Seattle shooter: "These are Jews, and I'm tired of getting pushed around"

[sabra]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/08/mosque_shooters.html

Shooter's Motive: In His Own Words

"These are Jews, and I'm tired of getting pushed around," Naveed Afzal Haq allegedly told a Seattle police dispatcher Friday when the pregnant woman he had shot handed him the cellphone she had used to call 911. "I have a gun to her head. This is a hostage situation. I have a hostage."

...

"I'm not upset at people. I'm upset at your foreign policy," Haq told police, after having shot and killed Waechtner. "Our people getting pushed around by the situation in the Middle East."

According to a statement of probable cause obtained in full by ABC News, Haq entered the building armed with two heavy caliber handguns -- a .45 cal. automatic and a .40 cal automatic. The four survivors of his shooting spree suffered wounds to the abdomen, groin and limbs.

Before he started blazing away, Haq made angry and offensive statement about Jews, police said.

When the shooting stopped and Haq's anger partially dissipated, Haq took the cellphone from the hand of his pregnant victim, Dayna Klein, and told police, "I just want us to get out of Iraq. I'm an American too, but I want our people out of Iraq." He told police he had shot the pregnant woman once, "I shot her once, I shot her in the arm."

...

The FBI labeled the shootings a "hate crime" based on what the gunman told police in the 911 call.

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. Mel Gibson is in Seattle?

[Warren DeMontague]

2. C'mon. We ALL KNOW that Anti Semitism is "just a myth"

rinse. repeat. :eyes:

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cracksquirrel]

6. good sweet god

What the HELL is wrong with you? This is about a shooting in Seatle. How is this appologizing for Israel again? Please tell me that was sarcasm. Seriously, as dismaying as reading that was, if you tell me that that was sarcasm, I'll take you out for icecream and a hot stone massage.

[BillZBubb]

12. "anti-Semitism is just a myth" was the post I responded to.

Who said it's just a myth? Why was that comment made? It was a strawman argument and is tied to the whole pro-Israeli propaganda that has been showing up lately. If you don't understand that, you haven't been keeping up.

[cracksquirrel]

15. Oh I've been keeping up

And actively spreading the pro-Israel propaganda. For you see, they put this chip in my brain that makes me do things... terrible things.

[Warren DeMontague]

21. You got my number, dude.

I'm TOTALLY on the Likud/AIPAC payroll.

Calling for an immediate ceasefire for the past several days has been my cover. Shh!

[cracksquirrel]

28. Really!?

You're on the Likud/AIPAC/Zioneofundieimperiacon (tm) payroll too? Funny, I've never seen you at any of the meetings... probably because I was too involved in consuming the blood of gentiles!

[Behind the Aegis]

30. LMAO!!!

:rofl:

But do you know the secret handshake?! :)

[cracksquirrel]

37. Give me a hint...

Does it involve two slaps the the buttcheeks, a wink, and a headbut?

[Warren DeMontague]

38. Here it is:

[cracksquirrel]

45. Indeed

And the Marx brothers were well-known Zionist instigators. "Duck Soup" was an obvious ploy to desensitize the world to the crimes of the Zionist conspiracy.

[Warren DeMontague]

35. The nordic looking, blue-eyed hippie thing usually confuses people.

shhh!

[SPKrazy]

111. The Whole Pro Israeli Propaganda

or maybe just some people don't agree with you?

no need to get conspiratorial

[Warren DeMontague]

8. Hah?

I'll say it again. Hah?

Oh, and I'm an "Israeli propagandist". That's a laugh. I thought criticizing the government of Israel (something I've done repeatedly in the past week, TYVM) and anti-semitism had nothing to do with each other.

Which is it?

[BillZBubb]

13. Who said anti-Semitism doesn't exist?

That is a strawman and it's bullshit.

[Warren DeMontague]

17. You're right it's bullshit.

And I've seen the sentiment expressed repeatedly around here, of late.

[BillZBubb]

58. Please cite examples. I have not seen it once said.

It's a strawman if and only if you can show that what you claimed is a widespread view. You say "repeatedly". I honestly have not seen one message stating anti-Semitism doesn't exist. Or even that anti-Semitism isn't a problem. If I had, I would have responded to that post.

[cracksquirrel]

19. *barf*

What is disconcerting is not those that say anti-semitism doesn't exist, but those who say that it can be excused or that anti-semitism is somehow the collective sin of the Jews coming back to bite us in the ass.

[BillZBubb]

50. Again, who said that? You guys add one straw man on another.

Do you understand what you are doing?

[cracksquirrel]

55. Yes.

I understand completely. And you may not have noticed it, but while you were busy looking at that straw man over there, I totally spoiled your precious bodily fluids! Oooh, punkd!

[BillZBubb]

63. Cite examples or admit you are being argumentative!

Give me a thread where what you claim has been said. Just one! I bet you can't. I think you are making bullshit up as you go along.

[T Town Jake]

105. Why should anyone play that silly "cite examples" game with you?

...pick about any thread in G.D. right now that has more than fifty post as regards the situation in Lebanon and those sentiments are being expressed by a tiny minority of posters who have serious issues with Israel's very existence. Not all the time, and not always in the same manner, but they are there for even any semi-literate to see.

Folks like you tend to play that "cite examples" game and, when someone takes you up on it, inevitably respond by saying "well that's just one small post. Show me another," and so on ad naseum. When multiple examples are shown, posters who play the "cite examples" game inevitably flee the thread.

Go find your own "examples": it won't be difficult.

[BillZBubb]

116. The classic loser's reply--you've got nothing.

It's not a game. If you make broad statements, be prepared to back them up or admit you can't.

I have read thousands of posts and have not found any noticable number of posts of the type discussed here. Of hand, I can only remember maybe one, and that was from a guy with 19 posts.

Folks like you tend to have over-active imaginations and make up bullshit that doesn't exist to back your point.

You can't back up your claims, so you resort to hand waving.

[T Town Jake]

119. Yeah, right - I'm not the one pretending they don't know how to read...

...but then that's been your pitiful little act from the beginning.

[cracksquirrel]

5. This makes me physically sick....

My mom's a kindergarten teacher at the local JCC... they have an armed guard now. A man with a gun guarding preschoolers. Because people out there want to walk into a JCC and shoot preschoolers and teachers because they are Jews.

[Warren DeMontague]

9. I don't doubt it. Sad. Truly, truly sad.

:(

[tenshi816]

40. The JCC in Atlanta

has had stringent security for a good while now, so the situation at your local JCC doesn't surprise me. What would surprise me this day and age would be a JCC that didn't have tough security.

The necessity of it makes me very sad though.

Edited for grammar

[fujiyama]

97. Wasn't there a shooting

at a Jewish school in CA a few years ago?

There really are some sick motherfuckers out there. I hope your mom keeps safe.

[LostinVA]

22. No one on DU has ever said that n/t

[Warren DeMontague]

34. That's funny. It's one of the less offensive things I've seen in the past

week or so. Hell, I was told that any belief that Arab countries were prepared to attack Israel in 1967 sprang from a "petty persecution complex". I didn't even mention Israel, yet upthread I'm accused of "spreading Israeli propaganda".

Fortunately, the worst examples of anti-semitism have been scooped up by the mods pretty quickly, but that only gives some folks more ammunition to argue that it's "not a real problem".

A couple posts down, you have someone griping about the posting of this "old" (dated Aug. 1) story to elicit "sympathy" for Jews and Israel. Meanwhile, someone else in the thread has mentioned that a JCC preschool his relative works at- in this country- has to have an armed guard right now. Wow, funny, I think it's relevant news. And I'm not someone who has hesitated to criticize the government of Israel when appropriate, particularly recently.

But what you have going on here, IMHO, is some folks who don't like to hear ANY facts that disrupt their personal narrative, when that narrative includes Israel (and, by default, apparently, all Jews) being the perennial "bad guy".

[LostinVA]

62. Whatever

[Name removed]

92. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[catmother]

4. well he could have just gone to lebanon and joined Hizbollah.

[DistressedAmerican]

7. Politically motivated TERRORISM

[cracksquirrel]

10. Dingdingding!

We found a terrorist! And he's in the USA! And there don't seem to be any in the middle east... unless we're talking about Israel, cuz you know... Israel's a terrorist.
*sigh*

[DistressedAmerican]

11. huh?

[cracksquirrel]

14. Nothin'

I'm just rambling.

[aquart]

20. I know. I know.

[izzybeans]

16. I think I said this before: If this is freedom's march then count me out.

What a horrible scene. Tragically globalized violence at its worst.

[I_Make_Mistakes]

18. Please stop all this propaganda BS. I worked for Siemens

phone chip plant and the NY Times, I believe published an article stating that Siemens provided nuclear technology to SH during the first Gulf War. First of, the nuclear tech was in the form of medical equipment and secondly, we had purchased ROLM tech a phone chip co.

We were subjected to body (not cavity) searches, brief cases and any personal item we carried to work for a frigging week, because I guess we were going to blow ourselves up!

They only caved when all of us, college grad. type people threatened to quit.

Just stop the BS, there really is enough to worry about here.

We are going to have to pay a really high price for the USG's decisions already, do you really want to create more problems.

The Congress, is going to vote on Dumsfield's request to create new reasons for detention, Oh God, it's the 1940's all over again!

[Warren DeMontague]

24. What?

Are you saying there was no shooting in Seattle? :tinfoilhat: :crazy:

[cracksquirrel]

65. No!

They were Zionist MIND BULLETS!

[acmejack]

Thank you IMM

I have sat here keyboarding replies and deleting them. I find no words to express what I feel here. The killing of innocents simply must stop!

Let all these war mongering hateful people go kill each other. They all want to kill so called "soft"targets, meaning unarmed, unsuspecting civilians people who won't shoot back and kill them. They are cowards, is what I say. The guy didn't boldly go to nearby Fort Lewis and find an armed soldier with a Jewish surname and shoot him or her. That would have made much more of a statement, IMHO, certainly would have got more ink, plus he would have certainly had a martyr's funeral.

[I_Make_Mistakes]

71. Martyrs are killed because they selflessly embrace God's

commandment of "Thou shall not kill", period.

Most Christians never quite grasp the concept of Judas, Jesus in Gethsemane. Jesus told the Apostles lay down your swords, because he followed God's commandment (see above). We are taught that it is ok to kill in self defense (started in the Catholic Church and followed thru all us splintered groups). That is the biggest lie perpetrated by whom ever, Jesus died because he honored the commandment "Thou shall not kill", any one who professes belief in Jesus and condones murder is not a Christian and will find out soon enough (Judgment Day awaits all Abrahamic faiths). It just sucks that God doesn't care enough about Man to show it here and now!

[bigtree]

23. great, I guess by posting this old story you are trying to evoke sympathy

for Jews, or Israel. I feel sorry for the victims.

But, I fail to see what the actions and words of this lone shooter have to do with anything other than his sorry, idiotic act. Hate is not a new thing, and its not restricted to those who express hatred for Jews.

[sabra]

25. I posted this because ABC optained the probable cause statement

with the 9/11 transcript...

[H2O Man]

41. It's a valid post.

It deserves our attention. It was a terrible hate crime, and no matter what one's opinion of the Lebanon issue(s), there should be no question this is newsworthy, and a valid topic for discussion here.

[bigtree]

61. It has been discussed here.

repeatedly. I think the poster knows this.

[H2O Man]

94. It likely has been

discussed, and should be. It's a significant current event. It is an ugly hate crime that represents the ugliest potential of the debate about the violence in the Middle East. It should not be considered questionable for people to post updates on it. Hate crimes damage the fabric of our society, and are important issues to discuss.

[bigtree]

100. I simply didn't see this as an 'update' so I commented on it

The assailant threw out all kinds of nonsense as reasons for his shooting. I suspect that he's just insane.

I don't see the value in repeating the words as I think they were offered by him to inflame passions and spread hate. It's entirely possible that he wanted to elevate his words with his act, but that isn't my impression. Others will certainly disagree. I think he was an insane idiot. What's so important about that, I can't see. But, that's just a reflection of my belief that he's just another nut with an arsenal of hateful words. Not much, in my opinion, there that would say a great deal about anything, except, maybe, that there are people who express hatred along with their senseless violence. They don't deserve the platform that this creep has been given for his remarks.

[H2O Man]

104. While I tend

to agree with you on most things I've read on DU, I would have to disagree on the "he's just insane." At this point, the reports indicate he has a bipolar disorder. That can include a fairly significant range of issues. It would not seem likely to predispose a non-violent person to killing a group of women gathered in religious worship. I think that it is wrong to connect his behavior with bipolar disorder, because it has people thinking that mental illness per say is a risk factor for violence. Without any question, those who have mental illness are far more likely to be the victim of violence, than to commit it.

[bigtree]

106. I got the impression that he just spouted out whatever came into his head

whatever the case, I haven't taken as much care with the issue of mental illness, as I do with most else I do. Good for you to speak out about victims of bipolar disorder.

but, I think this assailant was . . . wrong. I think he used those statements to rationalize his killing. His actions don't follow the pattern of a sane man.

But that may be just a reflection of how I view most folks who kill wantonly. Insane. Not very astute, possibly insensitive and misleading, but to the point. Maybe not insane to the point of excusing his actions, though, as the courts do with insanity pleas. I don't know. My impression was that he was just off, however we characterize it. I'm all for the hte crime aspect if it enables a more effective prosecution, but I think it would be a mistake to elevate his words as something other than a desperate defense of the indefensible.

*I* think. That holds as much sway as any other drop in the bucket.

[H2O Man]

115. Right.

His behavior appears a far closer fit to the "usual" (life in the US!) fellow who has a chip on his shoulder, blames others for that chip, and goes into a building and shoots innocent victims. Sad to say it is a growing group. More, there is a second group of individuals who frequently fantasize about taking a gun and killing people (ex-spouse's family, co-workers, etc) but who having reached the tipping point. As a general rule, these people share a number of personality characteristics that can be identified. Those who do the killings are not that different than those who fantasize about it, and those who fantasize about it generally fit into society, though perhaps they are most heavily concentrated in the margins. It is absolutely correct to say, "They are not 'right' in the head." Yet the factors that make them so dangerous do not tend to include bi-polar disorders. Rather, it has to do with hatred, bitterness, anger, and frustration. It is, of course, possible that a person like that could have an affective disorder as well.

If this case does go to trial, it will be interesting to watch.

[cali]

80. I think it's arguable that it was, in fact, a true hate crime.

It appears that it was the crime of a seriously mentally ill man. He has bipolar disorder, and a long history of bizarre behavior.

[bigtree]

43. like I said. this has been posted here before.

this is old news, despite the weak argument about some probable cause statement. That's not how this was presented and you know it. Not one word in th OP about a probable cause statement.

I think it was posted to inflame. I'm sure it will, and I'm certain now that you won't take any responsibility for it.

[sabra]

82. show me another thread that has the proabable cause statment and 9/11 t

transcript

from my OP:

<snip>

According to a statement of probable cause obtained in full by ABC News, Haq entered the building armed with two heavy caliber handguns -- a .45 cal. automatic and a .40 cal automatic. The four survivors of his shooting spree suffered wounds to the abdomen, groin and limbs.

[bigtree]

85. thin reed

[cracksquirrel]

89. Two words...

Strung together...
Without explanation...
Without meaning...
Everyone... puzzled.
Ch-ch-ah!
*bongos*

[Warren DeMontague]

26. This "old story" is dated August 1.

Sorry if the truth disrupts your personal narrative on global events. There is a thread ignore function, you know.

[Behind the Aegis]

27. A classic example of...

...excusing or dismissing anti-Semitism! I am disgusted by his statement!

[cracksquirrel]

31. Disgusted...

But surprised? I mean hell, BTA, I've seen you posting here for as long as I can remember (I never bothered to register myself until this summer)... what is all this like for you and other Jewish / non-rabidly anti-Israel posters who have been here and dedicated to DU for a long time? I'm pissed and I practically just got here.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Behind the Aegis]

46. Excuse me? Project much?

Where did I use hateful, racist slander?

And you don't know me, so don't pretend you would know I would react to you.

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Behind the Aegis]

56. Strawman.

I haven't labeled anyone an anti-Semite at DU. If I think someone is an anti-Semite, I alert and expalin why I alerted.

[cracksquirrel]

57. Because he's nuts

:crazy:

[I_Make_Mistakes]

54. Actually, I used to excuse any of the Israelis actions because of

the Holocaust, then I found that is an excuse for everything they do. My good friend (Jewish), who is also an atheist defended the JEWS (I hate that word as much as the N word, because in my past both were used derogatorily), prior to this like 10 yrs ago, because she gave no credit to the 3 + million non-Jews (who died as a result of aiding the Jews).

The problem is, this is a Rovian tactic, divide and conquer, I think this is part of the October surprise, somehow, Iran and Syria will do something bad also.

I have decided that Israel is the David (of today) and she will bring down the Goliath (the US gov't) of today. We, must resign ourselves to the fact that we were a great super power until (Our government and Israels government became hauty and turned God against us).

[fujiyama]

101. It's all part of the ZOG

Every Jew has been recruited by the elders of Zion to destroy Christianity and Islam...Does this need a :sarcasm: tag?

I'm sorry, but people that refuse to admit anti-Semitism as a unique historical hatred live in denial. I don't think I've ever heard as many conspiracy theories about one group of people, that too one that makes a relatively small % of the world's population.

Disturbing.

[bigtree]

32. sorry this is and old story. These hateful words have been spread out here

for everyone to vibe on. Nice to see them being kept alive to feed more hate and resentment. Nice to see them thrown out as bait.

[sabra]

33. so the probable cause statement and 9/11 transcript is old news?

[bigtree]

44. that's just a cover you are using to spread the hate.

[Behind the Aegis]

47. .

:eyes:

[bigtree]

52. .

that's right. spreading hatred.

[Behind the Aegis]

59. how is reporting this story spreading hatred?

The article is one day old. The event a few days old. Why do get to decide what is discussed or not here? And HOW is reporting/posting this story spreading hate?

[bigtree]

64. the article is rehashing an old story

[cracksquirrel]

67. Hey...

I've heard this "old story" thing before... from the Bushbots concerning anything bad the Republicans ever did! I think what we have here is REALLY a Zionist Neocon here in disguise to sew dissention in the ranks!
(probably not)
(but turnabout sucks sometimes)

[Behind the Aegis]

69. how is THAT spreading hate?

[cracksquirrel]

60. .

New, low-sodium hate spread! No more messy cutting-boards, no more having to keep that gross looking stick of hate in a container in the fridge; now you can have hate on all your favorite bread products and have it hygenically sealed in our hate-tite (tm) container!

[bigtree]

72. funny though, I don't hate

I don't have ANY need for it at all. No one who KNOWS me would accuse me of hatred.

[cracksquirrel]

75. I'm not!

I'm just trying to offer you some of this fabulous new, low-sodium hate spread! Great on toast!

[Meshuga]

79. Spreading hate?

How so? :crazy:

[bigtree]

84. throwing these words out there without opinion or comment

should I assume the poster's mindset on the discussion page? I did and have been creamed for my opinion of the post. I think it was throw out like red meat for the masses. I spoke my mind about that.

I think it was put out to inflame, despite the strange protest of the OP that it was because of a 'probable cause statement'

BTW, how is the OP managing this post? Where's all of the stuff that would encourage 'debate?' All I got from the OP was a defense of the relevance of this old report about the assailant's words that is not in the OP.

Just where DID that OP go?

[cracksquirrel]

90. Where did the OP go?

Probably went to make a sandwich. Some people unlike us have things to do ^ ^.

[Warren DeMontague]

39. Mmmm Hmmm.

Why don't you prepare a list of what we're allowed to talk about, and what we aren't?

[cracksquirrel]

48. He's got a little list!

He's got a little list...
He's got a little list...
He's got a little list, and they surely won't be missed...

[cracksquirrel]

42. Yes

Bait for people like you to come swooping in full of bluster and self-righteousness, only to make an ass of yourself in front of all these people...

[bigtree]

49. Boy do I feel ashamed. I mean my whole life, ruined

because of your strident criticism.

[cracksquirrel]

53. Really?

Cause' I wouldn't say the guy in the funny robes standing on the streetcorner with a magic-marker scribbled sign full of conspiracy theories had much of a life to ruin...

[bigtree]

66. you need to check your crap

I didn't do or say anything to deserve all of this ridicule, as if you know me or ANYthing about me.

[cracksquirrel]

68. I know this

You came in here blustering about how a pregnant woman getting shot in Seatle LAST WEEKEND was an "old story", and that WE'RE the hatemongers for pointing out anti-semitism in the world. Really, I don't need to know the particulars about your feeding / mating/ social habits.

[bigtree]

74. well you got the platform and spent your time castigating ME

instead of the assailant. How concern ARE you with the story?

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bigtree]

86. again, I'm completely devastated by your opinion of me

and by the callous way you just dismissed the story you've pretended to be so concerned about

[cracksquirrel]

88. Ah yes

My feigned concern... you know, if only MORE pregnant Jewish women were shot so I would have an opportunity to parse words with complete lunatics more frequently!
:sarcasm: :wtf:

[bigtree]

91. so much of your wonderful character on display

it makes sense that you would spend more time insulting me than a murderous assailant. That's a pretty good demonstration of your level of concern. You didn't REALLY care about the pregnant woman did you? This is just an opportunity to pile on me with all of your pent-up anger and hatred. Isn't it?

[cracksquirrel]

93. Well...

You make a damn good punching bag! You really should charge a fee for this. I mean, right now, seriously, I feel AWESOME. Here's the deal: you set up a website where you invite people with pent-up aggression / anger issues, and have them meet you somewhere or over the phone. After they pay the pre-arranged fee, or hourly rate, you begin yelling crazy things; and they then start yelling back how bloody crazy you are. You then make wild accusations at them, and they respond with sarcastic humor, knowing that, you being crazy, you won't notice the sarcasm and will respond with a kind of manic gravitas that should scare the crap out of me, but instead amuses me in some sick sense. Eventually they just feel great about themselves, and you're a couple hundred bucks richer!

[bigtree]

96. scare the crap out of you? really?

manic? I'm not the one throwing around the 'insane' 'crazy' rhetoric. That's you. You've taken to attacking my every word with the most insulting insinuations that you can conjure.

And I'm supposed to be the scary one?

[cracksquirrel]

99. I try not to be scary...

I try to be funny most of the time... it's just a matter of not taking myself seriously. And also, I can conjure up much worse insinuations, but I figure we might as well keep things here... lighthearted (teehee).

[bigtree]

102. I'm pretty much of a wise ass myself

that won't be demonstrated much here . . . I hope

[cracksquirrel]

103. lol

I think it might be a bit late for both of us... ah screw it, let's just do coffee.

[bigtree]

107. now you're talkin. this certainly isn't my finest hour

I hope we can collaborate on addressing something that strikes us wrong in the future.

I really don't sense more than a smidgen of disagreement between us on the underlying issues that our party concerns itself with. That is usually the focus of my efforts here, despite my lapses into these rhetorical slap fights.

I will certainly be looking out for more enlightenment from you, cracksquirrel.

[cracksquirrel]

117. Enlightenment?

*ahem*
*best Tedd voice*:
"We're all like... sand, blowin' in the wind, man..."

[DemonFighterLives]

108. I haven't seen a funny post by you yet

Get a grip!
:dem:

[cracksquirrel]

118. Hey now

At least I try! Did Polly Shore give up? No. Did Adam Sandler give up having not made a funny movie in a decade? No. Did Carlos Mencia give up when he was called "seriously unfunny", "vile", or "a complete moron"? No. They stayed STRONG! And Carlos got his own TV show, even if he's never been funny in his life! Some day I might have my own TV show... then you'll see...

[DemonFighterLives]

120. Keep trying bro

Welcome to DU!
:dem:

[Meshuga]

81. I didn't know it was a pregnant woman!

Thanks to the OP now I am more informed regardless whether it was old news or not. I don't hate anybody or any group for reading this old news. What is the fear here? I don't get it!

[cracksquirrel]

83. The fear?

That the Jews won't be portrayed as the all-encompassing oppressor, and that these were just women in an office in Seatle who got shot SIMPLY because they were Jews, or in the vicinity of Jews. Personally I'm kinda glad all these nice folks posting here are coming out of the woodwork lately... a sickening but needed dose of reality.

[bigtree]

87. no fear

sickened by the repetition of the assailant's words, as if they comprise some majority of opinion. They're fringe, celebrated by a sick, depraved few. They don't deserve to be furthered here or anywhere else.

[norml]

73. You would know.

[cracksquirrel]

77. Yeah I know...

I've been baiting him a bit, but COME ON! It's like a train wreck... you can't look away and always want to see more.

[Swamp Rat]

70. I feel sorry for the victims and their families whose plight will be

overshadowed by political infighting and propagandists on all sides.

[cracksquirrel]

78. Too late.

Please exit this thread before you become inconsolably depressed. Although there were some rather funny Zionist jokes near the beginning...

[fujiyama]

95. If he was upset

at US foreign policy, why didn't he kill a policy maker instead? Or if he was so damn gutsy, why didn't he try to go to Israel and take on the IDF himself.

Typical terrorist rationalization on his part. "I have a problem with someone's government. Let's kill innocent people instead".

[Jacobin]

98. Demented people will use any excuse to kill

That's not anti semitism. That a nutbag

[everythingsxen]

109. I find it interesting though....

how many "demented people" seem to be coming out of the woodwork lately...

Seattle, Rome, New Zealand, Turkey, Australia......

every day more "demented people" who are clearly not anti-semites by your definition, attack synagogues, jewish owned shops.......

I am sure the Jewish community will be glad to hear that this is just an outbreak of dementia and not a world-wide outbreak of anti-semitism.

[Jacobin]

110. I was responding to the shooting spree

Surely you don't believe this guy was typical of the bigots who paint swastikas and deface synagogues.

I seem to remember a spate of beatings and killings of Muslims after 9/11 also.

[everythingsxen]

112. And you are saying that the people who beat and killed Muslims...

after 9/11 weren't the type of people who would burn a cross on a lawn or maybe throw a brick in the night?

[Jacobin]

113. I draw a distinction

between hateful actions, vandalism and shooting people dead with a weapon.

if you don't that's up to you.

[everythingsxen]

114. I don't; at least when the motive is racism (NT)