Buzzflash-Hez is playing dirty-equipment&troops in civilian-heavy suburbs

[papau]

Sunday Herald Sun is a Melbourne, Victoria Australia paper and is Australia's biggest-selling daily newspaper

This was posted at http://www.buzzflash.com/

Photos that demonstrate Hezbollah is playing dirty in Lebanon, stationing its equipment and troops in civilian-heavy suburbs
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http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,19955774-5007220,00.html

Photos that damn Hezbollah

Dressed in civilian clothing so they can quickly disappear, the militants carrying automatic assault rifles and ride in on trucks mounted with cannon.

July 30, 2006 12:00am Article from: Sunday Herald

<snip>The photographs, from the Christian area of Wadi Chahrour in the east of Beirut, were taken by a visiting journalist and smuggled out by a friend....They emerged as..a A Palestinian militant group said it had kidnapped, killed and burned an Israeli settler in the West Bank.

The images include one of a group of men and youths preparing to fire an anti-aircraft gun metres from an apartment block with sheets hanging out on a balcony to dry. Others show a militant with AK47 rifle guarding no-go zones after Israeli blitzes. Another depicts the remnants of a Hezbollah Katyusha rocket in the middle of a residential block blown up in an Israeli air attack.

The Melbourne man who smuggled the shots out of Beirut and did not wish to be named said he was less than 400m from the block when it was obliterated. "Hezbollah came in to launch their rockets, then within minutes the area was blasted by Israeli jets," he said. "Until the Hezbollah fighters arrived, it had not been touched by the Israelis. Then it was totally devastated. "It was carnage. Two innocent people died in that incident, but it was so lucky it was not more."

The release of the images comes as Hezbollah faces criticism for allegedly using innocent civilians as "human shields".

Mr Egeland blasted Hezbollah as "cowards" for operating among civilians. "When I was in Lebanon, in the Hezbollah heartland, I said Hezbollah must stop this cowardly blending in among women and children," he said

Suburban warfare: Hezbollah fighters are ready for action in a residential area.
http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5200790,00.jpg

On guard: A militant watches over a no-go zone.
http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5200788,00.jpg

Anti-aircraft gun: these pictures were taken by a visiting journalist and smuggled out by a friend
http://www.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,,5200791,00.jpg

[papau]

1. Just saw that this is a dupe -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1792264&mesg_id=1792264

[chimpymustgo]

9. Please. Stop. Israel's carnage can't be justified. Quit trying!!! nt

nt

[progressivebydesign]

2. It's a dupe and it's a dishonest photo.. apparently.

Already been debunked as christian fighters in another area. And even if it was what you're claiming, it shows nothing.. just some guys near a building.

[papau]

10. Curious -others say it's debunked also - but there is no "debunking"

The asserted facts are a Hez controlled area in a "Christian area" where Hez is blending in - wearing jewelery, no uniforms, etc.

Also asserted is that Hez has put weapons next to civilian buildings - that Hezbollah is using high-density residential areas as launch pads for rockets and heavy-caliber weapons

Then images are presented of a group of men and youths preparing to fire an anti-aircraft gun meters from an apartment block with sheets hanging out on a balcony to dry - in a Christian area -with the assertion that nothing was happening in that area until Hez rolled the weapons in. And after they rolled the weapons in Israeli air power attacked (which does track with the reports of Israeli air power firing into Christian areas - although it appears Hez was not successful in getting their photo's of civilian dead in this particular exercise).

Another photo is presented is asserted to be a militant with an AK47 rifle guarding no-go zones after Israeli blitzes.

And the last photo is asserted yo be the remnants of a Hezbollah Katyusha rocket in the middle of a residential block blown up in an Israeli air attack - implying not that the Katyusha was stored there and was destroyed by an Israeli air attack.

What in the above has been debunked? Does anyone really believe the largest paper in the country would lie or not have sourced the material and verified the credibility of the source?

Since the UN said the same thing about moving into civilian buildings with heavy weapons thereby causing civilian deaths, are the UN and the newspaper both liars? I can't wait for more excuses for the white hat terrorists called Hez.

Perhaps we should all just agree on the need for a ceasefire, and that civilian harm and death is a lousy thing, and leave the building of a case for Hez Sainthood to another day and another board?


http://letters.salon.com/news/feature/2006/07/28/hezbollah/view/index2.html?show=all

A LETTER TO SALON:

So you claim that Hezbollah does not use civilians for cover.

To claim this, you must ignore Jan Egeland of the UN, who complained of this practice.

You must ignore IDF video clips showing exactly what you deny: rocket launchers firing from residential areas.

You must ignore a continuing stream of witness accounts confirming the same thing.

You must ignore the practice of Hezbollah's fighters not wearing uniforms in combat (even though they love to wear uniforms when they march in formation).

In other words, you are in denial about this patently obvious fact. Hezbollah uses civilians for cover. Your reporter, Mitch Prothero is either a liar or a fool. And you editors are willfully blind. You owe your readers an apology for carrying an article so patently false. How long will it take before you issue it?

A letter to Salon with a different point of view - by "Joanne"

"Actually that Herald Sun photo claimed to have a broken down truck IN A CHRISTIAN NEIGHBOURHOOD, in the east of Lebanon.

Some genius might like to inform us all why the shi'ite Hezbollah would be in a christian neighbourhood and then pin point any christian neighbourhood that has been bombed to bits. (she forgets the reports of the Israeli air attack on the Christian area - but forgeting is something I also do - so no foul :-) papau)

The Herald Sun is a rag. The article also claims that Katushya rockets had been fired from that christian area - if so were the christians firing them when we know for sure that none have been fired from Beirut at all.


Responded to on DU

1) Do you think Hezbollah thinks Israel will say "let's not bomb those defensive weapons?"
2) Does Hezbollah actually think they're going to shoot down a high-altitude F-16 with those things?
3) What good does parking them in a civilian area accomplish?

DUer Junkdrawer said

I think the Herald Sun got hold of a picture of A-rabs on a big gun.and the pro-Israeli and Right Wing websites are riding the shamefully mis-titled article until they can find something better or until it becomes a joke.- And Junkdrawer also claims the photo has been debunked.

And DUer leveymg - pretending, I guess, that Hez is fighting an occupying power and are therefore guerrilla fighters rather than terrorists launching missiles from Lebanon into Israeli cities and crossing the border to kill and kidnap Israeli citizens and sending terrorists into Israel to be "cells" to kill and kidnap using Hez money and weapons to do that job - says " It has become the line of the day to repeat the bit about "shameful hiding" amidst civilians. I don't see how a guerilla war can be fought otherwise. The critique presupposes an utter ignorance of military doctrine about how to fight an asymmetrical opponent."

But none of the above is a debunking, is it?

[Rex]

14. Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese government.

They are using all the lessons learned from the war with the Soviet Union and Vietnam. Blend in and look just like everyone else. Classic guerrilla tactics. No denying it.

[papau]

15. Hez is not part of the Lebanese government - it is a warlord militia

the Hez movement has 2 dozen seats in Parliament - these MP's are from areas that are both controlled - illegally - by Hez , and have citizens (those civilian casualties, including sadly the innocent children that are the victims of Israeli weapons, their parents bad decisions, and Hez's need for victim photos) that actively assist Hez.

In the process, Folks trapped by Hez are also put in danger.

Hez does not claim to be trying to overthrow the Lebanese Government. So "Classic guerrilla tactics. No denying it" is NUTS - WRONG BY DEFINITION OF THE WORD GUERRILLA - lEAVING ONE COUNTRY TO MURDER IN ANOTHER, SENDING MISSILES AT TOWNS AND KIDS IN ANOTHER COUNTRY, AND SENDING CELLS INTO ANOTHER COUNTRY TO DO THE SAME - MURDER AND KIDNAPPING - IS TERRORISM. AND IT IS TERRORISM TO ADVANCE THE CAUSE THAT HAS AS ITS OBJECTIVE THE MURDER OF ALL JEWS.

If the defense of Hez can't be logical - or even use correct English and English definitions - perhaps there is no defense?

But that logic can't be accepted by some on DU as they need to portray Israel as the devil and Arab terrorists as folks just using the weapons they have to right a wrong. I wonder how many votes these folks would get in A US Election - perhaps they should use 911 photos in their campaign literature for showing what they support, explaining that it is just "Classic guerrilla tactics. No denying it".

[MsUnderstood]

3. that doesn't justify killing civilians

I hope that if gangs invaded my neighborhood the police sent squad cars to patrol rather than swat teams to take out everyone then ask questions later. . .

[Ian David]

4. Remember: If there is ever an American Civil War...

to only put your artillery in Republican owned businesses.

Wal-Mart... you would sure make a great place for a missile battery!

[leftchick]

5. POST IT AGAIN!!!!!

this is only the fourth post and your second. It still does NOTHING to refute the horrible war crimes of Israel.

[girl gone mad]

6. That's it?

Pretty weak, imho.

[leftchick]

7. indeed

when compared to this. It looks like a bulls eye to me.....





A Lebanese Red Cross ambulance worker peers from the roof top of an ambulance that was bombed, at the Red Cross station in Tyre, south Lebanon, August 1, 2006. The ambulance was hit on July 26 during an Israeli air raid. (Ali Hashisho/Reuters)

[Lerkfish]

8. The intellectual dishonesty of this recurring photos is disgusting.

these are bogus photos, they do little to support your case.

are we being astroturfed with propaganda now?

[papau]

11. And the debunking is posted where? - see post 10 in this thread please

thanks

[Junkdrawer]

12. The answer is "Yes". BTW: The photos are from a Christian neighborhood...

of Beirut.

So you ask "How do photos of an anti-aircraft battery in a Christian neighborhood of Beirut prove that Hezbollah is using civilians to shield their rocket launches?"

Well, the answer is repetition. I did a Google, and the phrase "Photos that damn Hezbollah" has 129,000 hits! http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22Photos+that+damn+Hezbollah%22&btnG=Search

[papau]

17. The caption on the two photos in Christian areas says taken in Xtian areas

so this "debunked" how? A Hez controlled area - as in a place the Lebanese police/military refuses to toss Hez out and there is no local militia willing to war against Hez - which is just about the whole country - does not include suburbs of Beirut, the city where Hez has its main offices?

The news reported an air attack in Xtian areas - this fellow was there for the attack - the photo's explain why there was an attack.

There are now 151,000 hits on the photos- meaning 151000 pages on the web make reference to these photos -

- and making reference to these photos by folks proves they are "debunked"? how?

or is this a conspiracy - yeah - thats it - the UN says Hez is causing death by moving weapons next to a apartments so that Israel fire will produce those victims and victim photos - so the UN is part of the conspiracy I guess.

[Junkdrawer]

19. Your assertion is that Hez fighters are wearing jewelry to blend in...

to the locals while manning an anti-aircraft battery in a Hezbollah controlled area of a Christian neighborhood of Beirut and that this is proof that Hezbollah locates its OFFENSIVE capabilities in civilian areas.(pant) (pant)

Ahhh, yeah... :eyes:

[papau]

28. Locates its heavy weapons - just like the photo shows - hard to grasp?

It stores its weapons in the north.

it trucks them south to launch them.

it protects its storage sites with heavy weapons against air attack by placing those heavy weapons in the general area of the storage.

Per the UN it places those heavy weapons near civilian apartment buildings causing an Israeli response that Hez knows will kill civilians.

Why pretend Israel is only all evil with no right to exist - they are evil enough - one doesn't gain credibility by repeating Hez easily proven wrong assertions.

But in any case I've retired from this - except for factual corrections - corrections with URL to source of course just for Leftchick - who keeps us all honest by always requesting same! :-)

[Junkdrawer]

29. "hard to grasp" YOUR proof of the storage of rocket launchers...

I only see anti-aircraft guns.

As for the idea that Israel only goes after launch sites, I refer to Juan Cole's analysis:

...

One hope the Israeli hawks appear to entertain is that they can permanently depopulate strips Lebanon south of the Litani river. Since most Shiites vote Hizbullah and offer political support and cover to it, fewer people means fewer assets for the party-militia. This project would require the total destruction of large numbers of villages and the permanent displacement of their inhabitants north to Beirut.

That is why the massacre at Qana occurred. The Israelis had bombed Qana 80 times. They were destroying all of its buildings. Therefore, of course, they destroyed the building where dozens of children and families were hiding. This tactic is both collective punishment and ethnic cleansing all at once. It is not only a matter, as the Israelis claim, of hitting Hizbullah rocket launchers. They are destroying all of the buildings.

...

http://www.juancole.com /

BTW: Please show me where I said "Israel is only all evil with no right to exist".

[papau]

30. The World Maronite Union has issued statements saying Hez is

into war crimes - using civilians as human shields so as to get civilian deaths for PR purposes. Just like the UN said. Guess there are a lot of liars out there, eh?

Indeed why do folks on DU not post the reports of Hez crimes made by leaders of Christian Solidarity International and folks like Sami El-Khoury, president of the World Maronite Union? CSI reported today that "Hezbollah is using Christian villages to shield its military operations against Israel. Southern Lebanese Christian villages, such as Ain Ebel, Rmeish, Alma Alshaab, and others are being used by Hezbollah terrorists for launching missile attacks. A Christian from the village of Ain Ebel discovered Hezbollah guerrillas were setting up a launcher to fire Katyusha rockets from the rooftop of his home. Ignoring his pleas to stop, they fired the missiles. He immediately gathered his family and fled home, which indeed was bombed and destroyed 15 minutes later by an Israeli air strike. In addition to having their homes commandeered for launching Hezbollah's attacks, there have been attempts to obstruct Christians from fleeing their villages. On Saturday, July 28, Hezbollah fighters fired upon several Christians fleeing Rmeish with their families, wounding two, according to Christian sources in south Lebanon. Hezbollah has been the ruling power in the south since Israel withdrew from Lebanon six years ago. Christian villages suffer from extensive neglect of infrastructure under Hezbollah rule. Even though Christians pay the taxes for basic government services, such as road repair and other utilities, these services are rarely provided. On the other hand, Shiite villages supportive of Hezbollah do not pay taxes and benefit from infrastructure development and new residential and business construction."

Why do you fight the truth?

[Junkdrawer]

31. "They are destroying all of the buildings."....n/t

[lumpy]

34. Can you give an IA for the Maronite Union

that has this info. Went to the site, nothing there. Who are these people?

[papau]

37. Christian "right" as are most Marionite Orthodox , n/t

n/t

[malaise]

38. OK then

bomb the fuck out of Lebanon. It will make us love you.:sarcasm:

[RagAss]

13. and this does what ?..make it ok to bomb kids??

[JCMach1]

16. What part of civilian militia don't these people understand?

Also, Lebanon is a tiny place... you are never very far from a populated area...

[SidDithers]

18. If Israeli air attacks are striking civilian areas...

where else would you expect anti-aircraft weapons to be?

Sid

[Zynx]

21. Unless you are implying Israel is trying to kill civilians, which is just

stupid, that statement made no sense. If they were trying to kill civilians they could blow up every apartment in Beirut in a day and kill tens of thousands. They are trying to avoid it, but accidents happen.

[Junkdrawer]

22. Israel doesn't want Beruit. n/t

[Zynx]

26. If they were trying to kill civilians as some suggest, there are plenty

there. After all, the murderous Israelis need to feast on the blood of the living to fuel their oppression of the Arab world! /sarcasm

[SidDithers]

24. Whatever their intentions...

civilian areas are being hit, so a picture of a defensive weapon in a civilian areas is not exactly an earth-shattering revelation.

Sid

[lumpy]

33. I don't think the IDF is trying to kill civilians.

They just don't give a damn if they do in their obvious plan to disable Lebanon in their thirst for revenge and probably take over of a strip of this and that of Lebanones land. Israel's cruel subjugation of the Palestinian people has not been forgotten by many many people. Some of us will not forget the IDF shooting bullets at Palestinian youths throwing stones and the arrogance of the Jewish settlers in Palestinian land supported by Israel's government and more....

[WinkyDink]

20. And I linked to it days ago!

And got the response:
"Where? I don't see it."
To which I replied, "Perhaps it's the apartment buildings." (Implied "DUH.")(Top photo)

But whatever. Israel lies; Hezbollah is the paragon of virtue.

[lumpy]

35. I haven't seen anyone claim Hezbollah

is a paragon of virtue and I feel for the Israeli people who have had to live with their overly ambitious leaders for all these years. The apartment building doesn't prove a damn thing. Duh.

[Bretttido]

23. Where would you expect them to place artillery?

In the middle of an open field so they can be slaughtered by a superior military force? They are not stupid. Neither were the afghan vs USSR. And neither were the Vietnamese vs US.

[Junkdrawer]

25. Not artillery (offensive weapons). Anti-aircraft guns (defensive weapons),

And you put them next to what you want to defend.

[Bretttido]

27. My mistake, anti-aircraft. And I agree with you.

[lumpy]

32. Yes, where are those pics of rocket launchers

located in neighborhoods that we hear so much about? Anti-aircraft guns are not quite the same as rockets. Where in hell would you put anti-aircraft guns except in the areas that are being bombed by aircraft? Those photos don't prove a damn thing. So what if those people don't wear uniforms. Why be a target for soldiers that have all the latest equipment for their own protection and air power to cover them. The buildings behind the people in the pictures might well be empty for all we know. Hell, the pictures might be staged just like some people claim those pictures of dead mutilated Lebanon children were staged. The photographer won't identify himself to show some authenticity to the pictures. In this day of lies, deliberate misinformation, how can anyone trust anyone to give us the truth. Israel has superior military power, Lebanon does not. Israel hasn't conducted a fair and honest attempt to get their enemies; they have played dirty by killing innocents knowing full well what they were doing. If the Lebanonese people respond in kind then so be it. I know, all is fair in love and war. That will never change.

[w4rma]

36. Another photo of the same *anti-aircraft* gun? A *defensive* weapon. (nt)