I need some help, DUers

[xkenx]

I have a couple of relatives, nominally Democrats, who think now that W is just wonderful for his support of Israel. When my wife pointed out to them that it is faux support, predicated on the RW Fundies' Armageddon/Endtimes scenario, in which Israel needs to be preserved so that Jesus can return and reclaim Israel for Christians, at which time the Jews will either convert or die, they went ballistic on her. Can anyone point me to some good original writings by Fundie leaders, quoting the passages in the bible for these beliefs? I need to combat this false support.

[pitohui]

1. the late great planet earth by hal lindsey

the original is still the best, altho i think a lot of young people would be surprised at the recency of these beliefs

there was no real armageddon/endtimes scenario in christianity prior to mr. lindsay's efforts save among the most extreme whackiest of the whacky like jehovah's witness

so in living memory they dreamed up all this crock

but, you know, people who think w is just "wonderful" are prob. not going to read

i too support israel, that doesn't mean i have entirely lost my mind and think w is anything but the drunken chimp he is

[pk_du]

2. Heres a starter... with links to many references

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_times

[Synnical]

3. Village Voice - The Jesus Landing Pad

Bush White House checked with rapture Christians before latest Israel move
by Rick Perlstein

May 18th, 2004 10:00 AM

It was an e-mail we weren't meant to see. Not for our eyes were the notes that showed White House staffers taking two-hour meetings with Christian fundamentalists, where they passed off bogus social science on gay marriage as if it were holy writ and issued fiery warnings that "the Presidents Administration and current Government is engaged in cultural, economical, and social struggle on every level"—this to a group whose representative in Israel believed herself to have been attacked by witchcraft unleashed by proximity to a volume of Harry Potter. Most of all, apparently, we're not supposed to know the National Security Council's top Middle East aide consults with apocalyptic Christians eager to ensure American policy on Israel conforms with their sectarian doomsday scenarios.

But now we know.

"Everything that you're discussing is information you're not supposed to have," barked Pentecostal minister Robert G. Upton when asked about the off-the-record briefing his delegation received on March 25. Details of that meeting appear in a confidential memo signed by Upton and obtained by the Voice.

The e-mailed meeting summary reveals NSC Near East and North African Affairs director Elliott Abrams sitting down with the Apostolic Congress and massaging their theological concerns. Claiming to be "the Christian Voice in the Nation's Capital," the members vociferously oppose the idea of a Palestinian state. They fear an Israeli withdrawal from Gaza might enable just that, and they object on the grounds that all of Old Testament Israel belongs to the Jews. Until Israel is intact and Solomon's temple rebuilt, they believe, Christ won't come back to earth.

[Ian David]

4. Here are a couple things to get you started...

The Foreign Policy of 20 Million Would-Be Immortals
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2751351&mesg_id=2751351


A Study of Israel's Feast Days in Relation to Prophecy
Tribulation Date Setting - When will the End Times Begin?
http://www.mt.net/~watcher/date_set.html

America's Roadmap to The Apocalypse
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2747646

[Synnical]

5. So, did our replies help? n/t

[calimary]

6. Kicking this.

Good resource material here - although "The Jesus Landing Pad" item could use a link. Like this stuff, though. Good to have! Thanks, everybody!

[Synnical]

7. Jesus Landing Pad Link

My Bad, I think. I was at the office.

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0420,perlstein,53582,1.html

But this gives me the opportunity to provide more goodies!

While the language of apocalyptic Christianity is absent from George W. Bush's speeches, he has proven eager to work with apocalyptics—a point of pride for Upton. "We're in constant contact with the White House," he boasts. "I'm briefed at least once a week via telephone briefings. . . . I was there about two weeks ago . . . At that time we met with the president."

Last spring, after President Bush announced his Road Map plan for peace in the Middle East, the Apostolic Congress co-sponsored an effort with the Jewish group Americans for a Safe Israel that placed billboards in 23 cities with a quotation from Genesis ("Unto thy offspring will I give this land") and the message, "Pray that President Bush Honors God's Covenant with Israel. Call the White House with this message." It then provided the White House phone number and the Apostolic Congress's Web address.

In the interview with the Voice, Pastor Upton claimed personal responsibility for directing 50,000 postcards to the White House opposing the Road Map, which aims to create a Palestinian state. "I'm in total disagreement with any form of Palestinian state," Upton said. "Within a two-week period, getting 50,000 postcards saying the exact same thing from places all over the country, that resonated with the White House. That really caused to backpedal on the Road Map."

Edit: OOPS! Jesus Paid insted of Pad! Hmmm.

[Synnical]

8. Asking again

Did the replies help?

[Cobalt-60]

9. Its Idolatry

The worship of the chunk of dirt currently known as Israel is as bad as bending your back in front of the Golden Calf.
The Word of God has nothing to do with the dirt everyone is killing over. And that word is supposed to be what fundies are supposed to be about.
Instead they're allowing some really evil people to manipulate them into committing acts of savagery over a plot of dirt.
No sane person could argue that Jesus would in any way express approval of anyone willing to kill to get or grant possession of this over sized litter box.
Anyone wanting to get into His house better consider who they've been backing and why.