Who created Hezbollah?

[Clarkie1]

O.K., just one poll for the day and I'm outta here. I want to clear something up, and I hope this poll helps:

[maalak]

1. wow.... just wow.

:|

[Clarkie1]

2. Oh, and by the way...saying Israel created Hezbollah is like saying

The rain created an umbrella...or a jacket...or a poncho...or a tent...there are so many things in that view that the rain can "create." The point is, people have choices how they respond.

And I see that logical fallacy is winning here already, but then again people seldom stop to think logically about issues such as this.

[azurnoir]

5. No rain did not create

the umbrella; rain made the umbrella necessary.

[Clarkie1]

8. No it did not.

Why not use a tent, a poncho, a rain jacket, or simply walk in the rain...peacefully, knowing that the storm will pass and a new day dawn?

People have choices.

[Bretttido]

10. Wow.... really stretching on that one....

[azurnoir]

18. All in all

no matter what you call whats keeping you dry, your still dry or a rose is a ......

[manic expression]

47. Get a grip, you have lost it

Israel invaded Lebanon, Israel occupied Lebanon. People were always going to fight back against this aggression. That is why Hezbollah was formed.

Israel's actions are CLEARLY the reason why Hezbollah was formed.

"Why not use a tent, a poncho, a rain jacket, or simply walk in the rain...peacefully, knowing that the storm will pass and a new day dawn?"

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

You cannot be serious. People are not unjustified in fighting against unreasonable and belligerent wrongdoing, and that is what Israel was inflicting upon Lebanon and its people.

[Behind the Aegis]

6. I think it is also akin to...

The Emancipation Proclamation created the KKK.

[ThomCat]

9. Right, because Israel has been so benevolent.

:eyes:

[Behind the Aegis]

13. That's irrelevant to the poll question.

But nice strawman.

[ThomCat]

15. It's relevent to your rediculous analogy.

Which is what I was responding to.

[Behind the Aegis]

19. No, it's not.

Both the poll question and what I wrote are analogous. The Emancipation Proclamation no more created the KKK then Israel created Hizb'allah.

[ThomCat]

23. Israel's occupation of Lebanon was no emancipation.

And even implying that it was is insulting.

[Behind the Aegis]

25. It was an example of causation, not an implication...

...that Israel was freeing Lebanon. :eyes:

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[JackNewtown]

44. That was the Israeli argument when it began it attack on Lebanon this year

Taking a page out of their neocon friends' playbook?

[Name removed]

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[azurnoir]

20. better analogy n/t

[liberal N proud]

7. The US created Saddam and Kadafi and Norega and...

Before we decided they were "BAD MEN"

I did not vote for Israel in this poll, but just to put things in perspective, look at the regimes the US put in power only to have them turn on us.

I have no idea who created them and until I study that, I will not vote in any related poll.

[mike_c]

28. well what did you expect?-- you framed this so-called "poll..."

...in such a way as to make the outcome a foregone conclusion. Hezbollah draws much of its authority from Israel's actions in the region, its mistreatment of Palestinians, its long occupation of Lebanon, etc. You framed the poll to try and exclude those circumstances-- you tried to substitute bald oversimplifications for the facts-- what else did you expect?

[The Magistrate]

3. The Founding Members, Sir

With assistance from Iranian Revolutionary Guard personnel. The founding certainly followed the Israeli ionvasion of Lebanon, and may well not have occured without that. It was, however, at the time, policy of the Islamic Republic of Iran to encourage Shia radicalism whwerever there were pockets of their co-sectarians, and doubtless there would have been some effort on these lines aimed at southern Lebanon even absent any Israeli activity there at that time.

[SteppingRazor]

4. The founding members of Hezbollah, of course

if you answer Israel, you're pointing to causation. This would make as much sense.

Israel created Hezbollah.

The winners of WWII created Israel.

World War II was fought against German aggression.

German aggression was the result of Hitler's policies.

Therefore, Hitler created Hezbollah.

One could draw the causal tie even further back of course, with ever-more-ludicrous results.

[Make7]

35. I thought that game involved Kevin Bacon. ( n/t )

[Kagemusha]

11. Uh Dawa created Hezbollah.

You know, the party from with Iraqi PM Maliki is from.. he was their man in Damascus in the early 80's when most of Dawa was in exile because Saddam was persecuting it so hard.

Edit: And the rest were in Iran, providing the Iranian government with its main link to Arab Shiites.

[atreides1]

12. It looks to be self created, with assistance from Iran.

Origins
Scholars differ as to when Hezbollah came to be a distinct entity. Some organizations list the official formation of the group as early as 1982, whereas Diaz and Newman maintain that Hezbollah remained an amalgamation of various violent Shi’a extremists until as late as 1985. Regardless of when the name came into official use, a number of Shi’a groups were slowly assimilated into the organization, such as Islamic Jihad, Organization of the Oppressed on Earth and the Revolutionary Justice Organization . These designations are considered to be synonymous with Hezbollah by the US, Israel and Canada


Logo of Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps, from which Hezbollah’s logo is inspired Hezbollah's strength was enhanced by the dispatching of one thousand to fifteen hundred members of the Iranian Revolutionary Guards and the financial backing of Iran. It became the main politico-military force among the Shia community in Lebanon and the main arm of what became known later as the Islamic Resistance in Lebanon. Hezbollah follows a Shiite Islamist ideology shared by the leader of the 1979 Islamic Revolution in Iran, Ayatollah Khomeini, but it has abandoned its goal of establishing a fundamentalist Shiite state in Lebanon. Many people in Hezbollah said many times that they have never had such a target.

The question really should be, what caused Hezbollah to be created.

[breakaleg]

14. what a ridiculous poll! there is only one answer but that's not

what you are trying to get at.

Of course Hezbollah created Hezbollah - who else could have?

The question is WHY was Hezbollah created? What was the impetus to form such a goup?

Clearly, you aren't interested in the truth.

[Behind the Aegis]

21. You should read more posts.

There have been plenty of people saying Israel created Hizb'allah. This poll confirms that assertion.

"Of course Hezbollah created Hezbollah - who else could have?" Well, apparently quite think ISRAEL did.

"The question is WHY was Hezbollah created? What was the impetus to form such a goup?" That was NOT the question.

"Clearly, you aren't interested in the truth." No. That would be you! In your own post you acknowledge that Hizb'allah was created by itself (not including the external source of Iran), but then feign that "who else could have?" when it is very clear that some here think Israel created it!

[breakaleg]

30. I also believe Israel is responsible for the creation of Hezbollah

Is was their invasion of Lebanon that caused some Lebanese people to join together and fight back - quite effectively I might add.

The poll is ambiguous. The OP is trying to force people to say that Hezbollah was created by themselves, with no outside influence.

And people aren't falling for it.

[Behind the Aegis]

41. No suprises there.

Created? I don't think so. Even you say..."Is was their invasion of Lebanon that caused some..."

[breakaleg]

43. I said they were responsible for the creation of. I didn't say they

created it directly.

You shouldn't be surprised. It's the truth.

[manic expression]

49. Maybe you should comprehend them

"Israel created Hezbollah" is a way of saying that Israel's actions caused the creation of Hezbollah, without the invasion and occupation of Lebanon, Hezbollah would never have been formed. That is a correct and accurate and reasonable statement, and only the most myopic person would deny the real meaning of the phrase. You are trying to clamp your hands over your ears and sing, but that changes nothing.

[Bretttido]

16. Did Israel create Hezzbolah? No.

Would Hezzbolah exist if Israel did not invade Lebanon in 1982? No

The proper question would be: Was Hezzbolah's creation a direct response to Israel's invasion of Lebanon? Apart from ignoring facts, the answer would be a unanimous yes.

[Mandate My Ass]

27. "apart from ignoring the facts..."

Ah but what fun is that? Reducing everything to black/white and good/evil is so much better. One must smugly pick one's side and pretend that one's opinion is indeed a fact that can't be disputed.

[breakaleg]

31. exactly! this whole question is riduculous...

[NJ Democrats]

17. The answer is the founding members

with help from iran and Syria. If you think Israel created it, then you better re-view your beliefs because Israel DID NOT create Hizbollah just like they DID NOT Start this war.

[manic expression]

46. Not if you actually consider history

sure, the founding members "created" Hezbollah. Good for you.

However, anyone who knows anything about the situation will tell you that Hezbollah was created because of Israel's invasion and occupation of Lebanon. The creation of Hezbollah was a direct result of Israel's actions. Therefore, Israel is surely at fault for Hezbollah's creation, Israel is responsible for the action which led to the reaction.

Oh, and Israel did escalate this conflict into a full-blown war. That much is obvious, so you're wrong once again.

[cracksquirrel]

22. LOL!

Of COURSE Mossad created Hezbollah! They created Pol Pot first though, partly for kicks, but mostly for practice in order to LATER create Hezbollah.
But seriously, did everyone here just go stupid? Did a stupid bomb go off and everyone meandered, dazed and confused, into this thread and decided to vote that, rather than the FOUNDING MEMBERS OF HEZBOLLAH founding Hezbollah, it was, in fact, *drum roll*, teh jooz.
That's more than deserving of a golf clap.

[Lurking Dem]

39. .

:rofl:

[Lerkfish]

24. what does this clear up, exactly?

?

[yurbud]

26. the question is an over-simplification and misleading

Do you mean did Israel create the conditions that made the creation of Hezbollah more likely? Yes.

Does Israel run Hezbollah and have Israeli soldiers shooting the Katyusha missiles into Israel? Unlikely.

Are some people here desperately trying to deflect criticism of Israel or even open debate and questioning? Yes.

[stray cat]

29. Bin Laden did not create al queda the US did

Its easy to pass the blame but why is everyone so unwilling to blame perpetrators of any action. Is the US responsible for Timothy McVeighs action or was Timothy McVeigh?

[treestar]

32. To the mentality that says the Hezbollah is responsible for the

deaths caused by Israeli bombing, I would say, Isreal created Hezbollah. And this round, Israel is probably creating a group far more rabid than Hezbollah.

[Minstrel Boy]

33. Let it be known that all my responses to push polls

will be to push back.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

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[Posteritatis]

37. Last I heard, people were responsible for their own actions. (nt)

[allemand]

42. Israel's brutal 1982 invasion of Lebanon created Hezbollah. n/t

[manic expression]

45. This is an ignorant poll made to cater to ignorant views

the founding members created Hezbollah, but Hezbollah was created precisely because of Israel's occupation of southern Lebanon.

So, Israel's actions are the actual cause for Hezbollah's creation.

Good job on confirming that you are deranged and delusional.

[maalak]

48. by that logic.... why did Israel occupy southern Lebanon?

wouldn't that be the cause then?

[manic expression]

52. No

why? Because Israel's (delusional) "justification" for invading southern Lebanon did not prompt the formation of Hezbollah. The invasion, however, did. Don't shift the blame from where it belongs.

Furthermore, show us how Israel's invasion is somehow justified. Then you MIGHT have an argument (if you didn't notice, you don't right now).

[maalak]

53. that's not an answer....

why did Israel invade southern Lebanon before?

[manic expression]

55. That's not an argument

you can bring up your own evidence, there's nothing I have to prove. Until you do present your own evidence, you have no argument whatsoever.

[maalak]

56. you made the claim....

Hezbollah was created precisely because of Israel's occupation of southern Lebanon.

then you went on to claim:

Because Israel's (delusional) "justification" for invading southern Lebanon did not prompt the formation of Hezbollah. The invasion, however, did. Don't shift the blame from where it belongs.

what i'm asking is if you actually know why they originally invaded south Lebanon (beyond just making inflammatory vague statements about it...)

[manic expression]

57. Yes, I did

and you have done absoultely nothing to counter those claims. The only thing you have done is to ask me to provide you with information for your own claim, which is pathetic. Present evidence for your side of the argument, I'm not obligated to do your work for you.

Once again, you have no argument.

[Mr_Spock]

51. I agree.

There is much truth in your statement.

[Mr_Spock]

50. Repression & poverty created hizballah

But you already knew that.

[DistressedAmerican]

54. How about a "both" option? these choices are not exclusive at all.

It was alittle from column A and a little from column B.

Israel sparked its formation witht the 1980's invasion. However with no members it could not have formed.

Bogus poll choices.