Excuse me, but why would Iran try to pick a fight with Israel???

[originalpckelly]

1 nuke against 200 nukes, that doesn't seem like a winnable battle. Someone please tell me why we are so worried?

Not only that, but if Iran fucks with US, we have about 2,000. Who in their right mind would do such a thing? The Ayatollahs (the people really in control over there) are nuts, but they aren't so religious as to kill off their own nation. They deal with the STATE SPONSORED ATHEISTS in North Korea, so this can't be about religion. Aside from that, I can't think of a reason Iran would take the chances, it would mean complete and total self annihilation.

[Snivi Yllom]

1. aaahhh, but you miss the subtlety of what is happening

Iran is using Hezbollah as a proxy to pick a fight and harass Israel into weakening Israel.

[BillZBubb]

14. Baloney.

That's Israeli propaganda. Israel is using Hezbollah to destabilize the region and pull the US further in.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

18. Do You Believe Iran Is Arming And Instigating Hezbollah To Attack Israel?

eom

[BillZBubb]

23. No, I do not.

Hezbollah is doing what Hezbollah wants to do.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. Where Did They Get All These Rockets?

eom

[originalpckelly]

29. Is that a Katyusha or are you just happy to see me?

:shrug:

[Snivi Yllom]

37. Santa Claus!

yeah, that's the ticket...


or how's this for a blame the joooooos conspiracy

Israel built and smuggled the Katyusha to shoot at it self, to piss off its neighbors, so they attack, and Israel has to fight back, so they smuggle more rockets......


Keeehrrrrist some people will not take the blinders off ever.

[in_cog_ni_to]

42. and do they pull all that money out of their ass? It takes MEGA $ to stock

10,000 rockets. Where's their MOOLA come from? WHO funds them?

[Ian David]

48. They're mostly improvised devices made in basements

Qassam rocket
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Qassam rockets)
Jump to: navigation, search

The neutrality of this article is disputed.
Please see the discussion on the talk page.

The Qassam rocket (also Kassam) is a simple home-made steel rocket filled with explosives, produced by the Palestinian Hamas movement. Three models have been used. Although they are sometimes referred to as missiles, they are free-flight artillery rockets lacking any guidance system.

The Gaza Strip, from which all but one of the Qassams have been launched, is surrounded by a security barrier and is free of Israeli soldiers. Palestinian militants have therefore had difficulty launching the rockets from outside Gaza. The Qassam is intended to travel over the barrier and strike Israeli targets outside the strip.

History of the Qassam

Qassam rockets are named after the Izz ad-Din al-Qassam Brigades, the military branch of Hamas. According to Hamas, the Qassam rocket was first developed by Nidal Fat'hi Rabah Farahat and produced under the direction of Adnan al-Ghoul, the "Father of the Qassam" who was killed by the Israeli army in October 2004.

Qassams were first fired at Israeli targets in October 2001. However, due to their short range, all landed inside the Gaza Strip. The first Qassam to land in Israeli territory was launched on February 10, 2002. The first time an Israeli city was hit was on March 5, 2002, when two rockets struck Sderot. The total number of Qassam rockets launched exceeded 1000 by June 9, 2006. Large numbers of rockets began landing in the Western Negev in March of 2006: 49 in March, 64 in April, 46 in May, and over 83 by the end of June. This prompted protests and a demonstration in the town of Sderot, which has been a major target.

More:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qassam_rockets

[The Magistrate]

55. The So-Called Qassam, Sir

Has no relation to the weapons employed by Hezbollah in the north of the country. These are a range of standard artillery rockets of military specfication, the shorter range types, innaccurately known as "Katyusha", being manufactured in both Iran and Syria, and the longer range types being made in Iran. Rocket projectiles with a range of thirty miles, weighing up to half a ton and carrying payloads in the hundred pound range, that fly to a circular radius of probability of roughly a quarter mile at full range, are not simply whomped up in a basement from parts accqired at a local hardware store....

[Ian David]

56. Thank you for the correction. I wouldn't want to be standing under one

I have very little doubt that those weapons are coming from Iran and/or Syria.

My only doubt is because this information is coming from a government who said it was a "slam dunk" that Saddam had Mobile Bio-Weapons labs that they knew were actually giant sand-filled Porta-potties.

Do we have independent confirmation on this?

[The Magistrate]

57. The Ties Between Hezbollah, Sir, And Iran And Syria

Are of very long and public standing, and until recently none of the parties involved bothered to deny them.

The only things at issue, to my view, are what weight to put on them. Mere supply of weapons is hardly grounds for war, after all, so anyone urging they were would have to accept, for example, the revers, and allow that U.S. supply of weapons to Israel is grounds for war against the U.S. by that country's committed foes: sauce for goose and gander, and all that. Nor does it seem to me at all certain Hezbollah acted in this at the direction or behest of either of its sponsors: Nasrallah has his own reasons, and seeks his own gains in prestige and following. Merely because someone's action may be useful in the event to someone else hardly demonstrates that someone else commanded it, and must be held responsible for it.

[Ian David]

58. I wish I could dounload you into my Palmpilot

You, Sir, would make a great reference tool for everyone to keep in their pocket.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

62. Bad idea... We need him here. Besides,

I don't think he'd fit in your Palm Pilot.

[Ian David]

63. We could clone him and create a Human-Animal Hybrid? n/t

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

67. Okay... The Magistrate Manimal... Hmmm, that might be marketable.

[BillZBubb]

52. Prove your assertion, don't ask me disprove it.

You are using a typical evasive tactic that propagandists love. Make a wild assertion which may contain some grain of truth, then challenge those who deny it to disprove your statement.

First, you made a double statement along the lines of Iran both armed and got Hezbollah to attack Israel. Both are dubious. Prove either one. You can't.

As to the rockets, they could come from anywhere. Hezbollah gets funding worldwide from a number of sources including Iran. They could easily use some of that cash to buy weapons on the black market. The weapons market is huge an obsolete weaponry like the rockets Hezbollah is using are widely available.

[The Stranger]

65. Where did Israel get tanks, bombers, F-16's, missles to kill innocents?

U.S. tax dollars maybe?

[Ian David]

39. If President Gore or President Kerry told me that, I'd believe it

However, since our current administration is doing a heckuva job making us safer, I tend to doubt that this is a Slam Dunk.

If some non-partisan agency or government confirmed that, I'd believe it.

But if it's our own crack-team of intelligence assets who discovered "The Homeless Miami Guy Conspiracy to Bomb Chicago"(TM), and declared Saddam's Porta-potties to be Mobile Weapons Labs...

I'd say it's plausible-- even likely-- but I won't buy into it just because OUR government says it's true.

[The Stranger]

64. Not to bother you with the facts, but Israel has invaded Lebanon, not vice

versa.

[Snivi Yllom]

34. Israel is making Hezbollah shoot rockets at it's cities?

I don't buy that lame blame the joooooooos conspiracy.

[YDogg]

2. Depending on one's belief's, self annihilation isn't the end.

Or so bad. A kooky rethug I know is rooting for "the rapture" and is pretty psyched about what is going on in the ME.

[originalpckelly]

6. Last time I checked the Ayatollahs were all a bunch of old men...

makes me wonder if they really believe all that BS they spew.

COMMON SENSE:
If these people were really so religious, it would be a complete affront for them to deal with the North Korean communist atheists.

[Nikki Stone 1]

13. The enemy of my enemy is my friend

Older than religion, that.

[msmcghee]

59. The one mark of any true-believer . .

. . is that they always believe their own bullshit.

[Poll_Blind]

3. Iran has no nuclear weapons. Israel ~200, U.S. ~5,000 nuclear weapons.n/t

PB

[jrd200x]

4. Iran knows no one will use Nukes

and they know Israel will be forced into "restraining" themselves.

Israel, the only country in the world that isn't allowed to kill their enemies when they've been attacked.

If it were the US Lebanon would be GONE by now.

[originalpckelly]

11. We and I suppose Israel have a no-first-use policy...

but if someone nukes us or Israel, they are going to be pitied by people in the Stone Age.

[BillZBubb]

17. When did we have a no-first-use policy? That's NOT US policy.

Bushco has already thought about using nukes on Iran.

[originalpckelly]

22. Excuse me, unprovoked use.

Not no-first-use.

[wakeme2008]

30. US NEVER had a "no-first-use" policy...

:evilgrin:

[originalpckelly]

31. See post #22...sorry.(nt)

[nickinSTL]

12. Israel, the only country in the world that isn't allowed to kill...

Lebanon IS NOT HEZBOLLAH.

Hezbollah has set up in Lebanon, but all those Lebanese civilians being killed? They are innocents who have nothing to do with the attacks on Israel.

[deaniac21]

5. What if Iran (a known sponsor of terrorism) were to give a small

nuclear device to a group like say, Hezbollah, who then put it on a ship headed for New York harbor. Iran would have no idea of how all those people got vaporized....

[originalpckelly]

8. Well, if we know Hezbollah is sponsored by Iran and Syria...

and Iran is the only one out of those two who is supposedly developing nuclear weapons, wouldn't we know to nuke Iran?

[deaniac21]

16. No. They could give a device to virtually anyone. You don't

get the point. We need to take a pole!

[originalpckelly]

19. You're grasping at straws...

and it shows.

Who else would they give it to?

[deaniac21]

21. Any enemy of the US. Duh.

[Maiden England]

27. What kind of pole would we take?

maybe this one?



:crazy:

[deaniac21]

49. No, this one

[eFriendly]

25. Hezbollah has not threatened the U.S.

So why would Hezbollah ever think of sending a nuclear bomb (or whatever) to NY? Oh, that's right... You're only spreading more propaganda. :eyes:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

7. Saber rattling for regional consumption.

“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” H.L. Mencken

Iranian politicians aren't a helluva lot different from American, Israeli, Syrian, or most other politicians.

[stillcool]

9. I keep on thinking about Ollie North...

and the Israeli government officials involvement in those arms deals to Iran. I wonder...is there anyone who's not flying blind?

[noonwitch]

10. Because their leader is a looney fanatic?!

I hope the Iranian citizens take their country back from the religious fanatics almost as much as I hope we can do the same in the next two election cycles.

[originalpckelly]

15. Do you even know how the government of Iran works?

:shrug:

It might be helpful if you knew Ahmadinejad has absolutely no control over the military of Iran. He can say what he wants, but he can't do a damn thing without the approval of the Supreme Leader.

[BillZBubb]

20. Olmert is a fanatic, but he's not loony.

I hope the Israeli citizens can take their country back from the expansionist fanatics--oh wait, most Israeli's support that. Never mind.

[alfredo]

24. Internal politics. Despots need enemies.

Just like bush, Iranian leaders are uniting their base using fear and hatred.

[originalpckelly]

28. DING DING DING, we have a winner!

[alfredo]

33. Thank you Thank you Thank you.

Let's do a poll of how many dictatorships are run by Liberals and how many by Conservatives.

[Ian David]

40. It sure takes the pressure off them to feed their own poor people...

when they can scapegoat someone else.

""Pay no attention to my fabulous marble palaces, that I purchased with money made by selling the oil beneath your feet. Look! The Jews have Palestine!"


As long as the billionaire sheiks, princes and sultans can scapegoat The Jews, they think that their citizens won't turn their gazes upon the opulent palaces of their rulers and ask, "Why don't they share some of the wealth with all of us?"

See:

America's Roadmap to The Apocalypse
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2747646

[alfredo]

44. Also read John Dean's new book "Conservatives Without Conscience."

He nails the junta big time.

[Ian David]

46. I just bought that book at the airport last week. Haven't read it yet

But I did see his interview on The Daily Show.

[alfredo]

50. It's well worth reading and passing on. Do tell all your contacts about

the book. It is an important piece of reporting.

[endarkenment]

32. Iran did not pick a fight with Israel and has no nukes.

Capture and trade episodes between Hezbollah and the IDF have been a regular occurrence. The question is why did Israel choose to start a general war in the middle east at this time.

[ComerPerro]

35. They wouldn't. But saying so gives us justification to go to Iran

[librechik]

36. silly, it just looks like Israel. It's really us.

That's why we will attack Syria. I mean THEY will attack Syria. Because Iran is next.

But Iran is really China.

Now does it all make sense?

[endarkenment]

45. Yup thats about the sum of it.

We are so screwed. 'We' being the peace loving regular people of this planet.

[Ian David]

47. Fuck that. Venezuela is looking at us funny. n/t

[Ian David]

38. Iran is behaving like our College Republican Chickenhawks

They're all for fighting against Israel, so long as someone else is doing the dying.

It's a proxy war.

The Mid-East is willing to fight down to the last Palestinian, and the American Christian Right is willing to fight down to the last Jew.

See:

America's Roadmap to The Apocalypse
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2747646

[WilliamPitt]

41. By picking a fight with Israel

they are picking a fight with us. That's the fight they want, by proxy, to be fought in no small measure in Iraq, where they own the government.

[Fleshdancer]

43. You know life sucks when we're comparing nuke numbers

and when we're discussing which nuke lovin' country is nutty enough to throw the first nuke (or the last for that matter) then it's a good sign that ALL countries involved have gone completely insane.

This whole situation is just ridiculous. We're headed toward a World War and instead of asking "why?", most politicians seem to be concerned with "how?". It makes my skin crawl. Instead of focusing on why a country should go to war, the leaders might want to take a minute and think about what would happen after the war. Will anyone be more secure?

[ladjf]

51. I can't figure out why the Iranian President doesn't keep his mouth

shut. Every public word is as though he's on Bush's payroll.

[BillZBubb]

53. Domestic politics.

It's always good politically in that part of the world to denounce Israel. And Israel keeps giving guys like him more ammunition all the time.

[ladjf]

68. Well, he's playing a very dangerous game. Bush is looking for

any excuse to move forward with the PNAC plan that includes attacking Iran. To some extent Saddam made the same error. By the time he realized his strategic mistakes and allowed the inspectors in it was too late. Bush told the inspectors to get out and them invaded.

If the Iranian President and the head of the Parliament don't clam up, they are going to find themselves "Lebanesed", that is their infrastructure bombed back to oblivion just as in Lebanon. Israel might even do the job if the U.S. will provide midair refueling for their fighters.

Mad men are running all of the countries mentioned in this post.

[leesa]

54. They wouldn't. This is why the US and Israel have had to try so hard to

provoke them into responding.

[LiberalEconomist]

60. Ya know, that is a very good question...

The Arab-Israeli conflict has grown from one of ethnicity to one of religion, which is baffling. Why? The Muslims insist that Jews and Christians are "people of the book." That they are to be respected etc. etc. My question is, what is the source of conflict between the Iranians and the Israelis? They don't share a common border. Persians do not identify with Arabs. So what then? Perhaps this hasn't a damned thing to do with the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Perhaps Israel is being used as a rallying point for the Shi-ites to make their mark on the Islamic world. There is an intra-religious war between the Saudi Wahabis and the Iranian Shi-ites that is being conducted through surrogates. Each of these Islamic super-powers are posturing against the other by using the United States and, especially, Israel as tennis courts.

[mmonk]

61. A different perspective of Iran during the current crisis

Seeking stabilization of the Lebanon situation.



http://fairuse.100webcustomers.com/fuj/nytimes104.htm

[scarletwoman]

66. Oh for heavens sakes! If you use logic and reason you'll ruin EVERYTHING!

We HAVE to be kept in a state of unthinking, unreasoning FEAR, by whatever boogeyman the Powers-That-Be can conjure up. It's what works best to control us, and to keep themselves in power. Not to mention, all the marvelous profits for the "defense" industry.

Frankly, I heartily wish that Iran DID have nuclear weapons capability -- it might have a welcome sobering effect on the neocon fear/warmongers.

sw