Areyou surprised every Democratic senator stands with Israel?

[gulfcoastliberal]

Must we purge every single dem who supports Israel's fight to exist?

FWIW, I disagree with the way Israel has handled Hezbollah. But they do have a right to exist,they are the most persecuted people in the history of humanity, and no spin will chage that historical fact.

So go ahead and have a pogrom of every Dem who supports Israel.

It makes me sick that so-called "liberals" hate Israel and its people.

[aquart]

1. Lieberman's support of Israel is NOT the issue.

But how completely disgusting that you frame it that way.

As for Schumer, supporting Bolton is NOT supporting Israel. It is supporting the policies that will destroy Israel.

I support Israel and I am outraged that Schumer will support Bolton using Israel as the excuse.

[jsamuel]

2. Nice spin. Put it on extra-fast cycle next time.

no one is getting "purged" for "supporting Israel's right to exist"

[Mandate My Ass]

dupe

[Mandate My Ass]

3. A pogrom?

What a vile, filthy thing to say.

[YOY]

4. Who here 'hates Israel and its people'?

Can you give us an example, or is this just a disjointed logical moment?

[cali]

13. Here's something from a current

thread that hasn't been deleted yet. Yesterday someone started a thread about how Jews were responsible for every evil on the planet. It was the second bizarre thread about Rothschilds and Jews really being Georgians, that was posted within a week. I've seen Bob Dylan referrred to as a heeb, accusations that Israelis were behind 9/11, and more. Most of these posts get whisked away. You don't want to believe there's any antisemitism on DU, that's up to you.

[YOY]

15. So where is the thread?

Link?

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[YOY]

23. Depending on how you view the tone of the poster

Or a posting that in and of itself is completely illogical and therefore a rhetorical question.

but you may be right. There is no way to know for certainty.

I don't really see the Rothchilde inflection there.

[cali]

26. What?

If you don't find that claiming that Israel controls the world, is classic bigotry, you may not know much about the subject. As for the thing about the Rothschild's, that was a thread posted yesterday that was completely erased.

[YOY]

34. I was trying to say that maybe the poster thought...

that the opening question was so ridiculous that he countered it with a ridiculous statement/question himself.

[jonnyblitz]

27. the false accusations far outnumber those instances though.

I see anti-arab racism from the Pro-Israel crowd, too.

[cali]

31. Well,

we see things differently. But we already know that. And yes, I've seen anti-Muslim comments. I always call people on it, but I've seen far, far more "jews control the world" shit, and other related comments, than I have seen anti-Arab or anti-Muslim comments. If you'd care to provide numerous examples, as I did of antisemitic remarks in my thread a couple of weeks ago, I'd be interested to see them.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Poll_Blind]

25. Pacifists are anti-Semites? What the hell, man!

PB

[catbert836]

37. That's the kind of ignorant sh*t

that doesn't even deserve a response.

[Scurrilous]

6. Dupe:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1798550

[ThomCat]

7. I'm not surprised at all.

Politicians are driven my money and influence. No matter how progressive they may claim to be, they live or die according to the big powers that fund and lobby them. Israel has a lot of power in American politics.

Too much money is circulated around in our relationship with Israel. Our defense industry would have a screaming shit fit if we backed off on supporting Israel even a little bit.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

8. No.

If they don't rally behind Israel they're risking Republicans attacking them as antisemites.

For example:

"It makes me sick that so-called "liberals" hate Israel and its people."

[k_jerome]

9. I pleasantly unsurprised. nt.

[partylessinOhio]

10. I am completely disgusted with the Democrats that stand blindly

for the outrageous killing and destruction that Israel continues in Lebanon.

Have they become so corrupt, so cold and so heartless that they will not see that this is evil and not justified?

[k_jerome]

11. yes, they are all so very evil and you are so very good. nt.

[laura888]

12. I consider politicians who blindly support Israel to be unpatriotic

Clearly, our policies regarding Israel were one of the causes of 9/11.

[jerry611]

16. We were being attacked by terrorists long before 9/11

In fact before 9/11...Hezbollah killed more Americans than any other terrorist organization.

There is a reason why we are taking Israel's side in this. We hate Hezbollah and wouldn't mind seeing them totally annihilated.

[treestar]

19. Huh? Wouldn't that be Al Qaeda?

[jerry611]

24. Hezbollah killed 250 US Marines in 1984 Beirut bombings

There is no way in hell we will ever negotiate with Hezbollah.

[Scurrilous]

28. The Japanese and the Chinese killed US Marines.

Do we negotiate with them?

[mazzarro]

40. Can You Give Us The Background Inforrmation

The US did no get involved in Lebanon out of the blue. What was the genesis of that involvement and why do you think - if there is any reason - Hezbollah attacked the US marines?

[laura888]

21. Americans who happened to be in the ME, not America

There's a difference.

And America has been supporting Israel blindly for a very long time.

[Norquist Nemesis]

14. "so-called "liberals" hate Israel and its people"

Must be the same Liberals that want to take away your guns, ban all prayer, will kill your children in the womb, and want to raise your taxes too!!!

*sigh*

[treestar]

18. BS, nobody "hates Israel" or its people

Playing the victim is getting so tiresome. The Israelis cannot just get away with anything at all because of their constant self pitying reference to persecution. Their "right" to exist is no better than that of any other country. The question is if they can. When they get so self pitying about being "surrounded by enemies" who "hate" them you start to wonder if they can. But if they can't survive without killing the neighboring civilians, one has to wonder.

And raising something like that as an issue does not make me a "supporter of Hezbollah" a "supporter of Terrorists" a "hater of Israel and its people" or any of that other bullshit.

[lumpy]

46. "Playing the victim is getting so tiresome."

I couldn't agree more with your post.

[Ignoramus]

20. They are opposing Lebanese people's right to exist

I oppose that. Supporting Lebanese people's right to exist isn't being "anti-Israel", whatever that would mean.

Pick a different pair of groups for analogy. If the US was obliterating a black area of Los Angeles, because the Crips carried out some vicious revenge attack in a white area, would you support Senators who came out supporting the bombing of Los Angelese, because they condemned the Crips?

[jonnyblitz]

22. it makes me sick that people come on here expecting

progressives to support this fucking racist war crime that is going on! :puke:

[in_cog_ni_to]

29. Nope. I'm not surprised and if you ask me

that makes anti-Israel 'Progressive' DUers 'out of the mainstream' and THEY need to find a party that fits THEM instead of trying to hijack ours. I think Pat Buchanan fits them well. He agrees with them and they LOVED his latest tirade over this issue.

"Pat Buchanan and the Progressives" It has a ring to it!

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jonnyblitz]

58. it is disgusting. nt

[shain from kane]

30. It is generally assumed that "they are the most persecuted people

in the history of humanity", but in terms of death and enslavement, I'm placing my bet on the African blacks. And they are suffering tremendously from AIDS, which origin has been questioned, at this current date.



From Wikipedia ---

"It is estimated that the Trans-Atlantic Slave trade involved some 30 million Africans from start to finish. Half of them died in Africa as a result of combat or waiting for months in coastal "factories". The slaves were then loaded into extremely cramped ships and given only minimal amounts of food and water. The horrific Middle Passage as it is called killed 3 million Africans as a result of torture, malnutrition, disease and even infighting between slaves of warring ethnic groups. Treatment improved little upon reaching their destination; Africans were herded into "Seasoning Camps" located throughout the Caribbean. Jamaica had one of the most brutal of these camps operated by the British. Before being shipped off to the mainland or even local plantations on the islands, the slaves were tortured into submission in an attempt to break the will to resist. Another 2 million died in these camps. By the end of the process, two Africans died for every one that successfully arrived, culminating in a minimum of 20 million dead over 351 years."

[NoPasaran]

32. No and I'm glad

To tell the truth, I would be very surprised if any of them came out as fans of the terroristic Hezbollah militia.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Balbus]

35. I've rarely been more proud of the Democratic party than these last

few weeks. :toast:

[atreides1]

36. Not really surprised by the Dems stand

There is nothing wrong with supporting a country's right to exist, what so wrong is refusing to admit that there is another side to the tale.

As for being the most persecuted people in the history of humanity, perhaps, but lets not forget the infighting, slavery, and being conquered by the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Persians, Alexander
the Great,and the Romans.

It wasn't until 313AD when the Edict of Milan legalized Christianity in the Roman Empire that the actual persecution began. And that persecution was led not by Muslims but by Christians.

In 622 the Muslims conquer Israel, in 638 under Muslim rule Jews are permitted to return to Jerusalem.

711 Muslim invasion of Spain leads to Jewish settlements in newly conquered areas. Jews become involved in trade and administration in the new Muslim kingdom.

1096 First Crusaders Massacre Jews in Rhineland

From 1096 the Jewish people suffered persecution by the Christian European nations, yet Jews under the rule of the Ottoman Empire develop due to religious toleration and economic opportunity.

1655 Jews Readmitted to England by Oliver Cromwell

From 1655 onward it was off and on, nothing that could be defined as a sustained effort, until 1935 and the passing of the Nuremberg Laws by the Nazis.

1936 - 1937 Stalin Purges

Stalin attempts to destroy Jewish culture in Russia; Jewish schools, theaters, and publications are closed.

Historically it's been Christians who have been the main persecutors, but then again Christians have pretty much persecuted everyone not like them. Not all Christians, but Christians none the less.

[mazzarro]

38. Totally a BS spin

I am not surprised but profoundly disappointed by the democratic politicians in Washington DC.

[LWolf]

39. Bullshit.

Dissent with U.S., and particularly, Democratic, support of Israel's military action is not "hate" of Israel or Israelis.

I can disagree with someone, and speak freely about that disagreement, without "hating" them.

As far as politics go, it is my right to withhold support from representatives who represent an opposing point of view, regardless of what party they hail from. That's not "hate," and it's not a "pogrom."

Israel, Lebanon, Pakistan, and the rest of the middle east all have a right to exist, independent of their neighbors. Israel's right is neither more, nor less, than the rest.

[lies and propaganda]

42. im surprised a lot mf's support Israel.

I think if we changed the two countries to Poland (I) and Switzerland, we would all be screaming that poland is going way too fucking far.
I just dont see what their fighting for? The religious, sacred land that they spill blood on daily, pssst.

[burythehatchet]

43. Money can buy anything

except peace

[warrens]

44. It's political suicide to criticize Israel

And your take on people "hating" Israel and its people is way off the mark. The vast majority here support Israel's right to exist. It's when you get to indiscriminant slaughter of civilians, theft of Palestinian land for religious lunatic outposts, and that kind of stuff that we get just a little picky about Israel. And we know that 60 percent of Israelis agree with us, but can't break the stranglehold the far right has on the Knesset and hence the prime minister.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jrd200x]

47. YES! You are so right on! I'm ashamed of being a liberal when I read

this board and all it's hatered for Israel when it defends itself.

[Name removed]

53. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[muriel_volestrangler]

55. Can you give us an example of a liberal opinion of yours? (n/t)

[earth mom]

50. Most of the Dems in office have been a major disappointment

over many issues, not just this one. I want most of em out for more reasons that just this one. Yeah, it's past time to clean house! :mad:

And one last thing: The killing of innocents should NOT be supported! I don't give a fuck what nation it is! That's the bottom line!!! :grr:

[ComerPerro]

51. for a persecuted people, they sure like bullying

[T Town Jake]

54. Excellent post. K & R.

:thumbsup:

[KoKo]

56. I'm surprised that the rush to issue a statement came when Diplomacy

and Not Taking Sides would have been more what I would have expected. I thought it hurt our ability to be seen as a Referee in the conflict.

It seemed like Grandstanding to me...and a finger in the eye of Lebanon.

Just my opinion.

[muriel_volestrangler]

57. It depends on what you mean by "stand with Israel"

In your first sentence, you equate it with supporting Israel's "fight to exist". No, it doesn't surprise me that all Democratic senators support Israel's existence, and would support it if a situation in which that existence was threatened ever occurred.

But Israel's existence is not currently threatened. It has treaties with Egypt and Jordan, its neighbours with the largest borders with it; other Arab nations have accepted its right to exist in principal if it withdraw from Gaza, the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights; and it has overwhelming military superiority over Hamas and Hizbollah.

So it should be possible for Democratic senators to criticise its current policies, as you yourself do. And yet none of them do. So that surprises me.

However, I'm deeply disappointed in the strawman you introduce - there is no 'pogrom' against Democrats who support Israel, and your use of an emotive term like that cheapens the debate. Any 'hate' here of Israel has occurred because of the number of civilians it has killed in the past few weeks; and results in a post being deleted, or a thread being locked.

[mmonk]

59. Without a qualifier, yes.

I expect them to behave a little like dems of the past. My suspicions are raised that most of them may be on board with the full spectrum dominance plan.

[leesa]

60. So...special rules for Israel because they are the most persecuted.

Seems to be the argument of the day.