Noam Chomsky - Murder of a Nation - What the media isn't telling you.

[Hoping4Change]

about Israel-Lebanon (7 minute film)


http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14081.htm

[Swamp Rat]

1. k&r

[QuestionAll...]

2. transcript available?

[GAPeace]

3. It's available at www.democracynow.org

The video is from Democracy Now! and is very telling about how rampantly biased the story we're getting is.

[QuestionAll...]

5. thanks! usually net vid does not like my comp. nt

[charlie]

4. Transcript

Scroll down a page for the start.

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/14/146258

[QuestionAll...]

8. thanks, here's a bit.

DAN GILLERMAN: As we sit here during these very difficult days, I urge you and I urge my colleagues to ask yourselves this question: What would do you if your countries found themselves under such attacks, if your neighbors infiltrated your borders to kidnap your people, and if hundreds of rockets were launched at your towns and villages? Would you just sit back and take it, or would you do exactly what Israel is doing at this very minute?

AMY GOODMAN: That was Dan Gillerman, the Israeli ambassador to the United Nations. Noam Chomsky, your response?

NOAM CHOMSKY: He was referring to Lebanon, rather than Gaza.

AMY GOODMAN: He was.

NOAM CHOMSKY: Yeah. Well, he's correct that hundreds of rockets have been fired, and naturally that has to be stopped. But he didn't mention, or maybe at least in this comment, that the rockets were fired after the heavy Israeli attacks against Lebanon, which killed -- well, latest reports, maybe 60 or so people and destroyed a lot of infrastructure. As always, things have precedence, and you have to decide which was the inciting event. In my view, the inciting event in the present case, events, are those that I mentioned -- the constant intense repression; plenty of abductions; plenty of atrocities in Gaza; the steady takeover of the West Bank, which, in effect, if it continues, is just the murder of a nation, the end of Palestine; the abduction on June 24 of the two Gaza civilians; and then the reaction to the abduction of Corporal Shalit. And there's a difference, incidentally, between abduction of civilians and abduction of soldiers. Even international humanitarian law makes that distinction.

AMY GOODMAN: Can you talk about what that distinction is?

NOAM CHOMSKY: If there's a conflict going on, aside physical war, not in a military conflict going on, abduction -- if soldiers are captured, they are to be treated humanely. But it is not a crime at the level of capture of civilians and bringing them across the border into your own country. That's a serious crime. And that's the one that's not reported. And, in fact, remember that -- I mean, I don’t have to tell you that there are constant attacks going on in Gaza, which is basically a prison, huge prison, under constant attack all the time: economic strangulation, military attack, assassinations, and so on. In comparison with that, abduction of a soldier, whatever one thinks about it, doesn't rank high in the scale of atrocities.

[Karmadillo]

33. "You will live like dogs." I'd pay at least a little bit to

hear a reporter on CNN repeat that one. Nice, extremely depressing article. Chomsky is a treasure. Thanks for posting.

[Lerkfish]

6. very enlightening. I'd be curious of the reaction on it from

our zionist members.

[leftchick]

12. predictable denial

no doubt.

[jonnyblitz]

17. Alan Dershowitz and David Horowitz have done a good job of

smearing Chomsky and that is where the DU Pro-Israel war crowd seem to get their info from. I think they call him a holocaust denier or self-hating or something. I guess fellow jews aren't even safe from the slurs.

[Tom Joad]

24. Horowitz and Dershy are self-hating humans.

[jonnyblitz]

70. ....

[Joe Fields]

18. My reaction? Fuck Chomsky. With all due respect.

Some people around here act as though Chomsky is god, and hang on every word he says. But this is a free country. Strike that last part.

[jonnyblitz]

19. speakin of...

:rofl:

[JackNewtown]

23. Wow, they won't even try to refute what Chomsky said nt

[Joe Fields]

51. The man only asked for a reaction, not an opinion.

I could be wrong, but I doubt if many here are interested in my opinion, except to use it as fodder for another snark attack.

[countryjake]

64. Wrong! Hearing your thoughts is educational for those of us seeking Peace.

[High Plains]

22. Very enlightening post, but only about the poster.

[Tom Joad]

25. Blown away by your keen intellectual analysis. Thanks for sharing.

[Joe Fields]

49. Don't mention it.

[papau]

26. I like Chomsky except where he goes nuts and lies - as in Israel

When I "knew" him at Tech (I never knew him socially or professionally - but as a down the hall fellow he was the subject of discussion) it was fun to hear him rant on Israel, then try to deny that he had lied in the rant so as to advance his point of view. He was a bit famous for the technique.

[Karmadillo]

28. I remember the time when he ate the Registrar's dog and then

claimed he had been born with a paw stuck in his throat. He's so damn evil.

[Moochy]

30. Chomksy ate my baby dingo! n/t

[papau]

32. Sigh - a Tech wannabe? or am I not getting your joke - check out

with others that spent a few years there if you disbelieve.

[Karmadillo]

35. Wannabe!?!? I still have the teeth marks from when Chomsky tried

to chew off my foot. There's nobody more real than me. The guy is a terror. "Flesh!" he cried. "Must have it now!" If the Registrar's dog hadn't wandered by at that very moment, I doubt I'd be here to tell the story of his infinite evilness.

[papau]

37. Sorry - your finely developed sense of humor is greatly appreciated but

I'm afraid that as a put down or as humor the theme of your post needs some work.

Perhaps you need help learning how to research a topic, or perhaps you need a self esteem build-up.

In any case, I wish you luck.

[Karmadillo]

38. Sure. Be nice to me in the subject line, then

turn on me down below. If Chomsky had been chewing on your foot for 30, 40 minutes, you'd be nicer to people. Not to mention all the blood he spewed when he ate the dog. Gross, man. Anyway, best of luck fellow Tech dude.

[leveymg]

42. What, precisely, is Chomsky lieing about? Be precise, after all

you're a Techie. Right? :eyes:

[papau]

71. Tech exams award "partial credit" -the fact of partial truth is in post 66

:eyes:

The left is not critical of Chomsky, so the below URLs are RW sites. But the citations speak for themselves - and the weakness - as to fact and rebuttal - not as to writing skill and performance art - of the Chomsky selected single point to rebut (saying the rest are equally silly) - that weakness is obvious - in my opinion. Chomsky equals clever (he always sound like he is "right" until you check things out) plus bluster plus partial truth lies plus lies by implication plus outright lies - in my opinion

The lies
http://jim.com/chomsdis.htm
The citations proving the lies
http://jim.com/ChomskyLiesCites/Cites.htm
A Chomsky reply that ignores 99% and does not answer what it pretends to answer - just Bluster and more BS without citations
http://jim.com/ChomskyReply.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But here we have some controversy- from the right we have

The Top 100 Chomsky Lies -Paul Bogdanor
Paul Bogdanor is co-editor of The Jewish Divide Over Israel: Accusers and Defenders - and is in FrontPage - a RW publication - like you expected criticism of Chomsky from the left?
http://www.paulbogdanor.com/100chomskylies.pdf
HTML -The Top 100 Chomsky Lies
http://72.14.209.104/search?q=cache:Gw2wiZj0avgJ:www.paulbogdanor.com/100chomskylies.pdf+Chomsky+lies&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=4

which is "answered" by a fellow from the left
http://www.geocities.com/soho/9879/jamesd.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
and this is only 6 months old - but beware - again it is from the RW!
More Noam Chomsky Lies
http://tim.2wgroup.com/blog/archives/001086.html
referring Chomsky repeating old lies in a debate at Harvard with
Alan Dershowitz and written by Mitch Webber,a third-year student at Harvard Law School, and sent to the Crimson without the knowledge or consent of Dershowitz

http://powerlineblog.com/archives/012448.php

[JackNewtown]

75. No reply to that question

I wonder why?

[papau]

77. Post 71 lists top 100 Chomsky "specfic " lies n/t

[jonnyblitz]

29. he doesn't lie about Israel. nt

[papau]

34. Give a quote and I'll give you a URL that indicates he lies about Israel

concerning the item about Israel in the quote.

This could be a fun game! :-)

[U4ikLefty]

36. Its all a game to you. n/t

[jonnyblitz]

41. eh, I am not in the mood for RW propaganda. nt

[sistersofmercy]

45. You made the statement you provide a quote and refute it.

Yes this could be fun but my guess is you won't. You would rather make a statement about someone's character and not back it up with any real substance.

[ronnie624]

74. The poster's links are filled with right-wing garbage. n/t

[papau]

79. Look at the citations given - and ignore the fact that the left does not

on the web criticism of Chomsky - so only RW web sites even discuss the books that have been written about Chomsky's skill at telling lies about Israel and the Mid-East- and the lists of documented lies in those books.

[countryjake]

56. Chomsky - "the abduction on June 24 of the two Gaza civilians"

Where's the URL that disproves this statement?

"In my view, the inciting event in the present case, events, are those that I mentioned -- the constant intense repression; plenty of abductions; plenty of atrocities in Gaza; the steady takeover of the West Bank, which, in effect, if it continues, is just the murder of a nation, the end of Palestine; the abduction on June 24 of the two Gaza civilians; and then the reaction to the abduction of Corporal Shalit. And there's a difference, incidentally, between abduction of civilians and abduction of soldiers. Even international humanitarian law makes that distinction."

[papau]

66. The LA Times report exposes this as the usual clever Chomsky "truth"

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/la-fg-gaza25jun25,1,1870951.story

On June 24 Israeli commandos entered the Gaza Strip and captured two Palestinians (but was it a capture or was it an arrest of an enemy combatant as they prepared to enter your country to cause terror? - but for the purpose of counting lies I'd call this a spin preference and not a lie)

- the first Chomsky lie is that he called them "a Doctor and his brother" - but they really were the brothers Osama Muamar, 31, a medical student who returned from Sudan the prior week, and Mustafa, a 20-year-old university student in Gaza - not a big lie, but interesting since all the media reports got Osama's education level correct - but perhaps Chomsky was trying to avoid telling folks of the Osama name so he pretends he does not have this detail


and the second, and important, Chomsky lie is not mentioning that they were in the "final stages of planning a large-scale terror attack" in coming days. And indeed Chomsky could have added and should have added, if he told the above - that the terrorists deny they were planning terror and we have only the Israeli statement. But leaving it out so as to convey an impression is to lie.

So another partial truth lie - and clever Chomsky usualy tells partial truth lies rather that total falsehoods.

[countryjake]

62. Still looking for that URL?

Can you disprove that the IDF raided a home in the Gaza & kidnapped two civilians on June 24th?

[papau]

67. The lie is in the "partial truth" of that statement and the pretense of a

Doctor being involved.

[sistersofmercy]

44. You made the statement you provide the evidence

Let's have it! Quote Chomsky and refute the statement. Otherwise this is just a character smear to attempt to discredit. So what are the lies in the interview posted.

[countryjake]

55. This is no lie...Israel makes first Gaza arrest raid since pullout

http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=47183

Sunday, June 25, 2006

GAZA - Reuters

~snip~

Israeli forces detained two Palestinians, who the army said were Hamas militants, in the Gaza Strip on Saturday in what marked the first such arrest raid in the territory since Israel pulled out of Gaza a year ago.

Ali Muamar, a Palestinian known to local residents as a Hamas loyalist, said he was asleep on a bed outside his home near Rafah refugee camp in south Gaza when he woke up and saw uniformed Israeli soldiers scaling down the walls of his courtyard with ladders.

"They attacked me all of a sudden," he said. "They blindfolded and handcuffed me and started beating me up with the butts of their rifles and kicking me with their boots."

Muamar said the soldiers raided his home, took his computer and left after less than an hour with his sons -- Osama, a doctor who had arrived in Gaza last month from Sudan, and Mustafa, a student of Islamic law.

[papau]

68. LA Times write up reveals a few details/corrections

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/la-fg-gaza25jun25,1,1870951.story

the LA Times registration process really won't hurt and you can LIE!

[countryjake]

69. Corrections?

The story as reported thru the month of July has been describing the kidnapped brother as a "doctor"...so now the IDF "corrections" conveniently are meant to lessen the fact that their raid (and arrest of two civilians) was conducted before the Palestinian capture of the Israeli soldier occurred?

And who started this again?

[papau]

72. Date of LA Times is June n/t

n/t

[countryjake]

73. So are you saying that the two Palestinian prisoners, civilians,

taken in the Israeli raid (June 24) the day before the "Palestinian incursion" (June 25) which resulted in the capture of an Israeli soldier, mean nothing? That they may have no bearing on the horror that is reigning supreme in the Gaza, as we type?

Or are you nit-picking about "med-student" or "doctor"...why does that understandable confusion make any difference, when Israel has said all along that they are devastating the Gaza strip because their soldier was captured?

Hell, the original report that I heard back then on the tube described the two civilians who were taken prisoner as "a Hamas doctor and his son". Googled it that day and found this:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=105930

Don't you think it's reaching a bit to call foul on something that trivial, when in fact the US media has barely uttered one word about those two Palestinians who were kidnapped, as they continue to shout from the rooftops that "all Israel wants is the return of their captured soldier"?

I could ask how the IDF has any right to "arrest" any people in the Gaza, at all, but that's nitpicking, too, so I won't. But I do think that when it comes to releasing "prisoners", given the record of actual exchanges that have ever proven fruitful for the Palestinian people, I'd say that young Israeli soldier was taken precisely in the hope that this time, maybe he'd be enough leverage to secure the release of Osama and Mustafa Muamar, whatever their occupations may be.

[papau]

78. yes - the 6/24 event means"nothing"-did not lead to 6/25, 6/25 was planned

per Hamas without being "motivated by 6/24".

Chomsky as usual is making up crap - granted as always - plausible crap.

But you are correct in your statement that there is a record of actual exchanges - just not with Hamas as the actual government of the West Bank/Gaza - and your conjecture that the young Israeli soldier was taken precisely in the hope of such an exchange is reasonable and is what I believe also-

it is just that the facts about the event are that the Osama and Mustafa Muamar arrest was not even known to Hamas because it had not yet happened when it was being planned - but my opinion is formed from the reports from the area which I deem credible - and the lack of a Muamar reference the day of and the day after the "capture" of Israeli soldier in any report I saw seems to confirm other reports as to the planning cycle.

[Karmadillo]

31. Isn't that supposed to be "Fuck Chompsky?" I thought you guys

had certain rules you had to follow. Otherwise, everybody thinks you're an anarchist or something.

[AliceWonderland]

53. Now that's a worthy argument!

Well reasoned and well presented! Compelling and rational. Bravo!

[bvar22]

60. Did you read or view the interview?

Will you dispute any of his statements or timelines?
or
Will you just jump on the Swiftboat?

[The_Warmth]

7. .

Nice find.

[jonnyblitz]

9. k&r

[QuestionAll...]

10. Gillerman's intelligence just shines, like it did on Lou Dobbs yesterday..

what a most dispicable rotish p.o.s.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1802042

GILLERMAN: The solution is exactly what we're trying to do. We're trying to change the pattern of behavior and the culture of hatred. We're trying to do away with the terrorist organization which has taken over Lebanon, held it hostage for so many years and used it as a terror base against Israel. And that terror organization is just the proxy for Iran and Syria, who actually trying to destabilize not only our region but the whole world. So the solution is to eliminate terror, to fight Islamic fundamentalism. And we are doing it in our region, and I think that's the reason that many countries in the world, including some of our moderate neighbors, feel that we're fighting this war not just for ourselves but for the whole world. We're paying the price, but we're doing their work for them.

DOBBS: You're paying a price, the Lebanese are paying a price, Hezbollah is paying the price, and they're the ones to whom you've presented the bill. But the fact is, this campaign differs from no other. Trying to root out a culture of hatred -- there are those, as you well know, Ambassador, who say that you're creating more volunteers for Hezbollah by the civilian casualties that in Southern Lebanon.

The fact is, that the security of Israel seems just as jeopardized as at any other time in what has been a woeful, violent history. Is there not a way in which Israel, the United States, the principal parties, if you will, the six, can come together and say there should be a Palestinian state, that we should have security for Israel, and get it done rather than this unending violence and this endless talk?

GILLERMAN: Well, this way has been presented and offered to the Palestinians. It was actually given to them very generously by President Clinton and Prime Minister Barak. They could have by now had their own state, run their own affairs, cared about the welfare and standard of living of their own people.

DOBBS: I wish I could agree with you, Ambassador, that the Palestinians are the only fools in this terrible tragic, endless cycle of violence, but we're all complicit and we're all part of the violence because we haven't been either wise enough or intelligent enough or engaged enough or resolute enough to end this -- 58 years.
Einstein said the "definition of insanity is repeating the same actions and expecting a different result." Is there not a way here in which people could break through and say, we're going to come to terms with reality and make a better reality?

GILLERMAN: You know, Israel has had five prime ministers who offered the Palestinians their own state, who offered them practically all of the land. You know that we ...

DOBBS: Mr. Ambassador, I will concede that the Palestinians have been fools.

GILLERMAN: Palestinians have not missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

(CROSSTALK)

DOBBS: I understand. Let's call the Palestinians fools.

GILLERMAN: OK, they're not fools.

DOBBS: Let's call the Israelis the greatest guys, but what I'm saying to you is, in this I think we're all fools because the Palestinians, the Arabs, even Iran, all of us are real victims and potential victims of this. Why cannot intelligent people come to terms, led in part -- and I put great responsibility personally in this, my only view -- that the United States would tolerate this and not seek resolution. Surely there's a way.

GILLERMAN: There's a way. There's a very quick way. I mean, all Israel wants is peace. All our neighbors want, what the Palestinians want and the Hezbollah want is to destroy us. If they stop terror, if they stop hating us, if they start loving their children more than they hate us, if they stop ...

DOBBS: That's what Golda Meir once said.

GILLERMAN: That's Golda Meir, that's right. And if they stop this cultural hatred and incitement in the textbooks, raising more and more children who want to be suicide bombers, there would be peace overnight.

DOBBS: Ambassador Gillerman, we thank you for being here.

GILLERMAN: Thank you very much.

DOBBS: You don't leave me any more hopeful, but thank you.

[JackNewtown]

13. "all Israel wants is peace"

That is what we are told by Israel's representatives, neocons, and Israel's apologists. How can a country that does what Israel does to the Palestinians seriously claim to want peace? How can so many buy that myth, including many progressives?

[QuestionAll...]

15. same kinda flavor of bush wanting freedom for everyone.

good cripes, and people fall for it.

[JackNewtown]

16. Very, very few rank-and-file progressive do on Iraq, though

Yet on Israel there is no shortage of progressives who buy that.

[papau]

27. If Palestinians toss all weapons there is peace - if Israel tosses they're

dead.

[Miss Chybil]

40. What should they toss, their rocks? nt

[leesa]

47. But it's funny how it's the Palestinians who are dying en masse.

I guess the Palestinians are killing themselves.

[PATRICK]

43. Peace is not enough

much less the full definition for themselves and the region. How can you have peace if a few miles away the neighbors are warring?

What they fear as part of the general escalation of fear living unwelcome and opposed, is their size, their small range of self protection etc. But what it begins to boil down to is is that looking at lebanon they see themselves. A Jewish minority someday just as the Christians are a minority- only they have become intolerable to the Muslims by now because of many dilemmas and contradictions, every relationship having a Catch-22 clause. It is much more than a sullen truce or wielding nuclear annihilation. Part of them is driven by violence to do what they fear. Drive out and destroy all the "others". You become the enemy, you become your own enemy. The dream passes without benefit of a transitional "peace" period to nightmare. Reality is avoided at the point of a gun. Worrying about fault or intentions at some point becomes irrelevant to the counter-productive approach to mere survival.

The peace talks merely pointed toward the right direction. To solve the ME means the whole world must sit down and discuss with compassion and courage ALL the truly human issues- and yes, who lives on what land and how. Simple, dragged out, ups and down, discarded and proved by the absolute ABSOLUTE misery and death of other solutions(evasions, absurdities). Carter was right that this is what the vast majority want in their hearts. That is the miracle of modern times that the natural sway of armies and disaster does not have to be the "natural" rule of civilization. We don't have to kill each other and in fact most people do not want to kill. Stopping those who do and constraining those who LIKE the evil is merely the beginning of just living together.

People caught up in the passion of the moment don't like such advice, especially from those outside who have not and maybe will not really stand by those fine sentiments. They lash out like marital dispute interrupted by the police. But who represents what is good and right? The annihilators or the peacemakers? The shame is not mostly upon the small nations involved but upon the world community that has failed them as well. To "let them kill each other" proclaims the poison as the rule of law for all of us.

[Hoping4Change]

46. "Reality is avoided at the point of a gun." That is brilliant.

What a great post - it should be a separate thread. And the last paragragh is spot on.


"People caught up in the passion of the moment don't like such advice, especially from those outside who have not and maybe will not really stand by those fine sentiments. They lash out like marital dispute interrupted by the police. But who represents what is good and right? The annihilators or the peacemakers? The shame is not mostly upon the small nations involved but upon the world community that has failed them as well. To "let them kill each other" proclaims the poison as the rule of law for all of us."



:applause:

[PATRICK]

50. Not only brilliant

but riddled with typos. I need some sleep after a ten hour work night. That is why these brief shots in the darkness. Last flashes of a sinking brain.

[countryjake]

59. Maybe because what Israel does is never reported here...

The thing about that first kidnapping done by Israel has never been mentioned in USA medianews...I've been searching and have only found reports on the June 24th raid and taking of two civilians covered in foreign media...absolutely nothing in American press on that incident.

This from ReutersUK:

http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=worldNews&storyID=2006-06-24T094341Z_01_FOR365025_RTRUKOC_0_UK-MIDEAST.xml

Israel makes Gaza arrest raid
Sat Jun 24, 2006 10:43 AM BST

GAZA (Reuters) - Israeli forces detained two Palestinians, who the army said were Hamas militants, in the Gaza Strip on Saturday in what marked the first such arrest raid in the territory since Israel pulled out of Gaza a year ago.

[leftchick]

20. he is a total piece of human waste

much like his good friend and neo-con freak John Bolton.

:puke:

[UndertheOcean]

11. k&r

n/t

[malaise]

14. Thanks n/t

[jonnyblitz]

21. ...

:kick:

[breakaleg]

39. does anyone know anything further about these 2 civilians?

who they were, or why they were kidnaped?

[dogday]

48. That was exactly what I was thinking

I would like to know more about that....

[countryjake]

54. Here's the story from the day after it happened...

Israel makes first Gaza arrest raid since pullout
http://www.turkishdailynews.com.tr/article.php?enewsid=47183

Sunday, June 25, 2006

GAZA - Reuters

~snip~

Israeli forces detained two Palestinians, who the army said were Hamas militants, in the Gaza Strip on Saturday in what marked the first such arrest raid in the territory since Israel pulled out of Gaza a year ago.

Ali Muamar, a Palestinian known to local residents as a Hamas loyalist, said he was asleep on a bed outside his home near Rafah refugee camp in south Gaza when he woke up and saw uniformed Israeli soldiers scaling down the walls of his courtyard with ladders.

"They attacked me all of a sudden," he said. "They blindfolded and handcuffed me and started beating me up with the butts of their rifles and kicking me with their boots."

Muamar said the soldiers raided his home, took his computer and left after less than an hour with his sons -- Osama, a doctor who had arrived in Gaza last month from Sudan, and Mustafa, a student of Islamic law.

[mike_c]

52. wow-- K&R-- Noam Chomsky nails it again....

That is an excellent video.

[countryjake]

57. K&R

[oc2002]

58. everyone should see that. should be on the front page.

nice to listen to a man that has been following events there for the last 40 years put things in proper perspective.

[countryjake]

61. An Israeli's comments...

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=733427

~snip~

The legitimate basis for the IDF's operation was stripped away the moment it began. It's no accident that nobody mentions the day before the attack on the Kerem Shalom fort, when the IDF kidnapped two civilians, a doctor and his brother, from their home in Gaza. The difference between us and them? We kidnapped civilians and they captured a soldier, we are a state and they are a terror organization. How ridiculously pathetic Amos Gilad sounds when he says that the capture of Shalit was "illegitimate and illegal," unlike when the IDF grabs civilians from their homes. How can a senior official in the defense ministry claim that "the head of the snake" is in Damascus, when the IDF uses the exact same methods?

True, when the IDF and Shin Bet grab civilians from their homes - and they do so often - it is not to murder them later. But sometimes they are killed on the doorsteps of their homes, although it is not necessary, and sometimes they are grabbed to serve as "bargaining chips," like in Lebanon and now, with the Palestinian legislators. What an uproar there would be if the Palestinians had grabbed half the members of the Israeli government. How would we label them?

[Hoping4Change]

63. Good find. Its sounds like they heard Chomsky's interview.

[countryjake]

65. That's written by Gideon Levy on July 3...

I'd imagine it's the other way around, that Noam Chomsky took a clue or two from Mr. Levy.

[Hoping4Change]

80. It sounds like your right on that. Thank you posting this info.

Anyone like Mr Levy has my deepest respect for trying to get at the truth in times like these when it would be so easy to jump on the my country right or wrong bandwagon.

[upi402]

76. Heard him on Democracy Now!

He had a deep understanding of that spider web.