1/3 American Say US Government Was Involved With 911 Attacks

[kpete]

TIME TO RE-OPEN THE 9-11 DEBATE?

Thirty-six percent of respondents overall said it is "very likely" or "somewhat likely" that federal officials either participated in the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon or took no action to stop them "because they wanted the United States to go to war in the Middle East."

"One out of three sounds high, but that may very well be right," said Lee Hamilton, former vice chairman of the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States (also called the 9/11 commission.) His congressionally appointed investigation concluded that federal officials bungled their attempts to prevent, but did not participate in, the attacks by al Qaeda five years ago.

.......................

University of Florida law professor Mark Fenster, author of the book "Conspiracy Theories: Secrecy and Power in American Culture," said the poll's findings reflect public anger at the unpopular Iraq war, realization that Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction and growing doubts of the veracity of the Bush administration.

"What has amazed me is not that there are conspiracy theories, but that they didn't seem to be getting any purchase among the American public until the last year or so," Fenster said. "Although the Iraq war was not directly related to the 9/11 attacks, people are now looking back at 9/11 with much more skepticism than they used to."

Conspiracy-believing participants in the poll agree their suspicions are recent.

http://www.scrippsnews.com/911poll


AND NOW WE FIND OUT: THE PENTAGON LIED TO THE 9-11 COMMISSION (WAPO)

9/11 Panel Suspected Deception by Pentagon
Allegations Brought to Inspectors General

By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, August 2, 2006; Page A03

Some staff members and commissioners of the Sept. 11 panel concluded that the Pentagon's initial story of how it reacted to the 2001 terrorist attacks may have been part of a deliberate effort to mislead the commission and the public rather than a reflection of the fog of events on that day, according to sources involved in the debate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/01/AR2006080101300.html

[htuttle]

1. Is 33% still a 'fringe group'?

I suppose though, something like 75% of Americans want us to get out of Iraq, and they are referred to as a 'fringe group', too...

[Celica Toyota]

43. Here it is.

I think Bush did it too.

[fordnut]

63. hey go to Barbara Bush's biography

or go to Marvin Bush's biography it talks about he (Marvin
Bush)was a head of security in the buildings on 9/11 and when
the buildings were on fire the s.o.b told everyone to go back
to work.and also wasn't it convient that Bush was in Florida
when the other plane wanted to hit the white house.think about
that

[LincolnMcGrath]

50. Is 33% still a 'fringe group'? Only to asshats like Big Eddie Schultz!

[NV Whino]

2. Makes ya want to scream,

doesn't it?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

3. Combined with the 35% still supporting Bush...

...I figure that's gotta make at least 50% of the population really fucking stupid and/or gullible.

[mikelgb]

13. you support Bush's view of the events of 9/11

how fucking stupid and gullible does that make you?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

14. You have no idea what I support or don't support.

However, you seem to assume that I don't agree with you, which for some reason causes you to point profanity in my direction.

I have no idea what you believe, and quite frankly I don't care.

[mikelgb]

16. I know that you flaunt the popular mechanics article about

that and your asshole behavior in this and another thread was enough for me to form a few opinions

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

17. Yes.

I apologise for not using racist, right-wing conspiracy sites as the basis for my opinions. Perhaps some day I will become enlightened, and I will see the truth behind the UN and Israel's control of Bush and how this relates to MIHOP. Until then, there's a reason discussion of paranoid delusions are kept out of GD.

[wildbilln864]

19. BTW, that popular mechanics article...

was overseen by Chertof's cuz! You're don't really take that crap seriously do you?

[smirkymonkey]

22. What was the Popular Mechanics article?

[mikelgb]

51. i won't refer to you it but i'll do the next best thing

i'll refer you to him referring to it...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=103564&mesg_id=103575

[toymachines]

42. Explain why it is stupid to believe we are being lied to?

All we are saying is that the fucking administration is lying to us, the investigation/commisson was a sham, and no one in our government except maybe conyers would support another investigation. Something is fucked up here, you have to admit that.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

57. Shit like this actually makes me glad I left the country.

All we are saying is that the fucking administration is lying to us, the investigation/commisson was a sham, and no one in our government except maybe conyers would support another investigation.

That's what who's saying? Because when I go to the 9/11 forum I see links to all kinds of paranoid or racist shit from the same people who ran Clinton through the shredder over Vince Foster, the United Nations, and all sorts of other issues. The very same people. I see people who don't believe that planes hit the World Trade Center let alone the Pentagon. I see people lighting bunny cages on fire to demonstrate that the WTC could not have been brought down by planes alone.

The fact that the investigation was a sham is in no way evidence for the MIHOP theory. Almost anyone who has ever studied History in a professional or academic capacity will tell you that drawing conclusions that way is wrong.

Yes, something is fucked up here. Our government is a fucking mess. They are covering up various aspects of what happened on 9/11 and before in order to cover their own asses. Remember Richard Clarke, and the scam they ran on him. But there's a huge difference between that and MIHOP. I've always said that I will engage the MIHOP people on a reasonable level when they present one single person or fact that backs up their story, or publish one paper in a peer reviewed scientific journal that backs up their findings. But quite frankly, the MIHOP make me cry for the state of the educational system in the United States. It's pitiful that so many people lack critical thinking and science skills.

I swear to God, the saving grace of Britain is that people here are not so ready to give themselves over to paranoia and fear as are Americans. There was some vicious conspiracy bullshit about the 7/7 bombings, but most of it came from American conspiracy theorists with too much time on their hands.

1/3 of Americans are part of the MIHOP hive mind now? God fucking help us.

[mhatrw]

69. Shit like this make us glad you left the country as well.

First, 36% believe that MIHOP or LIHOP is very or somewhat likely.

Considering everything anybody who has been paying attention has already confirmed about our current administration, it's the other 64% that make me cry for the state of the educational system in the United States.

[DemonFighterLives]

62. The deluded 29% believe the official word

hook, line and sinker. I don't see how the 2 sides combine.

[mhatrw]

68. Yes, only those opposing Bush but completely supporting the

basis for all of his administration's most heinous crimes and policies are discerning.

[Turbineguy]

4. While there's an argument

for setting up an attack on the US so you can go to war in the Middle East, the argument for preventing it is greater. They would have gone from having killed 3000 people to having saved at least 80,000 lives (remember they had Fox News).

They could have still had the Patriot Act, the ousting of the Taliban and the attack on Iraq based on the same set of lies. Bush would have been a hero.

[krkaufman]

28. You need to read PNAC's white paper ...

... where they expressly stated the goal of overthrowing Saddam, but that it would take a new Pearl Harbor event to win public support for the effort. (Google)

Whether it will ever be proved is unknowable, but the minimalist LSHOP theory is certainly fed by the Bush Admin's wholesale neglect on the al Qaeda/bin Laden/terrorism front during their first 8 months in office -- especially after being warned that al Qaeda would be their number one concern.

[Turbineguy]

31. I read the PNAC Stuff

I also read the bin Laden manifesto. He actually had some reasonable points. By attacking the US however, he closed the door on getting any of them considered.

Of course during the Clinton years the plot to blow up 10 planes was unmasked and thwarted. But for the Clinton Administration it was all in a days work. When Clinton tried to smash al Qeada the Republicans put up a tremendous amount of flack.

Candidate Bush expressed the desire to attack Iraq long before he got to the Whitehouse. I knew that a vote for Bush in 2000 was a vote for war in Iraq. I told everybody I knew this.

I am convinced that the 911 attacks would not have happened if Bush had not become President. Bin Laden is less likely to have attacked as there would have been at least a glimmer of hope that some of his issues would have been considered. But if he had decided to attack there was also a good likelihood that the Gore Administration would have been on the ball to thwart it.

But yes, it is unknowable if any of this can be proved.

[mhatrw]

70. Preventing it could have never had the profound memetic effect

("9/11 Changes Everything") as allowing it.

[FighttheFuture]

92. Exactly!!

[FighttheFuture]

91. Rediculous...!! You must feel the pain to move the sheep...

saving people could be something to tout about, but what then never happened has little power to move people to war, patriot act, Gitmo, etc.!!

Clinon admin stopped dozens of terror plots. Can you name one?

[zcflint09]

5. K & R--awesome news! nt

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[davidwparker]

7. that low. I thought it was obvious now that there was gov't involvement.

Guess people need to click here:

http://seeloosechange.com

Film is so awesome that I downloaded it. Burning my own DVD for passing it to friends.

Guess some people can't get their heads around:

2 planes, three buildings fell.
News coverage of people going ... "I heard lots of explosions."
3 buildings fell at nearly FREE FALL speed. Newtonian physics, what a concept.

No bodies in PA

A whole in the Pentagon not made by a jet (get this, flown by inexperienced pilots making moves not possible for a plane of that size which professional pilots couldn't even make.)

We have a deceitful gov't even when its not being run by the * Crime Family.

[Philosoraptor]

8. Report immediately to the nearest re-ed. center or suicide booth...n/t

[shadowknows69]

9. When that number hit 50%

I think it's time to go knocking on the White House door and serve eviction notices.

[petgoat]

10. The tinfoil's hitting the fan! nt

[Mind_your_head]

11. ROFL - good one! n/t

[FighttheFuture]

93. No, the blinders are hitting the fan!!

[bobthedrummer]

12. LIHOP, at a minimum-despite many warnings from law enforcement

anti-terrorist units here and abroad, intelligence services here and abroad, foreign leaders, etc...

Then there is the fact that after the stolen election that installed this "administration" the replacement and/or forced retirement of many senior leadership and supervisory positions in "our" military, intelligence, foreign affairs, law enforcement with "their" traitorous zealots began. Hence LIHOP.

We are being "governed" by an extremist RW fascist group that has succeeded in agendas that included failure (by design), and a lot of things that were once dismissed as conspiracy theory.

[meldroc]

15. I'm really divided on this.

Up until recently, I dismissed all of the theories on 9/11 as :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: , but now I'm getting doubts and suspicion.

Having heard parts of the pattern of events that took place on 9/11 (long times before fighters were scrambled, law-enforcement warnings of the attack were inexplicably ignored) while Cheney & Bush were whisked to bunkers instantly, I am now suspicious that it was a LIHOP.

If that is the case, that's fucking treason. If Bush, Cheney and other government officials deliberately allowed 9/11 to take place, they've literally given aid and comfort to the enemy, and should be arrested, tried for treason, and executed.

I do need some solid evidence before I can say that for certain though.

[gordianot]

18. If there was treason and the culprits were punished what consequences?

You make a good point about treason.

If there truly were acts of treason (Like you I don't know but have suspicions). Imagine Bush Cheney executed the repercussions would be beyond comprehension. On the other hand life imprisonment would not be much better in regards to repercussions from the 23% US population who are conservatively insane. Small wonder the 9-11 Commission was so incomplete. This would be the ultimate crisis far worse than what happened on 9/11.

When you think about it this is the danger of trying those who are accused of the attacks

If 9/11 attacks are ever truly investigated and answered there needs to be consequences for those "involved".

[FighttheFuture]

94. If treason could be proven, then execution would be a great

way for this country to start regaining it's sanity and standing to the rest of the world. However, proving treason will be very hard, especially while these criminals keep floating the "incompetence" defense. You see, incompetence may get you fired, or not elected, but there is nothing criminal about it. We are all fools for allowing the incompetence, so we must forgive with a grin, but we are victims when criminal acts are done. As victims, we can legitimately seek redress.

So, to defeat that, you must keep floating the fool, incompetent, stupid, etc. memes. Bush serves that purpose very well (better than anyone). Add to this his psychopathic behavior which eliminates any possibility that he would actually, at some point, try to do the right, ethical, moral thing. They are all safe from exposure from their puppet. Ain't goona happen with Bushitler.

No, unless people wake up to the realization of these bunch of thugs as CRIMINALS (as opposed to incompetent idiots), and take the steps necessary to deal with them (The Rosenberg Solution), we will always be fools, ready to be played upon again. For just that reason alone, I am willing to entertain 9/11 conspiracy and treason charges (although I have other reasons).

I have no doubt that Bu$hitCo and its backers did all they could to dampen our response to allow a 9/11 to happen to advance thier real agenda; that is treason enough. Whether they did even more... Well, seeing the daily outrages from these insane bastards, I would be a fool to not consider it. For any honest, critical thinker, the question is not settled.

[wildbilln864]

20. well the only solid evidence...

was quickly loaded on transports to be shipped away! Maybe if lucky, truth will come out.
You need to read Webster Tarpley's online book "Synthetic Terror"
http://www.uads.org/u/looyah/Tarpley-911synthetic_terror_made_in_USA.pdf

[Avalux]

39. That evidence may not show up for a very long time.

Here's my main question about the entire event: Why didn't our government IMMEDIATELY jump to investigate what happened? Wouldn't you think if blunders were made by the Pentagon, if incompetence played a role, they'd want to find out? Instead, clean-up was hurried along and Bush stalled any sort of investigation until he was forced to do so a long time later. So many questions surrounding that day weren't even addressed by the eventual 9/11 Commission, such as what exactly caused WTC 7 to fall into it's own footprint.

I am in the same place you are - as time goes by, I am becoming increasingly skeptical of the "official story"; party because the bunch of crooks running this country have lied about everything else. I think they're capable of anything.

The truth will come out eventually (it always does) - just may be years from now, after Bushco is long dead and gone.

[marions ghost]

48. It just goes to show

we do not have a govt capable of investigating anything that really matters.

[Selatius]

55. You're going to be waiting for 60 years or more for the truth

Because it will likely take that long for all relevant documents related to what happened on that day will be declassified and moved to the National Archives. Of course, by then the people at fault will have long escaped and lived out their lives in their huge estates, which will belong to the future generation of Cheneys and Rumsfelds and Bushes by then.

[TNOE]

41. Bush should have been impeached

based solely on the fact that HE SAT & DID NOTHING AFTER LEARNING AMERICA WAS UNDER ATTACK. HE DID NOTHING. HE WENT ON WITH HIS PHOTO-OP. THAT IS A PROVEN FACT beyond dispute.

And combine this with all the other TONS of information that proves 9/11 was in fact an inside job. But the talking heads told America what a great pResident he was and what a great leader and instead of the people thinking for themselves... um, what did this dude do exactly besides standing on a heap with a bullhorn days after the fact... they believed whole-heartedly what they were being told.

EVERYbody else (who had no control over the situation)ran to their TV, or turned on their radios, DID SOMETHING - went into some sort of action - but not this pResident - he just nodded and sat there.

And again under Katrina, he just went about his business and DID NOTHING again - and he still sits in the people's house spending our money.

When exactly do the people in this country choose not to be played for fools?

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

54. I soooo agree with you

One indisputable fact. Sat and did nothing. When America was under attack. Sat and did nothing . When America was under attack.
Sat and did nothing. When America was under attack. Sat and did nothing. When America was under attack. What else is there to know?

[DemonFighterLives]

60. Welcome to Du!

You are on the right track.
:hi:

[SmokingJacket]

88. I'm a complete agnostic -- but I do feel we don't have enough

good information.

If there was an actual investigation of what happened, I'd feel better. The govt's determined efforts to cloud, confuse, and hide what happened are a HUGE red flag to me.

[wildbilln864]

21. Kicked...

and recommended

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[breakaleg]

24. maybe that's the same group who thinks Elvis is still alive...

[cgrindley]

25. There is a disjunct

On one hand, there is the common image of the pipe-smoking Dad patting the son on his curly locks as they stare lovingly up at Lincoln's monument, and Dad says: "One day, Son, you could be president."

And yet we know, absolutely know, that not everyone can become president. It takes a variable combination of family connections, incredible amounts of money, untold charisma, the "right" gender, the "right" color, the "right" religion and so on. Shit, name the last one under 6'. Remember Dukakis being criticized for being SHORT?

On the other hand, if not just anyone can kill a president. It's got to be a conspiracy of mobsters and castro and aliens.

[underpants]

26. I don't buy LIHOP or MIHOP but I knew this was coming

don't worry what this really means is that people are opening their eyes to how apathetic Cheney, Rummy, and in turn W were to terrorism. Anything but Clinton-if Bill supported it, signed it, or promoted it IT had to be directly rejected, reversed, or ignored.

Bush (meaning Rove the the Republican political machinery) have lived off 9/11 hell they danced on their graves at the convention. 9/11 will be W's legacy but he won't be taking credit for it he will be blamed for it.
No amount of lapdog press covering for W could deny this from happening.

Now about your statment:

They were fairly well organized but the actual hijackers were very new to the organization.
They didn't need much funding-somewhere between $250k and $750K.
The lack of security is the direct result of the privatization of airport security-turning it over to airlines who clearly are poorly managed as it is and allowing them to do security on the cheap.
There were no "unforeseen factors" the Twin Towers were engineered to take the brunt of a airliner hitting them-the fire was another matter.
It wasn't impossible to do it's just that the pressure that had been there to "shake the trees" (see operation Bojinka) was gone. Again apathy neglect and incompetence... ON BUSH'S WATCH as the saying went aroung the time of the USS Cole attack.

[Octafish]

30. "Sad Loner" named Bush?

Here's Poppy telling the FBI a suspect's name, less than an hour after President Kennedy was assassinated.



Who's benefited the most since then?

The War Party.

[HughBeaumont]

34. This ain't that kind of forum, kid.

Go to Yahoo if you want to engage in ad hominem curmudgeoness. There isn't anything WRONG with me because I don't buy the 9/11 Commission's bullshit story. There are way too many holes and improbabilities in that whitewash based on the documented events before, during and after that day. Your explanation is flaccid and too surface to solely blame it on incompetence and luck.

[cgrindley]

36. It's not ad hominem to point out that 9/11 conspiracy theories

are utterly and completely idiotic. Beyond any conceivable contempt. Insulting. Offensive.

[HughBeaumont]

38. I find the 9/11 Commission report to be the biggest CT of them all.

You want to be insulting to the families, THAT would be the version of the story I'd want to do it with. It asks no hard questions whatsoever, gives a Bush/Cheney 04-friendly version, implicates NO one in the Bush Administration and no questions of why the FAA, NORAD, Donald Rumsfeld, Condoleeza Rice and the DOD so blatantly dropped the ball when they were practically HANDED advance warning of this event.

Ever read The Terror Timeline? Want to tell me that book is just a giant conspiracy theory? Every single item in that book is from a documented mainstream news source. No Alex Jones, no rense, no prisonplanet, NONE of that. Legitimate news sources, legitimate stories. Read the events before, during and after 9/11. It doesn't take a damned genius to put two and two together; the organizations that performed a complete belly flop that day (namely, FAA and NORAD) were FAR too prepared and trained for this sort of thing to pass their negligence off as incompetence. What of the puts? Why the big secrecy surrounding the Pentagon?

[bananarepublican]

46. You are correct but...

... your reference to legitimate news sources disturbs me. As a whole the MSM is anything but legit!

[HughBeaumont]

52. As a whole, yes, it is a big fat joke . . .

and that's just his point in the book. Yes, all of the articles come from mainstream news sources and all of these events DID happen. But the problem lay in the prominence; lots of the articles were treated as mere blurbs, bites and tidbits below the Kaufmanns or Macy's ads on page 15 while the missing pretty white girl, celebrity and "successful war-on-terr" sagas occupied the main stage these past five years. His issue is that the mainstream media has their priorities completely out of whack - this should be screamed from the rooftops, as should countless other stories that question government accountability. Instead, it's being whispered and laid to rest.

The reason many people are being drawn to this book is because when you read it, you're like "so how come I never read about this happening"? We on DU have read these articles on this site and cooperativeResearch, but the average Joe and Jane on the street, who should be outraged, hasn't.

[Jim Sagle]

44. It may not be ad hom, but it's a lie.

911 was an inside job, and everybody goddamn well knows it.

[LunaC]

53. How do you breathe

with your head buried so deep in the sand? If you're ready to join the astute and aware, the link in my sig line offers overwhelming circumstantial evidence supported by MSM and reputable sources that may shift your perspective.

[mhatrw]

71. You're right. And the conspiracy of 19 Arabs, all positively

identified by the FBI within 2 days, led by a guy in a cave halfway around the world who still hasn't been charged with anything to do with 9/11 is at the very top of this list.

This is certainly an utterly and completely idiotic conspiracy theory. Beyond any conceivable contempt. Offensive and insulting to our intelligence.

[wildbilln864]

27. 1/3 of Americans?

It should be much more! Truth will set us free!

[Octafish]

29. If the 64 percent heard what most DUers know, it'd be 99 percent.

Even the Truth can't convince everybody.

[Octafish]

97. Evidence Bush knew about bin Laden and hijackings beforehand...

Reports from the time:

Why would Osama bin Laden want to kill Dubya, his former business partner?

By James Hatfield

Editor's note: In light of last week's horrific events and the Bush administration's reaction to them, we are reprising the following from the last column Jim Hatfield wrote for Online Journal prior to his tragic death on July 18:

July 3, 2001—There may be fireworks in Genoa, Italy, this month, too.

A plot by Saudi master terrorist, Osama bin Laden, to assassinate Dubya during the July 20 economic summit of world leaders, was uncovered after dozens of suspected Islamic militants linked to bin Laden's international terror network were arrested in Frankfurt, Germany, and Milan, Italy, in April.

German intelligence services have stated that bin Laden is covertly financing neo-Nazi skinhead groups throughout Europe to launch another terrorist attack at a high-profile American target—his first since the bombing of the USS Cole in Yemen last October.

According to counter-terrorism experts quoted in Germany's largest newspaper, the attack on Dubya might be a James Bond-like aerial strike in the form of remote-controlled airplanes packed with plastic explosives.

Why would Osama bi Laden want to kill, Dubya, his former business partner?

I knew that bombshell would whip your heads around. So here's the straight scoop, folks.

In June 1977, Dubya formed his own drilling company, Arbusto Energy ("arbusto" means "bush" in Spanish), in Midland, Texas. Like his father before him, Dubya founded his oil business with the financial backing of investors, including James R. Bath, a Houston businessman whom Dubya apparently first met when they were in the same Texas Air National Guard unit. (Interestingly, both Dubya and Bath were both suspended from flying in August and September 1972, respectively, for "failure to accomplish annual medical examination.")

CONTINUED...

So THAT's why Hatfield had to go.

Here's more on the coward from Crawford afraid...

Plot to assassinate Bush - reports

MOSCOW, Russia -- Osama bin Laden has threatened to assassinate U.S. President George W. Bush at a G8 meeting in Italy, the head of Russia's Federal Bodyguard Service has said, according to reports.

The Associated Press said Yevgeny Murov was quoted by Itar-Tass news agency as saying: "Bin Laden is threatening the American president, but we know what international terrorism is today and therefore all the bodyguard units concerned are preparing for this.

SNIP...

The Group of Eight summit is meeting between July 20-22 in Genoa, Italy. Leaders from Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Russia and the United States are expected to attend the summit.

Murov -- Russian President Vladimir Putin's chief bodyguard -- did not elaborate on the threats. He said agents from Russia's Federal Bodyguard Service have travelled to Genoa to coordinate with their counterparts from the other nations taking part in the summit to investigate the threats.

Reports in the U.S., German and Italian media have said bin Laden may be plotting against Bush and other world leaders coming to Genoa, The Associated Press reported.

CONTINUED...

So what's a chicken-in-chief gonna do? Call in the Navy:

Missiles to protect summit leaders

Special report: globalisation

Rory Carroll in Rome
Wednesday July 11, 2001
The Guardian

Italy has installed a missile defence system at Genoa's airport to deter airborne attacks during next week's G8 summit, fuelling hysteria about looming violence.
A land-based battery of rockets with a range of nine miles and an altitude of 5,000 feet has been positioned in the latest security measure against perceived threats from terrorists and protesters.

Unidentified planes, helicopters and balloons risk being shot down should they drift too close to the heads of state from the group of seven leading industrialised nations and Russia.

Colonel Alberto Battaglini, of the ministry of defence, said the precaution was not exces sive. "The measure, which was planned by the previous government, may seem open to criticism, but in reality it is merely to act as a deterrent against any aerial incursion during the summit.

"They are little missiles ... which only have a deterrent function to discourage any aerial-led attack and they do not present any danger to the residents of the city," he said.

The missile system, dubbed Spada, was erected along Italy's Adriatic coast during Nato's 1999 bombing of Yugoslavia.

CONTINUED...

Some did get warned:

Ashcroft Flying High

WASHINGTON, July 26, 2001

Fishing rod in hand, Attorney General John Ashcroft left on a weekend trip to Missouri Thursday afternoon aboard a chartered government jet, reports CBS News Correspondent Jim Stewart.

In response to inquiries from CBS News over why Ashcroft was traveling exclusively by leased jet aircraft instead of commercial airlines, the Justice Department cited what it called a "threat assessment" by the FBI, and said Ashcroft has been advised to travel only by private jet for the remainder of his term.

"There was a threat assessment and there are guidelines. He is acting under the guidelines," an FBI spokesman said. Neither the FBI nor the Justice Department, however, would identify what the threat was, when it was detected or who made it.

A senior official at the CIA said he was unaware of specific threats against any Cabinet member, and Ashcroft himself, in a speech in California, seemed unsure of the nature of the threat.

"I don't do threat assessments myself and I rely on those whose responsibility it is in the law enforcement community, particularly the FBI. And I try to stay within the guidelines that they've suggested I should stay within for those purposes," Ashcroft said.

Asked if he knew anything about the threat or who might have made it, the attorney general replied, "Frankly, I don't. That's the answer."

CONTINUED...

That's not conjecture. Those are the facts.

DIM KAKISTOCRAT

[Kurovski]

32. K&R.(nt)

[wildbilln864]

33. this needs...

a kick!

[democraticinsurgent]

35. and another kick

Good to see some of this outside the confines of the basement.

Those who can't see past the Osama and his magical 19 cavemen, it's time to hit the books. Facts to the contrary are all around. Anyone who actually believes the official conspiracy theory just isn't looking
beyond CNN.

[Lugnut]

37. K&R

Only 1/3? Nobody asked me.

[spanone]

40. And half of them think Iraq had WMD's.

[autorank]

45. This concern reflects feality - the Vanity Faire article is devastating.

There were outright lies to the 911 commission. And Keane knew it, yet he said things were A-OK when he released the 911 Commission Report. Just how long can his nose grow?

http://tinyurl.com/rc2dn

[madmusic]

47. The Kool-Aid Song:

Well, they'll stone ya when you're trying to be so good,
They'll stone ya just a-like they said they would.
They'll stone ya when you're tryin' to go home.
Then they'll stone ya when you're there all alone.
But I would not feel so all alone,
Everybody must get stoned. (Dylan, of course)

[zulchzulu]

49. Why do you think Bush is spying on us?

Like Stalin did, Bush hopes for a Great Purge in the not-too-distant future.

Bush does not respect the US Constitution or the laws of this land, as is evident by his treasonous behavior since he was appointed in the 2000 coup d'etat. Why should he care? Even he can see that the secret government that Ollie North bragged about in the 1980's Iran-Contra hearings is actually at the helm...and they don't give a flying fuck about our Founding Fathers. Ronald Walmart Raygun is what America wants...just smile and vote against your own interests...it's easy.

There are enough Americans out there that see the full picture well enough. And when martial law comes after the next big orchestrated "strike on the US" and the lights go out, be ready to defend your family and loved ones against your own government.

It's that simple.

Assume anything less and be ready to go on that train ride to the Nevada Reeducation Camps. Sponsored by Microsoft and Big Pharma. They will make sure you change your mind.

[NNN0LHI]

56. The Presidential Daily Briefing entitled Bin laden determined to Strike US

...that Bush and his minions ignored may have something to do with this? Bush refused to even cut his vacation short after receiving it.

Don

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ned=tus&q=presidential+daily+briefing%2Bbin+laden+determined+to+strike+america&btnmeta%3Dsearch%3Dsearch=Search+the+Web

Web Results 1 - 10 of about 557,000 for presidential daily briefing+bin laden determined to strike america. (0.06 seconds)

Transcript: Bin Laden determined to strike in USThe following is a transcript of the August 6, 2001, presidential daily briefing entitled Bin Laden determined to strike in US.
www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/10/august6.memo/ - 44k - Aug 1, 2006 - Cached - Similar pages


said in 1998 that a Bin Ladin cell in New YorkFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
for Release, 10 April 2004. Bin. ladin. Determined. To. Strike ... the fighting to America." Af1er us missile strikes on his base in Afghanistan in 1998, ...
www.cnn.com/2004/images/04/10/whitehouse.pdf - Similar pages


Presdential Daily Brieifing On bin Laden, August 6, 2001Presidential Daily Briefing bin Ladin Determined to Strike in US August 6, 2001 ... Could America Lose Its Identity in Its Fight Against Al Qaeda? ...
news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/terrorism/80601pdb.html - 39k - Aug 1, 2006 - Cached - Similar pages


Presidential Daily Briefing - Bin Ladin determined to Strike USFile Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat
Determined. To. Strike. in. US. Clandestine, foreIgn government, and media reports indicate Bin Ladin. since 1997' has wanted to conduct terrorist attacks ...
news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/terrorism/80601pdb.pdf - Similar pages


August Memo Focused On Attacks in US6 carried the headline, "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US," and was ... as the President's Daily Briefing, underscored that Osama bin Laden and his ...
www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0518-04.htm - 19k - Cached - Similar pages


August 6, 2001, President's Daily Briefing Memo - SourceWatchIt was just three days after he had read the startling President's Daily Brief titled, 'Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US,' which warned of airline ...
www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=August_6%2C_2001%2C_President's_Daily_Briefing_Memo - 50k - Cached - Similar pages


Text: President's Daily Brief on Aug. 6, 2001 (washingtonpost.com)6, 2001, intelligence briefing for President Bush that outlined al Qaeda plans to ... Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US. Clandestine, foreign government ...
www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A2285-2004Apr10¬Found=true - Similar pages


The President's Daily BriefThe American people can decide for themselves about the warning quotient, ... President's Daily Brief, "Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US" 6 August 2001 ...
www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB116/ - 60k - Cached - Similar pages


Progress Report Archives - American Progress Action FundFox News pundit Bill O'Reilly attacked the American Civil Liberties ... a President's Daily Brief (PDB) entitled "Bin Laden Determined To Strike In US. ...
www.americanprogressaction.org/site/apps/nl/content2.asp?c=klLWJcP7H&b=914257&ct=1270713 - 44k - Cached - Similar pages


The New York Times > Washington > Text of the President's Daily ...Following is the text of the "President's Daily Brief" for Aug. 6, 2001, "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US," as provided by the White House. ...
www.nytimes.com/.../11ITEX.html?ex=1397016000&en=26595ea37d0b43c6&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND - Similar pages

[mogster]

58. This is top headlines in Norway now - finally!

Headline reads:
- This is our Kennedy-murder
September 11. conspiracy on film.

The article mentions, among other things, the film 'Loose Change' - it even have it's own 'Fact Box'.
http://www.dagbladet.no/dinside/2006/08/03/472923.html

This is the first time Norw. msm has mentioned the questioning of 911. No doubt, it's because their American colleagues now has mentioned it.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

59. Related poll:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x101276

[DemonFighterLives]

61. Damn good cover up

Still 2/3 buying the crap.
Even some here. :eyes:

dubby's brother tied to security- :eyes:
http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0204-06.htm

clip
George W. Bush's brother was on the board of directors of a company providing electronic security for the World Trade Center, Dulles International Airport and United Airlines, according to public records. The company was backed by an investment firm, the Kuwait-American Corp., also linked for years to the Bush family.

The security company, formerly named Securacom and now named Stratesec, is in Sterling, Va.. Its CEO, Barry McDaniel, said the company had a ``completion contract" to handle some of the security at the World Trade Center ``up to the day the buildings fell down."

It also had a three-year contract to maintain electronic security systems at Dulles Airport, according to a Dulles contracting official. Securacom/Stratesec also handled some security for United Airlines in the 1990s, according to McDaniel, but it had been completed before his arriving on the board in 1998.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x10267

[nolabels]

64. Some buy the government / corporate line just because they are just lazy,

intellectually or otherwise. This is one of the four legs holding up the ruse. Environmental catastrophe or even collapse, Economic collapse (60-80 trillion of greenbacks floating around), rigged elections and a false economy based on war that needs 9/11's to keep it propped up. When the light of day shines on the devastation on just one of these man made disasters for what really means to the general population the rest will fall like a house of cards. I am betting on the environmental catastrophe to trigger it but the other ones are just as volatile. We know and have seen they no longer have enough jugglers to handle it all, so really it's just a matter of time.

[DemonFighterLives]

89. I believe it is just time as well

but things will probably get much worse before they get better.
Hang on to your lifevests, it is going to be a bumpy ride.
:hide:

[cgrindley]

65. I'll say it again

Are 1/3 of Americans insane? Mentally defective?

A well-financed and well-organized group of international terrorists, inexpensively, managed to train a group of motivated people to hijack some poorly guarded domestic airplanes and fly them into a variety of large and symbolic structures. The structures, due to unforeseen aspects of structural engineering--primarily concerned not with impact but with the resulting fires--collapsed, killing a little over 2,700 people. The international terrorists, who had a variety of well-known gripes against the USA, managed to pull off their attack due to a combination of dumb luck and the incompetence of American intelligence agencies.

Go ahead. Delete it again.

PS Kennedy was killed by Oswald, who was just a random nut.
PPS Armstrong walked on the moon.
PPPS The earth aint flat.

[mhatrw]

72. Lets' start with the first three words of your tidy little narrative.

Who financed the terrorists?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=91841&mesg_id=91841

[HughBeaumont]

73. Your message was deleted because you FLAMED others.

And you're fucking doing it again with your PS, PPS bullshit.

Dropped.

[cgrindley]

76. Asserting that Oswald shot Kennedy is Flaming someone?

That is the most absurd claim that I have ever read.

[MadHound]

79. No, but it is a foolish and untrue assertion

At least partially untrue. Way back in 1979, the House Subcommittee on Assasinations found the Kennedy assasination to be the result of a conspiracy. So perhaps Oswald did shoot Kennedy, but he had help doing so.

As far as 911 goes, I doubt that we'll ever know the full truth of events that day. In fact I imagine that 9-11 will follow much the same trajectory as the Kennedy assasination did. At first, everybody excepts the "official" explanation, but then as time goes on, more and more people will start to question events of that day. In a desperate attempt to quiet the uneasy masses, these questioning folk will be labeled as crackpots and "conspiracy theorists" and worse. However as more and more unanswered questions build, as more and more loose ends are examined, the pressure will build towards having another "full and complete" investigation of that day's events. And in fifteen or twenty years, the government will bend to the publics' will and form a special committee tasked with getting to the bottom of 9-11(though like the HSA, its real task will be to squelch the truth). And after all is said and done, this whitewash committee will be forced by an overwhelming amount of solid evidence to conclude that yes indeed, 9-11 was a LIHOP or MIHOP event. Then after that, all things 9-11 will be dropped like a rock, to sink into the oblivion of history. If we're lucky, perhaps somebody will know the entire truth of the matter in fifty or a hundred years.

[cgrindley]

80. WTF!

Okay.

Backs slowly away.

[MadHound]

81. What are you backing away from? The truth?

Don't believe me, here you can check here
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_Select_Committee_on_Assassinations>
The entire HSCA report
<http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/report/contents.htm>
Or if you want if from the National Archives
<http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/select-committee-report/>

Sorry, I mis-identified the HSCA as the House Subcommittee. My bad, it is the House Select Committee. Been a long while since '79. Anyway, a quote for you from the HSCA Final Report: "The committee conducted a three-pronged investigation of conspiracy in the Kennedy assassination. On the basis of extensive scientific analysis and an analysis of the testimony of Dealey Plaza witnesses, the committee found there was a high probability that two gunmen fired at President Kennedy."

I don't know you, therefore I don't know how old you are, but I'm old enough to remember this with clarity. Sadly, after the HSCA findings came out, the entire issue was dropped, and rather than there being a follow through on the matter, it simply was dropped, and sunk like a rock into the depths of the public concious.

[cgrindley]

83. I don't want to argue about this

I'm 40 and I'm college educated. Perhaps a little too college educated to believe in any wingnut conspiracy theories about Kennedy or 9/11. Kennedy was killed by Oswald. 9/11 was entirely carried out by Al Qaeda.

[MadHound]

84. LOL, friend I'm also college educated,

And work in an enviroment full of advanced degrees, and believe me, narrow minded, limited vision, nutter people are just as common amongst those with a college degree or three as amongst high school dropouts.

Sorry, but the truth is that a Congressional committee, whose real task was to put an end to the "conspiracy madness" about the Kennedy assasination. Instead they found such an overwhelming amount of sound scientific evidence, along with dozens of reliable witnesses, that they were forced to conclude that the assasination was indeed the product of a conspiracy, despite their reluctance to do so.

I suggest that you read the HSCA Final Report friend. Believe me, they were as reluctant to come to this conclusion as you are. But the evidence is there, it is real, and they could come to no other conclusion except that of a conspiracy.

And yes, the same dynamic is playing out with the events of 9-11. You may not want to believe it, but there is solid scientific evidence back these theories, and like I said in around fifteen-twenty years, we'll see a reluctant government committee forced to conclude that 9-11 was indeed the product of LIHOP or MIHOP.

We don't have to argue in the here and now, but I really suggest that you open your mind. Yes, there are lots of crackpots surrounding both of these issues. But if you filter them out, you will indeed find solid backing for both conpiracies.

[DemonFighterLives]

90. Honest Question

How old are you?
You have a lot to learn, don't wait!
:dem:

[FighttheFuture]

96. No disputing the terrorist point, but... how many failures...

of our intelligence agencies, FBI, etc. all along the way allowed them to pull it off?? People at lower levels were stymied from doing their jobs by well placed higher ups. If they were allowed to proceed, this whole plot may have been exposed at a number of points. Remember FBI Agent Coleen Rowley? How about Translator Sibel Edmonds? What about them running war games the same day, with a new commander at the last minute? What about Air Traffic Controlled tapes being destroyed by a higher up? Clarke being ignored and given the runaroudn. August 6th PDB, hand delivered by CIA Director Casey, ignored. Cheney in charge of "terroisim" and doing nothing (or doing all he could to ignore and suppress?). It goes on and on, and you may want to call it tin-foil, I call them damming facts screaming for a truely independent investigation.

If they are all trying to cover simple incompetence, then they have leaped up to Criminal charges to do so!

[OnionPatch]

66. And I'm guessing it's about to go higher

with the release of the NORAD tapes and the WP article yesterday.

Would that we could find out the REAL truth eventually. There is more chance of that if more people are questioning the "official" story.

[Zynx]

67. And 50% believe Saddam had WMDs.

I'm sorry, a lot of people believing something doesn't make it true.

[HughBeaumont]

74. Absolutely.

Look at the 9/11 Commission Report. Tons of people for some strange reason buy that wading-pool deep pile of whitewash and that sure as hell ain't the way it happened.

President Bush being legitimately elected . . . twice.
The War on Terror beginning, let alone going well.
The Iraq war being a success, and ending in a few months.
Fox News being "fair and balanced".

The list goes on, and on, and on . .

[SaveElmer]

75. That's like 30% less than those that believe Evolution ...

Is "just a theory" and God created the earth in 7 days!

[mhatrw]

77. And the overlap of these two groups is around 0%.

Which of these two groups do you identify with?

[SaveElmer]

78. Point is...

Polls of this nature prove nothing...expect the ignorance of those being polled.

[mhatrw]

82. Or the ignorance of the other 64%.

You know, the ones who believe the universe was created in seven days 6000 years ago.

[Alexodin]

85. The near constant equating of any conspiracy theory with crack

pot conspiracy theories is a straw man of the first order. The break in at the Watergate Hotel was the result of a criminal government conspiracy. The Iran Contra affair was a criminal government conspiracy. Our government has in fact engaged in criminal conspiracies.

Many odd ball conspiracy theories are floated by people that want to discredit the entire truth out movement. You do not have to believe in holographic airplanes and UFOs to believe that elements of government made 9/11 happen on purpose. Google the Video Everybody's Got To Learn Sometime. This video does not contain one shred of controlled demolition or missile hits the Pentagon theory it is exclusively focused on legal matters in the public record and it does a fine job of making the case for MIHOP without any tin foil whatsoever. The intro is a bit tedious but stick with it, it's worth it.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6757267008400743688&q=everybody%27s+got+to+learn+sometime

I can certainly understand anyone's reluctance to believe such an atrocity as 9/11 could have been committed by elements of our own government but because the fact that this is so unthinkable helps make it the perfect crime. Its the big lie vs the everyday little lie tactic. You or I would never tell a monstrous gigantic lie for fear of being found out so we naturally think that others would not either.

[mogster]

86. Two ministers, one British, one German, said:

Andreas Von Bülow, German minister for Technology:

I can state: the planning of the attacks was technically and organizationally a master achievement. To hijack four huge airplanes within a few minutes and within one hour, to drive them into their targets, with complicated flight maneuvers! This is unthinkable, without years-long support from secret apparatuses of the state and industry.
http://911review.com/articles/vonbuelow/tagesspiegel.html

Michael Meacher, British minister for Environment:

Was this inaction simply the result of key people disregarding, or being ignorant of, the evidence? Or could US air security operations have been deliberately stood down on September 11? If so, why, and on whose authority? The former US federal crimes prosecutor, John Loftus, has said: "The information provided by European intelligence services prior to 9/11 was so extensive that it is no longer possible for either the CIA or FBI to assert a defence of incompetence."

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/iraq/comment/0,12956,1036687,00.html

[Donald Ian Rankin]

87. 40% of Americans believe in some form of Creationism.

This statistic, if it is genuine, makes me think that America's electorate deserves its government, and makes me very grateful I'm British and not American.

[FighttheFuture]

95. If treason could be proven, then execution would be a great...

way for this country to start regaining it's sanity and standing to the rest of the world. However, proving treason will be very hard, especially while these criminals keep floating the "incompetence" defense. You see, incompetence may get you fired, or not elected, but there is nothing criminal about it. We are all fools for allowing the incompetence, so we must forgive with a grin, but we are victims when criminal acts are done. As victims, we can legitimately seek redress.

So, to defeat that, you must keep floating the fool, incompetent, stupid, etc. memes. Bush serves that purpose very well (better than anyone). Add to this his psychopathic behavior which eliminates any possibility that he would actually, at some point, try to do the right, ethical, moral thing. They are all safe from exposure from their puppet. Ain't goona happen with Bushitler.

No, unless people wake up to the realization of these bunch of thugs as CRIMINALS (as opposed to incompetent idiots), and take the steps necessary to deal with them (The Rosenberg Solution), we will always be fools, ready to be played upon again. For just that reason alone, I am willing to entertain 9/11 conspiracy and treason charges (although I have other reasons).

I have no doubt that Bu$hitCo and its backers did all they could to dampen our response to allow a 9/11 to happen to advance their real agenda; that is treason enough. Whether they did even more... Well, seeing the daily outrages from these insane bastards, I would be a fool to not consider it. For any honest, critical thinker, the question is not settled.