Hezbollah, Israel: Was it worth it?

[oberliner]

Hezbollah:

You succeeded in your objective of driving the Israelis out of Lebanon in the year 2000. You chose to remain a militia group, independant of the Lebanese army after that success. A critical objective for your group became to force Israel to release all Lebanese and Palestinians prisoners it was holding. To that end, you took two Israeli soldiers in the hopes of being able to exchange them for those prisoners.

Israel, however, did not agree to such an exchange and instead invaded Lebanon. This invasion has resulted in the deaths of large numbers of innocent Lebanese civilians, including countless children.

Was taking the two Israeli prisoners worth all of this?

Israel:

You withdrew from Lebanon in 2000 to the satisfaction of the UN. For once, you had a UN resolution that you were actually in favor of, and international pressure was being placed on Hezbollah to disarm. Hezbollah, then, seized two of your soldiers and demanded an exchange of prisoners, an action you had agreed to in the past.

Instead you chose to attack Hezbollah and invade Lebanon. In the course of that invasion, your forces have killed large numbers of innocent Lebanese, including countless children. You've lost any sympathy you may have had in the broader international community and have brought condemnation upon yourself from numerous international humanitarian organzations.

Was not negotiating a prisoner exchange worth all of this?

[Mass]

1. Excellent thread.

[Redstone]

2. Well, now. Good. Balanced. though I'll bet that 75% of the replies to this

DAMN GOOOD post will begin with something like: "Well, yeah, but the Israelis yack yack yack..."

That's the most balanced post I've seen yet. Let's see how many other DUers can be as balanced.

Recommended.

Redstone

[Mass]

3. And 25 %

that Israel was right and should not be criticized. Which lets very little place for people who want to try to think about a solution instead of excommunicating people.

[Redstone]

4. I did say the post was balanced. I'm talking about the bulk of sentiment.

There's plenty of blame go go around, and I just believe, as does the OP, that it should be shared equally.

though I guess you don't. That's OK.

Redstone

[Mass]

8. I was not criticizing you. I was making the point that this post, which

is perfectly balanced and excellent, will be ruined by extremists from both sides.

[Redstone]

13. Well, of course it will. That's the way of DU these days. And why I'm

glad I'm going to The Land Of No Internet in a few days.

Redstone

[Disturbed]

5. It isn't over.

I suspect that this will go on for another three weeks.

[mom cat]

18. It is as "fair and balanced "as Fox News.

[lastknowngood]

6. Ever since the right wing killed their Prime minister to start the

road to the expansion of Israel to beyond the river this has been planed. Just as PNAC planned the wars in Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Iran, Labia and Sudan. Connect the dots the same right wing assholes in both countries are part of the same international rise of world wide fascism.

[joemurphy]

11. Labia? You can't mean we have a quarrel with Labia! LOL!

[Recursion]

15. God I hope not...

I love the labia. DU ladies, take note...

[Truthiness Inspector]

7. Nice idea

but I disagree.

If the prisoner exchange went as "planned" it would be Hezbollah kidnapping 2 Israeli soldiers to manipulate Israel into a disproportionate (yes, that word) number of Hezbollah prisoners released - ones who would only return to attack Israel all over again.

Rinse and repeat. Israel would be manipulated forever, and would lose.

[breakaleg]

10. true... but

Israel has made prisoner exchanges in the past, which likely led Hezbollah to believe they would do it this time as well.

And Israel has kidnapped Hezbollah operatives in the past also for the purpose of exchange of an Israeli soldier.

This is their pattern.

[azurnoir]

12. Israel will "lose" regardless

even if they "win" militarily. What would this "win" consist of, Hezbollah is not just in Lebanon, so are they to make war on every country supporting Hezbollah? Kill and kill and kill till no more threats to Israel exist? Hezbollah is gaining support at a faster rate then Israel (I believe) and that trend will continue as long as Israels occupation of Lebanon does.

[eFriendly]

14. Israel is losing now.

Although Israel may be too caught up in what it's doing right now, but:

1) Israel has lost any kind of a moral high ground it may have once had.

2) Israel has lost in the arena of public opinion.

3) Israel has lost in the eyes of the International Community.

4) Israel has inflamed anti-Israel/anti-American (because everyone in the world knows who supplies Israel with it's WMD's) sentiment in the ME.

And cowardly killing sleeping mothers and babies doesn't help Israel's cause one bit, either.

[Recursion]

17. Nobody forced Israel to release 3000 for 1 + 2 dead

They probably could have talked that down (frankly I think Hezbollah sent professional negotiators who expected Israel to do the same; they did not).

Hezbollah is a fact. An unfortunate and aberrant fact, but still a fact. The sooner Israel realizes this, the sooner they can come to an understanding with them.

[breakaleg]

9. while I agree that this post is very balanced...

I wonder why that is worthy of commenting on.

We are here to discuss and debate current events. We each have opinions that will likely change over time and especially as new events occur. Is it necessary that we ensure our posts are always balanced? Sometimes we change our views when the "other side" makes a valid point, and that can sometimes be a good thing.

I think what is necessary is that the posts be respectful.

[mom cat]

16. Excuse me. The IDF soldiers were captures in South Lebanon , not in

Israel. All the early reports say so.
http://www.hinduonnet.com/fline/stories/20060811005800600.htm

[Disturbed]

19. Please don't let a fact get in the way of Propaganda Lies.

Hezbullah attacked Israel and Israel has a right to destroy Lebanon and kill/maim as many civilians as they want to.

[Mass]

20. This is NOT what the OP says.

DId you even read it?

[mom cat]

24. I am sick of the lying and the dying. Just like the Iraq war, the

flimsy pretwxe is full of holes.

[Mass]

21. Where did the OP say it was in Israel. Another one who cannot read.

[mom cat]

25. So you admit that the IDF soldiers were taken in Lebanon?

[Mass]

26. Did I ever say one way or the other ? Did the OP? I dont have to admit

anything to somebody who is accusing people out of the blue.

Sad that you have to agress people like that.

[Igel]

27. All the early reports based upon

one non-eye-witness Lebanese police report.

Which would provide beaucoup political coverage for Lebanon and Hezbollah, but hasn't ever been used.

[Mass]

22. This thread is a sad example of what we see on DU every day. If you

do not say that Israel is equivalent to Nazi Germany, you are called pro-Israeli and liars.

No criticism other than that will ever satisfy some people here.

[mitchtv]

23. I like the balance, a true liberal

equal condemnation. As Mr R. says there is plenty of blame to go around. Israel , however, has so much more to lose.

[KoKo]

28. The questions you pose are exactly why a Referee was needed Immediately

The situation shouldn't have been allowed to get out of hand like this.

If we had a stronger State Department with real diplomats and not Bush sychophants or pay offs a person could have gotten on the phone immediately and then gone to the countries and "behind the scenes" negotiated.

Bush & Co. are Grandstanders. They have to blab everything they intend to do in foreign policy and couch it in terms of "Bringing Freedom and Democracy, not negotiating with terrorists..yadda, yadda."

I've never seen such a blabby, bullying President. He has no idea that he isn't the Dictator but that we have a "Representative Government" and we pay salaries to a State Department that's supposed to give Ms. Rice advice and counsel.

So...it got blown out of hand with no Referre. But, many of us believe that was planned by the NeoCons agitating. And who knows what kind of stuff is going on behind the scenes that this whole situation got out of hand.

[Chulanowa]

29. "Of course it was worth it!", they say...

"We've each convinced each other that our dicks are very large. Just look at all the civilians crushed beneath their mighty hew and girth!"

[wellst0nev0ter]

30. Hezbollah: Yeppers!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x2427124

Weeks of indiscriminate bombings, killing of civilians, killing of children, destruction of all but the most upscale parts of Lebanon where westerners might be inhabiting, all for NOTHING!