Cubans in Miami celebrating possible death of Castro reminded me of....

[kentuck]

Those videos of people in the Middle East, that they showed on TV celebrating after the jets crashed in to the WTC on 9/11. Did anyone else think similarly? Seems so unseemly, even when it is about a dictator that threw out their families after Batista. Somehow it depreciates our humanity, I think?

[GodlessBiker]

1. It reminded me of Generalissimo Fransisco Franco's fight to remain dead.

[kentuck]

2. I remember they used that line for about 2 months on SNL...

And Chevy Chase would say..."And we have a breaking bulletin: Generalissimo Franco is still dead." :)

[Renew Deal]

26. Ronald Reagan too

;)

[meldroc]

32. Franco's doctors stated:

His condition has stabilized and is not expected to deteriorate any further.

[Critters2]

53. ROFLMAO!!! eom

[SteppingRazor]

3. Eh, I don't see the similarity...

the people dancing after 9/11 were celebrating the taking of innocent life. A lot of the Cubans in Miami are celebrating the near-death of the man who, in many cases, killed their grandparents, uncle, cousins, what have you.

[kentuck]

4. Maybe it was just the celebration part?

that reminded me.

[FearofFutility]

5. I agree

I'm sure my father was among those who was dancing in the streets. His family was forced to leave Cuba after Castro came to power. He loves Cuba and dreams of going back some day.

[eomer]

6. I'll bet that 99% of those dancing either had a close family member

murdered or imprisoned for political reasons or they know someone personally that fits those criteria.

There is someone in my family whose father was a political prisoner for more than twenty years and I have an acquaintance whose father was executed on the streets without even a pretense of a legal process.

I wasn't dancing myself but I can sympathize with those who were. Maybe I will dance when his demise is confirmed.

[soothsayer]

7. Toppling of the saddam statue, our team wins the superbowl,

etc. etc.

[Virginia Dare]

8. The public celebration of anyone's death is macabre....

but the news media is lapping it up as usual.

[murray hill farm]

21. yes..my reaction was the same...

and the medea? Horrid!

[Missy M]

9. What I don't understand is many of the Cubans celebrating...

his possible death and what they think is their chance to reclaim land, etc. were born in the US. My ancestors came from a European country ruled by communism for many years and when it ended I certainly had no intentions of going there to reclaim anything that was my families, because I am an American, born and raised here. Do they think they will return and it will be like the days of Batista, something that was good for the wealthy and not so good for the multitudes of poor. I don't get it.

[kentuck]

10. Are you saying the poor people of Cuba are better off under Castro...?

than they were under Batista?

[Missy M]

12. In some ways, yes. What I was really trying to say is Cuba....

will probably never again be like the days of Batista, which is good, and hopefully there will be a balance under new leadership giving the Cubans a society that is free.

[RaleighNCDUer]

24. The poor are certainly much better off under Castro than they

were under Batista.

Under Castro they have something like 99% literacy - better than in the US. They have universal health care.

When the current regime ends there will be an explosion of Cuban influence, as the highly educated Cuban people are freed of the restrictions they live under. If they are fortunate enough to preserve their educational and health systems, not let them get privatised, Cuba will be the powerhouse of the Caribbean.

Castro's regime is/was anathema to the oligarchic wealthy class, and to the US interests, both the exploitative agricultural interests and the American mob-financed casinos and resorts. It was hard on the middle class, who already had the advantages of good education and healthcare and thus gained nothing, but lost a lot of their properties. But the poor benefitted, at a trade off for many freedoms - freedoms they may have technically had before but, due to poverty, could not take advantage of anyway. Those who lost were those who had the most in property and wealth to lose. There is a reason why the Miami Cubans are heavily pro-Republican.

[kiki]

28. Ummm...

Are you saying that poor Cubans were better off under Batista? :crazy:

[kentuck]

31. No kiki...

I was attempting tomake a point with a question. I think the people of Cuba are much better off under Castro than under Batista. At least, from what I have read. Also, many of the people from the Batista regime moved to Miami, rather than to be prosecuted by the new leader, Fidel Castro.

[kiki]

44. Then I don't really get the point of post #10...

Were you genuinely saying, "Are you saying Cubans are better off under Castro than Batista? 'Cos if you are, I completely agree with you"?

[kentuck]

46. The poorest Cubans are much better off...

I think. Of course, if you take the freedom and democracy out of the equation. However, freedom and democracy are over-rated if you are sick and hungry and have no hope.

[kiki]

65. Yes indeed.

And more to the point, it should be up to Cubans AND ONLY CUBANS whether they want to have "freedom" and "democracy" in their country. It's certainly no business of the US government, no matter what the Miami folks say.

Castro has hopefully helped, as you say, "the poorest Cubans"... as for the richest Cubans, I say the same about them as I say about the richest people in any country: fuck 'em. In my entirely objective and balanced opinion, of course. :)

[eomer]

11. My wife and her parents certainly have no intention of going back to Cuba

to reclaim anything that belonged to their family.

I don't think most Miami Cubans have that in mind.

Is there some reason you think they are different than your family or could it be they feel much the same as you did?

[Missy M]

16. I'm sure many feel the way my family did but I have read....

comments on DU where some Cubans want to reclaim what they had. That is not possible and I'm not even saying what was taken away is right, but to dream of something being like days gone by is not realistic. I think when Castro is gone it should be up to the Cubans living in Cuba to decide their fate and not the American government. I think if you are realistic you know the US, specially this administration, has what they think Cuba should be already lined up. They also have much backing by the Miami Cubans.

[eomer]

20. I agree with everything you said but would clarify just one point.

They (this administration) would have the backing of many Miami Cubans (in imposing some U.S. sponsored plan) but certainly not all Miami Cubans. Maybe that is what you meant but I just wanted to emphasize that there is some diversity of opinion on issues like this one. There is not much diversity on the question of opposing Castro but most other questions are more open to discussion.

[wakeme2008]

13. The Cuban in South Florida are the lowest form of life out there

One of the reasons I am moving out of Florida. They have hide a terrorist that blew a plane out of the sky, just because it was a Cuban plane. These are very sick people :grr:

[blue2helix]

15. That was racist

I wouldn't be offended if you specified your remarks to extreme right-wing or a particular organization of Cubans, but to paint all Cuban Americans with such a broad brush is highly offensive and not a progressive value.

[hoboken123]

27. "paint all Cuban Americans "

The post said Cubans in South Florida, so what are you talking about?

Making things up is highly offensive and not a progressive value.

[blue2helix]

30. You prove my point about bigotry and stereotyping.

It's OK to stereotype 650k or so Cubans in Miami, let alone all of South Florida (probably over a million)!? They are all the same???? I happen to know plenty who are progressive.

Just because you say in "South Florida" it makes it OK? That is some ignorant and offensive shit.

[hoboken123]

47. Any chance you read the post

I made no comments about the original post.

My only point is why you need to lie about it. You would've been fine saying 'paint all the cuban americans in SF', but you didn't. You said all cuban americans, which is not what they said.



And where'd I say it's ok? Why make more things up?

[blue2helix]

51. Very Silly - at least be Honest

The obvious conclusion from your distinction is that you seem to be OK with stereotyping All South Florida Cubans. Otherwise why even make you confrontational point?

Since stereotyping either All Cuban Americans or Cubans from South Florida as "the lowest form of life out there" is still an incorrect and bigoted generalization either way, my error didn't materially misrepresent the offensive nature of the comment.

What conclusion was served in making your distinction other than to suggest that maliciously generalizing a million or so South Florida Cubans was OK as opposed to all Cuban Americans?

Nice try - but own up to your statements next time.

[hoboken123]

58. Let's be honest

"The obvious conclusion from your distinction is that you seem to be OK with stereotyping All South Florida Cubans."

No. Not even close.

But misrepresenting someone's post is something I hate. And now you're doing it to my posts too.



And btw, if that's your idea of an obvious conclusion, I worry for you.

[blue2helix]

60. Keep Backpedaling - it's Entertaining to Watch!

Keep backpedaling! It's entertaining to watch.

[hoboken123]

62. Some people like facts

And then there's you.

[blue2helix]

63. Fascinating generalized non-germane argument!

Like I said, entertaining to watch.

Look, I feel bad for you now. I think I made my point, sorry for the fight.

[hoboken123]

64. Completely germane

You like to bolster your arguments by mischaracterizing others' posts.

Most don't.

[eomer]

34. "The Cuban in South Florida are the lowest form of life out there"

The poster lumped together all Cubans in South Florida. That would include my wife. She did not hide anyone who blew up anything and does not support any such actions. Lumping her in with those who did and do seems to be based on her ethnicity and national origin.

[wakeme2008]

36. where the South Florida Cubans dancing in the streets because they

thought a man had died. YES...

[blue2helix]

38. Which Cubans?

Which ones are celebrating? Your generalization is the whole point, oh bigoted slow-witted one.

Should I just give up on you? I don't think you are able to discern the nuance (nuance to you -obvious to others) behind the offensive nature of those sweeping statements.

[eomer]

40. NO...

A few were dancing in the streets. Most were not.

And of those that were dancing I think most did so because Castro is not in power, not because they thought he had died. Everyone I've talked to is not convinced one way or the other whether he is dead or not.

[wakeme2008]

42. Miami Newspaper video

Dancing in the Streets http://www.miami.com/multimedia/miami/news/archive/video/widescreens/fidel_calle8_video_b.html

[blue2helix]

43. It shows ALL South Florida Cubans dancing?

Or about a hundred or so fools?

[eomer]

45. The sign at the beginning says "Fidel renuncio al poder",

which means "Fidel has given up power".

Later there are signs that say "Viva Cuba Libre", which translates loosely to "up with a free Cuba".

There weren't any signs that say "Castro se murio" ("Castro has died").

Edit: oops, replied to wrong post. This was meant as a reply to wakeme2008 #42.

[RagingInMiami]

55. I know a lot of Cuban Americans who were NOT dancing in the streets

I also know a lot of Jews who do NOT support Israel's aggression against Lebanon.

I also know a lot of Southerners who do NOT support Bush.

Generalizations are a good indicator of ignorance.

[hoboken123]

48. Then why respond to me?

Your point is with the poster above me.

[eomer]

49. No problem.

Then I take it you don't embrace his point, which I thought you did.

Sorry if I misconstrued.

[hoboken123]

59. No-sorry if I gave that idea

I just hate to see someone need to change someone's words to bolster their point.

[RagingInMiami]

50. "Making things up is highly offensive and not a progressive value."

Then what are you doing on this board generalizing like a fucking right-winger?

[Freddie Stubbs]

22. This is DEMOCRATIC Underground, not Racist Underground

[RebelOne]

25. One of the many reasons I moved out of the Miami area to Georgia

was because of the Cubans. They had taken over a city that I grew up in and it just wasn't the same anymore.

[wakeme2008]

35. Right, I have been in convenience stores that would not serve you if

you did not speak Cuban in the Miami area.

[Fountain79]

37. You mean Spanish right? n/t

[wakeme2008]

39. No there is a difference between Spanish and Cuban

:)

[Fountain79]

41. No....it's a different accent...but not a different language...

They might speak Cuban Spanish but not Cuban. Personally I thought your original post was a pretty hateful remark on a large group of people. You might say that you don't agree with the consensus opinion of Cubans in South Florida but to make a comment like that is nothing short of bigotry.

[RagingInMiami]

57. On that basis

Then we speak American, not English. And the Mexicans speak Mexican, not Spanish. And so on and so on.

[RagingInMiami]

56. You're a fucking liar

And continue proving your ignorance.

You're telling me they refused your money because you did not speak Spanish?

[wakeme2008]

68. yes they ignored me until I left.

watch your language.

[RagingInMiami]

52. I'm glad you're moving out of Florida

People like you who stigmatize an entire immigrant group based on the actions of an extreme vocal minority are what I would call, "very sick people."

Good riddance.

[wakeme2008]

66. Cubans think they are better than any other immigration group...

The Repugs are welcome to them..... them and the skinheads are just alike.

[Patsy Stone]

54. Don't let the door hit your ass in the way out.

As I see it: they may have competition in the "lowest life form" department. See ya!

[wakeme2008]

67. I have not worked in Cheap Red Florida more than one year out of

20. I am moving to Blue California. :bounce: :bounce:

[treestar]

14. Reminds me more of those cheering executions, like Ted Bundy's

But who knows that it is not in all of us - what if Ann Coulter died?

[kentuck]

18. I would not cheer if Ann Coulter died...

???

[bullimiami]

17. i drove right through the 'celebration' yesterday afternoon.

it was small, no more than some dozens of people, certainly less than 50, and confined to a restaurant parking lot on calle ocho with a radio station set up in a parking lot across the street. some cops and cones.
i almost ran over an old man running across the street wearing a cuban flag like a cape. a cop yelled something at me and i told him he should probably be keeping people from running through the traffic.

its a media show. all hype, few people, but the news always shows it close up to make it appear larger. once again the news media is showing its agenda and a 'show' is more important than the facts.

[blue2helix]

19. There are like 650k Cubans in Miami

And who is getting the media attention? - the hundred or so idiots with nothing better to do. It's just not a juicy story to show Cubans going to work, school, or doing household chores.

[kentuck]

23. Good point.

That needs to be made. What people see on their TVs is not what most Cubans are doing.

[RagingInMiami]

61. It was the usual crowd that shows up at Versaille every time

something like this happens. Whether it is Bush winning or some Cuban getting deported because he landed on a bridge and not on actual land, you always get the same group of Cubans out there. Many are out there because it's an excuse to blow your horn and raise a little hell, which Cubans are fond of.

I was working out when the news about Castro came on. I work out in Bally's on Coral Way across from the Miracle Center. You know that is a very Cuban area.

The news was all over the TVs in the gym. Some people watched with interest as they walked or ran on the treadmill, but most people just continued working out as if it were just another ordinary day.

[The Stranger]

29. Every Middle Eastern country expressed support for the U.S. during 911.

This included Syria and Iran. But the Neocon war and hate machine wanted war against them anyway.

There was a question about the legitimacy of some video shown of people celebrating, and whether it was actually file footage.

[truebrit71]

33. I agree. Especially as most of them have never been to Cuba...

...and have never had to "suffer" under that regime...

Kinda like describing Cheney as having a 'thousand-yard stare' event though he received 5 deferments and never got closer to combat than 'Saving Private Ryan'.....It's all symbolic horseshit.


I will, however, gladly help any of those joyful folks get on a boat and go back to Cuba once Fidel passes....

[Patsy Stone]

69. What they were celebrating

was that for the first time in 47 years, Fidel Castro was not in power. They were celebrating the glimmer of a hope of a change.

At the time the people took to the streets there was no real news yet about his health. In fact, if you were paying attention, and watching the constant coverage on the news in Miami, the only thing reported was that he needed surgery and would be signing over power. That was what was originally reported by Cuban television. By the time the real facts came out (that he was actually having surgery at that moment, it was a done deal) the people were already out there. Because he wasn't, for this moment in time, in power.

The theories of his death were based on the fact that he himself did not make the announcement. Which he always does.

[Mika]

70. Cuba has made radical changes over the last 47 years.

Its too bad that the US dictates travel restrictions on Americans (as well as Cuban immigrants) so that most Americans remain in the dark about the major changes that Cuba has made.

Many Americans might know that Cuba has developed a world class universal health care system that did not exist pre revolution - health care was all but unavailable to poor working Cubans.

Many Americans might know that Cuba has developed a world class universal education system, from pre K to PhD - reducing illiteracy to 0%. (Large percentages of Cubans were illiterate and had never had access to any schools - pre revolution.)

What many Americans don't know is that Cuba made the transition to a representative democratic parliamentary system in 1976.


I've been there and I have seen all of these things, mentioned above, function for all Cubans in Cuba and function quite well.