Most obese claim to eat healthy

[ecstatic]

ATLANTA - More than three-quarters of obese Americans say they have healthy eating habits, according to a survey of more than 11,000 people.

About 40 percent of obese people also said they do "vigorous" exercise at least three times a week, the telephone survey found.

"There is, perhaps, some denial going on. Or there is a lack of understanding of what does it mean to be eating healthy, and what is vigorous exercise," said Dr. David Schutt of Thomson Medstat, the Michigan-based health-care research firm that conducted the survey.

The survey also found that 28 percent of obese people reported snacking two or more times a day, only slightly more than 24 percent of normal weight people who said they did.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060802/ap_on_he_me/diet_obesity_survey

On edit: I am not surprised by the results. I think in America there is a lot of bad information out there regarding what is healthy and what isn't. And then some people wrongly assume that as long as they're not eating as bad as their parents did that they are doing good.

[Redbear]

1. I wonder how many of them

also think that we found WMDs in Iraq?

[Lerkfish]

20. well, I'm obese, but don't think we found WMDs in Iraq

got any snarky comments?

[wicket]

47. I'm right there with you

n/t

[Redbear]

81. So am I. The joke was about the stupidity of polls, Not the subjects.

I certainly apologize that it appeared otherwise.

[Missy Vixen]

30. Wow

>also think that we found WMDs in Iraq?<

That must have felt good. I'll bet you're just "concerned about health issues" of the obese too, aren't you?

Julie

[gauguin57]

52. kiss my fat patootie, redbear

that's just rude. congratulations if you've never had to deal with weight issues. but equating being overweight with stupidity -- that's just bigotry!

[Redbear]

82. I've struggled with weight my whole life, but I apologize.

The joke was supposed to be about stupid poll questions.

[Missy Vixen]

93. Redbear, you rock the free world

I apologize as well.

:hug:

Julie

[Redbear]

83. Apology

Im sorry that my comments seemed to be making fun of anyone.

It never occurred to me that they would be seen that way. Perhaps, because I am obese myself.

The joke was meant to be about how the media attempts to deal with real issues with ill-formed poll questions.

Anyone, who has dealt with obesity knows that eating "healthy" is only a small part of the whole issue and to even ask such a question is ridicilous.

[Lerkfish]

87. apology accepted, redbear

thanks.

I'm particularly sensitive I guess because there is a tendency in society to attach all sorts of negative connotations to obesity (among other things).
I try to call people on it. I just misperceived what you wrote, so I am sorry as well.

[MissMillie]

90. thank you

In this medium it is easy to misread someone. I apologize too.

[WilliamPitt]

2. This thread will get ugly in 3...2...1...

[MissMillie]

3. It did in the first post

but I have decided not to take the flamebait.

[mcscajun]

114. It took a Little Bit Longer, but you were right about it getting ugly.

As it always does.

Misinformation on all sides abounds, everyone's an authority, "MY way works, YOU should try it", and "all it takes is willpower", "fat people are just lazy" The same old arguments,judgments (and insults) get trotted out every time. It's soooooooooooo tiresome.

I have to question the motivation of anyone who begins these threads. They're pure flamebait, IMHO.

[Selatius]

4. "There is, perhaps, some denial going on...."

I stand behind Dr. David Schutt's words.

Also, the study itself may merit re-examination:

But the survey failed to ask people what — and how much — they ate, noted Dr. Jeffrey Koplan of Atlanta's Emory University.

"The questions leave out quantity," said Koplan, who chairs an Institute of Medicine committee on progress in preventing childhood obesity.

[Jazzgirl]

8. Therein lies the problem.

I wondered if they asked how much they eat. I have a friend who is constantly battling her weight and she can't understand why she's put on 30-40 lbs. since she's been eating "healthier". She does eat healthier....but she does eat a lot.

[LostinVA]

19. What I said in another post

[Ravenseye]

15. Quantity is key

I agree with that. I also think there is some denial going on. I talked to someone who thought they ate healthy and didn't understand why they couldn't lose weight, then I saw how much they ate for dinner, and they talked about being unwilling to give up their snack foods like cheetos. Denial, and overeating.

I used to think that people inately knew what a healthy way to eat would be, and that people just lacked the self control to do it. Now I'm thinking that, like everything else, most people are just dumb as posts, and they don't have a clue, and are capbale of rationalizing whatever they want to make themsevles not feel bad.

[megatherium]

5. I recall seeing research that indicated that obese people eat no more

calories than people of normal weight. But this research was based on food diaries kept by the participants. Later some kind of urine test was used, that gave an accurate measurement as to how many calories were consumed by the subjects. It turned out, for example, that the obese fellow who claimed to only be eating 800 calories a day was really eating 3200 calories a day. This was on ABC PrimeTime years ago.

[KurtNYC]

6. I thought the design of the study was unusual until I got to the bottom

The data about eating and exercise are part of a larger package of survey information being marketed to employers, hospitals and other customers. It is not being published in a peer-reviewed scientific journal.

First I was thinking 'do you really have to call 11,000 households to find out that people are 1) confused about healthy food and portions 2) in denial about the link between how they eat and their health ?' As they say in the article, why not ask what and how much they eat rather than leave it to self assessment? There was a similar survey done where they asked parents if there were obese children in their child's class and then they asked if THEIR child was obese. While most said there were obese children, very few said their child was.

I'm a nutritionist and I can't help looking at people and then into those people's carts at the supermarket. What I see there is that there is that you see exactly what you would expect in those carts.

Many people are confused about what choices to make in their diet but a larger number have either given up or didn't want to know in the first place. 19% of obese people read food labels -- perhaps meaning that the other 81% really don't want to know. And even if they do read the labels, the labels are allowed to be wrong by as much as 30% AND the portion size listed is often not the way people portion the item. For instance, a pint of Hagen Daz claims to be 4 portions at about 300 calories each. In reality, people are not dipping out 4 ounces of ice cream -- they eat the whole pint directly from the carton. About 1200 calories mostly from saturated fat.

[Gormy Cuss]

31. All packages should have a label with the 'I ate the whole thing' chart.

Portion sizes for food that isn't easily quantifiable are just abstractions for most consumers. It's easy to count cookies, not so easy to count popcorn. The label may say 'about half a cup' but few people other than dieters are going to haul out a half cup measure to figure that out. Your Haagen Daz example is perfect. I would hazard a guess that most people think a pint of ice cream has two or three servings at most. The problem is worse when the container has many more servings. I'd bet that those buying gallons of ice cream have an even harder time conceptualizing a four ounce portion.


The Thomson study is a perception study and given what I know about company like it I'd guess that the intent was to inform employers on the potential payback of offering nutritional counseling as a corporate benefit. I would imagine there are many other data points of interest beyond what was released to the press.

[MissMillie]

91. A lot of the food in my cart is for my kid

I don't eat Ramen noodles or mac and cheese.

I'm still overweight though. (But healthier than I have been in years)

[Uzybone]

107. And neither should your child

Nottrying to be substitute parent but things like ramen noodles and mac and cheese really have no place in anyones diet. Please don take offense Im not trying to berate you.

[MissMillie]

116. True enough, but my point is

looking at a person's cart is not necessarily an indication of how that person eats.

[unblock]

7. not surprisingly, it doesn't hint there might be legit metabolism problems

i know plenty of people who weigh twice what i do and they eat as good or better than i do. often, they eat fewer calories. and they actually exercise, which i don't. my commute includes some walking, but that's about it. i never go to the gym.

i couldn't gain weight to save my life, and others can't lose it to save theirs.

yes, there's some overindulgence and denial and lack of proper information about healthy eating and so on.

but i'm fully convinced that the vast majority of overweight people have a metabolic condition (possibly triggered by unhealthy habits earlier in their lives, but who knows) that makes losing weight, or at least keeping it off, extremely difficult -- far more difficult than it is for those of us who have never had that problem.

[dorktv]

12. I think it also has to do with money.

If you have little money then buying stuff filled with sugar gets you more bang for the buck but it also means you are eating crappier foods.

I know that I rarely am filled on eating veggies...I mean I will make myself some broccoli and then still feel hungry after I eat it. And I am not talking a teeny portion either.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

85. And age

After I turned fifty, it became really, really difficult to lose weight and keep it off, something I used to do with very little effort.

I see slender women over fifty, and they eat like birds--an apple and half a thin sandwich for lunch, and about an ice cream scoop of each food for dinner. If I did that, I'd be so crabby that nobody could approach me within a hundred yards.

[unblock]

96. yeah, and i'd get a migraine....

[RaleighNCDUer]

9. Of course, what they are eating may have been healthy in years

past, before sugar was replaced by high fructose corn syrup in virtually everything.

Of course, it may be just a coincidence that the obesity epidemic kicked off right at the time that HFCS was substituted for sugar in sodas, baked goods, cereals, etc, etc.

[Kolesar]

10. And High-fructose corn syrup started due to price supports on sugar

Food and beverage makers would be using sugar if its price was lower. gotta protect those profit margins, though!

[Lorien]

54. It's really the subsidies granted to corn growers by the Nixon

administration that has put HFCS is so many products. Corporations are actually PAID to use the stuff; that's why a 20 oz. soda often costs less than 20 oz of bottled water.

[Kolesar]

57. I have heard that the $18 Billion corn industry gets $10 Bill in subsidies

Which is also a fundamental problem with the whole "ethyl alcohol from corn" plan to replace gasoline plan.

I'll have to take your word for the HFCS subsidy.

[CTyankee]

146. That stuff is why I gave up on bottled salad dressings

Now I only use olive oil and vinegar. I am losing weight by a)changing my eating habits, b)reducing stress in my life (retiring from a high stress job!), c)increasing my exercise to 45 minutes on the treadmill 6 days a week, and d)eating a high fiber diet and that means raw veggies and fruits and whole grains and cutting back on high fat meats.

[Frustratedlady]

14. Bingo! I agree it has more to do with ingredients, than anything else.

We have seen a great change in the ingredients that are used in most foods...especially, snack foods. Few people cook from scratch, where you can avoid these additives. There are too many convenience foods and snack foods, rather than fruits and veggies in today's diets.

I believe the high fructose has to be the culprit for many people...especially, the children. It is almost impossible to avoid it in foods, today.

[KurtNYC]

21. HFCS is harder for the body to break down than real sugar

which is virtually the definition of diabetes: prolonged elevated blood sugar levels. The real curse of the diabetic, or even pre-diabetic, condition is that people continue to feel hungry inspite of having lots of caloric intake.

[ProfessorGAC]

165. It IS Real Sugar

It's fructose, and in fact, the simpler sugars like glucose, dextrose and fructose are EASIER to breakdown in the system than sucrose. So, HFCS is a sugar solution, but it's fructose, rather than sucrose. Still a sugar, just like "sugar". Your facts are in in error.

The Professor

[elehhhhna]

117. It's also portion size. Bigtime/

[Scout]

46. all colories/sweeteners are not equal

http://www.webmd.com/content/article/88/99937.htm

June 9, 2004 -- All sweeteners may not be created equal when it comes to how they affect your weight.


New research suggests that fructose, a sweetener commonly used in soft drinks and found naturally in fruit juice, may induce a hormonal response in the body that promotes weight gain.


The study showed that drinking a fructose-sweetened beverage caused levels of the hormones insulin and leptin to be lower than those found after drinking a beverage sweetened with glucose, another natural sweetener.


Insulin and leptin are hormones that send information to the brain regarding the body's energy status and fat stores.

more at link....

[wicket]

49. Why was this done in the first place anyway?

Does it have to do with the corn subsidies or is it just cheaper? I've been thinking about this alot lately.

[mcscajun]

113. Here's a great article on the background and history of HFCS

it was just published in Smithsonian Magazine

What's Eating America

[wicket]

167. Interesting article

Thanks! :thumbsup:

[1932]

11. When I was 10-14 years old I thought a BigMac was healthy.

It had vegetables and protein. Throw in the shake and you get your dairy...

[laruemtt]

17. remember when reagan said

catsup counts as a vegetable? :crazy:

[Arugula Latte]

26. Yep -- it's got all the food groups.

:rofl:

[JuniperLea]

13. you should eat like i eat

you should worship my god, you shouldn't smoke cigarettes, you shouldn't smoke pot, you shouldn't drink beer, you should exercise more, you should support your president, you should push yourself away from the table, you should push yourself away from the internet...

fuck 'em all. makes me want to order a whopper, a mini keg of IPA, grab a giant ash tray and a pack of smokes, roll a few and sit here and fuck with the minds of people on the internet.

i'm pretty sick of being told what to do. and i'm double sick of the self-righteous.

[dogday]

22. Amen to that rant

fuck the self-righteous...

[JuniperLea]

97. Hey, dogday!

Haven't seen you in a while... must be posting in opposite ends of the place:)

Yeah! Fuck the self-righteous! Damn them all to hell! We have so few freedoms left and they want us to guilt ourselves out of what remains.

I say, if it feels good and doesn't hurt anyone else, do it.

[dogday]

159. I have been lurking

with all these I/P threads, I have not been posting... Just lurking and reading....

[Missy Vixen]

28. I wish I could nominate a single post

>i'm pretty sick of being told what to do. and i'm double sick of the self-righteous.<

I would love to see a recent full-length photograph of most who are currently moralizing on this thread about the eating habits of the obese. I'm sure it would be highly educational.

Must be great to have all the answers. I surely don't.

Julie

[TrogL]

76. You asked for it

Sorry, it's all I've got up at the moment.

[LondonReign2]

79. Whoa!

You had me there until the no beer part. :)

[tomp]

129. there really are things you shouldn't do.

god, imagine all those people telling us not to kill, not to steal. when's it gonna stop.

you really shouldn't eat more than you need because it's bad for you and it's bad for the planet.

you really shouldn't do things that are bad for you because in the end we all end up paying for it.

[orion9941]

16. Many people honestly do beleive that what they are eating is healthy.

However, most people don't read labels either. Their are many foods/products that are loaded with salt, assorted fats, and especially high fructose corn syrup that are laballed as 'healthy foods.'

[LostinVA]

18. I think it's denial, but not just about obese people

I know people who claim they eat healthy, and do no such thing ("low fat" doesn't mean low calories or low sugar). They also eat way more of it than they need. And drink 10 diet sodas a day. They also claim to do vigorous exercise, when what they do is 20 minutes of easy elliptical three times a week.

I eat healthy... mainly (grrr.... I love Breyer's Double Churned Vanilla Bean ice cream!!!), and I eat a good amount of food (but not too much) and run five days a week one trails for at least one hour, and weights three days a week.I enjoy running. Know what? I'm not a skinny minnie... I'm just in decent shape.

And no, this isn't some "fatty" post... I'm talking about people who need to be taught what is healthy... they used to teach us that in health class.

[unblock]

24. breyer's double churned vanilla! mmmmmmm

i just discovered that about a month ago. stuck it in my freezer. i have 3 or 4 spoonfuls every now and again. it lasts forever that way.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

[LostinVA]

36. That's what I do, too!

After I run, I eat about five spoonfuls... yummmm... the chocolate is good, too, but the Vanilla Bean is OMG Slammin' Good!

[FlaGranny]

37. Breyers

not quite so unhealthy - I believe (at least the last time I looked) that it is still made from real sugar, real cream, real vanilla beans, etc. Nothing wrong with real food, even ice cream - unless you eat too much of it, right? :-)

[LostinVA]

67. You're right -- it is 100% real, as is Kozy Shack Rice Pudding

My two indulgences... yum....

[calico1]

151. I get Breyers with the black label:

"Breyers Natural." They pretty much are made with few, natural ingredients. Real cream, real sugar, real vanilla or chocolate. Now, Breyers makes other ice creams that do have HFCS so make sure that you get the one that says "Breyer's Natural (with the black label). :)

[LostinVA]

153. I looooove Breyer's.....

[Lydia Leftcoast]

88. Yes, back in college, the first reasonable p.e. instructor I ever had

warned us that "fit" and "thin" are not synonyms. You have great cardiovascular capacity and well-developed muscles without being thin, and you can be thin but can't walk two blocks and can't lift your own briefcase.

[LostinVA]

139. I agree with that completely

A friend of mine went to Weight Watcher's and has lost about 90 lbs. over two years... GREAT for her!!! However, she NEVER exercises, yet always brags about how thin she is. AND has the nerve to tell me SHE doesn't need to run miles every day to stay "fit," just look at her! I'm always thinking to myself, "I don't run to be 'thin,' I run to be fit and lift weights for my bones." She also doesn't eat all that healthy... she just plays with her "points." She's also always telling me I eat too much... ummm... you shouldn't be living on 1200 calories a day....

People don't get it, you're right!

[Rosemary2205]

23. Ain't it great!!!!

We live in a country with so damn much food floating around so cheaply, that we are telling POOR people to lay off the 2 for $1 fried pies at McD's.

[sgxnk]

25. most are in denial

after being a personal trainer for numerous clients, one this is abundantly clear
the vast majority of obese people are obese because fo their own personal choices, and are loathe to admit this TO THEMSELVES let alone anyone else

the ones that seek out PT's are much more likely to admit it (since they are taking a step towards rectifying the situation), but even in these case i saw OVER AND OVER again that they would deny a high caloric loading

it wasn't until they started LOGGING every single thing they ate (which i required all clients to do ), that they realized

imagine this...

the reason they are fat is because they are eating too many calories

period

it aint rocket science

a very small %age of obese are obese because of metabolic/genetic/medical issues largely beyond their control, of course

but it is not rocket science for the vast majority of others

also, this article completely confuses two things: eating HEALTHY vs. eating TOO MANY CALORIES

one can eat the amount of calories that will keep you very skinny. it doesn't follow you are eating healthy

you can also eat healthy in terms of your food choices, but simply eat way too many calories

yes, you can get fat eating very healthy foods if u eat too much of them

[zalinda]

29. And some people stay skinny

while eating huge amounts of bad food and not exercising. Explain the riddle.

zalinda

[sgxnk]

35. easily explained

metabolism

there is how much u want to eat

and how much u can eat without getting fat (hypercaloric loading)

many people can (and do) eat loads of calories and stay skinny

they are what is referred to as: "lucky"

it has to do with a # of issues, endocrinological, and like many of these issues has some genetic basis

the fact is that practically anyone CAN (if they REALLY try) eat enough to get fat

but those lucky ones have a fast enough metabolism and a high enough setpoint that they do not have to be disciplined

unfortunately for most, they will have to (lord forbid) put up with some discomfort and use some discipline to lose weight and/or not get fat

it's similar to genetic variance in weight training responsiveness that i have seen

some people are so genetically gifted, they can practically look at the weights and get stronger.

it's amazing

others have to be much more disciplined in workouts and diet to see gains

but ALL people will see gains from training

similarly, women are at a genetic disadvantage vis a vis training

on average, they have 1/10 the T (testosterone) of men, and among other factors, this means they will be weaker ceteris paribus than men

oh well

but all women can get stronger. and some are so genetically gifted, it's easier for them

[FlaGranny]

39. You said

"unfortunately for most, they will have to (lord forbid) put up with some discomfort and use some discipline to lose weight and/or not get fat"

Right there is the entire problem. People do not like to be uncomfortable. Most people cannot lose weight without feeling hungry. Hunger is a very strong evolutionary and, dare I say. lifesaving response. All organisms on the planet are hard wired to combat hunger - by taking nourishment. Having done some struggling with hunger in my lifetime, I equate it with the urge to have sex, drink water, urinate, and even breathe. The longer you put off satisfying any bodily need, the more uncomfortable you become, and the bigger relief you feel when you relieve the discomfort. Not only that, we are also genetically programmed to fill up on food when it is plentiful. Our primitive brains can not rationalize that all the plentiful food will still be there tomorrow.

Our own human successes at providing ourselves with easily obtained, plentiful food to eat causes many of us to get fat. The only consolation is that in the event of a major disaster and famine, those with the genetic predisposition to retain fat will be the survivors. No doubt this has already happened in our evolutionary history.

[sgxnk]

42. you are exactly right

success in beating obesity is like success in so many other areas of life

it often comes down to discipline, hard work, perseverance, all those basic values

it also has to do with putting off short term pleasure for long term benefit

the same type of lack of discipline that says spend yer money today for instant gratification vs. save it for deferred benefit

working out/dieting gives you (generally) deferred benefit, whereas stuffing your face gives you instant gratification

[alcibiades_mystery]

66. Finally something we agree on, sgxnk

You would think that EVERYONE had a "metabolism" issue. It's usually (not always) just plain bullshit. They eat too much and don't exercise enough. It's pretty simple, actually. Now, that's not a moral judgment. I really could care less what people do with themselves. But when every obese person in the universe claims to have metabolism or hormonal or whatever non-agent thing going on, I get good and goddamn well irritated. Wanna be obese? Own it. Just fucking own it.

How do you lose weight? Burn more calories than you take in. That means more exercise and less fucking calories. Finis.

[sgxnk]

130. well that's good

i used to be a frequent poster to a usenet group that was devoted primarily to powerlifting, olympic style weightlifting, and general weight training

occasionally there would be these PHENOMENAL flame wars between a "fat acceptance" usenet group and out group

it was frigging ugly

i am one of those people (or at least i like to think so) that always tries to look at what the science says vs. what i WANT to be true. i think SO much of people's politics and ideology is tied up in how they wish the world was vs. how it actually is, or at least how we understand with the available evidence

i also think this ties a lot into the politics surrounding medical care, HMO's etc.

for the first time in HISTORY, the poor are fatter than the middle or upper class. the CDC says that well over 60% of all chronic disease is directly related to dietary (primarily) and lifestyle choices.

[alcibiades_mystery]

138. Just one qualifier

If there's such a correlation between poor and fat, maybe the term "choice" is not exactly appropriate.

Besides, "lifestyle choice" is not scientific. Science actually has very little to say about agency; one usually has to turn to philosophy for more on that. And besides, it is not as if we can distinguish absolutely between science and ideology. Science has its own ideology that both constrains and enables what it can see and tell us about.

Cheers. I'll probably need your advice on good exercises for the inner pectorals (don't know tech name). The pecs are really getting filled out now, but they feel and look a little holllow in towards the breastplate and up towards the collarbones. Decline bench press?

[sgxnk]

143. to paraphrase economics

look, let's ASSUME free will. i don't want to get into a metaphysical wank about agency when it comes to people's dietary choices.

if i tell you, eat more fiber, and you tell me "i am not sure that free will even exists, so how can i really choose to eat more fiber" you will not be getting far with me as a personal training client :)

my point is that nobody forces calories down anybody's throat (well, pretty much)

poor, rich, whatever. you are responsible for the food you are stuffing down yer gullet

if you want to lose weight... STOP STUFFING yer face

on the second point. the fabled inner pecs.

from a physiology/exercise viewpoint - there is no such thing

muscle groups are made up of individual fibers, of course. these fibers run from insertion to origin. they (any given fiber) cannot partially contract. an individual fiber cannot contract along part of its length. it either contracts or it doesn't. a more forceful contraction is seen when a greater # of fibers in the group contract. scientists have studied this in EMG studies and even in studies where fibers are removed from the bodies and artificially stimulated.

your genetics - the relative length of tendons (what bodybuilders refer to as attachments), etc. is set. you cannot fill in the space where the attachments are. these lengths are a big part of whether people have, what bbers refer to as "full muscle bellies" and/or gaps between a muscle belly and a joint or attachment

there IS a difference between so called upper pecs and lower pecs. those are two different muscle groups with individual attachments (and innervations)

but there is no such thing as an inner pec, except as a description for the inner part of the overall muscle. physiologically, it cannot be isolated

this is also empirically verifiable by looking at pictures of bodybuilders over their years of development. i have never seen (in any of over 200 bodybuilders) ANY evidence of inner pecs being filled in

its simply not possible. it is a physiological impossibility

you do have control, to some extent, over the relative development of the pecs (upper vs. lower) and EMG studies have shown relative differences in emphasis when the angle of the bench press is changed (incline vs. flat for instance)

decline is not going to help you fill in any area where there is a length of tendon nor can you preferentially emphasize a segment of a muscle fiber

the only exception is the abs, that are a special muscle (for a # of reasons) and have different innervations and seperations. EMG studies have shown you can preferentially emphasize lower vs. upper abs fwiw, although not by a hyoooge amount

i am sorry to disillusion you. many bbers train for years with the idea that they can preferentially emphasize a fiber along its length. there ARE exercises you can do that will cause soreness in that area, though. but that does not equal preferential growth. it is due to (usually) microtears and/or stress on tendons. which is genereally not a good thing :)

you can't change yer genetics, and yer genetics is the determinant of the tendon length between your sternum and the pec

if you want verification of this (empirical) take a look at pictures of a really young bodybuilder, and then his physique 10 yrs later. you will see NO filling in in the area you mentioned

or you can look to physiology text for the scientific reason

[alcibiades_mystery]

147. Thanks for the long answer

I didn't even realize there was a controversy about it, so all this is new to me. So your answer is basically to keep doing the stuff I'm doing (a regular regimen of chest exercises) and that area will either grow or not? That sounds fine. I was looking for expertise and you provided it. I'm no expert at all, so I picked the word "inner" more or less at random. I guess "upper" would do as well?

As far as the metaphysical wank, yeah, I suppose so. I guess I was talking more about people's capability and education rather than their metaphysical agency: I'm more of a materialist myself that way. The correlation between socioeconimic status and obesity, it seems to me, requires that we modify a simple (or simplistic) version of "free will" on the matter, without getting into a metaphysical wank about agency. One must discern choices before one can make them, and one must have access to particular materials before making choices. In the end, I think we're still on the same page: it's about education and choices, but these are unevenly distributed, so falling back just on choice is in some sense reductive if it assumes parity across social class.

[sgxnk]

150. well

i may not give good answers, but lord knows i can do LONG answers

bodybuilding is full of myths, just like other fields, and the preferential emphasis one is a pretty common one. my other favorite is the "you can't use more than 30 gms of protein in one sitting/meal"

yes. if you challenge the muscle with a progressive workload - it will grow (ceteris paribus)

unless you are relatively advanced, i wouldn't worry much at all about upper vs. lower pecs or any stuff like that. the primary key is hard work at basic multijoint exercises, and good nutrition and plenty of rest.

personally - i don't bench press. but it is a good basic multijoint exercise.

at more advanced stages (depending on genetics) some will have a rather flat/thin upper chest area if they do not supplement flat bench press with some incline bench press.

but that's not very often seen until you get pretty advanced

as for the basic hard work program, i think mccallum said it best

i'm paraphrasing: "hard work at a mediocre program will give better results than mediocre work at a great program"

[XemaSab]

158. If you were going to go grocery shopping for a week's food

what would you get?

And what would you leave on the shelf?

:shrug:

[zalinda]

27. Being fat is VERY complex

Just ask the "plus size" models. They all eat healthy and exercise, but could not get down to regular size model weight unless they starve their selves or take drugs.

Here's where it really gets ugly. It is harder to lose the weight than gain it. And for some people, the weight is very stubborn. When you are losing weight you have to balance how many calories you are taking in with what your body is willing to give up. If you don't, your body will go into starvation mode and your metabolism lowers, making you have to again cut calories to lose the weight. Fat bodies are made for survival. Yes, there are people who have to work very hard to keep weight off that it becomes a real job.

I'm fat, I've been that way all my life, except sometime when I was 2 years old (I've got pictures), then I started to gain weight. In high school, I swam a mile a day and walked 2 miles home from school. I did not go below a size 14/16, and I was on diets all the time. I was even on the shot/speed diet from the doctor, and again, no smaller than a size 14/16.

A 99 cent TV dinner fills me up. I can never eat an entire meal at a restaurant. If I get egg foo young, I end up with 3 meals. I don't exercise at all, although I don't sit on my ass all day. So, why am I so fat? My menu yesterday? 300 calorie TV dinner for breakfast, yogurt, apple and about 1/8 cup smoked almonds for lunch, for supper large salad (mostly romaine)with turkey ham, and later a scoop of 1/2 the calorie ice cream. And this is typical. If I'm having a real hunger day, I'll add a turkey ham sandwich in there.

I don't know why Americans are having such a problem, because I don't think there is any one thing. I do know that gastric bypass is not the way to go. I also know that what works for one, doesn't work for the other. Diets don't work, and not every fat person sits down to a loaf of bread, dozen eggs and a pound of bacon for breakfast, as the media would have you believe. I do believe stress is a part of it, and additives in foods may as well. After all those of us who lived through the 50's remember fat basted fried eggs, fried potatoes, fried spam and canned veggies as being normal. How much bigger are we as a nation, from then?

zalinda

[KurtNYC]

45. The whole issue is complex

Your body can absorb sugars much more easily than it does fat or protein. Not every calorie you eat gets absorbed and excesses of some items simply get passed without being metabolised. Some people can eat and still be very hungry (usually for sweets); this is common in diabetics. Metabolism varies between people and so does absorption (it varies even within one person: eating before sleep = more absorption than eating early in the day). I cite these just to show a piece of how complex the whole issue is.

Additonally, eating is very tied to emotions. Virtually every holiday involves over-eating. We are mammals so there is that whole thing (food = love). And even McDonald's plays on this eg. the "Happy Meal". Denying food to yourself or others is easily seen (or felt) as denying affection.

[BadgerKid]

80. Fat actually is stored most easily n/t

[calico1]

92. Excess carbs (the starchy kind)

lead to more fat storage. Your body will always use carbs FIRST for energy. What you don't use gets stored as fat. So if you eat a lot of starchy and/or sugary things you will put on weight and/or have difficulty losing weight unless you expend a great deal of energy, which most people don't. So if you are overweight and eating low or no fat but eating tons of starchy carbs you will probably have a great deal of difficulty losing weight.

[KurtNYC]

105. I'm sorry but that is wrong.

I used the term "absorption" and you say "stored" but on the chance that we are talking about the same process:

The digestive tract was designed to accomodate all manner of natural foods. There is reason and order in the process. For instance, food undergoing preliminary digestion in the stomach leaves through the pylorus to the small intestine in an organized manner: First, carbohydrate; second, protein and third, fat. This makes sense, since carbohydrate requires more splitting work in the small intestine and is first to leave the stomach. Much protein breakdown occurs in the stomach, so it is second to leave. Fat needs a lot of digestive action and takes the longest (especially in the small intestine), so it is reasonable that they travel the slowest.

http://www.tuberose.com/Digestion.html

Further, the Glycemic Index was created because sugars enter your bloodstream very quickly. The term "sugar rush" also refers to this. Fat on the other hand, is very slow to absorb and therefore creates a longer period of satiation than carbohydrate (sugars). Part of the mechanism by which fiber reduces fat absorption (and cholesterol) is by pushing it out of the body before it can be completely absorbed.

You may be refering to the body's preference to burn available sugars before burning the body's fat stores. Which is true but the body coverts excess sugars to fat for storage so again, it isn't that body absorbed fat more easily than sugar; it converted sugar to fat for longer term storage and it is reluctant to burn that fat while there is available glucose.

[BadgerKid]

115. No. I'm thinking net energy available

The digestion of fat requires the least energy as compared to carbs and protein. (Edit: And then, yes, of course, raising insulin will (almost) always block lipolysis.)

Int J Obes Relat Metab Disord. 2002 Sep;26 Suppl 2:S12-7.

The prevalence of obesity is increasing worldwide, which indicates that the primary cause of obesity lies in environmental and behavioural changes rather than in genetic modifications. Among the environmental influences, the percentage of fat energy of the everyday diet and the lack of physical activity are two important factors, which contribute to explain the rising prevalence of obesity. In this review, several lines of evidence are presented to illustrate why dietary fat does affect obesity development. There are four factors which support a link between dietary fat and obesity development:The thermic effect of nutrients, expressed as percentage of their energy content, is 2-3% for lipids, 6-8% for carbohydrates and 25-30% for proteins. This means that the efficiency of nutrient utilization (calculated as 100%-the thermic effect of the nutrient) is higher for fat than for carbohydrate or protein.Postingestive fuel selection favours the oxidation of dietary proteins and carbohydrates, whereas dietary fats are preferentially stored as triacylglycerol in adipose tissue. Alcohol, by inhibiting lipid oxidation, indirectly favours the storage of dietary fats.High-fat diet promotes excessive energy intake by passive overconsumption; the fat-induced appetite control signals are too weak or too delayed to prevent excessive energy intake from a fatty meal.The only proof that dietary fats contribute to weight gain is to test the long-term effect of ad libitum low-fat diets. Most studies on low-fat diets show that they induce a modest weight loss in obese individuals, but their long-term effect from a public health perspective is limited, probably due to a low compliance to the dietary advice.

And

Processing protein requires the greatest amount of energy, with estimates ranging as high as 30%. Dietary fat, on the other hand, is so easily processed and turned into body fat that there is little thermic effect, perhaps only 2 or 3%. The amount of energy required to process carbohydrates falls between that of protein and fat.

http://www.caloriesperhour.com/tutorial_thermic.html

[MissMillie]

89. It is absolutely okay for you to make rules for yourself.

<i>I don't know why Americans are having such a problem, because I don't think there is any one thing. I do know that gastric bypass is not the way to go. I also know that what works for one, doesn't work for the other. </i>

I also know what may not be the way to go for you, may definitely be the way to go for someone else.

[zalinda]

108. I'm sorry if I offended by being negative

about gastric bypass, but looking at what happens after wards doesn't make sense. If you look at some of the celebrities who have had them, they are starting to gain the weight back. And, if you have to lose a certain amount of weight in order to have one, doesn't it make sense to just keep losing the weight rather than risking your life on the operating table.

I know that there are people who really NEED the operation for real health reasons, but most just seem to want a quick fix, and will regain the weight.

zalinda

[MissMillie]

112. I know a lot of non-celebrities that have had great success

with the operation and who have managed to change their lives to the point where they have kept the weight off.

I think it's unfair of you to make a blanket statement that most who go this route are looking for a quick fix. It has been my experience in talking with other gastric bypass patients that most spent years trying EVERYTHING else. Most insurances won't cover the procedure unless there are comorbidities involved (such as diabetes, high blood pressure, etc.)

I know Carnie Wilson put some weight back on, but it looks to me like Al Roker is doing pretty well, and so are Roseanne and Randy Jackson. They may not be at their smallest, but I'm sure they're a far cry from where they started.

I just don't think it's fair to judge the procedure based on a few celebrities. This procedure is saving thousands of lives every year, and is improving the quality of tens of thousands of lives a year as well.

[Nicole]

128. Carnie Wilson gained weight

when she was pregnant. I think she's back on the losing track now.

[zalinda]

132. Actually Al Roker has started to put on weight

as well as Randy Jackson. And the woman actor on ER has put back on almost all the weight she lost. And of course, Star Jones looks like death warmed over.

I'm sorry, but unless it's medically necessary, I can't buy into it. I have tried all kinds of diets myself, and failed. It has only been recently that I've found out that I have a very difficult time with wheat. I may go to my death still weighing 300 lbs, but I will be as healthy a three hundred pounder as I can be. I will never be thin, I resigned myself to that, but that doesn't mean that I can't be healthy.

The operation doesn't take away the reason that they eat, it just makes it more difficult to eat. While many thousands may have been helped, I'm betting many more thousands have failed and are right back to where they were or are dead.

Doctors are not pro-active when it comes to diets. Very few ever mention that you may benefit from therapy. It's simple, we rearrange your insides so you eat less. Quick fix and done with that patient, he's cured.

At almost 60, I have recently figured out that when I'm in physical pain I crave sweets. When I'm not in pain, I can take them or leave them. Again, being fat is complicated, there is not one plan that fits every one.

zalinda

[LostinVA]

140. Carnie Wilson medically did need it

It was literally the last resort for her. However, I believe all of the other celebrities you mentioned did not do it as a last resort. And, Star Jones lied about getting it, which is why Rosie O'Donnell took her publicly to task.

[MissMillie]

155. you're right there isn't one plan that fits everyone

that's why I don't understand why you insist that this isn't the way for some people to go.

It's not right for YOU. I can accept that. Can you accept that there are people who's lives will be longer because of this surgery? Can you accept that there will be people who have a higher quality of life because of this surgery?

You say they're right back where they started, and I think that you probably think that I'm saying they all keep all of the weight off, but that's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying that even if the some people put some of the weight back on (and I'm sure that the actuality is that it is SOME of the weight, not all) they are still probably a lot healthier than they were than when they started.

I'll never be thin either. But my life will be longer, and the quality of it will be so much better because of the 100 lbs I lost thanks to this surgery. And I am sick and tired of the misinformation campaigns. I am sick of being told I took the "easy way out". I tried EVERYTHING. Sometimes I think it's important to recognize that something drastic needs to be done, and yes, there's no guarantee. But I'll tell you what, the FACT that there's no guarantee is probably what makes me try harder--what keeps me at the gym, keeps me taking my supplements and keeps me from all the habits that will bring the weight back on. And yes, I believe that some of us NEED that.

There's nothing easy about this, and given the fact that there are no guarantees, it is NOT a quick fix. Most of us realize this. Most of the doctors who perform the procedure TEACH us this to their patients.

It's absolutely fine that you don't want to have this surgery. I truly hope that you find something that gives you what I have found. You deserve it.

But please stop making blanket statements about this. Your evidence is annecdotal at best. And your statements about what other people are thinking when they choose this procedure are unfair.

[REP]

137. It Has a Very High Mortality/Morbidity Rate

2 out of every 50 gastric bypass patients die from the surgery; the rates of death go up as the age of the patient does. Carnie Wilson, Roseanne and Al Roker are all privately insured and rich and not the patients most likely to have serious complications; the average person having the surgery faces serious, lifelong complications (malabsorption syndrome, for one) and death. Some overweight people may prefer to take their chances being overweight.

[MissMillie]

154. yes, some may prefer that

and your numbers are off by quite a bit. It's not anywhere near 2 out of 50.

I never said that everyone SHOULD have this surgery. I told the person I replied to (who said "gastric bypass is not the way to go) that she shouldn't a blanket statement like that for everyone. This surgery IS saving people's lives.

[MissMillie]

157. it looks like your numbers are for Medicare patients

who are older and not as healthy to begin with.

The rates for the general population who opt for this procedure, with an average age in the 40s is less than 1 percent.

http://www.azcentral.com/health/wellness/articles/1019obesity19.html

[elehhhhna]

118. My probably 400-plus lbs. BIL had surgery a few months ago..

so far so good , lost 80 lbs. so far, probably saved his life.

Trouble is you can stretch your tummy over time and eventually blast quite a bit of weight back on. Seems like about 2 years in, the weight starts creeping again. Some people have had that surgery TWICE already.

Moving around also helps, but we Americans simply do not get enough exercise.

Soda & booze are also big contributors to calorieloading.

[MissMillie]

156. my doctor explained the "twice" thing to me

it's called a "revision"

Apparently our bodies are totally amazing machines. When you disect the stomach in this way, often the stomach tried to re-attach itself, and succeeds.

I suppose that's a lot like a metabolism that shuts itself down when we try to reduce our calorie intake. Our bodies goal is to maintain the status quo.

[survivor999]

32. Yeah, they SAY so.

Self-assessment is the stupidest way of collecting this kind of data.

[elehhhhna]

120. Irt IS revealing though, and serves a purpose.

[porphyrian]

33. This problem isn't only eating habits.

Americans are increasingly sedentary. You can eat as healthily as possible and still end up obese if you are sitting on your ass more than 90% of your day every day. There are also other factors, such as genetics, what food is accessible, the level of poverty of a family or individual, mental health, the list goes on. I'm not denying that people have a skewed idea of what "eating healthy" means, but it's an oversimplification of reality to say this is the root of the problem.

[SmokingJacket]

34. There is a general misunderstanding about what's healthy, and

not just among obese people.

Americanized Chinese food is often considered a healthy option -- as if!

And if forty percent of *anyone* is doing vigorous exercise three times a week, I'll eat my sneakers.

[noonwitch]

38. I'm overweight and eat healthy, I just don't get enough exercise

But I have been losing weight gradually over the last year. I cut out candy, and started making most of my food and all my snacks from scratch. No chemical preservatives, no high-fructose corn syrup-I think it makes a difference. Also, I drink more water and less diet pop, I take vitamins now, and I meditate daily.

I had given up on losing weight, and made diet changes for budgetary reasons. I lost weight.

Now, if I could just get Blue Care Network to cover health club fees, I'd be set! I'm actually trying to find a cheap 10 speed bike to ride around the neighborhood. I've been looking at garage sales and haven't found a good one yet.

[deaniac21]

41. Losing weight is 95% diet unless your exercise is running 5

miles a day.

[Lorien]

51. My doctor says that it's 50/50.

a low calorie diet can leave you thinner, but without exercise you'll remain at risk for a fair number of diseases.

[deaniac21]

56. Running 3 miles burns around 500 calories. You do the math and

talk to your doctor. I have been running marathons for 10 years and I know marathon runners that are overweight because they love ice cream.

[Rosemary2205]

65. Actually

someone with metabolic syndrome (or X syndrome) -- which accounts for nearly everyone more than 40# overweight -- will burn about 1/3 of the calories in exercise that a never overweight person will burn. And it's found that doesn't change as the obese person loses weight.

This is the reason why Oprah will stay fat forever. It is nearly physiologically impossible for a morbidly obese person maintain a calorie count in the 400-800 a day range AND exercise enough burn off the calories required to get to "thinness" for the rest of their lives. Morbidly obese people can successfully lose a percentage of the weight but staying thin requires more time exercising than many are able to commit.

[LostinVA]

68. I don't consider Oprah fat n/t

[Rosemary2205]

72. She's doing a great job

Personally, I think she's done a fabulous job in lifestyle changes and I admire her willingness to share those with the rest of the world that might benefit from her experience. She successfully lost a large percentage of weight but it is creeping back up 5-10# at a time until she's gained back a good 30# -- and this is with expensive personal trainers and a personal chef. Even with the gain back she's lost probably 70-80# - which is AMAZING.

The purpose of my post was to point out the attitude that all it takes for a morbidly obese person to be a thin person is education and willpower is just not based in reality. Truly obese people have an entirely different physiology.

[noonwitch]

73. My mom claims that if she doesn't eat 800 calories a day, she'd be fat

I told her I'd choose to be fat, if my only options were eating 800 or less calories a day and being fat.

But, for me, eating less processed food seems to be working, in a slow weight-loss. Along with drinking a lot of water, that is. I just think getting some exercise will speed it along a bit, that's all, in addition to preventing too much flab and loose skin when I do hit my goal.

[Rosemary2205]

95. Take heart

the medical community has learned that the simple fact of a morbidly obese person being on a losing track - even if on a plateau it's that 1/4 pound a week - then there are great benefits as far as diabetes and heart factors. -- and losing and keeping off just 10-20% of weight can be of benefit to many people too. They are really trying hard to get truly obese people to stop having the goal of losing 100# and start having the goal of daily or weekly choices that make a small difference that will build up over time.

The truth is most of those celebrity people having gastric bypass actually don't need it. They are not overweight enough to medically warrant it. The people in desperate need to lose 100# or more FAST are mostly people at least 200# overweight.

[elehhhhna]

121. If she got more exercise she could eat more AND look/feel better.

[calico1]

84. Have you seen Oprah lately?

She looks absolutely wondeful!

[mccoyn]

102. Exercises has increased my appetite.

I've had better results with less exercise because its easier to maintain my diet. That 500 calories burnt is either replaced by 500 calories of snacking or extra portions at meals. The times I've resisted the extra calorie intake has lead to long durations of low energy (couch potato) that offset the burn.

Calorie in minus calorie out is probably the stupidest oversimplification of all the stupid oversimplified diet plans out there.

[sgxnk]

131. as a sort of kinda aside

asking your average MD for diet/workout advice is like asking your mechanic for stock tips

ok. not QUITE as bad. i used to train a guy who was an MD. and i've worked with a few others.

as a rule, the amount of nutritional/sports science training that MD's have is practically nil, and the training they do receive is usually woefully out of date, and significantly biased towards the general MD/AMA stance towards everything (im exaggerating a bit) which is "take a pill"

MD's have gotten a LOT better, but in general are complete ignoramuses on this point

what is worse, is that MD's tend to have a 'god complex' and thus can't simply say "i don't know' but will tend to pontificate and/or regurgitate their outdated and biased info to unsuspecting clients

generally speaking, sports scientists are about 10-20 yrs in front of the curve vs. MD's in the topics of nutrition.

cause they have to be

[Lorien]

50. Pretty much the same situation here. I'm only slightly overweight

(10-20 pounds, depending on whose chart you use), and I would be far heavier if I hadn't cut out all processed foods, all sweeteners, red meat, white flour, fried foods, etc. I think that cutting out the soda and processed stuff (especially anything with HFCS) made the biggest difference. I did it to control my ADD and fibromyalgia, but it's really helped to keep my weight down and made me feel better overall. Like you, I really wish that health insurance could help with health club fees-seems like it would be a wise investment! A person really can't be in great shape without a good diet AND exercise. I walk daily and do floor exercises at home, but I know that cross training at a gym would help me to shed those last pounds and tone up. The YMCA nearby is $60 a month-there's no way I can swing that!

[elehhhhna]

122. Check out some health clubs--some are cheaper than the Y.

[theboss]

40. Most people think they are "rich" too

Individuals are always the worst judge of their own situations. A buddy of mine used to complain that he only ate three square meals a day and kept getting fat. We later learned that we was washing those three squares a day down with 8 Cokes a day.

[FlaGranny]

44. Your story reminds me of customers

of my husband, who complained they could not lose weight and they only ate one meal a day. My husband, observer that he is, said that any time he was in their house, they never STOPPED eating. They snacked continuously, but only counted their one full meal as really eating. Ah well.

[calico1]

43. A lot of good points made.

One issue that has not been touched upon and which I think has a lot to do with the obesity rates today is how technology has allowed us to be less and less active as time goes on. I remember when I was a kid, the vacuum cleaner we had weighed a TON. Needed to move the TV? That weighed a ton too! And if you had to change the channel you had to get up off your butt and change it on the dial. When it snowed people shoveled the snow. In the fall people raked leaves. In the summer people weeded by hand and used non self propelled push mowers. Kids had recess. A whole hour. And we had gym class. We also played outside for HOURS when we were home. Running, jumping rope, chasing each other ....and endless games. No computers or video games. When you went to the bank you had to walk in and stand in line. No drive thrus.

Interesting that in those days there was a sprinkling of fast food joints and if we ate from there once a month that was a lot. In the summer on weekends one of the grownups would stop the ice cream truck and get us each a Good Humor bar or something. But we did not eat ice cream every day, nor any other kind of sweets. We ate from the "4 food groups" which meant more balanced amounts of protein, carbs, fruits and veggies. "Fat" was not a bad word then. We drank real milk, used real butter, full fat mayo and dressing, oil. And nobody was fat. Portions were smaller, everybody ate at the table and you talked about different things. It was unheard of to inhale your dinner or eat while on the run. People just didn't do that kind of stuff. HFCS was not yet used in those days so everything was sweetened with sugar. So you ate less to begin with but when you had it, it was the real thing.

Modern technology has brought us a lot of new things but it also has its drawbacks. We have paid in the form of less everyday activity that we used to have and wasn't even considered exercise. And by eating away from home, eating packaged foods, eating too fast and on the run.

[FlaGranny]

55. I can relate to everything you say.

And I remember eating real butter, cream, pies made with lard. No one in my small town was grossly obese. A few middle aged and elderly ladies were chubby. I can only remember a couple of kids in my entire high school (1950s) who could be considered fat (verified by looking in my yearbook). They were a rarity. It's most probably true that obesity has a lot to do with activity levels even though it is claimed that you have to exercise for hours and hours to burn a pound of fat. I have found that busyness is a great appetite suppressant, too. Something seems to be making us more hungry than we should be, maybe things like HFCS.

[calico1]

60. In my whole school I remember about

5 kids that were fat, and even they were not obese by todays standards. I grew up during the 60's and 70's so by then there were fast food places but people still didn't frequent them that much. And although both my parents worked, they cooked. Both of them knew how and we all learned at a young age. That is the other thing that I find really amazing today....the amount of adults who do not know how to cook from scratch. Activity definitely has a lot to do with keeping the weight on. I put on about 15 lbs. because I had a really bad case of plantar fasciitis on one foot and the pain was too excruciating for me to go for my walks. I started back up recently as my foot got better. It most definitely has a lot to do with staying in shape. But notice how people in the "old days" had so many activities that many people no longer do (raking, push mowers, etc.) that thought there were a lot less people "exercising" there were less people that were overweight.

[Withywindle]

135. I think that has a lot to do with it!

I remember in my elementary school and intermediate school classes (late 70s, early 80s) there were really not very many "fat" kids, and the ones who were teased as "fat kids" then would certainly not be considered morbidly obese today! The, er, ballooning of the American populace really is a recent phenomenon, which is what makes me skeptical of those who say it's "genetic." For a very few, sure. But where where these genes 20 years ago?

The area I grew up in is rural, white, and poor--was then and is now--and the proportion of obesity today has skyrocketed at a terrifyingly rapid rate from what I remember.

I'm inclined to think it's mostly supercheap, processed foods with bad ingredients. But I also think it's the desire people have to not "deprive" themselves of what little pleasures they can have, and if 10 Cokes a day costs less than 10 drinks of bottled water a day, dammit, they'll take it! (I'm scrawny at least in part because I enjoy cigarettes more than sugary things--which is certainly no healthier! :P)

Also, that whole three-big-meals-a-day thing made plenty of sense in a time when the majority of Americans did at least some physical work. Not so much when it's all sedentary and computer and desk-bound. If you're not a farmer or a bricklayer, don't eat like one!

And finally...I am aware of how much exercise I get every day simply by virtue of being a carless urbanite. I walk a LOT, and it's normal. Realize that 30 or so years ago, a lot MORE people lived that way than do now.

[elehhhhna]

124. Another factor: Everybody smoked back then.

[elehhhhna]

123. fruit & veg were affordable then, too.

[JitterbugPerfume]

48. this is why I love weight watchers

they kinda FORCE you (gently) to be brutally honest


works for me

[npincus]

59. hey, good for you!

I put on a lot of weight around my pregnancy, and lost 43 lbs on Weightwatchers! My obstetrician blessed it, too! (I started WW during my pregnancy)

It's a great diet plan/ life plan... it's not only WHAT you eat, it's how MUCH you eat. When I went on Weightwatchers, I didn't give up a damn thing that I liked; I just ate a lot less. And, I also exercised more. I'm thinking of going back on to lose another 20-30.

I did it online- never went to a meeting. But a friend went from a size 14/16 to a size 6 on WeightWatchers aned said for her, meetings were a MUST. What about your experience?

[JitterbugPerfume]

62. I do it online too

and I love it ! I just COULD NOT get on scales and weigh myself in front of strangers

[calico1]

69. Nobody but the staff sees how much

you weigh. The scale is in front of the counter or desk, but the reader is behind and only the WW staff member can see that. They also don't shout out your weight: "Hey! Guess how much Susie weighs?!" LOL. Its very discreet. Don't not go to meetings because of this. With a good leader you can really get a lot out of the meetings. And get tips from other members.

[gauguin57]

64. WW is the only thing that's EVER worked for me. It's the healthiest thing

out there. It teaches you how to eat well for the rest of your life -- without ever having to resort to packaged foods if you don't want to.

And I HAVE to go to the meetings. Keeps me honest. But you must find a meeting with in inspiring leader and with members who can have a sense of humor about this struggle we share.

[mtnsnake]

53. I may be fat, but you're ugly...only I can lose the weight!

I saw that on a bumpersticker once and laughed my ass off. I think it's the best comeback for anyone who gets asked by some skinny wiseass friend if you've put on a few pounds lately.

[Fountain79]

58. In their minds they probably are...

but look at the things people eat thinking it is healthier. You go to a fast food restaurant and eat a grilled chicken sandwich and it is loaded with mayo. Salads might be lauded with a lot of cheese and croutons. Some people put an overreliance on diet soda. I remember working at a movie theater when I was a teenager and it never failed....every now and then there was a larger woman who would order a large butter popcorn(popped with coconut oil), nachos, candy, and then a small diet pepsi.

Btw..this coming from someone who could definitely stand to lose about 30-40 pounds.

[calico1]

63. I had a friend who would always order

the fish fillet from Burger King (I think). This thing was deep fried and fattier than a burger but she thought that because it was fish it was a healthier choice. I have also known people to eat a tuna or chicken salad drowned in mayo because its "healthier" than eating something fried or a burger. So many people today are just not informed and don't really know what is fattening and what isn't.

[FlaGranny]

74. Hey, I do that - BECAUSE

I got used to diet sodas and actually like them better. I never eat buttered popcorn and candy maybe once or twice a year, but I do order diet Coke or Pepsi whenever I eat out. I still do. If I wanted a doughnut and a soda I'd still order a diet soda. ;-) Sometimes I have a rum and coke and I always have it with diet soda. I don't do the diet sodas for dieting. I just like the taste better.

Edit: Believe me, I've wondered at times whether anyone is wondering why I'm ordering a diet soda with pizza.

[Deja Q]

61. Eating healthy is one thing. EXERCISE is another.

I think Americans' idea of jounalism, as what it means to be a good worker and what it means to have to lay people off, has been perverted over the course of time.

[ItNerd4life]

70. Size of food portions

I think the size of the portions plays a part in it. If a person is at a buffet and given a small plate, they would probably eat less because a filled small plate contains alot less food than a filled large plate. I think people eat based upon the size of the portions, not on the number of portions.

If a person is given a choice between a small candy bar or a large candy bar, they would eat the large candy bar. They could then tell themselves they only ate 1 candy bar.

[SoCalDem]

71. "claim".....and "vigorous"..... just another article that blames

people and does not address the facts that our FOOD is different..

Granted, we are not as physically active, but then our JOBS are often greater distances from home, and if one spends an hour or more GETTING to work, and is seated all day long, and gets home at 6-7 PM...and does this for 5-6 days straight EVERY week, just how "easy" is it to exercize?


and


Schools cut most physical education programs, so kids aren't as active either.. and if Mom & Dad are away from home 12 or more hours a day, lots of latchkey kids are TOLD to stay inside until Mom & Dad get home...


and


our foods are chock-full of HFCS...even in foods that don;t NEED to be any sweeter.

I have a sneaky suspiscion that a bunch of scientists somewhere were put in charge of figuring out what to do with a bunch of corn byproducts that they could not get rid of, and they decided to sell it to food corporations... Some lobbyists must have made a bundle the day some regulations changed that allowed it..

[TrogL]

75. I've watched these people "eating healthy"

at the local equivalent of Denny's.

Breakfast:

• pancakes supersized (drowned in syrup)
  
• bacon (drowned in grease)
  
• toast (slathered in butter)
  
• coffee (loaded with sugar)
  

Lunch:

• chicken wings (fat-fried)
  
• salad (oil dressing)
  
• lite sandwich c/w fries (drowned in grease)
  
• pie (covered in whipped cream)
  
• coffee (loaded with sugar)
  

Supper:

• shrimp appetizer
  
• supersized entree (drowned in grease)
  
• desert (loaded in sugar)
  
• beer (several)
  

at which point they tip the waitress about 1% for lugging all this food and putting up with their bullshit, wallow huffing and puffing to their car to drive the two blocks to the ritzy exercise place where they trudge for five minutes on the treadmill on its slowest setting and call it "exercise".

[Ms. Clio]

77. Interesting article posted here yesterday shows that obese people may eat

just about like "normal" people, but a hormone called ghrelin appears to be the culprit.

Anti-obesity vaccine' developed

(snip)
The vaccinated rats gained less body weight - specifically body fat - and the reduction was associated with the levels of antibody present.

The reduction in weight gain occurred despite the rats eating and drinking normally, indicating that the inhibition of ghrelin was having an effect on the animals' metabolism.

The researchers said the results demonstrated that active immunisation against ghrelin could be used to control weight gain and accumulation of fat tissue in mammals.

Study leader Professor Kim Janda said: "We believe that the active form of ghrelin is what we are blocking but we can't say for certain that's the only effect.

"Ghrelin slows down the metabolism so the vaccine is affecting that and also fat storage. This is a promising bit of science."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/5232150.stm

[elehhhhna]

126. How do we explain the that Europeans are so much slimmer than Americans.

One can ID the US (& Canadian) tourists easily. They're obese. Why wouldn't Europeans have this condition?

[conflictgirl]

134. Combination of food additives and access to public transit

Many of the food additives most commonly used in N. America (including growth hormones in dairy) are illegal in the EU. Genetically modified food is also banned in parts of Europe. I am convinced that the biggest reason for obesity in the US is all the strange ingredients in our food. The rise in obesity coincides pretty closely with the rise in certain food additives, like BGH in dairy and high-fructose corn syrup. Have you read The Omnivore's Dilemma? The number of foods that contain some corn-derived ingredient is absolutely staggering. It's not normal for humans to consume that much of any one particular food and there haven't been any major studies to see what effects it has on us.

In addition, public transit is much more widely available in European cities than it is here. That provides the exercise component missing in the US and Canada. Some European countries still have traditions allowing things like longer lunch breaks (though as I understand it, this custom is decreasing, particularly in the cities) which enables people to prepare/eat better meals, and likely reduces stress as well. Stress has been proven to be linked to weight gain even without an increase in caloric intake. Stress raises cortisol, which causes the distribution of weight around the middle in particular.

I'd also be interested to know if the rate of medication use, particularly antidepressants, is as high in Europe as it is here. Antidepressant use is very high in the US and most of them can cause weight gain.

The American obesity epidemic can't be explained simply by eating too much and exercising too little. Those are certainly factors that can't be denied, but there's a lot more than that.

[elehhhhna]

160. Euros also work less hours. Lots less. They also exercise portion

control. We don't.


Many, many thin-to-average-weight people have VERY crappy diets and don't use public transportation, though. I'm the Ectomorph Poster Child, and the struggle to gain weight is a story I won't bother sharing, as people wave that problem off COMPLETELY. No sympathy to be had on that subject.

While many, many skinnies DO eat fries & pies and bacon, etc., and don't get "enough" exercize, what we DO do that's different, in my experience, and painting broadly here, is the following: fidget, be busy ( physically) , avoid mindless television watching, avoid pop, have a sense of appropriate portion size, and don't habitually, mindlessly eat between meals. We SIT down to eat...even snacks! We stay hydrated ( IMO lots of people confuse thirst with hunger...thus eating doesn't satisfy their cravings). The overweight people that I know well don't do most- if any- of these things.

[karlrschneider]

78. I had a good friend who weighed 300+ lb.

He would regularly go to one of the local 'all you can eat' buffets and eat 3 or 4 plates of food,
and always had a "diet Coke" to go with it. He died 2 years ago. He was 48.

[kwyjibo]

86. How difficult is it to say "healthily?"

I get so sick of seeing "eat healthy," as if healthy is something you can stuff into your face like a sandwich.

[FlaGranny]

94. It's a little like saying

"drive safely" instead of "drive carefully." ;-)

[JuniperLea]

99. Take it to the 10 items or less lane, please... n/t

[karlrschneider]

110. If I wanted to eat healthy food, that frisky cow out in the pasture

wouldn't be too happy as I bite chunks out of its butt.
:eyes:

[walldude]

98. Bwhahaha I've been touring state fairs and can safely

say that most people eat garbage. At almost every fair I see a booth offering deep fried Twinkies, Ding Dongs and Oreos. Deep fried Twinkies. Think about that for a moment ;)

[elehhhhna]

127. CICI's now offfers macaroni & cheese topped PIZZA...

surely a sign of Armageddon.

[conflictgirl]

136. Yes, and of course everyone eats at a fair every single day!

That explains everything! I mean, look at Thanksgiving, many people eat five courses that day and get so stuffed they have to unbutton their pants! No wonder people are so obese when they eat excessive amounts of food or especially unhealthy foods on rare occasions!

:sarcasm:

I'm about 20 pounds overweight and I've never been to a fair and I think deep-fried Twinkies sound disgusting and don't eat Ding Dongs or Oreos. But because they serve food like that at state fairs, I'm sure that somehow explains why I'm overweight. :eyes:

[elehhhhna]

162. honey that wasn't a personal attack on you...

It's just that the advent of fried twinkies is one of the signs of Armageddon, that's all. This crap is what passes for Innovative cuisine now.

[Generator]

100. I'm exercising right now

Really. Exercising my right to pointless pithiness that (at least) I get a guffaw out of that SURELY burns a calorie or two. And my fingers are very slim.

[Odin2005]

101. Many of us obese people get a good amount of excercize in...

...the main problem is being a person with a low metabolic rate and a big appitite in a society where food is abundant.

[survivor999]

103. Probably, most alcoholics would say

They drink just a little.

[Quantess]

104. Many of them DO eat healthy.

They eat healthy all day long!

[slampoet]

106. A LOT of this is actually the ingredients.

Whenever I visit Canada and stay for more than a week and whenever my partner visits Mexico or Italy, guess what happens?

We Loose Weight!

Sometimes we loose as much as 20-40 pounds apiece! And it can't be because we are eating less, after all we are on vacation. We aren't walking more than when we visit NYC or Seattle either.

[sweetheart]

109. people are dying of consumption

In olden times, it was the name for a plethora of breathing illnesses, like TB,
but today, it is the craven inability to live without seeking fulfillment... to
be happy rather than seeking happiness, and the harder they seek, the more hard
the muscles, and toned the latest paycheque, whether they embrace the condition or
not, it is consumption, grabbing at dreams and gosts, and to cover it up,
the emptyness of not consuming plentily, a burger and giant super fries.

[Codeine]

111. Eating healthy foods

and eating healthy portions are two different things. A sandwich with veggies and lowfat lunchmeat is pretty healthy, three of them and a Coke to wash it down ain't. Watch people at restaurants -- the amount of food a typical patron shovels into their mouths and then shoves down their throats with both butter-dripping hands is repulsive.

[pitohui]

119. snacking IS healthy

if you follow us thin people around you notice pretty quick that we graze all day long

the giraffe who grazes all day long is skinny, the elephant who grazes all day long is fat

it's genetics i think but there's no $$$ to be made admitting it

[w8liftinglady]

125. I will have gastric bypass surgery 8/14-I work out 5 days a week

I'm one of the unlucky ones who has bad genetics.i have spent thousands in my lifetime trying to lose weight.There are things that we simply do not yet know about obesity.Judge not,people-lest ye be judged.And F* the people who feel the need to trash the obese.I AM one of the people who can't maintain or lose weight on 1000 cal/day.Debate this as you wish.Those who battle this have my sympathy.

[pitohui]

133. one of my friends had a terrific result from this surgery

i was scared for him because he was in his late 60s but it was amazing -- not just the weight loss but suddenly he is off his duff and traveling all over the americas and doing things he couldn't be arsed to do before the surgery

i'm like...wow!

it has really turned his life around and i wish the same good result for you!

[elehhhhna]

163. My BIL is doing FANTASTIC, 4 months out.

Saved his life, and probably his mind, too.

[LostinVA]

141. You have to eat more than 1,000 a day to lose weight

I'm not talking about YOU specifically, just that I don't think many people realize you have to eat to lose weight. I know people who keep their calories to 800-1400 a day, and then freak out because they aren't losing weight... you cannot lose weight like that -- your body goes into survival mode -- like min a concentration camp.

*sigh* I wish they would start teaching REAL health classes at school, and even at workplaces.

[calico1]

144. Me too.

If we went back to teaching nutrition in schools and providing healthy lunches and PE classes that would help so much. What we have now is a generation of adults who have learned nothing about nutrition and really don't know everything they should know. And they are having children. My step daughter in law is one of them. She has a 3 year old. She's always got a baby bottle for her filled with Coke or Ginger Ale. She buys her cookies, crackers and all kinds of snacks. They go out to eat a lot and she will order fried chicken fingers and french fries for the baby. Sigh..........

[LostinVA]

145. That's horrible! Especially the sweet drinks in the bottle

The little thing will have rotten teeth, among other health problems... *sigh*

[calico1]

148. The thing is I am her step mom, not

her mom. Her mom is my age but has pretty much the same mentality. And her dad, my fiance doesn't really know much about good nutrition either. He wasn't raised the way I wa. I have to shove vegetables down his throat. LOL. If I were to leave it up to him he would eat pizza and Chinese takeout every night. I have to constantly be after him. He thinks that because he runs every day and is not overweight he is healthy. So with regard to the little granddaughter I have to tread lightly. Aside from the terrible food they eat, she really is a super mom. The dad is very good too. They just don't know much about how food affects you. I drop little hints here and there and when they come over I offer the baby healthy stuff. She loves fruit and vegetables and I make a big deal out of it to see if they get thg hint. But if I start lecturing her about being a good mom, etc. then I come off as a bitch. Again, deep sigh................

[elehhhhna]

164. SO TRUE! A Dr. friend advised me to GAIN weight this way:

Cut back about 500 calories per day for a week or so. Then go back to normal eating patterns. It worked.

[elehhhhna]

161. Wish you well and future excellent health and general hot-lookingness!

You GO, girl!

[Vinca]

142. I don't have the answers, but I think heredity has more to do with

it than anything. My brother and I have always battled weight. He's been a marathon runner while being a good 50 lbs. overweight (or more). I'm not kidding. He ran Boston, New York and many others. He trained all the time, running dozens of miles every week. He's still heavy. As for me, just this week my husband and I decided to "watch what we were eating" to take off a few pounds. He gave up snacks at night and is already down about 4 lbs. I'm eating 1,000 cal. a day, mostly veggies, low fat and haven't lost an ounce. There must be a "slob" gene.

[calico1]

149. Don't go too low on calories.

This is a big misconception among people trying to lose weight..... that if they just cut way back on calories and exercise even more, they lose weight. Its not that simple. And in fact you can really screw up your body that way. Try to focus instead on eating healthy and eating when you are physically hungry and stopping when you are satisfied. (I know, easier said than done). Don't eliminate all fat or eat unbalanced amounts of anything (like carbs). You also need protein so don't cut that out. Weight lifting will help you more in the long run than aerobic exercise because if you build more muscle you will automatically burn more calories because muscle consumes a lot more calories than fat does. Not saying don't run or do aerobic exercise but the weight training is very helpful.

[Vinca]

166. Thanks for the advice.

When I get hungry I go out to the garden and graze on cherry tomatoes. Most of my problem, diet-wise, is in my head. When I'm not "on a diet" I have Kashi oat cereal or Go Lean Crunch (great cereals, by the way) and maybe a banana for breakfast and I'm fine until lunch. When I put my mind in diet mode, I eat the same breakfast, but I'm starving an hour later. I'm trying to get the diet notion out of my head - that's my downfall. I'm working on it.

[Atman]

152. I see you've met my friends!

Just this weekend we had dinner with a couple who is not that much older than us -- we're mid forties, they're early/mid fifties, but they act like "the grandparents." Our mutual friends have made the same observation. Mid fifties, but you'd swear they're ready for the home. Because they both carry bellies the size of wheelbarrows. Both have health problems as a result. Yet, they both insist they're eating healthy foods and cant' understand why they're so fat.

They told us this one day at lunch. The two of them consumed two baskets of cheese bread before their lunch arrived. Lunch was a calzone the size of a Buick for him, and for her a giant "salad" for her that probably had more calories than a Big Mac. They don't do anything active. My wife is an APRN, so they're always asking for health advice and if she can get them their cholesterol and heart meds for cheap. As she's told them many times, even is she could get the meds for them, they need to get the bellies down! "But we eat healthy!" they say. It's bizarro world. If you ate healthy, you wouldn't have a wheelbarrow strapped to your belly!