his face like Hillary just did, there'd be a thread about it with at least 500 responses and 101 votes for greatest page. Instead, it's "ahh, she did it just for personal gain" or the likes of that.

Hey, whatever you think about her, the lady is a trend setter and she has guts.

[cali]

1. Nonsense, many dems in the Senate and House

have faced repukes and excoriated them. She's not alone. And she's hardly an example of polical courage. She's got triangulation down pat.

[mtnsnake]

5. I was referring soley to the comments she made to Rumsfeld's face

and not about any generalizations about other Democrats who "have faced repukes and excoriated them".

[Connie_Corleone]

2. A little early to start stirring up a hornets nest, isn't it?

Get ready for the anti-Hillary brigade.

[mtnsnake]

6. Had no choice

I gotta leave in a litte bit, so it was either early or not at all. :evilgrin:

[aquaman]

3. Courage?

I call is a political move that suits her. She should have come out this strong a long time ago. Courage??? Yea right.

[mtnsnake]

8. So I guess you would've been happier if she never said it at all

Wow, remaining silent is NOT the way for our party to ever get back on top again.

I say better late than never. I don't care what her ulterior motives are....it was absolutely refreshing to hear ANY Democrat blast that fucker Rumsfeld right in his face in front of the entire country.

[aquaman]

17. No, I would be happier,

If she had grown a spine earlier. Hillary sucks. Russ Feingold is someone with courage, speaks his mind whether it is politically a good move are not. Hillary is not even in the same league.

[mtnsnake]

19. "If she had grown a spine earlier"? haha, that's funny

If there's one thing that CAN'T be said it about her, it's that she hasn't had a spine.

When this did this become a Hillary vs Feingold thing? Did you think I was referring to him in particular or something? Hmmm...

[aquaman]

20. Oh Jesus, get a grip..... What the hell are you talking about?

It's not a Hillary vs. Feingold thing. Thats your perception. I was using an example of a democrat with a voice, conviction, and consistency. Hillary is a political machine, does things for political reasons first, convictions second. My opinion.

[mtnsnake]

24. Well, if you're going to get into that...

It's not a Hillary vs. Feingold thing. Thats your perception. I was using an example of a democrat with a voice, conviction, and consistency. Hillary is a political machine, does things for political reasons first, convictions second. My opinion.

It's also the opinion of many Democratic voters that Feingold occasionally does things "for political reasons first, convictions second", such as his proposal to censure Bush as an alternative to future impeachment, a motion that MANY people thought was a means of Feingold catapulting himself into the limelight as a political contender for the 2008 Democratic nomination. It was argued that he was being political first in that sense, too. Don't get me wrong. I like Feingold okay, although I'm not 100% sold on him yet.

[aquaman]

25. I am not getting into anything....I expressed my opinion....

I am sorry that I am not a Hillary fan, I guess that she is better that many senators such as Lieberman. But your right, I love Hillary, she is the greatest.

[existentialist]

4. Hillary v. Rumsfeld

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad she stood up to Rumsfeld.

If she had done so before, or even at about the same time, that John Murtha changed his position on Iraq, that would have been courageous.

Hillary is clearly very capable, and she's welcome to join the ranks of those confronting the administration over failed policies in Iraq and elsewhere.

But where she just now seems to be picking up on this necessity, and that less than fully where the last I knew she was still supporting Lieberman in the Democratic primary, please, don't be calling her a leader or a "trend setter.".

[mtnsnake]

11. I only called her a trend setter because

it seems that other rank and file Democrats occasionally do jump on board with her after she makes a gutsy call similar to the one she made yesterday.

[karynnj]

18. "Gutsy"

This was NOT in August 2006, gutsy. I give her credit for doing it, but gutsy and courageous are over the top.

Frankly, I'm not surprised. By 2007, the media will have created a Hillary, who fought Bush on his insane Iraq war. Her vote and her position from 2003 - 2006 will be hidden behind a veil.

[cboy4]

7. Gutsy would have been voting "No" on the war.

Calling for his resignation is not going to reverse the damage she signed on to, now will it?

Almost seems hypocritical, IMO.

[mtnsnake]

9. Yes, under the circumstances, voting NO to the IWR would've been gutsy too

She was in similar company on that:

Democratic Senators voting Yes to the IWR:

Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Breaux (D-LA)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carnahan (D-MO)
Carper (D-DE)
Cleland (D-GA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Daschle (D-SD)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Edwards (D-NC)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hollings (D-SC)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Miller (D-GA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Schumer (D-NY)
Torricelli (D-NJ)

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

10. She's coming to realize that there are voters on the left.

Many of whom hold her in contempt for her backing of Bush's war and occupation.

Rumsfeld, as inept as he is, is just one of the architects of the war she supports.

[mtnsnake]

13. I don't disagree that there's that perception of her & why she's doing it

Just the same, I'm delighted she said those harsh words to the bastard's face.

[karynnj]

12. Dean and Kerry called for Rumsfeld to leave in September, 2003

I'm glad Hillary spoke out now, but there is no courage to speaking out now. It took courage to stand against Bush in 2002 when OBL escaped at Tora Bora, as Kerry did and was criticized by the Republicans, media, and his own party. It took courage for some Democrats to vote against the IWR. It took courage to speak against going to war in late 2002 and early 2003, which Gore, Dean and Kerry did.

To speak up in August 2006, when conservatives and even at least one of the neo-cons behind the war have said that it has been a mistake, takes no courage at all. (He was wrong - but Lieberman showed more courage saying that the reasons we are fighting are right.) At this time, what percent of Democrats would disagree with the statement, "Rumsfeld must go" - I doubt it is over 25%. How can agreeing with the overwhelming majority of your party be "courageous."

The reason this is newsworthy is because it is Hillary, who the media crowned as the Democratic leader on Nov 3, 2004. This is noteworthy basically it means that Lieberman may stand alone in the Democratic party in terms of supporting Bush policy - and even he claimed he thought there were problems in how the war was fought. With Lieberman possibly on the way out, it means the Democrats are at least together on the fact that Bush has created a disaster.

The other Democrats can't follow Hillary on this, because they have been there - some as early as nearly 3 years ago - it would have been nice if Hillary or her husband would have used some of her media visibility to call for Rumsfeld to resign before the 2004 over Abu Ghraib or the unsecured armaments that became Ieds. Might have been a nice way to support the candidate. Sorry, Hillary is NOT the leader or role model.

Check these posts to see why others called for this starting in September 2003.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1814715&mesg_id=1814715

[mtnsnake]

14. Kudos to them. I'm simply pointing out that she did it to his face

I think it's deserving of the amount of press it's getting...for that reason alone.

[karynnj]

16. I love that she did that - I was responding to your op

which says that all the Democrats should follow her in this.

Rumsfeld rarely appears in the Senate. The Dean and Kerry comments from September 2003 onward here public. Hillary spoke in the Senate - if the media had covered her as they did Kerry, few would have heard. I respect that she used her megaphone - I regret she didn't use it in 2004 - the unsecured IEDs and Abu Ghraib would have been reason enough. Kerry did say to fire Rumsfeld many many times in 2004.

[H2O Man]

15. She did well.

No question about it.

[napi21]

21. I am proud of her! I watched the hearing yesterday,, and I was very

impressed with her speaking manner. She didn't bark at him, didn't shout, but made her accusations in a very controlled way. There are a lot of people on DU that just don't like Hillary, and to them, she can NEVER do anything good! That's a shame, because she is one of the better Dem politicians in Wash!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

22. I Have No Dog In This Fight But How Hard Is It To Kick A Pinata?

[HamdenRice]

23. The courage to see Joementum next door, take a poll ...

Yeah, Hillary has the courage to notice that next door in Connecticut, the Democratic constituency is about to dump Joementum over his pro-war stance, the courage to do some serious polling no doubt, and then to cautiously back away from her warmongering positions by grilling Rumsfeld. Yeah, that brave, visionary, Hillary Clinton.

Why is she criticizing the war only now? And even now why is she criticizing its implementation and not its basic premise? Why is she personalizing her criticism as a critique of Rumsfeld and not of the entire Bush administration?

Because she is just that brave.

[oc2002]

26. Hillary? Courage? ... realy?

why did she fold on universal health care when Clinton was in office..??

funny?

[mtnsnake]

28. Somehow

that just doesn't change what she did yesterday. Nice try, though!

[porphyrian]

27. Uh...whatever, man. - n/t

[RethugAssKicker]

29. Trend Setter??... Give me a break !

She should have said something long time ago... This was pure poiitical, as she sees her boy Lieberman going down!

[mtnsnake]

30. I think you have your Clintons mixed up

This was pure poiitical, as she sees her boy Lieberman going down!

It was Bill who stumped ground for Lieberman, not Hillary. Hillary said she'd support whomever wins the Democratic primary in CT. If Lamont wins the primary, she'll support him, not Lieberman. But thanks for providing me with another fine example of why Hillary IS a trend setter. ;)