Is there any such thing as "war crimes" anymore?

[kentuck]

I'm thinking of everything that Bush and Cheney have done since the illegal invasion of Iraq. Torture, murder, secret prisons, lies, international crimes, etc...Now we find that the Israelis are bombing civilians, mostly children, they say unintentionally? I suppose the raid on the hospital was "unintentional" also? What constitutes a "war crime" anymore? Is there any such thing?

[bloom]

1. Seems that I heard that Israel allows torture as well.

When the most powerful nation on earth ignores war crimes and ignores and subverts the UN - it's not good for anybody.

It's not good for us.

[Redstone]

2. Well, I was wrong, I thought it would be about five replies before

someone said that about Isreal.

Got any documentation?

Redstone

[cool user name]

5. Yes, Israel has legalized torture.

[bloom]

7. From the BBC - Israel admits torture

Wednesday, 9 February, 2000, 22:46 GMT
Israel admits torture

An official Israeli report has acknowledged for the first time that the Israeli security service tortured detainees during the Palestinian uprising, the Intifada, between 1988 and 1992.


The report, written five years ago but kept secret until now, said the leadership of the security service Shin Bet knew about the torture but did nothing to stop it.

The report did not detail the torture methods used, but human rights organisations say some detainees died or were left paralysed.


Most of the violations were not caused by lack of knowledge of the line between what was permitted and what was forbidden, but were committed knowingly
Israeli torture report
Security agents were also accused of lying to the courts about their actions.

The release of the report in Israel was authorised by a parliamentary committee after the Supreme Court recommended it no longer be kept secret.

The Israeli Government has, in the past, denied that it used any interrogation methods that amounted to torture....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/637293.stm

[bloom]

12. Also - whether anyone accepts this as a source or not

this sort of thing is probably what the Arabs of the region understand the story to be:

...According to a political appointee within the Bush administration and U.S. intelligence sources, the interrogators at Abu Ghraib included a number of Arabic-speaking Israelis who also helped U.S. interrogators develop the "R2I" (Resistance to Interrogation) techniques. Many of the torture methods were developed by the Israelis over many years of interrogating Arab prisoners on the occupied West Bank and in Israel itself.

Clues about worse photos and videos of abuse may be found in Israeli files about similar abuse of Palestinian and other Arab prisoners. In March 2000, a lawyer for a Lebanese prisoner kidnapped in 1994 by the Israelis in Lebanon claimed that his client had been subjected to torture, including rape. The type of compensation offered by Rumsfeld in his testimony has its roots in cases of Israeli torture of Arabs. In the case of the Lebanese man, said to have been raped by his Israeli captors, his lawyer demanded compensation of $1.47 million. The Public Committee Against Torture in Israel documented the types of torture meted out on Arab prisoners. Many of the tactics coincide with those contained in the Taguba report: beatings and prolonged periods handcuffed to furniture. In an article in the December 1998 issue of The Progressive, Rabbi Lynn Gottlieb reported on the treatment given to a 23-year old Palestinian held on "administrative detention." The prisoner was "cuffed behind a chair 17 hours a day for 120 days . . . had his head covered with a sack, which was often dipped in urine or feces. Guards played loud music right next to his ears and frequently taunted him with threats of physical and sexual violence." If additional photos and videos document such practices, the Bush administration and the American people have, indeed, "seen nothing yet."

http://www.counterpunch.org/madsen05102004.html

[bloom]

13. From: Amnesty International

Israel:

Torture still used systematically as Israel presents its report to the Committee Against Torture

In a letter sent this week to the Committee Against Torture (CAT), Amnesty International has described how Israel continues to use interrogation methods in defiance of international human rights law and the Committee's own recommendations.

Such methods include forcing detainees to remain in painful positions (shabeh), sleep deprivation, hooding, playing raucous music, threats including death threats and violent shaking which can cause death.

In May 1997, after examining a special report by Israel, the Committee found that these interrogation practices, used by Israel's General Security Service (GSS), constituted torture and that their use violates Article 1 of the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (the Convention).

Today, representatives of the Israeli Government present a report to the Committee. During an open session, the Committee will question the representatives about the report and ask supplementary clarifications.

"In May 1997, the Committee against Torture made four substantive recommendations to Israel after considering Israel's report. None of these recommendations has been implemented by the Israeli Government," Amnesty International said.

The Committee recommended that Israel should stop using interrogation methods that violate the Convention. Amnesty International has, however, continued to receive reliable reports that detainees have been tortured during interrogation....

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGMDE150311998?open&of=ENG-ISR

[thepurpose]

3. Yes they are war crimes. See Bush, Cheney or Gonzales for what they are

because they change based on whether our own troops have committed them.

[KoKo]

4. No...don't think so...Apparently UN Security Council follows Bolton...so

since we are the "biggest funder" of UN it means that whatever comes up there...we shoot it down.

According to article I read, today...UN is sort of a "Bogus Group."

:shrug: Although I still remember all the PLEAS to UN Ambassadors that we DU'er's sent to them trying to STOP "Iraq Invasion"...now that I'm older and wiser and not indoctrinated in a "school classroom, anymore as to how the UN is the WORLD PEACEMAKING BODY ...I can kind of "slack off" and figure one looks at them as a US ENFORCER and that as much "noise" as they make with Bolton and US running and funding...there's no hope for the DREAM OF UN...that us "starry eyed little kids accepted during the 'Cold War" where we were doing "Duck and Cover." :-(

[sweetheart]

6. When the foxes guard the henhouse

Don't expect guilt.

[unblock]

8. losing.

that's the neocon/fascist definition of a war crime, anyway.

[sweetheart]

11. its the only sin in bushido

the code of the samurai warrior has 1 sin, failure. It is not the same as 'losing',
but in war, close enough.

[eFriendly]

9. "All's fair in love and war."

When a proverb becomes foreign policy, do you even have to ask? :shrug:

[yurbud]

10. winners decide who the war criminals are.

that has been the case for most of human history except for a brief moment when major nations at least attempted to honor the Geneva and Hague Conventions.

[bloom]

14. It's not that there is not such as thing as war crimes.

It's the the criminals can convince enough of their population that they didn't commit them/have them committed.

And ignore everybody else.

[valerief]

15. Yeah, they call it a soul. n/t

[DistressedAmerican]

16. War crimes are prosecuted by the winners. The Conquerers.

Until Iraq beats us here at home (that was their plan for all that WMD right???), there will be no war crimes trials.