I think that this is true for many DUers, but will let them speak for themselves. I hope that this will slow down all the offensive threads questioning support of Israel that, had we had fair minded moderators, would have been removed just because the titles themselves are so flaming and offensive.
I was always against Israel being in the occupied territories of Gaza and the West Bank. I agreed with Uri Avneri (if you don't know who he is than you have no stand at this discussion) when, immediately following the 1967 war, said that Israel should reach to the Palestinians in these territories to form a federation.
I despaired at the influx of new immigrants, mostly from Brooklyn, who were dreaming about "Greater Israel" who settled in the territories, who claimed that this was their god-given right and who hijacked several Israeli governments and changed the character of the State of Israel. Instead of it being a tolerant, secular, thriving to build a new just society, these settlers did they best to turn it into a theocracy.
I despaired at the immediate rejections of many peace initiatives, of any attempt to at least "give peace a chance."
I wondered whether the 1973 and the 1982 wars could have been prevented if only...
I held to the notion that one does talk to one's enemy, not only to one's friend.
And, yes, I despaired, still do, at the support that Israel gets from Evangelical Christians. I remember when Israel used to be admired by many the world over for being a young, brave and just society, for the kibbutz movement, for working the arid and swamp land - the only one that the new comers could purchase from the Arabs of the Ottoman Empire.
I have to repeat some of these obvious facts since there are so many DUers who just fire, shoot and aim without showing a minimal knowledge of the history of that region.
And this is why I have to constantly - that is, when I have the stomach to read all the flaming threads - correct basic facts.
Let me briefly list them here. Yes, I know that this is a complex issue but one has to know the facts, first. Too many of the flamers rely only on very biased sources and think that this is OK. I strongly recommend this site
http://www.mideastweb.org/ which is run by both Israelis and Palestinians.
First, during WWI the British made conflicting promises to the Jews and to the Arabs about building homeland in the land that was part of the Ottoman Empire - what we now call the Middle East.
After WWI, the British arbitrarily drew the borders of the new nations there. Not only did Churchill put three antagonistic tribes in one country - Iraq - he also decided that Iraq should not have access to the Persian Gulf and he tore the oil rich province of Kuwait to make it a separate state (Hussein was not that crazy when he invaded it in 1990). Further, Churchill promised Sharif Hussein that his two sons would be given two states: Trans Jordan and Syria. But since Syria (and Lebanon) were put under the French mandate following WWI, Faisal, after being kicked from Syria by the French, was given Iraq as a consolation. And started a thread of hatred and mistrust of the West among the Iraqis.
The Holocaust. We cannot ignore it since the end of WWII found Jews who survived the war and the camps homeless with no place to go. Before they were sent to the Concentration Camps, they were stripped of any possessions and jobs, of community ties and were placed in crowded ghettos. In contrast to many who also survived the Concentration Camps and could try to go home, the Jews had no place to go. There were always Jews in Palestine and many came there since they had families there. I had another thread that was banished to the I/P forum by a pea-brained moderator and then was promptly blocked there and we had a civil discussion about what one should have done with the Jews in 1945 (short of wishing them to disappear from the face of the earth or have a mass conversion, of course). No other country was going to take them.
In 1947 the UN voted to terminate the British mandate and to divide the land between the sea and the river into two states: a Jewish one and an Arab one. The Jews accepted it, the Arabs did not. The next day several Arab nations with strong armies attacked Israel that did not have much of an army. But Israel won and gained more land. Several cease fire agreements were signed, to be temporary until a final peace would come and final borders would be drawn.
Israelis were no saints and acts of atrocity did take place during the war. Many Arabs escaped to the what would later be called the West Bank and Gaza, hoping to some day return.
Many of them, to this day, are still in wretched refugee camps, with hopes that are continually being broken, living hopelessly, believing that being suicide bombers (and meeting 70 virgins) is the only way out.
A similar number of Jews - around 600,000 - escape Arab countries and came to Israel, where they were absorbed and became contributing members of society.
In 1950 Trans Jordan annexed the West Bank and Egypt took over Gaza. To the best of my knowledge, only Britain and Pakistan recognized this annexation. No one was talking about "liberation of Palestinians then." While Jordan awarded citizenship to the resident there, and many left for this country, the people of Gaza were in limbo.
In 1956, after constant infiltration by terrorist from the Sinai peninsula, Israel was enticed by Britain and France to attack Egypt. Britain and France did not like Egypt's Nasser nationalizing their oil operations. The Eisenhower administration demanded that Israel withdraw and it did. UN troops were stations at Gaza.
In 1967 Egypt's Nasser told the UN troops to get out, which they did and then blockaded the straits of Tiran. This is an act of war recognized the world over. For three weeks Israel sought diplomatic solutions, with its former friends - France and Britain who turning away. It finally attacked Egypt.
Syria and Jordan decided to join and all countries lost, and lost land.
The PLO was formed in 1965 - before Israel took over the West Bank and Gaza.
In September 1970 the PLO was trying to take over Jordan and was evicted during a major battle. A small group was formed called itself "Black September" and its notoriety came when the Israeli athletes were massacred during the 1972 Munich Olympics. The Palestinians moved to Lebanon.
In 1975 a civil war started in Lebanon, by the Palestinians who were there. That war that lasted 20 years. Syria, who always considered Lebanon and Israel part of "Greater Syria" invaded to control it and it was there until last year.
In 1982 Israel got tired of being attacked by PLO that took over homes and villages in Southern Lebanon - like the Hezbollah has being doing now - and invaded Lebanon to move the threat some 20 miles north. Israel was there until 2000.
In 1993 the Israelis and the Palestinians signed the Oslo agreement that would start a process where Israel would withdraw from the occupied territories for a real peace. This process lasted until the summer of 2000, when Arafat would not sign for the last details.
A few comments about Arafat: after the PLO leadership was kicked from Lebanon, it moved to Tunisia and it came to the West Bank after the Oslo agreement was signed. There were young people in the West Bank who fought during the "first Intifada" of the 80s but instead of them being now in charge of a peace process for which they fought, they got a corrupt, staid PLO leadership descending on them from above. Over the years the PLO was getting millions of dollars from various sources, but instead of investing in their people and in infrastructure, most went to their private bank accounts. When Arafat died three years ago, his widow got a settlement of several millions. We all know of soldiers who come home after showing bravery in war and cannot find their place at peace time. Something like that could be said about Arafat. He lived as a wanted terrorist for most of his adult life and could not see himself running a country, worrying about boring items like infrastructure and tourism.
This was the last straw for me. All those years I thought that Israel was not doing enough but once Arafat walked out of Camp David with Clinton and Israel's Barak, what was there to do?
Then came 9/11 with all the conspiracy theories, with the LIHOP and MIHOP and with Israel being to blame. And then I realized how those of us, who honestly criticized Israel during all those years, were just the suckers.
There are many people, especially among liberals and progressive, who do not care to know the history of Israel and the area. In Europe it started with its complete dependence on Arab oil - before the North Sea drilling - and with the huge influx of Arabs from North Africa, who have dominated the universities. There are young people who are not familiar with the history of israel, who see it as a super power; they are not even aware of its true size. Many who are willing to believe any lies about Israel. Remember the "Jenin Massacre" that never was? All those who mourn the loss of Innocent lives in Palestine, but never the innocent victims of terror by suicide bombers.
And it was then that I decided that I was not going to criticize Israel any more. I realize that too many liberals and progressive, for whatever their reason, will attack Israel no matter what and I was not going to provide them with ammunition.
Ever since I joined DU - January 2004 - I knew that there was an anti-Israel strong under current, but in most cases chose to ignore it. I was glad that most discussions were confined to the I/P forum.
Earlier this year the Palestinians had elections and Hamas won many votes.
Hamas and Hezbollah are different from the PLO in that they do not so much want to liberate the West Bank and Gaza as they want to eliminate Israel altogether.
They are part of the recent wave of jihadists, including Al Qaeda, who want to bring the past glory of Islam from the first Millennium back (including women in Burka who can be raped to punish a male member of the family, or who can be buried alive when found to commit adultery, but not the male partner, of course).
This is the global terror. These groups are not any romantic people a-la Rudolph Valentino the Sheik or Omar Sharif from Laurence of Arabia.
These are dangerous people who are being pushed from moderate countries like Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia, into weaker countries like Lebanon and Afghanistan from where they can operate.
Israel cannot solve this terror problem alone. It will require the realization by Europe and other countries that just as Israel being shelled now they could be, too.
But Israel will be damned if it will not take measure to remove these organizations, that are not interested in any "talks" (the "prisoner exchange" is just a ruse), but want to eliminate the country altogether. Their strong bunkers and cache of ammunition that they built for six years are a proof.
There are many commentaries about Iran being behind this, about Russia, and China. About Iran being "mad" at Nassrallah for starting the attack now, instead of waiting until Iran were ready with its nuclear bombs. I don't know.
I know that Israel is defending itself; that any other country under similar conditions would do the same and that I, and other DUers, will defend its actions no matter how offensive and flaming the threads by the majority of DUers are.
And I wish that the administrators of this site would make up their mind whether they agree that continuing threads about Israel - most of them repeat each other at increasing flame and hatred - should pretty much take over other issues.
I was looking for news about Kansas school board elections, about the primary in Georgia, and had hard time finding them among all the hateful threads about Israel.
I have been getting PM and reading here about DUers wondering of whether they should just leave DU this place, at least for the time being. I have thought about this, too, but know that whenever I can, I have to at least correct the wrong facts.
Last, here is a map, just to put the countries involved in perspective.
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