99.99% of the people I know...

[Subdivisions]

don't even know, or do they care to know, what is really going on in our government. Hell, I don't think they even bother to vote. And why would we want them to if they don't know and don't care?

My question to you guys is this:

How are we ever going to stop the neo-con fascists from seizing total control of our country if the only people that care are the ones posting and to DU, other boards and blogs?

I feel fear and desparation and my impulse is to jump up and scream:

"WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?"

Everybody I know is going to wake up one day and ask "What the fuck happened? Why is gas $20/gallon and why can I no longer afford even a loaf of bread?"

Of course, due to their apathy and ignorance, they won't be asking "How did fascism happen in the United States?" They'll be asking "What's fascism and who is Karl Rove?"

Oh, and btw, can we really hope to get enough people to the polls who know what the stakes are to beat the neo-cons' cheating ways?

[unpossibles]

1. I wish I had the answer

while I've had a few people show interest, most of my friends probably want me to shut the hell up about it. Sadly,my own wife - who is quite liberal - is so sick of politics and feels like it doesn't matter after the 2004 election. I tried to explain to her that a lot is coming out about election reform/anti-fraud, and I think she just feels like it doesn't matter and doesn't effect her.

We've had a couple of discussions about that, but now I just ignore it unless it's something big.

I think what we need to do - much like how the rising gas prices have done - is to point out real changes that happen when people give up or ignore or don't care. I don't know.

[villager]

2. eventually, the fraying of the biosphere - global warming, for example

will shake people out of their torpor. But at what cost by then?

[karmaqueen]

3. You are so right!

I was at a cook out this past weekend. Most of the people there were "not into politics." Two people were Hannity fans, they just like his look and how he is "all American" ug! There was one really liberal couple, but they had never heard of Air America Radio, was not knowledgeable at all on so many of the issues that are important to us, they do hate this administration though and will vote, at least there was some hope there. I think politics just get in the way for most people. I had someone say that they only care about things that have to do with them,they are BIG sports fans. They did not want to be bored with my political talk. I guess the football draft will help them when they try to retire and can't because of no health insurance. I think it is fine to interested in many things but why can't people see it only takes a little time to find out what is going on around them.

[Subdivisions]

4. C'mon people! I want some ideas on this!

Thank you to those who've already posted.

For the rest of you, don't make me keep bumping this up. I respect each and every one of you and your opinions. This is a real problem for me. This is a real problem for those I care about that don't care about it themselves. My wife said, "I'm not interested. That's why I have you...to keep up with that stuff for me. When you say it's time to go, we'll go." To which I replied: "Does that include allowing me to decide your vote or donning a flak-vest, helmet and gun?" to which she replied "Sure, hon."

If you can't even answer my question, how the hell are we ever going to form a cohesive plan to stop the assualt on our freedoms and the United States Constitution?

WE ONLY HAVE A COUPLE MORE MONTHS FOR GOD'S SAKE!

To me, there is only one answer - REVOLUTION! Am I wrong? And if so, how do we turn the lemmings from the brink in time?

Is this not the most important election in this country's history? How are we going to convince people to pay attention?

C'MON!

[electropop]

9. Simple. Talk to them. Drop a few surprises into conversation.

Be prepared to back your claims with URLS or other checkable info. Easy ones:

When discussing election theft, mention the GAO report.

When discussing the purpose of the Iraq war, mention the price of gas, and point out that of all the possible explanations, it's the only one that's turned out to be correct. $3.00/gallon? Mission accomplished!

When talking about LIHOP/MIHOP, mention the August 6th PDB.

The key is, skeptics can easily check these things for themselves.

[dalaigh lllama]

15. That's my strategy, too

I made my first convert to the world of "WTF are they doing!!!" with the buried story of Halliburton "disappearing" several billions dollars in Iraq. The person I told didn't believe me, so we googled it together and they were amazed and angry that this hadn't made the "news." I usually share things a tidbit at a time with folks, not controversially, but conversationally.
And don't despair that folks are that oblivious. I read once that a population can usually be divided into roughly three parts on any issue: one third pro, one third con, and one third neutral. That's how it was during the American revolution, and I'm guessing that's how it is now. It's that last third we need to concentrate on, and more and more of them are getting pretty P.O.ed.

[blue cat]

16. I can't cheer you up

My family tells me that I'm too radical, and that they don't care or believe that there is anything wrong at all. Last time I brought up the voting machines, my sister said that first we bitched about the chads, and now the machines. I told her that I wouldn't bring up politics anymore, but that I would take the anger and hurt to my brave that she didn't at least listen to me.

[electropop]

21. Explain to your sister that the purpose of the chad manipulation

was to usher in the machines. It's part of the same plan.

Send her to read the GAO report (and these other MSM stories):

Here is a tiny sampling of articles from reputable organizations on election problems. At the bottom is the official GAO report confirming some of the problems. I have not even included anything on the crooked secretaries of state such as Blackwell in Ohio (committed numerous offenses to manipulate the 2004 election in which, by the way, he was also the Bush Ohio campaign chair).

Be sure to look at the original web page; the graphic contains some important information.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2006/03/16/GR2006031600213.html
How To Steal an Election
It's easier to rig an electronic voting machine than a Las Vegas slot machine, says University of Pennsylvania visiting professor Steve Freeman. That's because Vegas slots are better monitored and regulated than America's voting machines, Freeman writes in a book out in July that argues, among other things, that President Bush may owe his 2004 win to an unfair vote count. We'll wait to read his book before making a judgment about that. But Freeman has assembled comparisons that suggest Americans protect their vices more than they guard their rights, according to data he presented at an October meeting of the American Statistical Association in Philadelphia.


Here's another:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/21/AR2006012101051_pf.html
As Elections Near, Officials Challenge Balloting Security
In Controlled Test, Results Are Manipulated in Florida System
By Zachary Goldfarb
Special to The Washington Post
Sunday, January 22, 2006; A06
As the Leon County supervisor of elections, Ion Sancho's job is to make sure voting is free of fraud. But the most brazen effort lately to manipulate election results in this Florida locality was carried out by Sancho himself.
Four times over the past year Sancho told computer specialists to break in to his voting system. And on all four occasions they did, changing results with what the specialists described as relatively unsophisticated hacking techniques. To Sancho, the results showed the vulnerability of voting equipment manufactured by Ohio-based Diebold Election Systems, which is used by Leon County and many other jurisdictions around the country.
Sancho's most recent demonstration was last month. Harri Hursti, a computer security expert from Finland, manipulated the "memory card" that records the votes of ballots run through an optical scanning machine.
Then, in a warehouse a few blocks from his office in downtown Tallahassee, Sancho and seven other people held a referendum. The question on the ballot:
"Can the votes of this Diebold system be hacked using the memory card?"
Two people marked yes on their ballots, and six no. The optical scan machine read the ballots, and the data were transmitted to a final tabulator. The result? Seven yes, one no.
"Was it possible for a disgruntled employee to do this and not have the elections administrator find out?" Sancho asked. "The answer was yes."...

And another:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/12/us/12vote.html?ex=1305086400&en=5b3554a76aad524a&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
New Fears of Security Risks in Electronic Voting Systems
By MONICA DAVEY
Published: May 12, 2006
CHICAGO, May 11 — With primary election dates fast approaching in many states, officials in Pennsylvania and California issued urgent directives in recent days about a potential security risk in their Diebold Election Systems touch-screen voting machines, while other states with similar equipment hurried to assess the seriousness of the problem.
"It's the most severe security flaw ever discovered in a voting system," said Michael I. Shamos, a professor of computer science at Carnegie Mellon University who is an examiner of electronic voting systems for Pennsylvania, where the primary is to take place on Tuesday.
Officials from Diebold and from elections' offices in numerous states minimized the significance of the risk and emphasized that there were no signs that any touch-screen machines had been tampered with. But computer scientists said the problem might allow someone to tamper with a machine's software, some saying they preferred not to discuss the flaw at all for fear of offering a roadmap to a hacker.
"This is the barn door being wide open, while people were arguing over the lock on the front door," said Douglas W. Jones, a professor of computer science at the University of Iowa, a state where the primary is June 6.
The latest concern about the touch-screen machines was only the newest chapter in an emerging political and legal fight around the country over voting machines. While some voting officials defend the ease of touch-screens (similar to A.T.M.'s), some advocacy groups argue that optical scan machines, using paper ballots, are far more secure.
The wave of high-tech voting machines was prompted by the 2000 election in Florida, which spotlighted the problems of old-fashioned punch card ballots. But the machines that soon followed have spurred division. Here in Chicago, where voters used both touch-screen and optical-scan systems in a March primary, it took officials a week to tally all the votes because of technical problems and human errors, touching off a flurry of criticism over the Sequoia Voting Systems equipment...

And another:
http://www.eurekareporter.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?ArticleID=6504
Area voting machines could have flaws
by Shane Mizer, 12/16/2005
 
AccuVote machines used in Humboldt County elections may be vulnerable to hacking, according to a recent test in Florida.

The machines succumbed to security expert tampering in a Leon County, Fla., test observed by elections supervisor Ion Sancho.

In a Wednesday press release from Sancho following a Tuesday test hack demonstration by Finnish security expert Harri Hursti and security expert Herbert Thompson of Diebold’s voting system, Sancho said Leon County will no longer use voting machine systems from Diebold Inc., “due to contractual nonperformance and security design issues.”

“I don’t know why any election official would allow anyone to have access to their voting system,” Humboldt County Elections Manager Lindsey McWilliams said, criticizing the Leon County test.

One of the nation’s leading vendors of voting machine systems and automatic teller machines, Ohio-based Diebold also supplies many of California’s counties, including Humboldt County, with its voting software and machines.

A similar hack test demonstration was scheduled in California for Nov. 30, but was postponed after security expert Hursti announced he could not attend. Although California Secretary of State Bruce McPherson has not provided an exact date, the California test will most likely occur before Jan. 1, his staff said.

McPherson had no comments with regard to the Leon County voting system hacking demonstration.

“We’ll be evaluating our voting system on a case-by-case basis,” Secretary of State Press Secretary Jennifer Kerns said.

According to the Leon County press release, Diebold’s built-in security failed to prevent Hursti from tampering with the AccuVote-Optical Scan memory card installed in AccuVote machines.

The memory card, which retains voting results, is used in transferring the votes to the Global Election Management System central tabulator.

After Hursti doctored the outcome of the simulated test, the GEMS central tabulator was unable to recognize that a security breach had occurred.

Witnesses at the Leon County demonstration included Florida Fair Elections Coalition Director Susan Pynchon, security expert Thompson and Black Box Voting investigators Bev Harris and Kathleen Wynne.

Black Box Voting, a nonpartisan election watchdog headquartered in Seattle, has been monitoring the security of voting systems, specifically Diebold, since founder Harris stumbled onto an unprotected Diebold Web site in 2003 and proceeded to download approximately 40,000 of their documents and files...
another:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/05/01/national/01VOTE.html?ex=1398744000&en=322af40499b8657e&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND

High-Tech Voting System Is Banned in California
By JOHN SCHWARTZ

Published: May 1, 2004


California has banned the use of more than 14,000 electronic voting machines made by Diebold Inc. in the November election because of security and reliability concerns, Kevin Shelley, the California secretary of state, announced yesterday. He also declared 28,000 other touch-screen voting machines in the state conditionally "decertified" until steps are taken to upgrade their security.
Mr. Shelley said that he was recommending that the state's attorney general look into possible civil and criminal charges against Diebold because of what he called "fraudulent actions by Diebold."


http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2005/323/1/36
GAO report documents how easy it is to hack the vote
by Bob Fitrakis
in Journal issue November-December 2005
November 15, 2005

Nearly a year after senior Judiciary Committee Democrat John Conyers of Michigan asked the Government Accountability Office (GAO) to investigate malfunctioning voting machines during the November 2, 2004 presidential election, the nonpartisan agency’s report reveals serious flaws with electronic voting. The House Judiciary Committee received “more than 57,000 complaints” following Bush’s re-election, according to CNN.

The GAO report found that, “some of concerns about electronic voting machines have been realized and have caused problems with recent elections, resulting in the loss and miscount of votes.”

From the actual GAO report:

http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05956.pdf

efficient election process, numerous entities have raised concerns about
their security and reliability, citing instances of weak security controls,
system design flaws, inadequate system version control, inadequate
security testing, incorrect system configuration, poor security
management, and vague or incomplete voting system standards, among
other issues. For example, studies found (1) some electronic voting
systems did not encrypt cast ballots or system audit logs, and it was
possible to alter both without being detected; (2) it was possible to alter the
files that define how a ballot looks and works so that the votes for one
candidate could be recorded for a different candidate; and (3) vendors
installed uncertified versions of voting system software at the local level. It
is important to note that many of the reported concerns were drawn from
specific system makes and models or from a specific jurisdiction’s election,
and that there is a lack of consensus among election officials and other
experts on the pervasiveness of the concerns. Nevertheless, some of these
concerns were reported to have caused local problems in federal
elections—resulting in the loss or miscount of votes—and therefore merit
attention.

Many more articles:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/21/AR2006012101051_pf.html
http://www.failureisimpossible.com/agenda/votingmachines.htm
http://news.yahoo.com/fc/us/us_elections/news_stories/6

[blue cat]

35. God bless you!

sent.

[porphyrian]

5. I don't know the answer, but I'm not quitting yet.

If we quit, we hand them victory.

[mother earth]

6. As dismal as you feel, you have to forge ahead and know that

we are making gains on the bums. This bubble cannot go on indefinitely and that good will triumph, it is inevitable.

Once the house of cards starts falling it will be a domino effect, until it all comes down. You cannot change the world, all you can do is be a voice of reason and live your life accordingly.

[tbyg52]

7. I used to think...

...when I lived in California (no longer, sadly, and I'll never be able to afford to go back), that the little voter pamphlet things we got in the mail from the guv'mint were sort of cheating. For every issue they'd have an analysis and statements from both sides, and each candidate got to put in a statement. My reaction at the time was "don't you think we read newspapers?????," but thinking back I guess maybe they were right about that. My current though is "well, it's better than nothing, and maybe we should have them here in Texas."

[SoCalDem]

8. Ask them who won American Idol..

We are being "entertained" into oblivion..

the only time we are forced obliged to learn anything is when we are kids in school (and most kids claim to hate school) or when we are being trained at a workplace, so why would most people know about difficult to understand issues?

Kids who don't get to go to school (poor 3rd world countries) CRAVE knowledge because they are denied it.. Our society treats school as if it were a "four letter word".. Kids get picked on, take boring classes, have mean or uncaring teachers (MOST are great..but the bad ones get a lot of press) and most kids cannot wait to get OUT of school..

They are then dumped into a workforce , unprepared, and they are on the treadmill for the next 45 years...

It's easy to see why people numb themselves with mindless entertainment..

This is GOOD news for an authoritarian adminsitration... They can proceed without much interference from the "public".. Why? They don't know what's going on...they know but they don't understand it.. they think something's going on, but the beer's cold and Southpark's on..

[marlakay]

10. Go through the same thing

My husband won't talk politics since the last election and even though my friends agree with me about the war and the environment they don't want to talk about it.

People want to forget what is really happening and hope that by some miracle we can trust our government to take care of us.

I really don't think people will wake up until all their freedoms are taken away or until we have war in our cities in our streets. Then they would wake up. Just like on 9-11.

Every time I watch the news now I know most of it is fake, wind machines with a movie playing in the back to look like they are really there. Its all about show...politics, news, jobs, doesn't matter.

I moved out of CA and bay area because we retired but also wanted to make more of a difference in the country. It was too easy in a city mostly democrat to feel safe and wonder why the world was all red. Now I live in a 50/50 small city with a lot of conservatives, my contractor is a die hard republican. I learned a lot from him about why they believe what they do.

Mostly they are brainwashed by fox and beliefs that are twisted with religion that makes them feel guilty to vote otherwise. Then like you said most non voting people just don't want to deal with it unless it is in their face.

[spanone]

11. For some reason Americans learned to trust their government.

Why, I don't know. But this cabal has exploited that beyond belief. By the time the public realizes what has happened, it will be too late.

[petgoat]

14. Americans learned to trust their government

Part of it was that government misdeeds are of the nature of conspiracy, and since the
60's assassinations we've had drummed into us the conflicting memes of "conspiracies
don't exist and only crazy people believe them" and "everybody knows JFK was killed
by a conspiracy."

A double bind like that is the stuff of a national case of schizophrenia, and political
catatonia is the result.

[earth mom]

12. My husband was getting sick of hearing it from me too...

until I said to him that it's all a matter of connecting the dots. I then listed every damn evil thing the * criminals have done the past 5 + years and then said: "THIS IS WHY I AM FREAKED OUT! THIS IS WHY I AM SO DAMN WORRIED ABOUT OUR COUNTRY AND OUR FUTURE!"

Hubby then got really quiet and with a very worried expression on his face said, "I get it now."

So...
Connect the dots for people ya'll. They will sit up and take notice!

[petgoat]

13. If you don't bring it up first, how can you expect them to tell you

what they think?

Don't discuss politics or religion is the motto of just-getting-along
with acquaintances. You might be surprised at some of the opinions
you'll hear when you talk to people.

Hang in there.

[Subdivisions]

33. Thank you, I will hang in there...

...despite their tendency to shrug me off.

[European Socialist]

17. People think gov't is like the weather. Nothin you can do about it.

[Cobalt-60]

18. They keep pushing

because there's no reaction.
No one is in the streets. And as long as there's no public disorder, they'll just keep going.
We need to make it understood that if there's the slightest whiff of electoral cheating there will be trouble.
We're up against thugs that understand nothing but force.
If we're not willing to deploy it, they'll just keep stealing.

[Subdivisions]

32. I truly feel...

...that we are going to have to rise up at some point. But, will we have time to explain to the sheep why they should join us in the streets? I don't think so. After all, we only have 3 more months to get them to care and then to understand.

[Clark2008]

34. Actually, there is reaction - look at all the protests we've seen

... ON BLOGS.

There is enormous reaction against this cabal's policies, but the corporate media "poo-poo's" it as "a couple of dozen" protesters.

It's an eminence front.

[BooScout]

19. I figured this out quite a while ago.......

A couple of friends, my husband and I were discussing how bad it all was how it was so depressing what was going on in America, etc............and my very best friend in the world in all seriousness looked at us and told us to quit reading the papers and watching the news. Told us they never watched the news and were very happy.....I knew then it was time for us to leave. America that is. A couple of years later we were gone.

[Subdivisions]

29. People are so absorbed..

with their own agendas that there's no room for outside stimulation. So, don't watch the news or read the papers and you'll be safe. Don't bother voting because your vote doesn't matter.

It's this sort of apathy and ignorance that resulted in the current crisis.

I feel like screaming.

[Alexodin]

20. I have had some success when I get the blank I don't care about

politics look, or, it will all even out eventually bit, by shouting,"This is not politics as usual! I'm not talking about your father's boring mundane politics I'm telling you our democracy is in crises!" Then I plant a few seeds about electronic voting machines and the possibility of real civil unrest if they try to steal another election. That usually gets the eyes to open wide.

I'm careful not to pile drive it home at first. I find that people want to know more and ask me whenever they see me for more information and thats a great opportunity to educate them as to how to educate themselves. I have had great success with this, I call it "the shock treatment".

Its important to convey urgent distress and with me its no act I assure you. For some that do not have much time to cruise the web I send them little bulletins which are much appreciated. After a few weeks they are on board big time.

[Subdivisions]

27. I love the bulletins idea...

the problem with that is when they fail to find a funny punch line or a funny image in the email.

But all I can do is try.

[survivor999]

22. Some smartass math. Sorry.

When one says that 99.99% of the people they know do X, one implies that there is at least one person they know who does not do X (corresponding to that .01%; otherwise, it would be 100%). Now, the smallest number of people one must know so that .01% is ONE person (not an impossible fraction of a person) is 10,000. That way, 9999 people don't do X, and 1 does X. Not sure how many people know 10,000 people to stat with.
I don't. And, BTW, are you that .01%? If so, you'd need to know at least 20,000 people, so that there is at least another one (besides yourself) not doing X.
Ok, hate me now :)

[Subdivisions]

26. LOL

I don't know anywhere near 10,000 people, survivor999. And my mind is too numb with worry over current events to check your math.

The .01% was credit given to one brother-in-law who seems to know what's going on until he starts talking and then it becomes apparent that he's watching...but he's not listening.

Unfortunately, that's about it in my Friends & Family network.

[survivor999]

28. Hey, I'm joking ...

:) I agree with the substance of your post!

[Subdivisions]

31. I know you were joking...

...re-reading it, part of my response could be interpreted as terse, but I assure you it was given in a spirit of mirth! :D

[Armstead]

23. People have to feel that they have a chance to affect the outcome

It's a chicken-and-egg problem. People do care about issues. Politics is supposed to deal with issues. But when politicians fail to really address issues, people become apathetic about politics. Whixch only makes politics worse....

The simple answer, IMO, is that at some point, liberals and progressives have to break that cycle.Politicians have to actually start talking about the things people really do care about, and -- most important -- offer actual solutions.

The big problem is that both political parties have becopme so divorced from the real concerns and beliefs of people that many people don;t feel that politics makes any difference.

That fatalism is the result of failure of political leadership at all levels.

Look at gas prices, for example. Most people are pissed, frustrated and scaredf about the rise in prices.

BUT what politicians are really addressing it? How many politicians are actually proposing anything that might make a difference? Which political party is actually representing the interests of consumers?

Except for a few scattered exceptions, NO ONE IS. All politicians have bought into the conservative mantra that all markets are sacred. They boith echo the right wing position that it would be "inappropriate" for the government to step in and impose regulation on prices.

Therefore, why should the average person care which politician is in office? Or which political party, if the Democrats are failing to afddress their concerns?

[laruemtt]

24. same here. i can't even bring up the subject

of politics or world events. they just glaze over and want to go back to other talk.

[TahitiNut]

25. Bread (fast food) and circuses (MTV, MLB, etc.)

We're obese and brain-benumbed with distractions galore. Libraries close, schools close, and infotainment abounds. "Reality" is reduced to a TV show. War is nothing but a program option - those who don't like it merely change the channel (the limit of "participation" for most).

[dogday]

30. I was one of those people

until the 2000 election, then I saw everything in a different light.. The more I searched for the truth, the more truth I encountered, the more I saw, all made me realize what is happening in this country, and what the truth really is....