Rebel Flag: "if you see a symbol of hate, your ignorance is to blame"

[cynatnite]

This was on the back of an SUV when I was coming home tonight. Living in the south, the battle flag of the confederacy is flown quite a bit. I always have to laugh because of the history behind it. Anyone who views this flag as anything other than 'heritage' is accused of being ignorant of the history behind it. Least that's how many here see it.

I explained to someone I know that the history of this flag isn't what they claim it to be. The heritage it has is one of slaves and betraying the US. The south had three or four flags. The one that I rarely see was the first to be designed by the Southerners rebelling against the US...the stars and bars. It's rarely ever used...it's mostly the battle flag which was used during fighting.

Not only was the Confederacy around for a short time, the years that followed the KKK came into existence and they carried this flag regularly. As more time passed, the battle flag was carted around by mostly white supremacists and others of their ilk who claimed their 'heritage'.

I did ask one question of him: If this flag was purely about heritage, why aren't Southern blacks flying it?

He attempted to say some do, but had nothing to back up his claim. It seems to me people who insist on touting this flag know little of the real history behind it.

[TygrBright]

1. And "If You Get Laughed At, You're Bad Grammar Is To Blame" n/t

[Marr]

2. So... it's a symbol of treason, not racism...? Ok.

That's alot better.

[cynatnite]

6. I googled for the bumper sticker...

and much of what I found was flat out nauseating. One sticker said 'fighting terrorists since 1861'. So, I agree...treason is a much better word.

[Sherman A1]

7. Agreed

[mitchtv]

19. I always thought so

a symbol of rebellion and treason, To many it says defiance.

[JuniperLea]

3. There are a few generations who think of it only in terms of

The Dukes of Hazard... I thought it was bogus when they used it too.

If you don't see this flag as a symbol of hate, your ignorance is showing...

[Codeblue]

4. I find it funny when people fly that thing

The reason being that they are all the same people who get in our faces about being "traitors" and "terrorists." So while they sit there harping about how great America is, they're flying a flag from a country that was in direct opposition to the U.S.

Always makes me laugh at them.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. Heritage.

[Lindacooks]

8. That's an excellent point about Southern African-Americans.

And, the Confederate flag flown now was resurrected in the 1950s during the height of the black/white crisis in America. It wasn't seen often between the War and that time.

Just a coincidence? I think not.

[Ian David]

9. That's why I came up with THIS design...

http://www.cafepress.com/southdiversity

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

10. Hey, That's Awesome! Good For You Bro.

[Ian David]

14. I got tired of hearing, "It's about PRIDE, not Prejudice..."

So, I made a version that actually SAYS that to see if anyone would buy it.

Also, CafePress won't let me sell the flag below, because one of the components of the design is copyrighted:

[lectrobyte]

21. That's a great design, I'd love to have one, too bad you can't sell

it. Maybe if you replace the copyrighted part with something close but not copyrighted?

[flaminbats]

23. like on some new Boot Perdue stickers..

this is something that can unite all the voters in Georgia who want this Governor gone! :thumbsup:

[Ian David]

25. What I'd like to do is replace the stars on the flag...

with various religious and ethnic symbols... including the pink triangle.

[lonestarnot]

11. Dat's a good one IanB!

[patdem]

12. Do you have a rainbow swastika too?

Hey...I am sure them rebels would never hurt a gay..anymore than a nazi would harm one..ya think?

[Ian David]

13. You don't think it will make Freeper heads explode?

How about this OTHER design I made?


http://www.cafepress.com/southdiversity

[patdem]

16. LMFAO..I think they would BOTH make freepers heads EXPLODE!

we have more neo-nazis here than any place in Europe...they ban them..we call it free speach...oh well..

You are very talented...Sorry for this CRAP happening between Israel and Lebanon..

[Ian David]

15. Rainbow Swastika... for India, maybe? Not for America. n/t

[aikoaiko]

17. Southern Blacks and the Rebel Flag

http://www.timesanddemocrat.com/articles/2004/04/07/news/news1.txt

Self-proclaimed 'black Confederate' walking 'path to peace, racial reconciliation'

By RICHARD WALKER, T&D Staff Writer and DONNA L. HOLMAN, T&D Correspondent
Wednesday, April 07, 2004

Carrying his Confederate flag, one North Carolinian who passed through Orangeburg Tuesday says he has a vision that some day all Americans will be enlightened to the truth.

Having made marches across many sections of the country previously during his "March to the Sea" that has a dual purpose, H.K. Edgerton said he is proud to be a black Confederate American.

I'm a yankee transplant to the deep south and in my short time here it seems as if there is a very complicated relationship with southern blacks and the confederacy. While you don't hear any great longing for the confederacy, there is not the same replusion that one sees with Jews of Eastern European ancestry and the swastika. It seems like many southern blacks could care less if someone flies a confederate flag or have hate in their hearts, but they do care about practices and behaviors that discriminate against them.

[flaminbats]

18. have you seen those "Boot Perdue" stickers in Georgia?

Perdue needs to be kicked out of office, but not for changing the Georgia flag again! It amazes me how many southerners fly the Confederate battle flag, but don't even recognize the Stars and Bars as the flag which proceeded it. Perhaps not enough southern blacks are offended by it!

but hopefully both races in Georgia can unite behind defeating Perdue for a common purpose. As Martin Luther King Jr. said "Love is the only force capable of transforming an enemy into friend."

[Nevernose]

20. Because we, as a society, have simplistic views of history

Everything is, if you'll forgive the pun, black and white.

The Civil War was, in part, about slavery, but also had a lot to do with rich white men in the North arguing over financing with rich white men in the South. Maybe even more. In fact, if you've read Howard Zinn (there's a DUer who hasn't? shame!), then you'll know that at least some left-wing historians agree with this view.

Perhaps one can be proud of one's ancestor's and what they fought for, even though one does not hold their views? Personally, I can respect someone who is willing to fight to the bitter end for what they believe in, even if I don't agree with them. If one of those people was my great-grandfather, I might even take it a step farther.

Germany bad, United States good. While Hitler was bad, without a doubt, perhaps the US and Western Europe had a role in his rise with the Trety of Versailles?

Maybe the USSR and Russian totalitarianism was wicked, and perhaps we had a hand in pushing them towards an authoritarian state?

Of course, I'm still not putting a confederate bttle flag on my car or house or whatever. While all the males of my great-great generation of ancestors did fight for the South (I've been to a couple of the battlefields, and am hoping to visit more soon), and while I'm proud that they fought for what they belived in -- and not a slave owner among them I might add, I'm also cognizant of the fact that the "Dixie" symbol offends many for good reason.

I also know that while my ancestors fought in the Civil War, I'm a hell of a lot more proud knowing that my parents marched with Martin Luther King.

[patdem]

22. I would say you are the HOPE FOR THE MIDDLE EAST...

From fighting for the south and its secession to marching with Martin Luther King, Jr.....in a few short generations...maybe the Middle East peace has a chance?

[Nevernose]

24. The South + Secession are only bad if you have a black + white view

As I said, my ancestors didn't own any slaves. In fact, some of them might have been slaves, white ones, before the rich slave owners decided to make slavery a racial issue (in order to prevent slave revolts) prior to 1750 or so. The racial component to slavery came much later to America than slavery itself. And I'm not talking about what they taught in high school, "indentured servitude," I mean SLAVES.

Malcolm X had a lot more to say about the racists in the North than he did about the South. The federal government came out a few years ago claiming that there was a lot more segregation in the North than there was in the South. General Sherman ordered that all slaves found outside their master's proporty were to be hung. Lincoln issued a non-binding proclomation ordering that SOME of the slaves be freed, at least in non-border states. He went on to say that, officially, slavery was irrelevant, although important personally to him. Popular polls conducted at the time showed that most Northerners (about 75%) didn't care about slavery one way or the other, or were content to let it stand. When the South finally fell to Grant, there was a law in the South on the process of being passed freeing all the slaves; no such law was even being considered in the North. The highest decorated soldier at the first Bull Run/Manassas was a confederate, black, freed slave.

History just isn't SIMPLE, no matter how much we'd like it to be.

My father and my great-great grandfather (and his father in the Texas revolution, and his father in the revolution against England, and his grand-father against the English), fought for what they believed in: freedom.

My parents fought for freedom in the 1960s, albeit a different kind of freedom than what was fought for in the 1860s.

The details change over time, but the principals remain the same.

And while my family certainly does not have dixie-flags on our cars, I have seen them on cars in California, Wisconsin, and New York.

As for the Middle East? Those Mother F@@@ckers are just plain crazy, and barring a multinational military intervention, I've just plain given up hope. Maybe in another 50 years or so, peopl will start to wake up and say "BUT THAT'S ALL ANCIENT HISTORY!"

[bunkerbuster1]

26. Defensive much?

What an asshole. Of course, living as I do in Georgia, I see stupid shit bumper stickers like that all the time.

This is ground zero for whiny-ass titty baby white men who feel oppressed by the imaginary political correctness police. These morons make Neal Boortz a multimillionaire, and think that John Linder's "Fair Tax" will make them all richer.

anyway, kudos to you for trying to make one of the rednecks see sense. I've been there, still try to do that, but it's hellishly difficult, since their defensiveness and paranoia are rooted in generations of fables about the Civil War and Reconstruction era.