Hezbollah rocket kills man fleeing from the attacks on his bicycle

[oberliner]

Must have been self-defense.

BEIT HILLEL, Israel Aug 2, 2006 (AP)— Hezbollah launched its deepest strikes yet into Israel on Wednesday, firing a record number of more than 160 rockets. An Israeli-American was killed as he fled for home by bicycle, and a stray rocket hit the West Bank for the first time.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=2265040&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

1. I'm sure the Qana incident was too.

:sarcasm:

[k_jerome]

3. why the heck didn't the Sox make a move?

I am so pissed.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

9. I was less pissed before Varitek and Nixon went on the DL

x(

[BeyondGeography]

17. Pretty soon, the Sox will be totally disarmed

[k_jerome]

2. beware my friend. you will be flamed. nt.

[oberliner]

4. for speaking ill of Hezbollah?

But anti-Israel people aren't pro-Hezbollah.

Why would this warrant flaming?

[Name removed]

10. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lerkfish]

12. no reason for flaming that I can see.

both sides are wrong.

civilians should not be targeted, or caught in the crossfire.

When this much innocent blood is shed, BOTH sides should immediately ceasefire, step back and try to work out a solution.

Some pro-Isreali people insist on a false dichotomy: that to disagree with Isreal's actions means you support Hezbollah.
they are wrong.

[oberliner]

22. Agree that both sides should work to a peaceful solution

However, I must point out that you have spelled Israel incorrectly.

[Lerkfish]

30. I'm a bad typist

sometimes I type it correctly, sometimes I don't. I also frequently type "teh" instead of "the".

nothing is meant by it.

[Virginia Dare]

5. If it was, or it wasn't, what does it matter?

another innocent life was taken. Cease fire now.

[malaise]

8. Bingo n/t

[underpants]

6. Must have been a one-in-a-million shot

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x1799107

[Missy M]

7. To be fair you should also post the body counts of the...

Lebanese civilians.

[treestar]

11. Amen! Why this post doesn't even mention that!

Must be out of hatred of Lebanese and opposition to its right to exist.

[oberliner]

13. If I notice a lack of people posting the Lebanese civilian body counts

I will do what I can to rectify that situation.

[Missy M]

19. All loss of human life is a tragedy, on both sides, I just think...

you should have some objectivity when posting body counts.

[treestar]

14. And that is a terrible thing. Surely this ordinary civilian did not

deserve to lose his life.

[Renew Deal]

15. That's like hitting the jackpot for Hizbollah

:evilfrown:

[breakaleg]

16. and also yesterday Israel killed

2 families of 7 near Al Jamaliyeh as per CNN.

[tnlefty]

18. Snide comment aside, I'm curious about how common it is for the

people in some of these areas to have shelters in their homes. I did see a report (tv news) about a man and I believe his 9 yr. old son whose home had been hit and damaged but that they had gone into a concrete bomb shelter underneath their 2 story home and they were unharmed.

This article states that this man had left work and was killed at the entrance to his home. I guess I just wondered if his home had a built-in shelter. It also states that his wife and 2 daughters had left the area. They will be receiving some sad news.

[DireStrike]

20. Remember, Israel can AIM their munitions

Like that ambulance with the hole in the center of the cross...

My impression was that these rocket attacks were long range and fairly random. I don't think some guy on a hill saw this biker and decided to go for the headshot.

Not to give any credit to the assholes at hezbollah, but they still don't seem half as vicious as the Israelis.

[onenote]

62. its not vicious to send rockets without giving a damn where they land?

[Snivi Yllom]

21. but but but Hezbollah only targets the IDF

Hezbollah is a legitimate political party seeking peace.

NOT

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

23. And Israel is only seeking peace.

NOT

[Snivi Yllom]

25. Ok, what is Israel seeking then?

If not the defense of Israel and an eventual peaceful co-existence with its neighbors?

I can guarantee you Hezbollah is not seeking peace, in fact the more war they start, the weaker the lebanese government is, the more powerful they are, and the happier their overlords in Tehran are.

More dead Lebanese babies makes Nasrallah giddy.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

27. "Peace" through bombs, endless check points, subjugation, and flechettes

[Snivi Yllom]

31. As opposed to the no-peace strategy of Hezbollah?

War requires security.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

32. If you think you're going to end it through bombs alone, good luck.

You'll be fighting this battle forever. Peace also require compromise, not subjugation.

[Snivi Yllom]

34. See, but Hezbollah does not want it to end

you can't negotiate with that

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

37. And Israel does?

It certainly doesn't seem so.

[Snivi Yllom]

40. they should sit there and take it?

I don't think so. It's is Israel's interest to not have to spend so much on a military force and to have its citizens live without fear. Surely it's also in their interest to have the Palestinians become productive and peaceful neighbors.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

44. Then they clearly don't act within their own intertests.

If they truly wanted productive and peaceful neighbors, they could offer a contiguous, checkpoint-free Palestine. That has never been offered. Even under the deal Clinton brokered (the one, I might add, was unacceptable to Israeli terrorists), Palestine was best described as swiss cheese.

If they truly wanted productive neighbors, they could actually give back some of that tax money that they've been withholding. They wanted Palestine to democratically elect their leaders, then pitch a hissy fit when they actually do it?

If they truly wanted peaceful and productive neighbors, how about not firing missiles from fighter jets into crowded downtown streets in order to get a SUSPECTED terrorist? How about not bulldozing homes of SUSPECTED terrorists? Having innocent people, you know, rebuilding their homes and attending funerals constantly significantly reduces one's ability to be peaceful and productive, don't you think?

While we're at it, how about not using illegal flechette rounds? How about due process under law? How about not blatantly kidnapping people, which according to Haaretz, started this current mess in the first place? http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/733427.html

All of what I said about sounds far and away more like terrorism than it does security. Just because a state does it, doesn't make it right.

[Snivi Yllom]

45. ummm, we are talking about Hezbollah, in Lebanon

A ceasefire, and withdrawl from Lebanon was brokered and implemented by the UN. hezbollah was supposed to disarm.

Israel withdrew in it's interest and Lebanon's interest.

Iran via Syria and Hezbollah says "fuck it lets start some shit with Israel again, we need to knock off this uppity democracy bullshit in Lebanon".


BTW, it was Arafat who said fuck you to the best peace deal ever offered to the Palestinians.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

46. After the terms were changed after Rabin was killed.

And if you don't see the connection to Palestine, you're sadly, sadly mistaken.

[Karmakaze]

39. Eretz Israel.

It's no longer spoken about, but their actions speak louder than words.

[cracksquirrel]

48. Eretz Israel?

You mean the Zioneofascibushbotfundiedox (tm) cabal bent on conquoring not just the entire world, but specifically all of historical Palestine, Assyria, and the Sinai? So THAT's what all the fuss is about! Thanks for reminding us.

[Karmakaze]

52. Someone asked what Israel wanted if it was not peace....

the answer has been the same since before Israel even existed:

"The Partition of Palestine is illegal. It will never be recognized .... Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. Eretz Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And for Ever."
-- Menachem Begin, the day after the U.N. vote to partition Palestine.

"The past leaders of our movement left us a clear message to keep Eretz Israel from the Sea to the River Jordan for future generations, for the mass aliya (=Jewish immigration), and for the Jewish people, all of whom will be gathered into this country."
-- Former Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir declares at a Tel Aviv memorial service for former Likud leaders, November 1990. Jerusalem Domestic Radio Service.

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

[cracksquirrel]

55. orly?

Wow... hold on, stay there. Yeah, right there in that position. No, don't move, I want to boggle a little more...
Excellent, thank you. You may proceed with your marching around the sidewalk with your sign shouting at people.

[Karmakaze]

58. Hey, don't blame me, I didnt say those things...

Israeli leaders said those things. If that boggles your mind then it is not my fault.

[Snivi Yllom]

49. ohhh, zionist conspiracies again

Those evil plotting shifty Joooooooss trying to take over the entire Middle East.

[Karmakaze]

51. No, the stated goal of the people who formed and led Israel...

For example:

"The Partition of Palestine is illegal. It will never be recognized .... Jerusalem was and will for ever be our capital. Eretz Israel will be restored to the people of Israel. All of it. And for Ever."
-- Menachem Begin, the day after the U.N. vote to partition Palestine.

"The past leaders of our movement left us a clear message to keep Eretz Israel from the Sea to the River Jordan for future generations, for the mass aliya (=Jewish immigration), and for the Jewish people, all of whom will be gathered into this country."
-- Former Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir declares at a Tel Aviv memorial service for former Likud leaders, November 1990. Jerusalem Domestic Radio Service.

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization, or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands."
-- Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.

You will notice that those are quotes from people who led Israel from it inception right up to the current day - the plan never changed, simply the willingness to speak it out loud.

[cracksquirrel]

56. Funny

Funny how they never really got around to the whole killing/expelling all the Arabs from "Eretz Israel"... why was that again? Hell, the Zioneofundiebushconodox Imperium (tm) have had NUMEROUS opportunities to march all those Arabs that keep getting in the way of their world domination plans off the land of Eretz Israel at gunpoint. I guess they all just got tied up on the phone with their mothers and thus were too busy/guilt-ridden to really do ANY ethnic cleansing...

[Karmakaze]

60. Are you kidding?

Seriously, have you never heard of the occupation? or the "Seperation Wall" that expropriates even more land for Israel?

It was not me who said those things, but generations of Israeli leaders. Why do they keep saying them, if they don't mean them?

Here is another quote for you:

" create in the course of the next 10 or 20 years conditions which would attract natural and voluntary migration of the refugees from the Gaza Strip and the west Bank to Jordan. To achieve this we have to come to agreement with King Hussein and not with Yasser Arafat."
-- Yitzhak Rabin (a "Prince of Peace" by Clinton's standards), explaining his method of ethnically cleansing the occupied land without stirring a world outcry. (Quoted in David Shipler in the New York Times, 04/04/1983 citing Meir Cohen's remarks to the Knesset's foreign affairs and defense committee on March 16.)

Those conditions of course are the act of making life so unlivable for Palestinians in the occupied territories that they are forced to leave. Of course Israeli leaders aren't always so subtle:

"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories."
-- Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, speaking to students at Bar Ilan University, from the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989.

[cracksquirrel]

63. Aah, good ol' Bibi...

He never disappoints when it comes to wacky, bigoted statements... thank God he's not in charge of Israel right now, but if things go on like this for much longer, or if there's some sort of catastrophic attack against Israel, he just might be again.
But yes, I'm sure I've heard something SOMEWHERE about an occupation, and yes, I also heard some rumblings about an "appartheid wall", or some such. You raise these as examples of Israel trying to kick out all the Arabs, and yet... the population of the West Bank / Gaza keeps going up... Israel's obviously REALLY bad at this.

[Karmakaze]

64. No, in fact they are really GOOD at it...

Did you read the first quote, where Rabin talks about taking decades to make life so unlivable for the Palestinians that they leave? And what do we see? Decades of making life so unlivable for Palestinians that leaving looks like a good option.

See thats why I say they are good at this - no crazy mass slaughter for the them, they know that would simply be counterproductive because the world won't stand for it. But slow continuous pressure that makes life unlivable for Arabs in the occupied territories? Well we can all just pretend that its not happening and Israel can get away with it - and it has been working great for them so far.

Of course there is one thing that could hinder this plan - PEACE. Real and lasting peace. Which brings me back to what I said before, peace is the LAST thing Israeli leaders want. If there is peace, the long term plan for the reclamation of Eretz Israel goes out the window.

Notice I said "leaders" - The majority of Israelis would like nothing more than peace, BUT, even they are being misled as to the real intentions of the Israeli government, much like the neocons are misleading Americans as to THEIR real intentions.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

65. Oh, but those statements are apocryphal!

:sarcasm:

[theHandpuppet]

24. I grieve for all innocents killed in this madness

No matter their nationality, ethnicity, or religion.

WAR IS NOT THE ANSWER.

[bigtree]

26. horrible

there is a supreme idiocy in Hizbollah's indiscriminate attacks, as if Israelis were the only ones who need to be concerned about turning the world against them with their deadly reprisals.

I know the family must be beside themselves with grief and confusion. I hope that these images of Hizbollah's senseless slaughter influences those close to Hizbollah's leadership* to demand an end to their rampage.

[burythehatchet]

28. How many people have you convinced today?

This is the end of Israel's grip on the PR message. The corp media and politicians will, as always, be the last to understand.

[oberliner]

35. convinced of what?

Nothing to convince anyone of.

Everyone knows that Hezbollah launches rockets in the hopes of killing Israeli civilians.

We still need to condemn it as we need to condemn every other atrocity going on in this conflict.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

38. I still haven't seen your condemnation of Qana

Nor your condemnation of the UN outpost.

[kentuck]

29. photo

There was story yesterday in the Haaretz newspaper that one Israeli was "lightly injured" by a rock thrown by a Palestinian. Honest.

[Ms. Clio]

42. I dunno, that photo looks "staged" to me

/sarcasm

[JNelson6563]

33. Enough already!!

Too much death, destruction and fear on both sides!!! This lunacy must stop!

:cry: :cry:

[oc2002]

36. thats tragic loss.

but no less or more than the other in Lebanon deaths.

and yet no cease fire.

[Scurrilous]

41. Stayed to look after kibbutz, got killed

Dave Lalshouk, 52, decides to stay in Kibbutz Sa'ar, north of Nahariya, to look after property; friends say he was killed as he was bringing his dog into house

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3285512,00.html

<snip>

"Before being killed in a rocket attack on Kibbutz Sa'ar north of Nahariya, Dave Lalshouk told his neighbor that he refused to leave to the center of the country with his wife and daughter and decided to stay in the kibbutz to look after the properties of residents there.

Lalshouk was killed by shrapnel from a rocket as he drove his bicycle in the kibbutz.

Since the incident friends and family flocked to Lalshouk's home. His friends tried to call his wife and daughter, who left the kibbutz to the center of Israel . His second daughter, who lives in the United States, was also informed of the tragedy.

Lalshouk stayed in the kibbutz with his dog Duke, who stayed by his owner's body after the attack."

[uppityperson]

43. RIP, so sad for civilian deaths on all sides, more info on him from link

The 52-year-old Israeli-American killed in the attacks was struck down at the entrance to his home in Kibbutz Sa'ar near the town of Nahariya. He had been riding his bike home after a warning siren went off when the rocket fell, said Yehuda Shavit, a local government official.

The man was not immediately identified, but neighbors said he was originally from the Boston area and had been living in Israel for the last 20 years. The man's wife and two daughters had moved to southern Israel when the rocket attacks started, Shavit said, adding that more than half of the kibbutz residents also had fled.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

47. Still waiting on your condemnation of Qana and the UN outpost.

[leftofthedial]

50. so, in your opinion, Israel killing hundreds of children is good

Hezbollah killing fleeing man is bad

why aren't both bad?

[otherlander]

53. Hate to agree with *, but...

I really do wish they would stop this shit. Of course, now, they're stronger than ever, from all the support they've been getting due to Israel bombing Lebanon.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

54. Still waiting on your condemnation of Qana and the UN outpost.

[cracksquirrel]

57. Ooh ooh pick me!

I'll go first!

Even if I am uncertain about the details of what happened in either incident, they are deplorable losses of life and sheer stupidity on the part of Israel. What now?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

59. Well, I appreciate that and I say the same.

I also condemn in the plainest terms possible all attacks on civilians by Hezbollah.

I'm still waiting for the OP to do it though.

[cracksquirrel]

61. Well good to have agreement on that

You might just have to substitute one Zionist Cybersoldier (lol) for another here...