Why do the NY and London Times claim Hezbollah fires from civilian areas?

[oberliner]

Anyone have any theories on that?



Edit to add my own theory:

Because it is an important element of the conflict that should not be ignored.

[Taxloss]

1. Because it's true? Maybe? Possibly?

There was a reporter on BBC News 24 saying much the same thing a moment ago.

It might, just might, be true.

[jpkenny]

30. And where might the US and Israeli military bases be located within their

own countries? And from where would they be firing if truly invaded? Besides NORAD, tell me where there military bases within the US that are not within 100 mile radius of civilians. How bases do you live near? In Washington DC alone I can name at leasst three. And if the WH were attacked from the air, from where would the anti-aircraft missiles be fired? This is a specious argument that Israel and the US use to fight the propaganda wars during conflict. There was no place in Iraq that insurgents could use to fight back except in civilian areas because that is where the US invaded.

[Taxloss]

31. And yet the antis seem to think that Israel could have conducted this war

without civilian casualties. Hezbollah's "bases" are not like American military bases at all - the targets we are talking about are mobile gun emplacements, not vast complexes. And 100 miles is excessive - a quarter of a mile is enough with modern weaponry. But the Hezbollah positions snuggle up a lot closer than that to civilian and neutral buildings.

Hezbollah cares as much about Lebanese civilians as the IDF does. Awful, but true.

[Missy M]

2. No, do you?

[uppityperson]

3. why don't you write them and ask?

[SPKrazy]

4. Because They Do!!!!!!

that's my theory on that

[Redstone]

5. Uh, because they DO? Just maybe?

What a dumb question.

Redstone

[sweetheart]

6. is lebannon a civilian country:?

Then hmmmm... are they shooting from somewhere off-planet? Isn't it fekkin' obvious?
They're shooting from lebannon, and they're shooting "at" lebannon escalating a war
that has shown the IDF to be incompetent and dangerous. (leadership).

[oberliner]

10. Attacking from between houses and inside mosques

is what the two newspapers claim Hezbollah in doing.

[sweetheart]

13. fog of war

its all lies, everything on mainstream media. The truth is that
more people are dying in our own streets from gun crime than international
wars we talk about... every year.

In 2003 (the most recent year for which data is available), there were 30,136 gun deaths in the U.S:

* 16,907 suicides (56% of all U.S gun deaths),
* 11,920 homicides (40% of all U.S gun deaths),
* 730 unintentional shootings (2% of all U.S gun deaths),
* 347 from legal intervention and 232 from undetermined intent (2% of all U.S gun deaths combined).
http://www.ichv.org/Statistics.htm

[EFerrari]

7. Because they are lying sacks of sh!t that have always sided

with the corporate interests against reality.

Sorry.

[Bluebear]

14. Sing it.

[EFerrari]

21. But, what does everyone else think?

lol

[Kagemusha]

8. Civilian areas can be defined pretty damn broadly

It's a militia. They like, live there. It's not strange to fire from civilian AREAS in and of itself. The arty into S. Lebanon during Grapes of Wrath was what, from a grape vineyard. Is that not a civilian area? But is it a populated area? Well Israel's a small country, isn't it? So's Lebanon.

It's a non-issue. "area" is too broad a word.

[oberliner]

9. Area is too broad a word

How about from in between houses and inside mosques?

[Kagemusha]

15. I um, challenge someone to try firing a rocket from inside a mosque.

I doubt anyone will return to claim a bet from that one.

[niallmac]

11. Today one of my co workers said that rockets were seen

coming from the building that was bombed in Lebanon with all the kids in it.
Is that true? I don't see any reference to that on CNN etc.
If that was true wouldn't it be all over the media circus?

[Kagemusha]

16. Did he say the pics of dead kids were fake too?

Even the IDF doesn't claim that rockets came from the BUILDING itself, but from nearby. Katyushas can be fired from the back of a truck for instance.

[niallmac]

20. Understood. I am surrounded by people who believe in war.

I doubt anyone can paint a picture of a peaceful Middle East wrought
by war. Hatred and violence beget the same does it not? *

[EFerrari]

23. Red Cross said, it didn't happen. n/t

[oberliner]

33. International Red Cross website makes no such claim

Do you have a source?

[EFerrari]

34. Hmm. It was reported. Let me see if I can dig it up. n/t

[EFerrari]

35. I think I actually heard this on CNN, but here is one link:

MIDEAST:
'No Hezbollah Rockets Fired from Qana'

Dahr Jamail

QANA, Aug 1 (IPS) - Red Cross workers and residents of Qana, where Israeli bombing killed at least 60 civilians, have told IPS that no Hezbollah rockets were launched from the city before the Israeli air strike.
The Israeli military has said it bombed the building in which several people had taken shelter, more than half of them children, because the Army had faced rocket fire from Qana. The Israeli military has said that Hezbollah was therefore responsible for the deaths.

"There were no Hezbollah rockets fired from here," 32-year-old Ali Abdel told IPS. "Anyone in this village will tell you this, because it is the truth."

Abdel had taken shelter in a nearby house when the shelter was bombed at 1 am. When the bombings finally let up in the morning, he went back to the bombed shelter to search for relatives.

http://www.ipsnews.net/print.asp?idnews=34186

[sandnsea]

38. Using your own article for reference

"Masen Hashen, a 30-year-old construction worker from Qana who lost several family members in the air strike on the shelter, said there were no Hezbollah rockets fired from his village. "Because if they had done that now, or in the past, all of us would have left. Because we know we would be bombed."

Qana had been a shelter because no rockets were being fired from there, survivors said. "When Hezbollah fires their rockets, everyone runs away because they know an Israeli bombardment will come soon," Abdel said. "That is why everyone stayed in the shelter and nearby homes, because we all thought we'd be all right since there were no Hezbollah fighters in Qana."

Lebanese Red Cross workers in the nearby coastal city of Tyre told IPS that there was no basis for Israeli claims that Hezbollah had launched rockets from Qana.

"We found no evidence of Hezbollah fighters in Qana," Kassem Shaulan, a 28-year-old medic and training manager for the Red Cross in Tyre told IPS at their headquarters. "When we rescue people or recover bodies from villages, we usually see rocket launchers or Hezbollah fighters if they are there, but in Qana I can say that the village was 100 percent clear of either of those."

Another Red Cross worker, 32-year-old Mohammad Zatar, told IPS that "we can tell when Hezbollah has been firing rockets from certain areas, because all of the people run away, on foot if they have to."

So while Qana is in question, it's quite obvious that Hezbollah fires rockets from civilian areas which is what the original post referred to. Your own article verifies that fact.

[in_cog_ni_to]

41. No. It was a different building they showed on the video.

However, the building they showed on the video was in a HIGHLY populated area. It's Hezbollah's modus operandi..... Human shields to be used later when they're DEAD for their staged propaganda shows for the invited press. They line up ambulances, invite the press over, let the press talk to ambulance drivers, display the bodies for the press to take pictures then instruct the ambulances to all turn on thier sirens and drive away together. It's quite a production. Hezbollah has their own press agent who orchestrates all this for them. It's PSYCHOTIC.

[mom cat]

Maybe because they live there. Its their home.

[elocs]

12. I am sure it would be much easier and convenient for the IDF

if Hezbollah would only fire their rockets completely outside of civilian areas and to also have their bases in isolated areas. Then the IDF could simply target the Hezbollah and wipe them out. I am also sure that Hezbollah would object to being wiped out and so they adapt their methods of fighting to maximize their chances of surviving to fight another day.

[malaise]

18. LOL

like Duh! :D

[adriennui]

22. and to optimize the death of civilians!

i don't think hezbollak cares how many civilians go down in flames. cowards usually place themselves in the midst of civilian populations.

[oberliner]

26. Or they could have disbanded as a militia

And turned their weapons into the Lebanese army.

If their priority is Lebanese civilians not getting killed, there are better ways to go about achieving that goal than doing what they are doing.

Of course, this does not excuse Israel's actions at all.

Just to suggest that Hezbollah seems not altogether concerned with the well-being of Lebanese children.

[elocs]

27. They probably are not "altogether" concerned with the well-being

of Lebanese children. We were not concerned at all with the well-being of Japanese children when we dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki and fire bombed Tokyo, all resulting in tens of thousands of civilian deaths--including woman and children. The ends justifies the means. Hezbollah has only learned from the masters. The only civilians the U.S. is truly concerned about are our own. Terrorism has caused thousands of deaths everywhere over the years, but when 9/11 happens in this country it is, "Stop the world, we must destroy terrorism!!!" I in no way support what either Hezbollah or Israel has done, but this country is not exactly in a position to point fingers. When it suits us we are against killing innocent civilians, but when push comes to shove we have no problems with killing or torturing civilians if it achieves our goals and saves American lives.

[EFerrari]

28. I would tinker and say, if it achieves the goals of the interests

who own the country. American lives don't seem to be worth very much nowadays. Ask New York City or the Gulf Coast or the kids who waited months for body armor in a combat zone.

[mmonk]

17. Are there military areas they can fire from?

[slackmaster]

36. That was my first thought

Since the rockets are not being fired by the official Lebanese military forces, it seems unlikely that the Hezzies are using Lebanese military bases. If they were using military bases, we'd know it.

Any parcel of land that is not a military base is by definition a civilian area, is it not?

[question everything]

19. I was reminded of the people of New Orleans last year

The survivors of Qana said that they did not leave - even though Israel dropped leaflets telling them to do so - because they either could not or would not; sick and poor they thought that they would not be hit.

Isn't this what we heard from the poor residents of New Orleans during Katrina?

No, I do not blame the victims - of either event - but the leaders who did not actively evacuate them.

People in northern Israel - who do not get any warning about incoming missiles - left their homes and moved south. The Lebanese should have done the same.

[adriennui]

24. wasn't it the responsibility of the lebanese government

to move these people out of harms way. in this case the government was as inept as ours.

[question everything]

25. Precisely. That was my point.

But the Lebanese government has proved its ineptitude by letting a terrorist group taking control of its border and running its own show - they were the arm of Syria until last year when Syria finally left.

[Jazzgirl]

29. Dahr Jamail wrote an article about the Qana attack.

Posted on Information Clearinghouse. He said even the UN peacekeepers and Red Cross said there was NO Hezbollah in the area, firing or otherwise. Many of the people he talked to said whenever Hezbollah was around, they quickly left because they knew the IDF would start shooting and bombing. It was quiet in Qana so they gathered at the shelter there. Read the article here.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14320.htm

[oberliner]

39. This article does not claim any such statement by UN peacekeepers.

There were no UN peacekeepers in the area.

[EFerrari]

42. You're right. It doesn't. And it says that plans to put some there

have been suspended.

Oh dear.

[theboss]

32. I'm guessing because it's the truth

Call me kooky.

[noonwitch]

37. Because Hezbollah are terrorists and that's what terrorists do

Even if they aren't firing from "civilian" areas, they are firing into civilian areas in Israel. Fuck Hezbollah. I feel badly for the civilian population in Lebanon, after all the wars over the past 30 years or so. When Hezbollah stops firing, Israel will stop, and the civilians will be safer again.

[Mandate My Ass]

40. Probably for the same reason they said Iraq had WMD

:shrug: