Israel doesn't care about the innocents. Aid convoys are being blocked.

[bigtree]

UN aid convoys failing to get clearance

GENEVA (AP)
Six UN and Red Cross convoys were halted before reaching southern Lebanon yesterday after failing to receive security clearance from Israeli military forces and Hizbollah, but another convoy reached the besieged town of Qana, officials said.

Two aid shipments – for the coastal Lebanese city of Naqoura and for the hillside town of Rmaich, about 135 km south of Beirut – were unable to reach their destinations yesterday, said Christiane Berthiaume, a spokeswoman for the World Food Programme.

Four Red Cross convoys also have been stopped, a spokeswoman for the International Committee of the Red Cross said. Two ICRC convoys turned back on Monday before reaching Marwahin and Aytaroun, along the Lebanese-Israeli border, because of fighting in the area, the Red Cross said.

“We did not get the necessary concurrence, so we’re not going,” Berthiaume said.

At least a dozen trucks loaded with goods from the WFP and other UN agencies were stuck in Beirut, she said. She would not specify whether Israel or Hizbollah, or both, was responsible for the delay.
Naqoura, close to the Israeli border, is the home of the UN peacekeeping force in Lebanon, while Rmaich was the scene of an Israeli shell strike on an evacuation convoy last Friday in which a driver and a journalist were wounded.

more: http://www.bahraintribune.com/ArticleDetail.asp?ArticleId=116669&CategoryId=2

[soothsayer]

1. Not clear from article who is blocking them. Could be either side?

[leftchick]

3. who the fuck else but Israel could clear them?

they are the ones bombing the crap out of Lebanon! :eyes:

[Warren DeMontague]

30. Well, you could try reading the article.

The UN and other international agencies require that Hizbollah and the Israeli army are notified of – and acknowledge – the route and time frame for each convoy.
“We did not get the necessary concurrence, so we’re not going,” Berthiaume said.

At least a dozen trucks loaded with goods from the WFP and other UN agencies were stuck in Beirut, she said. She would not specify whether Israel or Hizbollah, or both, was responsible for the delay.


Gee, whiz. That sounds to me like it could be either, or both.

[bigtree]

38. No one really believes Hizbollah is holding up aid to these people

They have been attempting to get aid to these folks throughout Israel's assaults. The news reports have shown Lebanese in Hizbollah shelters receiving aid. The premise that Hizbollah is the reason these convoys are blocked is ridiculous. Read the bulk of the reports. Although Hizbollah is cited in this one as a factor, only Israel is singled out by these aid groups as the obstacle. Israel specifically refused clearance for some.

It's Israel's bombs that these groups fear. Their ambulances and supply trucks have been attacked by Israel. A UN command post was flattened by Israel. Nothing of the sort from Hizbollah in this conflict.

[Warren DeMontague]

44. Hmmm. Got any links to back that up?

Any particular reason that these aid groups, or the Bahrain Tribune, would deliberately try to make it sound like Hezbollah was blocking aid in THIS report?

Any particular reason to be convinced that Hezbollah -clearly, a positive, humanitarian, civic minded organization if there ever was one :eyes:- has nothing but the interests of the Lebanese civilians at heart?

I'm not saying it's inconceivable that Israel blocked the convoys, or that BOTH parties blocked them.. but, then, I don't think that one side in this conflict is pure as the driven snow while one side is the "bad guy", either. I happen to think Hezbollah deliberately started a stupid conflict which Israel inexcusably escalated beyond the bounds of justification. At this point, neither side is right.

[bigtree]

46. I don't think they did

I think it is how I have taken pains to describe over and over on this thread. I think it's ridiculous to assert that Hizbollah was holding up the aid. Several reports showed Hizbollah as initially being the only conduit to aid that the bombed out civilians had available.

It's even more of a stretch when the obstacles that are cited by individuals responsible for the missions are Israel's continued airwar and their refusal to provide clearance.

If they could open the way for Rice, they should be able to stop their slaughter long enough for this aid to pass.

[leftchick]

50. I Did read it and

I saw on CNN International where the Red Cross and UN aid groups could not get in because "ISRAEL WOULD NOT CLEAR THEM"! Is that clear enough for you?

[Clarkie1]

61. Hezbollah needs to clear them...read the article. nt

[bigtree]

5. ridiculous. Israel is the threat to these convoys in Lebanon.

Why go to such lengths to absolve Israel from responsibilty for the horrors and injustice of their deadly assaults? With UN and aid agents being bombed along with whatever Israel is aiming at, they need Israel's word that they can pass unabated. As if that word was to be trusted . . .

[LostinVA]

13. So much spinning it's dizzying...

[Warren DeMontague]

31. How is it spinning? The article doesn't say who was responsible.

It specifically says it could be the Israelis, or Hezbollah, or both.

[bigtree]

40. but logic, accounts, and the facts on the ground belie that premise

show me where someone from one of these aid organizations has specifically cited Hizbollah as an obstacle to aid getting through? The report said they needed approvalfrom Hizbollah in some cases. It doesn't say it was denied.

The report DOES say that Israel held them up. Not to mention the demonstrated threat of being targeted and killed from Israel's missiles. No where is there a report of Hizbollah attacking any aid agent or mission representative. Not so with Israel. they are the obstacle and the threat.

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. Why are the Israelis

acting like such fucking assholes?

[leftchick]

4. because

Bolton, Condi, Cheney and the asshat** has all given their blessing to destroy Lebanon?

[BeHereNow]

6. To evoke a response to justify the neocon attack of Syria

and ultimately Iran.

Israel is nothing more than the deformed puppet of the Bush KKKabal.
The Israeli government does not care anymore about their civilians or soldiers
than the Bush KKKabal care about us or our military.
Cannon fodder, all of us.

BHN

[Karenina]

18. Not really.

If one looks at a map of the eastern end of Lebanon, it will show that at its closest point, the Litani River is about 4 km away. It's a strategic plan for the WATER RESOURCE to clear out the population to the south.

[aquart]

7. Hizbollah didn't give them clearance either.

But all of you ONLY blame Israel. No bias here.

[bigtree]

8. but you have no evidence that that is the concern of these agencies

I cite a source which blames Israeli authorities for withholding clearance. You reveal your own bias in trying to blame Hizbollah for Israel's strikes, which are what these agencies are afraid of. There are no attacks of UN or aid agencies reported to have come from Hizbollah, only from Israel.

[melnjones]

9. And how many ambulances has Hizbollah targeted in the last couple weeks?nt

[bigtree]

11. Aid convoys 'still in danger' in Lebanon

Aid convoys 'still in danger' in Lebanon

August 2, 2006 - 9:04AM

Aid groups struggling to get food and medicine to Lebanese villages ravaged by Israeli airstrikes have described harrowing journeys south, caught off-guard by increased air raids during a supposed 48-hour lull.

The violence slowed relief efforts by the United Nations, which had hastily planned additional convoys to take advantage of Israel's pledge to pause its aerial bombardment.

"There were people that while they were fleeing, were killed, caught in the aerial bombardment," said Mona Hammam, the top UN humanitarian coordinator in Lebanon. It was unclear how long the bodies had been there.

Hammam said it was possible that some civilians had heard about the 48-hour pause and thought it was safe to emerge from bomb shelters, only to be hit by additional air raids.

more: http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Aid-convoys-still-in-danger-in-Lebanon/2006/08/02/1154198172133.html

[LostinVA]

14. *yawn* Come up with a new meme, 'kay?

It's getting kinda boring hearing the same ones over and over....

[leftchick]

16. Is Hezbollah Targetting Aid Workers in Lebanon?

did I miss that?

[malaise]

10. That's not all

The IDF refused to allow to plane loads of humanitarian aid from Belgium to land at Beirut airport today. I imagine that went down really well at the EU Foreign Ministers meeting today.
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/latest/200608020919/1986a96a

<snip>
Belgium's defence ministry said two Belgian military planes carrying aid were not allowed to land in Beirut after Israel said it could not guarantee their safety.

[LostinVA]

12. But... but... Israel has a right to defend herself from aid convoys!

ANTI-SEMITE!!!

gigglegigglegiggle

[jonnyblitz]

15. I was called an anti-semite today for pointing out a UN resolution

that states zionism is racism. these pro israel loons are losin it I tells ya.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_General_Assembly_Resolution_3379

[LostinVA]

19. I having been called an anti-semite or told to burn with Hitler in Hell

ONCE today... maybe the warmongers no longer love me...

(my personal favorite was being told I was a member of the Talian -- I'm female, gay, a Pagan, and a Social Democrat -- wtf???)

[rockymountaindem]

37. That resolution was voted for mostly by Arabs

and the Communist bloc. Hardly neutral parties in the Israeli-Arab conflict. I wouldn't give that resolution a lot of creedence myself. Besides, it was repealed, so it isn't relevant to modern debate.

[jonnyblitz]

66. yeah, it was repealed but one must ask why it was brought up to

begin with. This resolution didn't come out of a void. I can't see why I would be anti-semitic for bringing it up. thank god nobody pays attention to that charge here anymore thanks to all the people who cried wolf over nothing so many times. I also like how you decide what is relevant. I think ,with you guys, the less context and history out there the better you like it. It's hard for you apologists to keep shit covered up. people aren't beliving the official line of Israel always being in a defensive mode anymore.

anyways thanks for the official version in regards to the story behind that resolution. when i get a chance I will do some research and find out the true background info.

[rockymountaindem]

70. Whatever

Do you think that the Arab World, plus the USSR and its satelites, were/are honest brokers of whether or not Zionism is racism? Seriously... Furthermore I only said the resolution is not relevant to todays debate because it was finally repeales, so obviously most UN members don't feel that way anymore. No need to be so acidic.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bigtree]

20. you'll get no response from me

when you direct your argument to the 'anti-Israel crowd'

[SPKrazy]

21. So You Replied To Tell Me "You'll Get No Response From Me"

LOL

[bigtree]

22. you know very well what I mean.

deal with it.

[SPKrazy]

25. I Am Instead Laughing

my ass off

:rofl:

[bigtree]

32. why are you baiting me?

I've NEVER done this.

[Don Claybrook]

51. what an impressive display

Keep on pickin' it with the left one....after you're able to get up from your giggling fit, I mean.

[Binka]

53. Read The Profile n/t

[SPKrazy]

57. You Have A Problem With Me?

well do you?

stop the passive aggressive BS

"read the profile"

if you got something to say to me, say it

[Ms. Clio]

65. unbelievable

:puke:

[SPKrazy]

56. Wow, I'm So Impressed

with you too


NOT

[leftchick]

23. "anti-Israel Government"

much like ant-US government policies. There is a huge difference.

[SPKrazy]

26. Hard To Tell That From Reading Here Lately Leftchick

I see less criticism of the government

and more implication that Israel is just plain evil

[leftchick]

28. I sure as hell give the benefit of the doubt to Liberals

I assume when I see Israel it means the Government. I certainly differentiate between them. Just like I hope foreigners do not lump me in with bushco** policies. :(

[SPKrazy]

29. I'd Give Benefit Of Doubt To Liberals

some things I've read here lately don't sound like liberals, but more like the rantings of some of the white supremacists that live not far from where I live

[bigtree]

34. you've got a lot of nerve with your character attacks

accusing anyone here of white supremacist rantings.

NOT THIS POSTER, NOT THIS THREAD.

Why don't you start your own thread and berate to your heart's desire? Why are you on this thread spreading your ridicule and hate?

stick to the point of the OP or bug off.

[SPKrazy]

54. Did I Call You Or Any Poster Here A White Supremacist?

no I didn't

so bug off yourself

[Ms. Clio]

67. no, that's what your posts have sounded like from day one

all that hatin on Mexicans.

[bigtree]

35. the right wing uses the argument that opposition to Bush's policies

is opposition to America. It's the same logic that has folks calling critics of Israel's actions anti-Israel.

I think it's a means to exploit the correct horror most folks feel about the persecution of Israel and its Jewish citizens over the course of history. It's a despicable defense to smear good folks with that racism.

[tnlefty]

24. I saw some men loading large boxes clearly marked UNICEF on them

in a BBC news report earlier today. Taped closed and lined up next to each other and on top of each other to the top of the rails on the back of the truck. If this is really a concern couldn't the trucks be searched at some point?

[SPKrazy]

27. I Don't Know That They Aren't Searched

but I would be suspicious if I were Israel

Syria and Iran have been supplying Hizbollah (using them as their proxy for a fight with Israel) since their inception

[tnlefty]

33. So again, why not search the trucks and shipments instead of blocking

them? I don't think that UNICEF would be smuggling weapons and there was no room between the large boxes nor to the top of the railings on the truck.

So why not search them instead of blocking them.

[SPKrazy]

55. I Said, I Don't Know Whether They Searched Them Or Not

and you don't either

[tnlefty]

58. No, my question was why not search them instead of blocking them.

The aid is desperately needed so if there is suspicion why not search instead of block?

[SPKrazy]

59. Do You Know That They Are Blocking Them?

or is this internets rumor?

[bigtree]

64. Israel denied access to two of the three UN convoys

Israel denied access to two of the three UN convoys that planned to go south on Tuesday.

Two UN convoys denied access to the south on Tuesday would try again on Wednesday to head to Naqoura and Rmeish, where the UN received reports of some 30,000 civilians holed up without food or water last week, Hammam said.

No aid groups have been able to reach Rmeish so far, she said.

"We don't know what to anticipate when we get there," she said.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Aid-convoys-still-in-danger-in-Lebanon/2006/08/02/1154198172133.html

[bigtree]

68. Security clearances and devastation hinder urgent UN aid to Middle East

Security clearances and devastation hinder urgent UN aid to Middle East conflict areas

1 August 2006 –

The World Food Programme (WFP), which is coordinating UN and other humanitarian aid in Lebanon, said today that it had suffered another setback in its huge efforts to bring much-needed aid to the beleaguered inhabitants of southern Lebanon.

Out of three convoys planned for the villages of Tebnin, Rmeish and Naqoura, WFP only received concurrence from the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) to proceed to Tebnin, so only six trucks of food and other supplies are being sent instead of the 18 that had been planned.

“We are increasingly frustrated that our convoy movements are being hampered, leaving people in the south stranded for what is now nearly three weeks. We have no time to waste – they are running out of food, water and medicine. Many are poor, sick, or elderly and could not be evacuated earlier,” warned Amer Daoudi, WFP Emergency Coordinator.

WFP also had to cancel a planned convoy to the southern Lebanese town of Marjayoun on Sunday, after the IDF refused to give their agreement to this shipment.

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=19374&Cr=middle&Cr1=east

[bigtree]

69. Cancelled convoys hamper aid for stranded in southern Lebanon

Cancelled convoys hamper aid for stranded in southern Lebanon

Report, World Food Programme, 1 August 2006

Beirut - WFP has warned that it has suffered another setback in its huge efforts to bring much-needed aid to the beleaguered inhabitants of southern Lebanon.

Out of three convoys planned for today to the southern villages of Tebnin, Rmeish and Naqoura, WFP only received concurrence from the Israeli Defence Forces to proceed to Tebnin.

Out of the 18 trucks of food and other supplies organised for delivery, only six, carrying food and UNICEF items, will reach the people of Tebnin.

The first time WFP did not get concurrence for a convoy was on Sunday, 30 July, to the Lebanese town of Marjayoun.

"We are increasingly frustrated that our convoy movements are being hampered, leaving people in the south stranded for what is now nearly three weeks. We have no time to waste - they are running out of food, water and medicine. Many are poor, sick, or elderly and could not be evacuated earlier," warned Amer Daoudi, WFP Emergency Coordinator.

Destroyed roads and bridges are also forcing the convoys onto secondary roads, where progress is painfully slow.

http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article5372.shtml

[bigtree]

71. Humanitarian groups say aid convoys, civilians still in danger

Humanitarian groups say aid convoys, civilians still in danger

LAUREN FRAYER, Associated Press Writer

August 1, 2006 7:09 PM

BEIRUT, Lebanon (AP) - Aid groups attempting to get food and medicine to Lebanese villages ravaged by Israeli airstrikes described harrowing journeys south on Tuesday, caught off-guard by increased air raids during a supposed 48-hour lull.

The violence slowed relief efforts by the United Nations, which had hastily planned additional convoys to take advantage of Israel's pledge to pause its aerial bombardment.

Israel denied access for two of the three U.N. convoys that planned to go south Tuesday.

http://www.newspress.com/Top/Article/article.jsp?Section=WORLD&ID=564780679205093547

[bigtree]

36. UNICEF calls for truce in Lebanon-Israel conflict

UNICEF calls for truce in Lebanon-Israel conflict
Lebanon-Israel, Politics, 8/1/2006

United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) will not stand silent in the face of war crimes against children, UNICEF senior official Alireza Fayyazi yesterday said in reference to Israeli war crimes against humanity in Lebanese southern village of Qana and indiscriminate bombing of Palestinians.

He described Israeli actions against Lebanese civilians as "blatant violation of human rights."

"Many Lebanese people have been displaced. The UNICEF is demanding help for the Lebanese refugees," he stressed, adding that the international organization is also calling for truce in Lebanon to prepare the grounds for humanitarian aid to the Lebanese people.

Fayyazi noted that the closure of roads and siege of nearby areas is UNICEF's biggest problem to send aid to Lebanon.

http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/060801/2006080108.html

The UN agency for the aid support of children. Smuggling bombs? More desperate evasions from supporters of Israel's assaults.

[tnlefty]

47. Thanks for the link, bigtree.

I'd hate to think that the years that my kids have collected money for UNICEF were wasted. Just search the friggin' trucks then let them through!

[InaneAnanity]

39. Who can blame them??

They're just clearing the way for some more Israeli settlements to be built.

[pinto]

41. Just to be fair, the UN rep did offer this qualifying statement:

...At least a dozen trucks loaded with goods from the WFP and other UN agencies were stuck in Beirut, she said. She would not specify whether Israel or Hizbollah, or both, was responsible for the delay...

http://www.bahraintribune.com/ArticleDetail.asp?ArticleId=116669&CategoryId=2

:shrug: It's a mess.

[bigtree]

43. but, it stretches belief that Hizbollah would be blocking the shipments

numerous aid reps have cited Israel as 'blocking' clearance for their convoys. It's Israel who has targeted and hit supply trucks and ambulances, bombed out roads, bridges, airports. Hizbollah was seen in some early news reports as providing shelter and food for the Lebanese citizens who were unable to flee because of the continued airstrikes. Israel is the threat to these agencies and missions in Lebanon, not Hizbollah. If you have some evidence that they are outside of the permission that was cited as being necessary from Hizbollah I'd like to see it. As far as I see Hizbollah hasn't been cited for blocking any aid or mission into Lebanon.

[pinto]

48. I'm just noting the comment from the UN rep. Nothing more, nothing less.

I'm not making any claims, at all. Thanks.

[maalak]

42. discounting your misleading title for this article...

perhaps the reason they're being blocked is because they'd be going through extremely unsafe areas and they won't be cleared until it's safer?

if there is heavy fighting going on, or attacks planned within a timeframe then it would be logical (albeit tragic that aid is being delayed) for them to be temporarily halted, regardless of whether it's Israel or Hezbollah doing the block... and as pointed out it's NOT specified who it is.

or would you rather those aid convoys became added to the growing number of accidental losses in this horrible conflict?

[bigtree]

45. Hizbollah isn't striking Lebanon with missiles, Israel is.

As I have a perfect right to my opinion, I still assert Israel doesn't care, or they would do something concrete to show that these civilian's lives are more important than whatever target they intend to hit with their missiles which are preventing aid convoys from getting to the needy.

I don't see why Israel has to bomb in the vicinity of the folks who need this aid. They provided safe passage for Rice, they should do the same for those who seek to provide aid to the innocent civilians.

[maalak]

49. Hezbollah has been launching rockets at Israel from Lebanon...

...but of course know that...

you can assert Israel doesn't care all you want... that won't make it true. i simply offered one possible scenario of why either Hezbollah or Israel might temporarily block a convoy's passage.

regardless, your original title is misleading and not supported by what you posted.

[bigtree]

52. It's hyperbole, granted, but, where is Israel demonstrating their concern

for the innocent Lebanese civilians they have killed?

Not just the apologies. Those are made hollow by their continuing attacks on populated areas.

Where are they demonstrating that care for the innocent Lebanese? I don't think the leaflets they drop show much care since they must realize the elderly, the infirm, and the disabled are unable to flee their airstrikes.

Israel must have made the calculation that the supposed target of their reprisals is more important than those lives which are caught up in their violence in Lebanon. There must have been a calculation that the Lebanese lives are less important than the Israeli lives at risk from Hizbollah's rockets.

The Israelis seem to be refusing to distinguish between innocent civilians and the Hizbollah they assume they are targeting from thousands of feet up in the air.

That's the opposite of concern. Where are they demonstrating care?

[Clarkie1]

60. The title of your post doesn't jive with the article you posted.

"Six UN and Red Cross convoys were halted before reaching southern Lebanon yesterday after failing to receive security clearance from Israeli military forces and Hizbollah"

"She would not specify whether Israel or Hizbollah, or both, was responsible for the delay."


They need clearance from both Hezbollah and Israel. It is not clear who is holding up the convoys.

[bigtree]

62. not an original thought , if you read through the thread

It's perfectly clear, to me, through the accounts of aid representatives (in this and other articles and reports) that it is Israel's airstrikes which are the threat, not Hizbollah. Several of these missions have been held up by Israel according to the accounts from the principles. The reference in the article about needing Hizbollah clearance doesn't indicate that Hizbollah held them up at any time. Yet, Israel is cited in several accounts as an obstacle as well as a threat to their lives.

[Clarkie1]

63. Links? nt

[bigtree]

72. upthread Clarkie1

upthread

[muriel_volestrangler]

73. In some cases, it's clearly Israel

From the OP article:

Lebanon’s fuel shortages, meanwhile, were a new threat to aid deliveries, relief agencies said, appealing to Israel to allow oil shipments to Lebanese ports.
...
Four Red Cross convoys also have been stopped, a spokeswoman for the International Committee of the Red Cross said. Two ICRC convoys turned back on Monday before reaching Marwahin and Aytaroun, along the Lebanese-Israeli border, because of fighting in the area, the Red Cross said.
“We did not receive the green light from the Israeli Defence Force,” Annick Bouvier said yesterday, and as a result, the ICRC will focus on helping refugees and residents in the southern port of Tyre, where two of the four convoys are located.

And from another AP article, also from yesterday:

The top U.N. humanitarian coordinator in Lebanon, Mona Hammam, said convoys so far had met “no problems” from Hezbollah.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/20060801-0419-mideastfighting-aid.html

When specified, it's always the Israelis who are holding up the convoys.

[bigtree]

74. thanks for the quote from Hammam

It s the only quote at all that I've seen from the mission reps concerning Hizbollah in relation to safe passage, pro or con.